visionary Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 42 minutes ago, tshile said: You guys are putting a lot of eggs in the “rely on voters that don’t vote” basket you got it last midterm. You’re counting on it this general. Now we’re talking about next midterm. Risky bet. Guess we’ll see I meant repeating 2018 midterm turnout in 2020 could be enough to win the senate. I think the general election will have even higher turnout for Dems because it’s a direct chance to remove trump from office. The midterms were the first chance we could reject him and it was historic. Now we can actually remove the piece of garbage from office? Forget impeachment forget his crimes forget it all. It’s all over if you show up and you get your wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 13 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: I meant repeating 2018 midterm turnout in 2020 could be enough to win the senate. Ah I misunderstood. I’m sure if they can get them out for the 2020 then you’ll see help down ballot. I don’t know what’s realistic though, others have put a bit of effort into it throughout the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 1 hour ago, tshile said: You guys are putting a lot of eggs in the “rely on voters that don’t vote” basket you got it last midterm. You’re counting on it this general. Now we’re talking about next midterm. Risky bet. Guess we’ll see I mean I dont think Dems really have a choice. They need they votes that dont vote to change that habit or they cant win this thing. 1 hour ago, tshile said: Or registration records. Don’t have to change votes, just prevent some people from voting. Given what ive seen (only public info but I imagine I’m more in tune with it than most since it aligns with all my news feeds) I’m not certain they didn’t mess with something last time and I have no faith we can stop them in future elections This is whats scary about it. We have literally done nothing to stop it from happening again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 10 minutes ago, Llevron said: I mean I dont think Dems really have a choice. They need they votes that dont vote to change that habit or they cant win this thing. I don’t agree with this but we’ve been round and round on it a number of times. I’m in the minority here in that view. 10 minutes ago, Llevron said: This is whats scary about it. We have literally done nothing to stop it from happening again. Im going to be tedious and pick some nits here. We havent literally done nothing. Machines have been decertified and there has been movement. It’s just that change like this take a long time even if the government is functioning at an acceptable level, and we’re clearly functioning very poorly if at all at the moment. I dont have any faith in the state of the 2020 election machines and the backend systems running the process (specifically registration databases which i strongly feel is the week point and likely the best point of attack) like many things our government ****s up something that should be simple and lacks the ability/desire to prioritize it the way they should (which is why I laugh at the faith some of you put in federally run systems) its a big topic and a lot of people are working on it but ultimately there’s big gov’t contracting money and budgets in play. Given the current state of things it’s hard to imagine our elected officials will get this right and in a quick fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Not sure where to put this Thankfully our right-wing militia extremists are in government.... oh wait 😨 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 1 hour ago, BenningRoadSkin said: Thankfully our right-wing militia extremists are in government.... oh wait 😨 It can always get worse here. And I think if Trump loses in 2020, the rightward drift of the GOP post-Trump isn't all that far from straight up militia extremism. This has already been happening on the west coast, and we've had hints of it with Charlottesville and the the lunatics who are routinely caught plotting assassinations and bombings against liberal politicians or minority groups. A party that thinks of Alex Jones as "having a great reputation" isn't too far from its members going down a seriously dark path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Trump’s ego would love a civil war to be launched in his name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Let's keep in mind the GOP didn't just lose in the midterms where they typically do better, they got annihilated. If its another slaughter fest in 2020, I'm not sold the GOP will double down on another Trump after that. That just doesn't make logical sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 15 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Let's keep in mind the GOP didn't just lose in the midterms where they typically do better, they got annihilated. If its another slaughter fest in 2020, I'm not sold the GOP will double down on another Trump after that. That just doesn't make logical sense to me. The issue with the GOP overall right now is that beginning with the influx of the loony Tea Party Candidates and now through the Trumpublicans, it is hard to just rid them from the party or even silence them. Trump leaving in 2020 (or ugh...2024) is not going to transform the party back to what it was pre-Obama, overnight. It is going to take some soul searching and self reflection by the GOP. That party is going to have to shift in some ways going forward whether some of them like it or not. Right now they are going in the opposite direction, the ones who remain are loud, fringe, and die-hard, but it is a smaller number with each passing election cycle. So far all the GOP has come up with, is attempting to modify voting rights and cheating at elections. That has been their strategy to deal with a lessening base of voters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 22 minutes