Common Kirk....I just don't know....

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

If we sign Cousins to a LTD because "there is no Plan B", we're ****ed.

 

I'm convinced that's why we franchised him this second time. It's the only reason you refuse to pay someone long-term but hand him $24M guaranteed for one season. 

[purbeast]

1 hour ago, TheCoach22 said:

He has to play consistent football this season.

Yet after 1 game in a 16 game season, people are ready to give him the boot.

 

Sounds fair.

[Garcon More Wine]

1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

If we sign Cousins to a LTD because "there is no Plan B", we're ****ed.

 

im still waiting to hear the plan B.  if the plan B is just "draft a QB" that is not enough for me.  

 

and i for one do not trust our bozo front office comprised of skins vets and sons of coaches dan grew up watching to pick this stud QB we're all waiting for.

 

kirk is good enough to win with and compete year in and year out with, so long as we have our run game fixed and the defense fixed (two things most QBs need in order to function).

[Audible_Red40]

36 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

What QB doesn't need an OL, or a good coach? 

 

There is life after Kirk no matter what anyone thinks.

 

The grass ain't always greener sure, but it cannot get much more burnt than it is now - no playoff wins, big stage chokes, late game INTs, losing at home, him not even counter offering, our OL failings exposing his struggles under pressure.... life ain't all that great WITH him right now.

My point is there's probably no life if you wish to keep taking flyers in the 6th round.  You better invest, which of course the FO will.  Expect a high pick or trade for a higher pick than our own.  There will be no 6th round QB starter on this team. for years to come.

[Garcon More Wine]

2 minutes ago, Audible_Red40 said:

My point is there's probably no life if you wish to keep taking flyers in the 6th round.  You better invest, which of course the FO will.  Expect a high pick or trade for a higher pick than our own.  There will be no 6th round QB starter on this team. for years to come.

 

 

i agree here (sadly) because i know how bad the griffin trade hurt us in the long run.  im fully expecting us to probably pull this again because we arent gonna be bad enough to get a high pick needed to take that stud QB.

[OVCChairman]

8 minutes ago, purbeast said:

Yet after 1 game in a 16 game season, people are ready to give him the boot.

 

Sounds fair.

Not ready to give him the boot... if he was in year 2 of a 5 year contract... the conversation would be different.  He's not.  He's getting paid $24 million THIS year and the chances of him signing a deal for less than $24 million a year is very slim.  For that price, with the production we've seen through the end of last season, paired with the beginning of this season, fans (myself included) feel it's better for the team to let him walk on his own, and not pay him the money that the market is dictating.  Not giving him the boot, just letting him walk away.  Nobody is getting fired, benched, or removed.. the contract is coming to an end. 

[NoCalMike]

I think if the "Cousins era" could have been done all over again, it might have worked out.  Let's say we never drafted Robert, spend the picks elsewhere, still drafted Cousins where he was taken.  Cousins was the starter from Day 1.  By 2017 the team is a contender.

 

As it stands now, the guy is 29, with people still arguing that he hasn't had enough starts to really know where his ceiling is etc etc etc.......What I am saying is that unless the guy flips a magic switch, the time is rapidly running out on how much longer you can wait around because he is right at that line where he is no longer a QB you can "build around" considering where the overall team is in the building stage.

 

 

[Garcon More Wine]

2 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

I think if the "Cousins era" could have been done all over again, it might have worked out.  Let's say we never drafted Robert, spend the picks elsewhere, still drafted Cousins where he was taken.  Cousins was the starter from Day 1.  By 2017 the team is a contender.

 

As it stands now, the guy is 29, with people still arguing that he hasn't had enough starts to really know where his ceiling is etc etc etc.......What I am saying is that unless the guy flips a magic switch, the time is rapidly running out on how much longer you can wait around because he is right at that line where he is no longer a QB you can "build around" considering where the overall team is in the building stage.

 

 

 

if he doesnt get it done this year ill be ready to move on, unless he throws for like 5000 yards and 30 TDs and its our defense thats choking.  that will be 3 years and it will probably be time to see something else.

