Per Schefter: Su'a Cravens Considering Retirement

[Renegade7]

So he's gone now, right?  Can we close this thread now?

 

[Commander -JB-]

22 minutes ago, megared said:

 

I'm not comparing their talent or ability to impact games. 

 

My point in bringing up Taylor was that he was given the latitude to grow up, and eventually did.

 

Let’s be real.  Talent obviously trumps most everything else.  Do you think that if Odell Beckham Jr. wasn’t probably the most gifted WR in the NFL he would still be employed?  Most likely, the Giants would have cut ties a while back.  Cravens is nowhere near that caliber of player and still he was held onto despite him giving up on his teammates by making it all about himself and the attention he brought to himself by threatening to retire.  If he were an undrafted player, he wouldn’t have had to do all that.  They would have cut him with the quickness.  Let’s not sit here and act like the Redskins did him dirty by dealing him.  They got something in return for a guy they no longer wanted in the building.  Was it a fair deal?  I don’t know, what in life is?

[megared]

16 minutes ago, -JB- said:

Let’s be real.  Talent obviously trumps most everything else.  Do you think that if Odell Beckham Jr. wasn’t probably the most gifted WR in the NFL he would still be employed?  Most likely, the Giants would have cut ties a while back.  Cravens is nowhere near that caliber of player and still he was held onto despite him giving up on his teammates by making it all about himself and the attention he brought to himself by threatening to retire.  If he were an undrafted player, he wouldn’t have had to do all that.  They would have cut him with the quickness.  Let’s not sit here and act like the Redskins did him dirty by dealing him.  They got something in return for a guy they no longer wanted in the building.  Was it a fair deal?  I don’t know, what in life is?

 

I'm not saying they did him dirty either.  I don't care about or for him as a person, only as a piece of the team I follow.  If he was on his second contract and the potential for value wasn't as high, I'd be all for cutting him or trading him.  But his value was that we had three more years with minimal cap implications.  And we gave that up, because of hurt feelings?  Certainly that far back in the draft, they aren't doing it to grab their guy.

 

I'm saying that we lost on a transaction for no good reason.  Cravens' potential is greater than the gain of swapping some day 3 picks.  I don't think the move was smart or necessary.  The guy wasn't going to single handedly tank our season by him being on the roster come week 1.  Best case he could've maybe replaced Swearinger after next season.  Worst case, we cut him and get nothing.  A team attempting to build something shouldn't be throwing value out the window the way we have been this offseason.     

[cakmoney61]

The last 2 hours of text, starting with megared's atomic bomb of a post, has been some of the best posts I have read since joining ES.  Everyone's arguments are compelling and very convincing.  

 

In spite of the hot intensity of the posts, everyone showed restraint and respect.  Much respect to all involved.  It was fire!!!!!

 

 

[Commander -JB-]

3 minutes ago, megared said:

 

I'm not saying they did him dirty either.  I don't care about or for him as a person, only as a piece of the team I follow.  If he was on his second contract and the potential for value wasn't as high, I'd be all for cutting him or trading him.  But his value was that we had three more years with minimal cap implications.  And we gave that up, because of hurt feelings?  Certainly that far back in the draft, they aren't doing it to grab their guy.

 

I'm saying that we lost on a transaction for no good reason.  Cravens' potential is greater than the gain of swapping some day 3 picks.  I don't think the move was smart or necessary.  The guy wasn't going to single handedly tank our season by him being on the roster come week 1.  Best case he could've maybe replaced Swearinger after next season.  Worst case, we cut him and get nothing.  A team attempting to build something shouldn't be throwing value out the window the way we have been this offseason.     

 

We can agree to disagree that they traded him for “no good reason.”  Montae Nicholson honestly showed me more last season than Cravens did during his rookie season.  It is what it is.  Continue to develop guys that you draft so you don’t feel like your tied down by any one player who isn’t on board with the program.  Are you in or are you out?

[Bang]

To me it is a clear bad reason. 

for as much as Su'a is to blame for his own behavior, it is a failure on the Redskins that he's OUR problem in the first place.
For everything we as fans are told, these guys are put through their paces at the combine and the entire spring leading up to the draft.. they are scrutinized psychologically as much as physically. No stone is supposedly left unturned especially on guys who are drafted in the high rounds. 

And somehow, this really glaring character problem completely slid by even though there were other incidents of him disappearing from college, if i recall right.

 

Maybe they figured high risk could mean high rewards, and it didn't work. Who knows why they took him. Roll some heads.  

 

Nicholson makes it MUCH easier to accept. And much easier to give Mr Pie in the Sky the Boot in the Butt.

