Per Schefter: Su'a Cravens Considering Retirement

[Bang]

1 minute ago, megared said:

 

Your value is based upon what someone (anyone) is willing to pay.  And I think the Vikings overpaid him.  But he wasn't wrong for not wanting to sign a team friendly deal after the FO rejected his agent's offer sometime ago.  It is what it is.  My overarching theme is that the Redskins have sucked at assessing and capitalizing on value as it exists, whether it is acquired or already present on the roster.  Why would I feel this trade to be any different?  Fact of the matter is, the Redskins haven't definitely 'won' a trade since Ricky Williams.  Based upon the moves we've recently made, what makes you think Bruce got it right this time?  Because you want to see a 23 year beg for forgiveness and be contrite?  

 

 

in this case, value is not just what he got,, the Vikings did overpay him, and even though the dollars may not be so overpaid given the market, the guaranteed aspect is the eye popper. 

Bruce has definitely played it on the cheap, and we will get a chance to find out who was right.. Kirk has everything in place up there.. top defense, killer running game, good OL, and outstanding receivers all over the place. If he wins,, well then i guess for the Vikes it is worth it, but it's not going to mean he could have done it here... their team is much closer than ours.. which means more long term money has to allocate for more pieces.. in Minnesota if they win it in the next year or so, the team can drift apart like a lot of Super Bowl teams do.. salaries balloon, etc. For them, they got the trophy, and i've always wondered just what sort of cash value that is to a team,, how much more money is generated by a super bowl win over the next several years? It's just got to be a crazy amount of cash.

So, given that it certainly seems as if Kirk and his agent parlayed their situation into forcing two max cash tags it can be assumed that unless he robbed the team's vault, he never intended to do anything but leverage himself onto the biggest pile of money he could ind. Good on him.

So, given the circumstance, the move for Smith wasn't bad at all.

We could have another thread and argue his merits over , say Case keenum.. but I don't think in either situation we've come out much lesser than if Kirk would have signed n LTD. Smith is older, obviously.

 

I thought the Redskins did alright with Clinton Portis. I know the trade seemed one sided, but it was another situation of a guy who was leaving,, Champ was not coming back, and they managed to pull off a sign, n trade.

I would rather have kept the 2nd, but we got one of the best RBs the team has ever had in return.

 

One reason we don't win trades is up until very recently teams didn't call us for our players. if we had to make a trade, we showed up to the negotiation with our own barrel to get bent over. See Jason Taylor.

 

Self inflicted wounds,, and to circle back, while Su'a is a self inflicted wound, in the long run, that drama is over, and all the distraction it can cause goes with it. I'll take the picks and tuck my tail.

 

~Bang

[dav87sc]

23 minutes ago, megared said:

Locker room feelings, and hand holding be damned.  

I have been reading you responses and arguments, and I understand your position, but disagree with your conclusions.

You have stated repeatedly that feelings be damned in the locker room, put on your big boy pants and play.

What you don't accept, and others have been trying to explain, is trust in the locker room has a direct impact on trust on the field.

If you quit on me before, why the hell would I trust your judgement on the field.  If I can't trust your judgement or mental ability to be in the right place at the right time performing the right task, then it affects my thinking and decision making.  I have to then make a judgement about cheating on my assignment to cover you  or let you fail and us lose.  Neither choice is good, because it causes systemic failure, and those are exploited by every other team in the league.

 

No team can have players in those situations and be successful.

So the decision has to be, sit him or send him packing.  Why make him sit if you have no faith in his growth and no intention of letting him play.  Move him out and let him become some other teams issue to deal with.  If he is a failure there, then it is unfortunate for the young man.  If he is a success, then good on him.  Most fans won't begrudge a young man eventually growing and maturing and becoming a success elsewhere.  But they will begrudge a player, who quits a second time when things get tough, and the team for allowing that failure to remain and compound.

The prospects for his success are not very good, and then team has chosen (correctly imo) to move on.

[Commander -JB-]

1 hour ago, megared said:

 

Sure you can...you own his rights.  Wouldn't it be more positive to show the team that you'll give guys second chances versus vilifying them the first opportunity you can? 

 

I didn't hear any trade/cut rumors when Trent Williams was failing drug tests... 

