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Presidential Election: 11/3/20 ---Now the President Elect Joe Biden Thread


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As a tangent from @tshile's post.  What exactly is the chance of the Dems winning supermajorities in both houses and that supermajority, including all the swing state senators and reps, actually voting for these pie in the sky plans like abolishing private insurance, forgiving all student debt, etc.  Are we discussing the future Democratic Party Manifesto or policies that a president who gets elected in 2020 actually has a snowball's chance in hell of implementing?  

 

If someone put a gun to my head and said I had to bet my life savings on either a president elected in 2020 being able to implement a laundry list of every liberals' wet dreams or all DC sports franchises running the table and winning championships in 2020, I'm betting on the latter.  And it's not even close. 

 

Don't tell me what you want to do if someone made you a monarch with absolute power.  Tell me what you can accomplish if you get elected in 2020 with a divided Congress and a conservative Supreme Court.

 

Edited by bearrock
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13 hours ago, PeterMP said:

I've never understood why people thought Biden was a strong candidate and why he would have had a better chance of beating Trump than Hillary.

 

Said it here many times that people that thought Biden would have done a better job were wrong.

 

The Palin debate, Bridge to Nowhere.   Hilary never had a moment like that in her debates.

 

Biden is good at zingers and would appeal to baby boomers.

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3 minutes ago, DCSaints_fan said:

 

The Palin debate, Bridge to Nowhere.   Hilary never had a moment like that in her debates.

 

Biden is good at zingers and would appeal to baby boomers.

He destroyed Paul Ryan in 2012, too. It was desperately needed after Obama no showed in his first debate with Mitt the week prior. 

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1 hour ago, No Excuses said:

If the vote share of college educated workers increases, it stands to reason that we likely start seeing candidates elected to public office who uphold stronger democratic laws and values.

 

Only if you believe that correlation = causation or have decided that a college education is good and are trying to rationalize that belief.

 

(vs. let's say that older people tend to be more conservative and less open minded (and this is generally true across generations and not just specific to baby boomers and the current situation) and older people tend to be less college educated so not college educated people tend to vote for the GOP, but it is not causative just correlative.  The causative component is age.)

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Implying Biden is a racist is a great way for the dems to get Trump re-elected. And yes, I know Harris said "I don't believe you're a racist." But she knew how that was going to play. 

 

Never underestimate the left's ability to destroy itself. Between this and letting the GOP paint them as the open border party, I think our insane president is feeling pretty good right now about 2020.

Edited by Hooper
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1 hour ago, PeterMP said:

 

Only if you believe that correlation = causation or have decided that a college education is good and are trying to rationalize that belief.

 

(vs. let's say that older people tend to be more conservative and less open minded (and this is generally true across generations and not just specific to baby boomers and the current situation) and older people tend to be less college educated so not college educated people tend to vote for the GOP, but it is not causative just correlative.  The causative component is age.)

 

You are now doing your usual schtick of arguing for the sake of argument. The demographic trend of college educated voters rejecting the GOP isn’t “correlation=causation” (it doesn’t even apply in this context anyways, demographic voting patterns are indicative of people’s value system, like how minorities largely reject the GOP and white Christians embrace the GOP).

 

And this isn’t even an argument worth having to be honest. You are contesting the fact that a well educated populace is necessary for a healthy and vibrant democracy. And your counterpoint to this is nothing really rooted in data, as you have provided no supporting evidence of your view. 

 

We already see in the voting patterns of the last three decades, particularly in the US South, that a largely un-educated population in the US has played a key role in repeatedly electing officials who have weakened democracy, disenfranchised voters and consistently fraught against the civil rights of minority groups. This is a well researcher phenomena at this point: https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2018/11/education-gap-explains-american-politics/575113/

 

I’m not interested in arguing if you aren’t going to support your views with anything grounded in facts or numbers, rather than just dismissing views because they don’t align with your starting position, even after you’ve been presented credible information that goes against it.

Edited by No Excuses
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1 hour ago, Hooper said:

Implying Biden is a racist is a great way for the dems to get Trump re-elected. And yes, I know Harris said "I don't believe you're a racist." But she knew how that was going to play. 

 

Never underestimate the left's ability to destroy itself. Between this and letting the GOP paint them as the open border party, I think our insane president is feeling pretty good right now about 2020.

I find this completely backward. If Biden can't handle questions about his policy history, or even about the statements he makes now, then letting him just coast to the nomination without challenge would seem to be the way for "the dems to get Trump re-elected".