 

~Bang

[megared]

30 minutes ago, -JB- said:

 

We can agree to disagree that they traded him for “no good reason.”  Montae Nicholson honestly showed me more last season than Cravens did during his rookie season.  It is what it is.  Continue to develop guys that you draft so you don’t feel like your tied down by any one player who isn’t on board with the program.  Are you in or are you out?

 

Sometimes guys need coaxing...what happens if Gibbs doesn't show up to Riggins' home in '82 to convince him to play?  Does Riggins get remembered as a quitter?  

 

Some guys are low maintenance, others notsomuch.  I'm not saying Cravens has no culpability in the situation.  What I'm saying is that mature, forward thinking parties should've realized that working through bumps in the road could lead to a better path than severing ties (for both parties, but mostly for the team).  Cravens made some plays his rookie season, in a limited role.  I would've been happier seeing him fail here and knowing the FO did what they could, and it just didn't work.  What message does it send when we're shipping guys out, to a destination they're happy about?  Isn't that rewarding this sort of behavior?  He's going to get paid the same to presumably be in a happier situation for him.  

 

When we look at it, we're going to say, 'we traded such and such', 'we don't retain our own'.  Each player has his own story, but it all adds up to why we're mired in mediocrity.  

[Malapropismic Depository]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

So he's gone now, right?  Can we close this thread now?

 

 

 

No....he's still considering retirement.....the Broncos just don't know it yet.

[Renegade7]

4 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

No....he's still considering retirement.....the Broncos just don't know it yet.

Let him consider retirement in the ATN then.

[TK]

23 hours ago, Mr.Will said:

Wow..I just got kicked off the bronco’s forum over the Cravens trade-lmao!!..they were all going crazy saying how they screwed us over today’s trade and how they got us for DB(CB)!!..I just put out a buyers beware bout Cravens and their sensitive thread police booted me-hahaha!!..seems like players that throw tantrum at the teams that drafted till they get their way is the players they love over there!!..thx for the draft picks for a scrub fellas..HTTR!!!!!!

Did you tell them that they're going to play him at Safety, a position he's never taken a single snap at in the NFL, after taking ZERO snaps last season, quitting his college team & again quitting his Pro team last year.   Good luck with that.

[Birdlives]

48 minutes ago, Bang said:

To me it is a clear bad reason. 

for as much as Su'a is to blame for his own behavior, it is a failure on the Redskins that he's OUR problem in the first place.
For everything we as fans are told, these guys are put through their paces at the combine and the entire spring leading up to the draft.. they are scrutinized psychologically as much as physically. No stone is supposedly left unturned especially on guys who are drafted in the high rounds. 

And somehow, this really glaring character problem completely slid by even though there were other incidents of him disappearing from college, if i recall right.

 

Maybe they figured high risk could mean high rewards, and it didn't work. Who knows why they took him. Roll some heads.  

 

Nicholson makes it MUCH easier to accept. And much easier to give Mr Pie in the Sky the Boot in the Butt.

 

~Bang

 

Doesnt matter. He’s a football player. He and Mike Jones will be opening up an Applebee’s together later this year.

[Malapropismic Depository]

On 3/28/2018 at 10:08 PM, Mr.Will said:

Wow..I just got kicked off the bronco’s forum over the Cravens trade-lmao!!..they were all going crazy saying how they screwed us over today’s trade and how they got us for DB(CB)!!..I just put out a buyers beware bout Cravens and their sensitive thread police booted me-hahaha!!..seems like players that throw tantrum at the teams that drafted till they get their way is the players they love over there!!..thx for the draft picks for a scrub fellas..HTTR!!!!!!

 

43 minutes ago, TK said:

Did you tell them that they're going to play him at Safety, a position he's never taken a single snap at in the NFL, after taking ZERO snaps last season, quitting his college team & again quitting his Pro team last year.   Good luck with that.

 

I saw what he posted there.

Something about Doug Williams getting the better of Elway once already, and probably once more.

He was banned for that, while another Bronco fan basically said the same thing in reverse - that they won the Champ Bailey trade, so they'll probably win this one too.

[Mr.Will]

39 minutes ago, TK said:

Did you tell them that they're going to play him at Safety, a position he's never taken a single snap at in the NFL, after taking ZERO snaps last season, quitting his college team & again quitting his Pro team last year.   Good luck with that.