 

Define 'absolutely nothing' to me...because what we got isn't much more.  It certainly doesn't change the trajectory of this season.

 

Swearinger's contract is a big part of this.  We're backed into a corner...and do you honestly think this FO had the foresight to realize that?  They'll be thinking about it March of 2019.  

Trent Williams didn’t quit on the team.  He is also an elite LT.  Cmon, man.  Let’s get serious here.  

[megared]

43 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

You're being obtuse. This is my last attempt at discussing it with you. We either get some sort of compensation for a player we expect to not be worth anything, or we get nothing at all. Nobody is going to turn down money being offered for trash.

 

This is assuming that you have confidence that Bruce Allen is going to get the best deal available to the team.  To say it nicely, I can firmly say I'm not in that camp.

 

We didn't have to make a move this moment in time.  When you factor in market forces as well (there are a lot of FA safeties unsigned), my contention is that you couldn't have created a worse market to trade one in.  We may have gotten a better return before FA officially opened, during the draft, after the draft, during training camp, next season, etc.  I didn't see any urgency to act right now, seeing as though, the guy isn't expensive, and it's truly on him to prove to his team that he can (& will) play in the league.  Even if I were to buy into the team being much better off without him, I have little to no confidence that Bruce Allen is capable of retrieving the best return we could have gotten.  And considering it wasn't much, I'm not going to say 'phew, great job, FO'.  

3 minutes ago, -JB- said:

Trent Williams didn’t quit on the team.  He is also an elite LT.  Cmon, man.  Let’s get serious here.  

 

Trent William's immaturity made him unavailable for a period of time and put the team in a rough spot.  Again the point was to show that the guy developed better judgement, probably as a function of maturity and the prospect of being out of a job.  

 

The whole 'quitting' argument makes every other infraction in the history of football seem irrelevant. 

 

"Oh, he beats his wife?  At least he didn't quit on the team".  

"Oh, he's a murdering psychopath?..."

[Commander -JB-]

3 minutes ago, megared said:

 

This is assuming that you have confidence that Bruce Allen is going to get the best deal available to the team.  To say it nicely, I can firmly say I'm not in that camp.

 

We didn't have to make a move this moment in time.  When you factor in market forces as well (there are a lot of FA safeties unsigned), my contention is that you couldn't have created a worse market to trade one in.  We may have gotten a better return before FA officially opened, during the draft, after the draft, during training camp, next season, etc.  I didn't see any urgency to act right now, seeing as though, the guy isn't expensive, and it's truly on him to prove to his team that he can (& will) play in the league.  Even if I were to buy into the team being much better off without him, I have little to no confidence that Bruce Allen is capable of retrieving the best return we could have gotten.  And considering it wasn't much, I'm not going to say 'phew, great job, FO'.  

 

Trent William's immaturity made him unavailable for a period of time and put the team in a rough spot.  Again the point was to show that the guy developed better judgement, probably as a function of maturity and the prospect of being out of a job.  

 

The whole 'quitting' argument makes every other infraction in the history of football seem irrelevant. 

 

"Oh, he beats his wife?  At least he didn't quit on the team".  

"Oh, he's a murdering psychopath?..."

Trent Williams didn’t beat his wife or murder anybody.  He smoked some sticky icky.  Can’t blame him.  He didn’t quit.  He’s a warrior.

[megared]

5 minutes ago, -JB- said:

Trent Williams didn’t beat his wife or murder anybody.  He smoked some sticky icky.  Can’t blame him.  He didn’t quit.  He’s a warrior.

 

But he did it, knowing what the consequences were.  Both acts were out of selfishness and (probably) immaturity.  Except one guy got to redeem himself...

 

I don't hear people vilifying Borland, or Urcshel for retiring.  And Cravens really got his bell rung.  I'm not going to pretend to understand what his decision making process was.  

[Commander -JB-]

4 minutes ago, megared said:

 

But he did it, knowing what the consequences were.  Both acts were out of selfishness and (probably) immaturity.  Except one guy got to redeem himself...

 

I don't hear people vilifying Borland, or Urcshel for retiring.  And Cravens really got his bell rung.  I'm not going to pretend to understand what his decision making process was.  

We could do this all day.  However, the Nats are about to play opening day.  Good day, sir!

[Bang]

You really don't see how Trent's behavior earned that chance, and Su'a squandered it?