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As soon as Biden declared he was running I said that the guy has been involved in politics for so long that there are things from his past that don't jive with the modern day Democratic party (or hell, even some of the GOP as well) and he better have some good answers ready to go when questioned on it.  (Spoiler: So far, he doesn't).

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1 hour ago, Hooper said:

Implying Biden is a racist is a great way for the dems to get Trump re-elected. And yes, I know Harris said "I don't believe you're a racist." But she knew how that was going to play. 

 

Never underestimate the left's ability to destroy itself. Between this and letting the GOP paint them as the open border party, I think our insane president is feeling pretty good right now about 2020.

 

She didn’t imply Biden was a racist, she looked at his record and attacked him. And she took his own words from last week and attacked him. Idk what some of you want from these candidates but they should be trying to win. Better to do it now than in the general election.

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2 hours ago, bearrock said:

As a tangent from @tshile's post.  What exactly is the chance of the Dems winning supermajorities in both houses and that supermajority, including all the swing state senators and reps, actually voting for these pie in the sky plans like abolishing private insurance, forgiving all student debt, etc.  Are we discussing the future Democratic Party Manifesto or policies that a president who gets elected in 2020 actually has a snowball's chance in hell of implementing?  

This was the point my wife made last night and my boss made at lunch... i'm finding problems with people pitching ideas they can't implement, when I should just be focused on how terrible Trump is.

 

And i'm not trying to ignore that argument, I understand the validity of it...

 

but ultimately what you're asking me to do is vote for someone that's running on a series of policies i do not agree with and I do not want. And that I should be comfortable doing so because... they won't get to implement them.

 

I'm sorry but I'm not comfortable with that and I do not agree with that logic, I find it fundamentally flawed. 

 

It reminds me of the GOP tax plan where our cuts expire in 7 years, and their response was "don't worry about that, we wont let it happen"

 

Or signing a contract with someone that lets them out of responsibility if something happens, and them saying "Don't worry, we wont do that"

 

You're pitching your policies to run for president. I'm supposed to ignore the fact that I don't like them? That doesn't seem right/smart/etc.

 

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2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

If I'm not mistaken you voted third party last time instead of Trump, and even though got crap for it, you didn't get crap from me.  You don't sound like you'd change course and vote for Trump, and no, I don't believe the left is ignoring conservatives. 

 

You're right about me and last time. But last time was that I didn't like the candidates in fundamental ways. I loathe what Clinton represented as well as Trump. I didn't want either in the whitehouse, for different reasons. I was angry both parties managed to pick candidates I could never get behind.

 

I don't hate the main candidates for the Dem part. I don't hate AOC either (who I bring up because she seems to be a rising Dem star). I like that many of them seem to be identifying important, big problems. I find the debates within the democrats interesting, as opposed to the GOP where I find them lacking in intelligent discussion. But I don't like their (the dems) solutions. 

 

(and for the record, i can't think of one Republican I actually like at the moment.)

 

The dems are currently fighting to figure out what their party platform is, so I've been trying to stay out of that for now because I'm not a democrat. My concern is what that means when the general election comes around.

 

If the dems nominee is running on a platform like what we see them pitching in these debates, i don't thing i'm going to be able to vote for that.  I'm going to be reduced to picking between an incompetent incumbent and a platform I very much disagree with. The one I disagree with is going to take away the insurance I like and replace it with a system run by an entity that's track record is running failing systems, and raise taxes to pay for wiping student debt, making college free, reparations, etc. 

 

As much as I hate Trump and as much of an incompetent buffoon he is, the truth is my life is largely unaffected from his four years. I'm happy what i have and how I fit into the system, and I've worked hard to get to that point and it's taken a long time. I'm not thrilled at the prospect of turning all these things upside down and what that likely means for me. 

 

And as I've learned throughout the last few years, no one else cares about what's good/bad for me, so I better. As much as I've changed over the last 10 years (and I've changed a lot, to the point where my voting record shows I've voted for Dems more than Republicans), every time I raise a concern the response is 'yeah, well, deal with it'. See the discussion on insurance earlier, people will be happy to see me lose what I like and pay for others to have what they want. 

 

It's hard to support that. It's hard to root for that side. It's incredible to me that as easy as this should be for the Dems to beat trump, they've found a way to quickly alienate me and make me reconsider the 2020 election, and maybe I'm just way out of touch but it seems like there's quite a few people out there that are like me.

