Tax Bill

[twa]

Just now, Weganator said:

You can choose to pay extra, but I go to prison if I can't / don't cover whatever percentage of my efforts  you believe I owe for choosing to spend that time earning.

 

Bit over the top, they usually just seize your **** unless you oppose/subvert them. 

 

 

 

[Weganator]

6 minutes ago, Burgold said:

It's really not.

 

Think of it this way. If I give you 500 bucks you're probably happy about it. If the next year I give you 500 bucks more than the previous year you ought to be even happier. After all, you have a thousand bucks. However, if you have a thousand bucks in your pockets, but I subsequently charge you $25,000 for health care, $9,000 for road repair, and another $100,000 for odds and ends that I'm no longer covering... that thousand bucks will feel pretty pathetic.

 

The GOP bill is suckering people to get excited about accepting pennies while stealing hundreds of dollars in services.

The implication is that the extra 1k is negating those services for me. The only way I'll see a drop of government service is if we go single payer and then my 'medical costs' will be closer to my mortgages.

Edited December 3, 2017 by Weganator

[Burgold]

5 minutes ago, Weganator said:

The implication is that the extra 1k is negating those services for me. The only way I'll see a drop of government service is if we go single payer and then my 'medical costs' will be closer to my mortgages.

Hardly. 

 

We are already seeing diminished services and threats of diminished services.

Health Care

Education

Infrastructure

Environmental Protections like clean water

etc.

 

All of these need to be paid for. Less revenue means less ability to pay. Social services and the safety net will be the first thing to go. Sadly, this is what the GOP wants. They want to gut education. They want to poison our waters. They want to let corporations freely pollute without consequence to their hearts' content. They want people with no access to health care.

[Weganator]

12 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Hardly. 

 

We are already seeing diminished services and threats of diminished services.

Health Care

Education

Infrastructure

Environmental Protections like clean water

etc.

 

All of these need to be paid for. Less revenue means less ability to pay. Social services and the safety net will be the first thing to go. Sadly, this is what the GOP wants. They want to gut education. They want to poison our waters. They want to let corporations freely pollute without consequence to their hearts' content. They want people with no access to health care.

 

Fair enough, but people with negative net tax rates aren't up in arms about the tax changes because of infrastructure. The reason that negative tax rate is even possible is because of the redistribution they are receiving. That can be cut.

 

A bunch of that other stuff has multiple schools of thought as to their necessity and can be hashed out in other fora.

Edited December 3, 2017 by Weganator

[LD0506]

I find this all interesting, but I wonder what exactly is the end game here? Does the donor class genuinely believe that their gated communities protect them enough? That their hired security will take a bullet for them? That their pilots will whisk them out of harms way at the last moment?

 

History teaches, you can listen or shoot spitballs in class, but history teaches again and again that when a populace is stressed too much, when you reach a critical mass of starving, suffering, disaffected people that literally have nothing to lose, they rise up and kill their overlords, gleefully, with wild abandon and great rejoicing. It doesn't matter one bit how many troops or guns or fortifications you have, it is a simple calculus that has only one result.

 

Are they really so delusional that they believe their weapons of mass distraction- IPhones and Oxy and faux-celebs- will keep the hordes in check??

[PleaseBlitz]

29 minutes ago, Weganator said:

 

Fair enough, but people with negative net tax rates aren't up in arms about the tax changes because of infrastructure.

 

That's because they don't pay close enough attention and/or can't connect the cause and effect.  The fact that they don't understand doesn't change the fact that they are getting screwed. It's actually why they are getting screwed. 

Edited December 3, 2017 by PleaseBlitz

[twa]

Just now, LD0506 said:

 

 

Are they really so delusional that they believe their weapons of mass distraction- IPhones and Oxy and faux-celebs- will keep the hordes in check??