ago, NoCalMike said: The issue with the GOP overall right now is that beginning with the influx of the loony Tea Party Candidates and now through the Trumpublicans, it is hard to just rid them from the party or even silence them. Trump leaving in 2020 (or ugh...2024) is not going to transform the party back to what it was pre-Obama, overnight. It is going to take some soul searching and self reflection by the GOP. That party is going to have to shift in some ways going forward whether some of them like it or not. Right now they are going in the opposite direction, the ones who remain are loud, fringe, and die-hard, but it is a smaller number with each passing election cycle. So far all the GOP has come up with, is attempting to modify voting rights and cheating at elections. That has been their strategy to deal with a lessening base of voters. I agree it will take multiple asswhippings before they concede and starting appealing to people that are conservative regardless of their race. I'd be less opposed to voting republican if they weren't so hostile to minorities and social issues, one day they'll crossover and they need to to prevent a potential total domination by the dems (which could be its own problem). Probably the only thing more dangerous in this country then our two party system is a one party system, I don't care how liberal I am on certain issues i shudder at the thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 53 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Let's keep in mind the GOP didn't just lose in the midterms where they typically do better, they got annihilated. If its another slaughter fest in 2020, I'm not sold the GOP will double down on another Trump after that. That just doesn't make logical sense to me. They are Trump’s party and their voters want that. It will be a smarter Trump. The key is to create laws and constitutional amendments to actually protect the country from that. Only Warren is talking about wielding power as a Democratic President. 36 minutes ago, NoCalMike said: The issue with the GOP overall right now is that beginning with the influx of the loony Tea Party Candidates and now through the Trumpublicans, it is hard to just rid them from the party or even silence them. Trump leaving in 2020 (or ugh...2024) is not going to transform the party back to what it was pre-Obama, overnight. It is going to take some soul searching and self reflection by the GOP. That party is going to have to shift in some ways going forward whether some of them like it or not. Right now they are going in the opposite direction, the ones who remain are loud, fringe, and die-hard, but it is a smaller number with each passing election cycle. So far all the GOP has come up with, is attempting to modify voting rights and cheating at elections. That has been their strategy to deal with a lessening base of voters. Can we be real? It’s what the money arm of the GOP wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 16 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: They are Trump’s party and their voters want that. It will be a smarter Trump. The key is to create laws and constitutional amendments to actually protect the country from that. Only Warren is talking about wielding power as a Democratic President. It just reminds of the tea party situation on steroids where its not they made up the majority of the party, the party would lose almost all the power it had if it split. Billy Bob from Oklahoma doesn't feed billions of dollars into these elections, establishment guys like the Koch brothers do. People like McConnell focus on maintaining power first, anytime Trump does something Cocain Mitch believes will cost him power even he pushes back. The split hasn't happened because they're winning elections, how long will it take if that changes? One of the main things helping Trump is even after being in office for three years, he still acts like an outsider, some junkyard dog the far right-wing found and adopted and they love him because he still bites people. I don't even know what a smart Trump would look like anymore because the people that followed in his path aren't going to be outsiders. There's no halfway when dealing with his base, you can't come at them with some reasonable method of going about this, that's not what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 13 hours ago, LadySkinsFan said: Forget 2016. Remember 2018 and build on that! This is exactly right, imo. There was some particular dislike of Hillary that built up over a quarter of a century, but she could have won anyway by energizing the left (choosing a progressive VP and not publicly siding with Debbie Wasserman Schultz after she was exposed for putting her thumb on the scale would have been starts) and campaigning heavily in the three states that swung the election. It was a turnout election and Hillary lost by trying to do exactly what pundits are screaming the Democrats have to do- bending over backwards to win white "moderates". In 2018 those three swing states, plus Minnesota (Trump only lost that by 1 point) each went Dem in popular vote for house seats by at least 7 points. In each of those states they elected a Democratic Governor and a Dem Senator, except Minnesota, which elected two Democratic Senators. The only one of those races that was particularly close was Wisconsin Governor, where Scott Walker has been strangely popular. The key to 2020 is to turn up the voters from 2018 and more. Drive turnout, don't demoralize your base by going GOP-lite to chase voters you're probably not going to win anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 34 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I don't even know what a smart Trump would look like anymore because the people that followed in his path aren't going to be outsiders. The Koch’s et al created the Tea Party Movement. It was not organic. When Trump popped up, he was propped up by the