 

they brought him back.

within a day he's back on twitter dreaming of being a coach,, and in another day or so he's hollering about pro bowls and how fans are unreasonable in expectations of.. who, no one is quite sure. just a rant.

 

Trent had earned a chance at redemption more than Cravens ever did, and when given it, he took advantage of it.

As you want to say, Trent grew up.

He showed it.

Su'a immediately flew his red flags right back up the pole.

 

back in the day Jimmy Johnson cut a backup linebacker for sleeping in a meeting.

A journalist tried to play the 'all things are equal if you ignore all the details" game and demanded to know whether or not Jimmy would cut Troy Aikman for the same thing. Jimmy told him to stop being stupid, and if he didn't understand the difference between Troy Aikman and a 3rd string linebacker he didn't need to be in the press room.

this is the same situation. Different rules DO apply for different levels. Trent earned his chance, just as Su'a earned his escort out of town.

 

~Bang

[dav87sc]

2 minutes ago, megared said:

But he did it, knowing what the consequences were.  Both acts were out of selfishness and (probably) immaturity.  Except one guy got to redeem himself...

He has had a year out of the game to grow and mature.  The FO has watched him, passed judgement, and made a decision that they don't think his growth or maturation in the last year was enough to merit another shot in the locker room and on the field. 

You don't have to agree, like or accept that, but that is reality.

 

[megared]

2 minutes ago, -JB- said:

We could do this all day.  However, the Nats are about to play opening day.  Good day, sir!

 

I think we have been.  Enjoy the gluttony for pain, that we call DC sports.

[Commander -JB-]

2 minutes ago, megared said:

 

I think we have been.  Enjoy the gluttony for pain, that we call DC sports.

No diggety LOL

[SWFLSkins]

38 minutes ago, megared said:

 

I think we have been.  Enjoy the gluttony for pain, that we call DC sports.

•  

• JOINED Jan 2007 555 posts

Soooooo nearly one tenth of your posts are in 2018 in the Su'a retirement thread playing devils advocate? Are you Su'a Dad? lol. j/k but seriously.... 

 

 

•  
• January 15, 2007

[megared]

1 hour ago, Bang said:

You really don't see how Trent's behavior earned that chance, and Su'a squandered it?

 

they brought him back.

within a day he's back on twitter dreaming of being a coach,, and in another day or so he's hollering about pro bowls and how fans are unreasonable in expectations of.. who, no one is quite sure. just a rant.

 

Trent had earned a chance at redemption more than Cravens ever did, and when given it, he took advantage of it.

As you want to say, Trent grew up.

He showed it.

Su'a immediately flew his red flags right back up the pole.

 

back in the day Jimmy Johnson cut a backup linebacker for sleeping in a meeting.

A journalist tried to play the 'all things are equal if you ignore all the details" game and demanded to know whether or not Jimmy would cut Troy Aikman for the same thing. Jimmy told him to stop being stupid, and if he didn't understand the difference between Troy Aikman and a 3rd string linebacker he didn't need to be in the press room.

this is the same situation. Different rules DO apply for different levels. Trent earned his chance, just as Su'a earned his escort out of town.

 

~Bang

 

I'm not saying the guy is logical.  My only point was IMO we don't have the luxury of being picky.  Our roster is not just overflowing with young, cheap talent in the secondary (the Scandrick signing should confirm that statement) or really elsewhere.

 

The guy certainly has some warts.  But the FO ain't so easy on the eyes either, if you catch my drift.  

 

Based on his social media posts, I don't think he's getting the best advice either...but again I still felt like we didn't attempt to maximize our investment and were content to merely cut ties.  You'll probably disagree and say we got something...to which I'll say it's the draft equivalent of a ham sammich.  

 

[megared]

24 minutes ago, SWFLSkins said:

•  

• JOINED Jan 2007 555 posts

Soooooo nearly one tenth of your posts are in 2018 in the Su'a retirement thread playing devils advocate? Are you Su'a Dad? lol. j/k but seriously....

• January 15, 2007

 

Nah, like I said, I don't really care about him as a player.  I am beyond through with this FO though...and I'm not going to tend to believe whatever their narrative is when there's ambiguity.  I think it's time for us to stop believing verbatim everything they say, because we all WANT it to be true.    