 

again, im just dreading the rebuild days.  our roster probably isnt strong enough to make an impact with a rookie QB, which means we'll be back to bad football.  not sure gruden survives either, and then we're talking new coaches, new systems, etc.  id like to avoid that if we can.

[TheCoach22]

24 minutes ago, purbeast said:

Yet after 1 game in a 16 game season, people are ready to give him the boot.

 

Sounds fair.

Again... it isn't about one game. It is last December. It is tendency to fade into the background in big games. This is a pattern. Even plus-average teams cannot drop winnable division games at home because a guy they're paying 25 million dollars throws to the wrong uniform with the game on the line. It is how last year ended, it is how this year begun. Also worth note, the offense mustered one scoring drive in both these games. That is embarrassing.

[Cooleyfan1993]

"Common" kirk? I'm guessing he meant "come on kirk"

 

also, I agree with what everyone is saying. He's gotta start playing better. I know he can. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

13 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

I think if the "Cousins era" could have been done all over again, it might have worked out.  Let's say we never drafted Robert, spend the picks elsewhere, still drafted Cousins where he was taken.  Cousins was the starter from Day 1.  By 2017 the team is a contender.

 

As it stands now, the guy is 29, with people still arguing that he hasn't had enough starts to really know where his ceiling is etc etc etc.......What I am saying is that unless the guy flips a magic switch, the time is rapidly running out on how much longer you can wait around because he is right at that line where he is no longer a QB you can "build around" considering where the overall team is in the building stage.

 

 

 

It's hard to argue with a single word of this.  I'll just throw in that we have no idea what type of QB Cousins can be with a good running game and defense.  We've never seen him in that situation so the jury is still a bit out on him in that regard. 

 

Had he been drafted by another team, say Cincy, we could have a completely different evaluation of him today.

[Llevron]

8 minutes ago, Garcon More Wine said:

id like to avoid that if we can.

 

Its coming regardless bruh. Part of the problem with Kirk is we cant put a good team around him due to the FO. Honestly we are ****ed regardless. We are just arguing on how we like to take it. 

[TheCoach22]

1 minute ago, Llevron said:

 

Its coming regardless bruh. Part of the problem with Kirk is we cant put a good team around him due to the FO. Honestly we are ****ed regardless. We are just arguing on how we like to take it. 

I just don't agree. Moses had a bad game, but arguably we have two talented tackles on the OL. Pryor needs some time in the offense, but he's got talent. Reed is uncoverable when on the field. There are weapons. The defense is improved and has some players. We can hate on the FO as fans, and some of the key people appear to be clowns, but we've more talent on this roster than when Gibbs or Shanny left... we have won more than we've lost the last two years. We have way more of the roster 25 or under, and less 30+... if the WaPo would shut their traps and look at it with less Danny hate, they'd see there are some good things here. Right now QB play is not one of them. I still maintain that Cousins was re-exposed in that showing against Carolina last year. Dude has been ass since... he's been Grossman/Beck bad, but for a great half of football in Chicago.

[RandyHolt]

Does anyone think there will even be a significant number of true greats in the next 10 years?  I don't. I predict 0.  I think its a pipe dream that a team is going to land an elite QB AND him have the durability to withstand all the hits he will endure. The game is so hardcore now, more that ever, guys on D are monsters.  Playbooks and coaches that will be turned over in his early years. Once he is properly compensated, the team around him is not as good WRT cap compliance.

 

Look at Luck, and RG3. Luck has been mired in mediocrity and injured for a few years. 3 is always injured and out of the league IINM. Yet those are the 2 QBs many would have said were the next greats when they came out.  That's what we can expect when drafting our next great QB.

 

I think you give a good QB ~5 years to show signs of progression to greatness. The key seems to be recognizing very good QB play, and paying for that long before it comes time to let the market decide he will be the highest paid player. For then it's too late. If you wait until the last minute you push all in, trade him, or start over on the endless search for a player that I think no longer exists.