Mercer’s. My point is money drives this and they can create someone to not be abrasive like trump but quietly destroy this country. Trump hasn’t done much of anything out of line with the conservative movement of the last 40 years. They just hate the way he talks and acts but he is a standard Republican in terms of his domestic policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 1 minute ago, BenningRoadSkin said: The Koch’s et al created the Tea Party Movement. It was not organic. When Trump popped up, he was propped up by the Mercer’s. My point is money drives this and they can create someone to not be abrasive like trump but quietly destroy this country. Trump hasn’t done much of anything out of line with the conservative movement of the last 40 years. They just hate the way he talks and acts but he is a standard Republican in terms of his domestic policy. Vehemently disagree here with his heavy attacks on free trade, allienating NATO, and going all in with race fear mongering versus the standard issue dogwhistles. Nothing standard republican about this guy except wanting tax cuts, he's taken the concept of a weaker federal government and made it damn near inept. I get what your saying that someone big did give him money, but he was outraised by Hillary 2 to 1. Koch Brothers have already said they won't back him in 2020. If Trump barely loses, it still sounds like a bad idea for establishment republicans to double down on another candidate which in theory would ignore them on on their advice in most cases, another outsider. His panel of corporations didn't stand a chance, it seems like a helluva risk to run with someone else that wants to risk the economy with trade wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Vehemently disagree here with his heavy attacks on free trade, allienating NATO, and going all in with race fear mongering versus the standard issue dogwhistles. Nothing standard republican about this guy except wanting tax cuts, he's taken the concept of a weaker federal government and made it damn near inept. This was the tea party’s platform which was the next step of the conservative movement. Trump has zero ideology. The only thing out of line is his stance on Russia and his foreign policy which is neoconservative influenced but Trump domestic policy he is a standard Republican President right down race-based fear mongering which is what Reagan did with a smile. 9 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I get what your saying that someone big did give him money, but he was outraised by Hillary 2 to 1. Koch Brothers have already said they won't back him in 2020. If Trump barely loses, it still sounds like a bad idea for establishment republicans to double down on another candidate which in theory would ignore them on on their advice in most cases, another outsider. His panel of corporations didn't stand a chance, it seems like a helluva risk to run with someone else that wants to risk the economy with trade wars. I’m not talking about donors in 2016, I’m talking about Trump’s presidency. Big business loves Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 53 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: This was the tea party’s platform which was the next step of the conservative movement. Trump has zero ideology. The only thing out of line is his stance on Russia and his foreign policy which is neoconservative influenced but Trump domestic policy he is a standard Republican President right down race-based fear mongering which is what Reagan did with a smile. Huh? One the greatest victories the Tea Party could claim was the Sequester a desperate attempt to balance the budget. I may be wrong but i felt if anything else their biggest gripe was out of control spending and the lost that battle hard, Trump is well in his way to trillion dollar deficit again while balloning the defense budget. What you have left is a whole bunch of people mad at everything and looking for someone desperately to be as destruptive as they were, enter Trump. Quote I’m not talking about donors in 2016, I’m talking about Trump’s presidency. Big business loves Trump. Is that why corporate America is begging him to get back in the Paris Climate according and saying thanks but no that is on reducing the emissions standards Obama put in? For every coal company that loves him there's two agriculture companies that hate his guts with the trade wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Lol "Sanders is right except he's underselling the level of inequality that exists since poor people literally have no money and the three people at the top have more than before, so we're gonna have to throw some Pinocchios up there." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Sanders lost points for trying to answer some of his questions with revolution speeches. At this point we get it bro, breathe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 30 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said: The key to 2020 is to turn up the voters from 2018 and more. Drive turnout, don't demoralize your base by going GOP-lite to chase voters you're probably not going to win anyway. This seems a little pretzel'd up. If 2018 is any indication, States like AZ/TX/NC/GA could and should be battleground states. Thinking a Democrat can't win GA or TX is like thinking Trump couldn't win PA. (IMO) I don't think its about chasing voters you're probably not going to win; I think its more like a bell curve type thing where things influence each other. You also don't want to lose while you make gains. Can't work hard in WI/MI/PA while conceding Florida or Ohio. (or other areas/demographics) btw, here is some good data on how 2018, helps support your strategy: https://ballotpedia.org/Pivot_counties:_How_Obama-Obama-Trump_counties_voted_in_the_2018_U.S._House_elections Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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