1 hour ago, dav87sc said:

He has had a year out of the game to grow and mature.  The FO has watched him, passed judgement, and made a decision that they don't think his growth or maturation in the last year was enough to merit another shot in the locker room and on the field. 

You don't have to agree, like or accept that, but that is reality.

 

 

And I hear you, but the only thing Bruce Allen should be assessing is the hue of gold in our uniform pants, or visiting turkey farms in preparation of the next Harvest Fest.  

[SWFLSkins]

14 minutes ago, megared said:

 

Nah, like I said, I don't really care about him as a player.  I am beyond through with this FO though...and I'm not going to tend to believe whatever their narrative is when there's ambiguity.  I think it's time for us to stop believing verbatim everything they say, because we all WANT it to be true.    

 

 

 

Just like I said with Kirk, don't mistake my dislike of player actions as a lack of growing disdain for the FO, lol. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

20 hours ago, Mr.Will said:

So you saw that too??..don’t get me wrong,I was trolling quite a bit an having a lil fun over it but even after I toned it down in other posts,they scrubbed em off after bout 30 seconds

 

Yea, saw that...and what was posted after they booted you and deleted/scrubbed stuff :

"Thread Cleaned"...

You're a virus ! Haha.....Just kiddin

Way to take one for the team.

 

[Mr.Will]

1 hour ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Yea, saw that...and what was posted after they booted you and deleted/scrubbed stuff :

"Thread Cleaned"...

You're a virus ! Haha.....Just kiddin

Way to take one for the team.

 

Thx,I appreciate it bruh!!..I logged in cause I was curious as to what the fan base was feeling over the trade and what I read kinda irked me a lil bit-don’t get me wrong,I know how most fans of other teams feel about us(I hear it plenty-lol) but I felt I had to fire back and defend us,plus I was still pissed over the video Lil Suzy posted with his lil tar-tar,window licking,goofball of a face-and I went at em but I never would’ve expected for them to wipe every single post I pasted as soon as I hit send-lol!!..I get it,it’s there lil forum and if a Denver fan got on here pulling what I did we would’ve let em have it too..But is like to hope we woukd do it a whole lot tougher than they did me?..like I said before,all that smack they’re talking now is gonna totally bite em within a season or so..HTTR!!!!

[Mr.Will]

5 hours ago, dav87sc said:

I have been reading you responses and arguments, and I understand your position, but disagree with your conclusions.

You have stated repeatedly that feelings be damned in the locker room, put on your big boy pants and play.

What you don't accept, and others have been trying to explain, is trust in the locker room has a direct impact on trust on the field.

If you quit on me before, why the hell would I trust your judgement on the field.  If I can't trust your judgement or mental ability to be in the right place at the right time performing the right task, then it affects my thinking and decision making.  I have to then make a judgement about cheating on my assignment to cover you  or let you fail and us lose.  Neither choice is good, because it causes systemic failure, and those are exploited by every other team in the league.

 

No team can have players in those situations and be successful.

So the decision has to be, sit him or send him packing.  Why make him sit if you have no faith in his growth and no intention of letting him play.  Move him out and let him become some other teams issue to deal with.  If he is a failure there, then it is unfortunate for the young man.  If he is a success, then good on him.  Most fans won't begrudge a young man eventually growing and maturing and becoming a success elsewhere.  But they will begrudge a player, who quits a second time when things get tough, and the team for allowing that failure to remain and compound.

The prospects for his success are not very good, and then team has chosen (correctly imo) to move on.

To me the Su’a situation was kinda like this...You just asked your girl to marry you,invest over a million bucks on the wedding-Then shes caught cheating on you!!..so now this will always be in the back of your mind,no matter what!!..you wanna take her back and make it work but now that it’s damaged..that million dollar wedding just became a trip to the Justice of the Peace,if it’s gonna happen at all!!..We just decided not to chase her,but Replace her!!.along the lines of fool me once!!!!!

[LaRonDontLikeUgly]

Blah blah blah... Someone please kill this Non-Redskin-Related thread so this Never-Redskin will Never-Be-Remembered. 