Well..yeah I did tell them that,and how that thinking they got over on this deal is Really gonna piss em off in bout a season and a half and realize that they’re the ones who got screwed in this deal..basically we would’ve given em Su’a AND our 5th rounder just to take em off our hands but we’ll gladly take theirs!!..and hope they like Disney music and got decent wi-fi signal up in those mountains cause their NEW STAR loves social media..after I pointed out that he’s the perfect fit since they like players who threaten to quit or retire if they don’t get their way from the team that drafted em(or at least Elway didn’t think that remark was too funny from what I could tell?!!)..either way,three comments in and I was banned literally!!..and I had only been logged in on it for bout 10 mins..guess truth hurts!!

[SWFLSkins]

4 hours ago, megared said:

 

The guy wasn't poisonous...just immature.  This isn't a Haynesworth situation.  

 

I swear, ya'll would've had #21 traded for a 7th round swap if he was on this team today....and call it 'winning'

[Mr.Will]

19 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

 

I saw what he posted there.

Something about Doug Williams getting the better of Elway once already, and probably once more.

He was banned for that, while another Bronco fan basically said the same thing in reverse - that they won the Champ Bailey trade, so they'll probably win this one too.

So you saw that too??..don’t get me wrong,I was trolling quite a bit an having a lil fun over it but even after I toned it down in other posts,they scrubbed em off after bout 30 seconds on the board-and then proceed to allow their guys to basically say the exact same stuff to me..I’m not sensitive at all over it,I get it totally as to some of my wording but even after I really try to answer a guys comment respectfully,they boot me totally off-no cursing,no name calling..i simply laughed it off completely..besides,we know the inside scoop off that deal..they’ll find out soon enough I recon’!!

[SWFLSkins]

 

[Hail4Life]

2 hours ago, megared said:

 

Sometimes guys need coaxing...what happens if Gibbs doesn't show up to Riggins' home in '82 to convince him to play?  Does Riggins get remembered as a quitter?  

 

Some guys are low maintenance, others notsomuch.  I'm not saying Cravens has no culpability in the situation.  What I'm saying is that mature, forward thinking parties should've realized that working through bumps in the road could lead to a better path than severing ties (for both parties, but mostly for the team).  Cravens made some plays his rookie season, in a limited role.  I would've been happier seeing him fail here and knowing the FO did what they could, and it just didn't work.  What message does it send when we're shipping guys out, to a destination they're happy about?  Isn't that rewarding this sort of behavior?  He's going to get paid the same to presumably be in a happier situation for him.  

 

When we look at it, we're going to say, 'we traded such and such', 'we don't retain our own'.  Each player has his own story, but it all adds up to why we're mired in mediocrity.  

Id be happier seeing him fail in denver therefore knowing it was a good call. We dont know how the players and coaches felt about him coming back. It sends a message...git with the program or git the **** out. We got hungry, tougher young guys behind him.

[megared]

1 hour ago, Hail4Life said:

Id be happier seeing him fail in denver therefore knowing it was a good call. We dont know how the players and coaches felt about him coming back. It sends a message...git with the program or git the **** out. We got hungry, tougher young guys behind him.

 

I'm through with carrying spite to justify this FO's moves.  I still haven't gotten a good reason why we had to part ways with Cravens.  And I still have the feeling that none of the other guys on the team were going to put their jobs on the line to protest against Sua-damn-Cravens.  What was the worst that could happen, he was going to run a rogue coverage in practice?  

 

It didn't make the team better and it didn't enable some mythical authoritarian approach of the FO making guys buy in.  To me it says, "act up, and we'll ship you to the team of your choosing, in short order".  What about the guy that did everything right, matured into a better player, and still got shipped out?  

[Wildbunny]

7 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

Can we close this thread now?

I second that.

[SWFLSkins]

11 hours ago, Bang said:

To me it is a clear bad reason. 

for as much as Su'a is to blame for his own behavior, it is a failure on the Redskins that he's OUR problem in the first place.
For everything we as fans are told, these guys are put through their paces at the combine and the entire spring leading up to the draft.. they are scrutinized psychologically as much as physically. No stone is supposedly left unturned especially on guys who are drafted in the high rounds. 

And somehow, this really glaring character problem completely slid by even though there were other incidents of him disappearing from college, if i recall right.

 

Maybe they figured high risk could mean high rewards, and it didn't work. Who knows why they took him. Roll some heads.  

 

Nicholson makes it MUCH easier to accept. And much easier to give Mr Pie in the Sky the Boot in the Butt.

 

~Bang

 

I couldn't agree more. 

