visionary Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 (edited) Edited December 2, 2017 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjunkies Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 (edited) Shocker that these thieves wait until 2 in the morning to vote on this garbage. Edited December 2, 2017 by spjunkies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 (edited) Edited December 2, 2017 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 (edited) Edited December 2, 2017 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 7 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said: . 37 minutes ago, visionary said: Was surprised that the Jack Ass didn't manage to screw this up looks like he tried though. Well some good news for a change This should be good for the economy and the US will be more competitive in the international arena. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 (edited) 1 minute ago, nonniey said: . Was surprised that the Jack Ass didn't manage to screw this up looks like he tried though. Well some good news for a change This should be good for the economy and the US will be more competitive in the international arena. What a joke. We’re majorly ****ed now and people are pissed. Edited December 2, 2017 by visionary 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 Disgusting. McConnell is an idiot if he thinks he can run against Dems for voting no. The only people happy about this are wealthy folks and big corporations. Republicqns are who you thought they were. They only answer to their big money donors. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 Guys, it’s nearly time for ALL of us to get a raise!!! Trickle down ****es! Woooo! Trump is gonna save us and give us all raises! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 Man, the pork that I’m reading is in this bill is absurd. Kills the individual mandate, makes drilling in Alaska a must. Jeez. They fought long and hard to kill ACA. Now, it’s possible that they just do it as a rider on this tax bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Vet Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 I know this thing has to still be finalized and there will be compromises between the house and senate version....but once that is done - will someone come out w/ an online calculator that actually shows what it does to real people's tax bill? I am so sick of the right and the left nonsense. The right says it does Apple. The left says it does Orange. I'm sure it probably does Banana....but I'd like to punch in my numbers and actually see. If the tax law will be so much more simplistic - I'd think it would be easy to devise such a tool. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 (edited) The deficits in this bill are there to ensure that this tax cut is eventually balanced on the backs of programs that help Americans. The GOP will complain about the debt and the deficit once Democrats are in control again. They have done this EVERY SINGLE TIME THEY PASS TAXCUTS THAT ARENT PAID FOR. They do this intentionally to ensure that on their time, we run deficits for the purpose of exploding the wealth of the rich. And when programs for the middle class and poor are proposed under Democrats, they can point to the debt and the budget deficits and have them killed. Its the longest running scam in America. It's absolutely gross but oh well. Millions of dopes in rural and middle America continue voting for it while their communities keep deteriorating and falling behind. Maybe this time they'll wake up and realize that they have been duped by the very elite that they claim to hate. Edited December 2, 2017 by No Excuses 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 When it comes to the clubs, there's an old warning that "Nothing good happens after 1 am." There's also an old warning about the types of bills Congress tries to pass late Friday night when the news viewership is at its lowest. If you wonder why the GOP felt the need to hold this vote around 1:30 am Friday night/Saturday morning, the reason is pretty damn clear. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 5 hours ago, nonniey said: . Was surprised that the Jack Ass didn't manage to screw this up looks like he tried though. Well some good news for a change This should be good for the economy and the US will be more competitive in the international arena. How will this bill do that? Good for the economy is arguable. I can see the merit in cutting government revenue to put it back into the market to spur growth and spending. But if that was the goal, massive cuts to corporate rates and selective targeted wealthy tax payers shouldn't have been the central give back (how does repealing or raising the estate tax ceiling spur economic growth?). US effective corp tax rate is 18%, on the higher end of OECD countries but still in line. So now we're gonna chop the statutory rate in half (which would make it below OECD average), which would lower the effective rate to what? 9% assuming the corporate deductions remain largely unchanged (I haven't heard about push to get rid of corporate deductions, so I assume that wasn't really addressed)? Are we really expecting corporations to use that 9% savings on new jobs and capital investments or are these going to increase shareholder payouts? How does this bill make US more competitive in international arena? Are we expecting companies to relocate to US due to the tax rates? 9% savings in tax won't be the deal breaker, it's the wages. I suppose, we could repeal minimum wage and employee protection. Foreign companies establish presence in US due to market importance and free trade agreements (whoops, guess we don't like those anymore either). US and any developed economy will never make hard dollar sense given the wages (Think about it. Chinese wages are so low that it makes economic sense to ship chickens to China, process it, and then bring it back. How is US supposed to compete with that? Do we even want to compete with that?). Not sure what other competition is expected to benefit. The onetime give away on foreign subsidiary revenue? US companies have to pay taxes on that at some point anyway. You can have a tax policy where you say money is better served in the hands of the people than government. I have a problem with which people are getting the money. You can also say certain things are worth raising the deficit for (despite all GOP stances to the contrary during Obama's attempts at tax reform). But giving back money to segment of the population that needs the least amount of help at the expense of those that needs it most, is ineffective as it is wrong. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 5 hours ago, nonniey said: . Was surprised that the Jack Ass didn't manage to screw this up looks like he tried though. Well some good news for a change This should be good for the economy and the US will be more competitive in the international arena. The stock market is at record levels This guy: “This should be good for the economy” “Some good news for a change” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weganator Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 16 minutes ago, Grumpy Vet said: I know this thing has to still be finalized and there will be compromises between the house and senate version....but once that is done - will someone come out w/ an online calculator that actually shows what it does to real people's tax bill? I am so sick of the right and the left nonsense. The right says it does Apple. The left says it does Orange. I'm sure it probably does Banana....but I'd like to punch in my numbers and actually see. If the tax law will be so much more simplistic - I'd think it would be easy to devise such a tool. 70% of people claim the standard deduction. After they double it, that number should be higher, some say around 85%. If you took the standard deduction both times, you are better off. Depends on a bunch of factors, buy if you can't find 20k worth of deductions to taxes you are better off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 11 minutes ago, Springfield said: Man, the pork that I’m reading is in this bill is absurd. Kills the individual mandate, makes drilling in Alaska a must. Jeez. They fought long and hard to kill ACA. Now, it’s possible that they just do it as a rider on this tax bill. Well, that does seem to be one characteristic of the New GOP. If a bill that's bad for the country doesn't have enough votes to pass, try adding something else that's bad for the country. Kinda goes along with one of the other things I notice about this bill. The old GOP would have just passed a tax cut, plain and simple. They wouldn't have tried to reduce the impact of the deficit. They would have just engaged the alternate reality drive, and announced that tax cuts don't raise the deficit. (And maybe thrown in some token tax cut for everybody else, too. And pretended that "we really did it for you little people".) But this new, improved, version decided that this tax cut had to be paid for. So, they cut taxes on the rich, and raised them on other folks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Vet Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, Weganator said: 70% of people claim the standard deduction. After they double it, that number should be higher, some say around 85%. If you took the standard deduction both times, you are better off. Depends on a bunch of factors, buy if you can't find 20k worth of deductions to taxes you are better off. Hypothetically then, if I had more than 20K - then I'd have to see how everything shook out? My big three are mortgage interest, real estate taxes and SALT in that order. Thanks for the reply Weganator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 (edited) Edited December 2, 2017 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 Ted Cruz got his amendment in......... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 Looking forward to 2021 when the Dems introduce and pass the following bills, simultaneously, with two hours of review/debate: -minimum wage to $15/hr -single payer healthcare -Comprehensive immigrantion reform -free college tuition -tax overhaul, with marginal rates for multi-millionaires to 60% and 100% estate tax beyond $30m This might not be ambitious enough, could probably add a few to the list. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 9 hours ago, NoCalMike said: Question for GOP voters. Do you as a collective still actually believe that trickle down economics works for the benefit of the middle class or is more of the fact that you think taxes should be lowered because you view them as a theft of your money and the more gov't that needs to be cut to make the tax cuts work, then so be it? How many actual GOP voters do we have here anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weganator Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 17 minutes ago, Grumpy Vet said: Hypothetically then, if I had more than 20K - then I'd have to see how everything shook out? My big three are mortgage interest, real estate taxes and SALT in that order. Thanks for the reply Weganator. Exactly. Think of it like this: 1) Identify your taxable income (approximate) 2) Compare Brackets below your tax bracket below to determine whether or not you net out a head or not. I'd have to check but I'm pretty sure almost everyone does.. I gotta do some digging on that 3) Compare the rates between your current tax bracket and your proposed new bracket. Since since any changes in deductions are going to cause more / less income to be gained (& taxed) at this rate 4) Combine all of your lost itemized deductions compared vs MAX(new standard deduction, new itemized #).. A loss of deductions will cause you to gain income, meaning that you would be taxed at your current rate vs that money, otherwise, you would get more money back. 2 & 4 will give you a better idea if you net out ahead or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 I’m a registered Republican, but may not be voting that way again for a while. I’m not opposed to tax cuts, but that thing last night was an abomination. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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