 

No one paid attention to my pre-draft analysis a few years back, so I’ll copy and paste:

 

Craven got little weak nipples.  Prefers not to breathe on his own when above sea-level.  Prone to “duck-face” selfies.  Still practices kissing girls on back of his own hand.  Shows stiffness in nipples. Prefers Disney classics over game film.  Not a tap guy, Brita filter must have at least 3 bars. Currently reading this analysis while checking his nipples. 

 

PROJECTED GRADE: FU

[dav87sc]

5 hours ago, megared said:

And I hear you, but the only thing Bruce Allen should be assessing is the hue of gold in our uniform pants, or visiting turkey farms in preparation of the next Harvest Fest.  

Somehow, I don't think Bruce was the final arbiter of whether or not he was still a viable Redskin.  I am sure there were several other voices involved. Bruce was the trigger guy, and did what his role(still shaking my head at that thought) called for in the situation.  We can always second guess about not getting enough compensation, but in the end, this needed to happen and it is done.

[Rocky52Mc]

On 3/28/2018 at 8:25 PM, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Keith Marshall is still with us

 

 

Last word on this from me;

 

The Redskins ended their relationship with Cravens in 2017. He "retired" when he didn't feel like rehabbing his knee at Redskins park and performing the needed rehab, workouts, and monitoring process a typical NFL team puts in place in those situations. When you see a player in a hoodie on the sideline on game days; they were supposed to be busting their ass off all week on rehab and meetings, but not Cravens. He wanted the luxury of doing this on his own terms, he fled to the west coast. When he healed, he came back to Redskins park under the impression that he would be coming back to play. Before his plane landed, the Redskins placed him on the "left squad" list. This pissed Cravens off to no end, the team and the front office had already moved onward. This is not hard to analyze, it's not hard to understand without knowing much about him. No one here trusted him after he violated everyone's mutual trust that comes with this aggressive business.

 

Good luck to him in Denver in trying to work through the mountainous levels of immaturity standing in his way. He'll get a second chance, and the odds aren't really in his favor.

[SWFLSkins]

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Nicki Jhabvala

@NickiJhabvala

 

Just talked to Su'a Cravens about his trade to Denver. Story to come, but this is one quote that really stood out: "I wanted to play football where somebody WANTED me. I can tell that Denver actually wanted me on the team. It wasn’t just, ‘This is smart for our team.’"

 

 

**********

 

(Where's that ****ing eye roll emoticon)

[NoVaSkins21]

1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

Nicki Jhabvala

@NickiJhabvala

 

Just talked to Su'a Cravens about his trade to Denver. Story to come, but this is one quote that really stood out: "I wanted to play football where somebody WANTED me. I can tell that Denver actually wanted me on the team. It wasn’t just, ‘This is smart for our team.’"

 

 

**********

 

(Where's that ****ing eye roll emoticon)

 

All of this coming from the mouth of a QUITTER.  He's the one who didn't want to be here.  He checked out a long time ago.  It's just a matter of time, before Denver realizes that he's a problem child that can't be fixed.

[Burgold]

Possibly my last thought on Su'a Cravens. Someone brought up Williams' and his weed suspension. I agree with that person that Williams was immature and hurt the team. That said, Williams had at least two things going for him that Su'a did not:

 

1) A track record of excellence and probowls

 

2) A position. With the Redskins, Cravens had never played a snap at safety. He didn't play well enough at nicklebacker where we envisioned him wrecking terror and so the Redskins were projecting and hoping that he might fit back at his college position, but they didn't know. They drafted him as a tweener, but while that could be a good thing it's also a problem. He's slow to be a DB and not big enough to be a linebacker. Some guys in that middle create a position and a place for themselves. To date, Cravens did not. He flashed some. He sure tackled hard and well when he hit, but I don't think anyone was going "WOW! This guy is going to dominate the NFL for ten years doing that stuff!" At this point, three years in, Cravens is all about potential whereas, at this point, he should be mostly about production. So, not only is he a quitter, but he's also a question mark. No one knows if he'll do well in Denver or if they got a great player who was just a malcontent here because of Redskins' mismanagement.

 

We know no one was saying that he wasn't good enough to be our nicklebacker because he didn't do well enough to stick. We also don't know if he would have been able to cut it as an NFL safety because he quit before he played a single snap. I'm not even sure if he was slated to be the starter or back up. It's possible he quit because he couldn't deal with the idea of being a second stringer or having to "earn" his time when in his mind he is the star (though that's conjecture).