 

The HOW this happened is as troubling as the fact that it happened. This falls on Bruce, when you consider his involvement as the President and his hiring of the GM. The cumulative decision making and production as a result add up to epic fail on the personnel department. I would think Snyder would want a detailed report as to why all these picks have turned out like this, too many 2nd and 3rd round misses. I really thought Scot was an excellent evaluater, that's what he was sold as....and that's why they hired him....now did He alone miss the personal issues with this pick? I mean you can put this on one guy, this is a team. Were there dissenting voices in the room? Was Bruce aware of them? If nobody was aware of the character issues, then why not, AND Why not Bruce? 

[Bang]

8 hours ago, megared said:

 

I'm through with carrying spite to justify this FO's moves.  I still haven't gotten a good reason why we had to part ways with Cravens.  And I still have the feeling that none of the other guys on the team were going to put their jobs on the line to protest against Sua-damn-Cravens.  What was the worst that could happen, he was going to run a rogue coverage in practice?  

 

It didn't make the team better and it didn't enable some mythical authoritarian approach of the FO making guys buy in.  To me it says, "act up, and we'll ship you to the team of your choosing, in short order".  What about the guy that did everything right, matured into a better player, and still got shipped out?  

 

Do you really think you can count on him?

Everything he has done has been on a whim, with no thought given to how it will affect his team, teammates, or what his coaches even think. Seems like he thinks he can float around and none of his actions have any consequence for reasons that are completely out of touch with reality. Like a 7 year old.

 

He's unreliable. if he worked for you in any capacity, he should be fired.

What happens if he does it again? Up and drops out on Labor day, maybe without even a text this time.

Can't say it is unthinkable, or even improbable.

 

~Bang

[CTskin]

Cravens- run your slow ass 4.74-40 outta here. BIG swing-and-a-miss for the great McClu.

 

I can't believe we got a fifth for him, it's more than I anticipated.

[megared]

33 minutes ago, Bang said:

 

Do you really think you can count on him?

Everything he has done has been on a whim, with no thought given to how it will affect his team, teammates, or what his coaches even think. Seems like he thinks he can float around and none of his actions have any consequence for reasons that are completely out of touch with reality. Like a 7 year old.

 

He's unreliable. if he worked for you in any capacity, he should be fired.

What happens if he does it again? Up and drops out on Labor day, maybe without even a text this time.

Can't say it is unthinkable, or even improbable.

 

~Bang

 

What are we 'counting on' him to do?  Cravens wasn't the reason we didn't make the playoffs last season.  He wasn't even considered critical to the defense because no one knew how placing him at safety full-time would shake out.  His consequences were losing out on a year's salary, not accruing a year, having to rebuild trust with his colleagues and prove once again to everyone that he belongs in the league.  

 

And the Redskins should've held firm as in 'we own your rights for the next 3 years, so if you want to turn this around you've got to say and do the right things to earn your way back on the field'.  The fact that they had so much leverage in the situation, and gave up makes it seem to me that it was more personal than business.  I seriously doubt what we got in the trade moves this franchise closer to competing.  That's what my problem is with it.  

[bedlamVR]

I am not sure if this has been brought up before is here is a scenario ... let’s say we get to last day of cuts and injuries or talent means you have to go heavy in one position or another what do you do if Cravens was 53 and there were say another dime line backer and a standout WR were 54 and 55  mayblsvsmall school / long shots who shine in camp and who could develop into something ... ( maybe like a Dunbar) . 

 

Do you keep Cravens ? Knowing that he walked at this point last year ? Do you give up on your second round investment ... or do you give up on your diamond in the rough ? And would you  not have that feeling every year ? To keep Cravens you are going to have to can someone who maybe slightly less talented but more passionate ? 

 

To me i am a big believer in team concept ... something the patriots embrace, something Gibbs was strong in ... the team might not be littered with stars but they will die on the field for each other .

 

If that’s the culture you are trying to bring about then I am not sure how Cravens could have come back .. 

 

however if you want to culture a locker room where star players can do what the hell they want and get away with it then fine welcome him back with open arms - the scrubs do not like it ... pah forget them ... 

 

The other thing that kind of bothers me about this entire thing is Su’a doesn’t seem to have tried to build any bridges himself . The reason he was shut down for the year was because he was expecting to come back - no questions - but never spoke to the team about it . 

 

Its a bad situation sure ... maybe due diligence wasn’t diligent enough but it’s not like he got here and was a pain from day 1 . I mean he actually played out his rookie season and there really wasn’t any indication anything was wrong that would have lead to this outcome ... 

 

hindsight and foresight ... 

[ColonialWBSkinsFan]

It would be the most "Redskins" thing ever if he went to Denver and became the second coming of Troy freakin' Polamalu for the Broncos....