 

ya left out obesity , them pudgy fingers can't grip a pitchfork well

[Weganator]

3 minutes ago, twa said:

 

ya left out obesity , them pudgy fingers can't grip a pitchfork well

The amount of french revolution style call to arms I see around here makes me want to start leveraging my 2nd amendment rights... gotta get out of DC first though

Edited December 3, 2017 by Weganator

[twa]

Just now, Weganator said:

The amount of french revolution style call to arms I see around here makes me want to start leveraging my 2nd amendment rights... gotta get out of DC first though

 

I expect a crescendo about election time, but their handlers might lose the leash so it is best to be prepared.

 

 

[LadySkinsFan]

11 hours ago, Hersh said:

This probably belongs elsewhere but since McConnell just passed the tax bill it’s my opinion that McConnell will actually be judged worse in history than Trump. Yup, I said it. (So long as Trump doesn’t start WWIII)

 

 

Not to mention he hijacked Obama's Supreme Court post.

[NoCalMike]

I would venture to say tax bills like this are part of a long term goal to transition the country into an ownership society.  The GOP talks about the middle class a lot, but their actions suggest they want an upperclass and indentured servitude. Being wealthy isn't enough, they want to be a ruling class. A lot of them feel entitled and/or that it should be that way.  Aristocracy perhaps?   They want tax cuts but also any & every service cut.  They want "free" public education cut.  The Betsy Devos types want education going back to being for the privileged. 

 

There are end goals for these kinds of policies, they just usually aren't met because there is enough turnover in the Gov't to interrupt plans from both sides.

[LD0506]

6 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

I would venture to say tax bills like this are part of a long term goal to transition the country into an ownership society.  The GOP talks about the middle class a lot, but their actions suggest they want an upperclass and indentured servitude. Being wealthy isn't enough, they want to be a ruling class. A lot of them feel entitled and/or that it should be that way.  Aristocracy perhaps?   They want tax cuts but also any & every service cut.  They want "free" public education cut.  The Betsy Devos types want education going back to being for the privileged. 

 

There are end goals for these kinds of policies, they just usually aren't met because there is enough turnover in the Gov't to interrupt plans from both sides.

 

I think there is some truth to this, but IMO they will offer survival, readin' n writin' and cipherin' fer yer younguns, mebbe even a doc when you're feelin' poorly, all for the small price of your submission, your acceptance (or re-acceptance) of your rightful "place" in the grand scheme of things. All you serfs and slaves and lessers with delusions of grandeur or longevity need to shuffle back into the shadows, where you belong and where you were before them libruls got you all uppity.

[visionary]

 

 

 

[DogofWar1]

18 minutes ago, visionary said:

 

I'm pretty sure Laffer said it would be, but I was half listening to him because he ALWAYS thinks we're on the right side of his damn curve, despite the fact that the previous time he thought that we had the Bush tax cuts and we all know how that went.

[TheGreatBuzz]

Time to start the Doomsday Prepper thread yet?

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

6 hours ago, Weganator said:

The only way I'll see a drop of government service is if we go single payer and then my 'medical costs' will be closer to my mortgages.

Please explain the thinking behind this statement.

 

If we have public schools, then my "education costs" will be much higher than if I send my kids to a for-profit private institution

If we have public roads, my "Transportation" costs will be much higher than if I take the for profit toll road

If we have public police, my costs will be much higher than if I higher a private investigator

5 hours ago, Weganator said:

The amount of french revolution style call to arms I see around here makes me want to start leveraging my 2nd amendment rights... gotta get out of DC first though

Around Here? Like, on this message board?

[visionary]

 

[Larry]

4 hours ago, visionary said:

 

 

 

[visionary]

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2017 by visionary

[visionary]

 

[Skinz4Life12]

I didn't realize the new tax plan increases the standard deductions so much. if state income tax deduction is eliminated I'm not sure if I will even itemize anymore..

 

also...will we still file our 2017 returns under the current rules?

Edited December 3, 2017 by Skinz4Life12

[LadySkinsFan]

If the House votes to accept the Senate bill, there won't be a final vote. 

[visionary]

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2017 by visionary

[LadySkinsFan]

[The Evil Genius]