[Llevron]

5 minutes ago, TheCoach22 said:

I just don't agree. Moses had a bad game, but arguably we have two talented tackles on the OL. Pryor needs some time in the offense, but he's got talent. Reed is uncoverable when on the field. There are weapons. The defense is improved and has some players. We can hate on the FO as fans, and some of the key people appear to be clowns, but we've more talent on this roster than when Gibbs or Shanny left... we have won more than we've lost the last two years. We have way more of the roster 25 or under, and less 30+... if the WaPo would shut their traps and look at it with less Danny hate, they'd see there are some good things here. Right now QB play is not one of them. I still maintain that Cousins was re-exposed in that showing against Carolina last year. Dude has been ass since... he's been Grossman/Beck bad, but for a great half of football in Chicago.

 

Im in the 'Scott got us here' camp so that may explain why we disagree here. I dont think that Williams or Bruce will do well at all. And I dont think anyone can give me a reason this is not just the same old from Dan. I do think they will try hard, but I also believe almost without a doubt they will fail. And once they do we will blame Williams or Kirk or Gruden and try it again the same way and fail again. The same way. 

 

I see all the talent I just dont think its enough yet. Our line, for example, is not just the two ends. We knew this last year and we didnt address it. That is a pattern i expect to repeat itself with this FO.  I know thats not a sunshiny view and im sorry to be a negative Nancy but thats what I see happening. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

5 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Im in the 'Scott got us here' camp so that may explain why we disagree here. I dont think that Williams or Bruce will do well at all. And I dont think anyone can give me a reason this is not just the same old from Dan. I do think they will try hard, but I also believe almost without a doubt they will fail. And once they do we will blame Williams or Kirk or Gruden and try it again the same way and fail again. The same way. 

 

I see all the talent I just dont think its enough yet. Our line, for example, is not just the two ends. We knew this last year and we didnt address it. That is a pattern i expect to repeat itself with this FO.  I know thats not a sunshiny view and im sorry to be a negative Nancy but thats what I see happening. 

 

While I agree with you on your concerns about our current FO I've soured on SM considerably.  I just don't see how we can credit him for back to back winning seasons when all but a few of the players were already on the roster before he arrived.  Was Crowder, Scherff and to a lesser extent the few he picked up that played pretty well (Dunbar for example) enough to turn a 5 win team into divisions champs?  Not in my book. 

[TheCoach22]

2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Im in the 'Scott got us here' camp so that may explain why we disagree here. I dont think that Williams or Bruce will do well at all. And I dont think anyone can give me a reason this is not just the same old from Dan. I do think they will try hard, but I also believe almost without a doubt they will fail. And once they do we will blame Williams or Kirk or Gruden and try it again the same way and fail again. The same way. 

 

I see all the talent I just dont think its enough yet. Our line, for example, is not just the two ends. We knew this last year and we didnt address it. That is a pattern i expect to repeat itself with this FO.  I know thats not a sunshiny view and im sorry to be a negative Nancy but thats what I see happening. 

Well, if GMSM got us here, then you have to think that Brandon Schreff is a solid guard for years to come and that Doctson will get right and be an asset too. You'd have to believe that Cravens decides to play and does well at safety, and that Fuller builds on a great first game and has a strong sophomore campaign. You'd also have to believe that Preston Smith will play with more consistency and be a weapon on the edge. Since we know the Matt Jones era is over, at least 1/2 these things have to happen for GMSM to have a positive legacy here. One cannot whiff in rounds 1-3 for two years in a row and have a positive impact.

[Llevron]

Just now, TheCoach22 said:

Well, if GMSM got us here, then you have to think that Brandon Schreff is a solid guard for years to come and that Doctson will get right and be an asset too. You'd have to believe that Cravens decides to play and does well at safety, and that Fuller builds on a great first game and has a strong sophomore campaign. You'd also have to believe that Preston Smith will play with more consistency and be a weapon on the edge. Since we know the Matt Jones era is over, at least 1/2 these things have to happen for GMSM to have a positive legacy here. One cannot whiff in rounds 1-3 for two years in a row and have a positive impact.

 

I dont have to believe any of that lol. I do believe in Schreff. No doubt there. Losing hope in Doctson. I have no faith in Cravens ever playing again and I dont blame him. Like Fuller alot. Not sold on Preston Smtih but he has the physical gifts. 

 

Still, I believe Scott got us here. But he wasnt perfect. And im not even saying he was good. Im saying the rest of the FO is trying their best but failing miserably and if it wasnt for Scott we wouldnt be here now. 

[lavar1156]

Drew Brees 2018

[Llevron]

9 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Was Crowder, Scherff and to a lesser extent the few he picked up that played pretty well (Dunbar for example) enough to turn a 5 win team into divisions champs?  Not in my book. 

 

Not saying he %100 was the reason but did you or did you not take this team more seriously when they got a real GM? Do you have less faith in him than you do Bruce or Williams? I would be shocked if you trusted them more than you do him. 

 

And that 5 win turnaround can obviously be attributed to more than the GM. Im talking purely about the current talent on the roster when I say Scott got us here. But yes I acknowledge that others had a hand in it. 

[TheCoach22]

1 minute ago, lavar1156 said:

Drew Brees 2018

At what price point though? I could get behind this if Kirk doesn't come around, or if he doesn't budge from his 25 mill+ asking price because it would give the FO two years to figure out what they really have in everyone else. I think they'd have to take a QB day 1 or 2 to develop because Brees is 38, but there are worse plans.

[skinny21]

@Llevron@TheCoach22

 

gotta agree with coach here.  The preseason and 1st game weren't great, but we have a lot of solid players, some studs, a lot of young guys with potential, etc.  

 

The one year deals were much better than our heyday of overspending, we seem to be focused on the draft, etc.  

 

There have been some questionable moves, but you can make arguments for all of them - losing Baker, Garçon and Jackson, and not signing Kirk long term.  

 

Got some bad luck with Cravens, Galette, Taylor, Murphy, Paul, Hall, Doctson, etc.

 

On the flip side, I can understand the concerns with the FO.  Allen and Williams' pedigree/ability, firing Scot, the defensive hires, some of the personnel decisions... it's hard to feel warm and fuzzy about the FO.

 

It still feels like this is a better overall team than we've had in a long time... we just need the offense to settle down, the D to continue to get comfortable and the youngsters to continue to progress.  

 

The thing is, if Kirk had signed long term and had a decent game, IMO the feeling about the team would be radically different.  This season would be promising, the future would be bright, we'd be generally fine with the FO and coaching, etc.  That's not how it played out, so I get the cynicism, but I'm not (yet) ready to blow up the whole thing. 

[NoCalMike]

19 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Does anyone think there will even be a significant number of true greats in the next 10 years?  I don't. I predict 0.  I think its a pipe dream that a team is going to land an elite QB AND him have the durability to withstand all the hits he will endure. The game is so hardcore now, more that ever, guys on D are monsters.  Playbooks and coaches that will be turned over in his early years. Once he is properly compensated, the team around him is not as good WRT cap compliance.

 

 

It's extremely hard to say. I go back to the two paths to a championship in the modern NFL.  It is either having a Top 5 QB that can elevate the talent around them, or building a juggernaut of a roster that can mask any deficiencies the QB does have ala stout running game, uber-dominant defense.   This franchise very well could have gone that 2nd route and been a winner with Cousins, IMO, if that had been the plan from the get-go in 2012.  That is not how things went and as it stands now, I question whether there is enough time left with how old Cousins is, how much he is going to be expected to be paid combined with how much more this roster needs to be upgraded.   If Cousins was willing to be paid more like an Alex Smith (even a bit more probably), I'd be perfectly fine keeping him around. but he is not the caliber of QB that you can pay so much that it cripples the ability to upgrade the team, and this roster still needs a lot of upgrades.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Signing Drew Brees would wreak of the old Redskins.  First off, it would require him wanting to sign here and spend his last days throwing it to Ryan Grant.  There are better options and he will take one of them.  So umm yeah, no.

[OVCChairman]

13 minutes ago, TheCoach22 said:

At what price point though? I could get behind this if Kirk doesn't come around, or if he doesn't budge from his 25 mill+ asking price because it would give the FO two years to figure out what they really have in everyone else. I think they'd have to take a QB day 1 or 2 to develop because Brees is 38, but there are worse plans.

2 years, $37 mil with more than half of that guaranteed.. do that in a heartbeat.  Draft a long term plan at QB and lets do this... front load the deal and guarantee $20 of that for 2018.  Minimal cap hit in year 2.