 

Edited by tshile
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I agree that sometimes the policies don't jive with the currently reality of what the makeup of the House/Senate/Supreme Court would even allow to become law, however there is the "Vision for America's future" aspect to a campaign too that does deserve to be shared. 

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3 hours ago, Hooper said:

Implying Biden is a racist is a great way for the dems to get Trump re-elected. And yes, I know Harris said "I don't believe you're a racist." But she knew how that was going to play. 

 

Never underestimate the left's ability to destroy itself. Between this and letting the GOP paint them as the open border party, I think our insane president is feeling pretty good right now about 2020.

Once again, I've said it a thousand times: Dems eat their own. I'm not saying we should put up someone like Trump or Roy Moore, but we want everyone to resign over everything. As a black man, I'm glad Northam stuck it out. He's trying to do actual well meaning work, I can forgive a blackface moment that happened before I was born.

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3 hours ago, No Excuses said:

 

You are now doing your usual schtick of arguing for the sake of argument. The demographic trend of college educated voters rejecting the GOP isn’t “correlation=causation” (it doesn’t even apply in this context anyways, demographic voting patterns are indicative of people’s value system, like how minorities largely reject the GOP and white Christians embrace the GOP).

 

And this isn’t even an argument worth having to be honest. You are contesting the fact that a well educated populace is necessary for a healthy and vibrant democracy. And your counterpoint to this is nothing really rooted in data, as you have provided no supporting evidence of your view. 

 

We already see in the voting patterns of the last three decades, particularly in the US South, that a largely un-educated population in the US has played a key role in repeatedly electing officials who have weakened democracy, disenfranchised voters and consistently fraught against the civil rights of minority groups. This is a well researcher phenomena at this point: https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2018/11/education-gap-explains-american-politics/575113/

 

I’m not interested in arguing if you aren’t going to support your views with anything grounded in facts or numbers, rather than just dismissing views because they don’t align with your starting position, even after you’ve been presented credible information that goes against it.

 

Yes, heaven forbid somebody require people to think logically and support their arguments (my shtick).

 

The only information you've presented to support claims you MADE is simply correlation.  You know enough to know that correlation does not equal causation.

 

(You are trying to shift the burden of evidence to me.  You've made claims that you can't support.  I've pointed out that you can't support them and they are more likely the result of your preconceived biases than actual evidentary support.)

 

However, in this case, there are actually studies that do show going to college doesn't make you more liberal.

 

"College Doesn't Make You Liberal"

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/04/opinion/sunday/college-doesnt-make-you-liberal.html

 

(I will say in terms of education and democracy, I suspect that a large number of traits (a sense of fairness, justice, cooperation, collaboration, empathy, etc) are more important than education (especially the modern US higher education concept of education) are more important.  But since I can't support that with data, I also wouldn't advance that argument heavily.  For example, I wouldn't claim that empathy training was an important for a functional democracy as you have with a college education.

 

I wouldn't say it was unimportant, but looking at history and the current state of democracy, I have problems also saying that it is highly important.  In the end, there isn't enough evidence to draw a conclusion hence I would draw no conclusion.

 

The same with empathy.)

 

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2 hours ago, tshile said:

 

 

As much as I hate Trump and as much of an incompetent buffoon he is, the truth is my life is largely unaffected from his four years. I'm happy what i have and how I fit into the system, and I've worked hard to get to that point and it's taken a long time. I'm not thrilled at the prospect of turning all these things upside down and what that likely means for me. 

 

Except your life is affected by Trump (or at least it should be)

 

Under Trump, for the first time in years, air quality has gotten worse and with the continued lowering of safeguards we will be breathing in more and more pollution. 

 

Under Trump, water and food safety has gotten worse. So, if you eat or drink you are affected by his policies.

 

Under Trump, there has been a significant rise in hate crime violence (maybe that doesn't affect you, but it should)

 

Under Trump, the debt has sky rocketed and many in the middle class are paying more in taxes (I know I did)

 

etc.

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25 minutes ago, visionary said:

 

 

I've got a lot of problem with what Trump & Co have done to the State Department, but handing out cushy diplomatic posts to donors isn't one of them.  I assume that's been going on for at least 100 years.  It's what he's done to the career people who I assume have actually done the real work for years.  

 

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8 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

I've got a lot of problem with what Trump & Co have done to the State Department, but handing out cushy diplomatic posts to donors isn't one of them.  I assume that's been going on for at least 100 years.  It's what he's done to the career people who I assume have actually done the real work for years.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

I've got a lot of problem with what Trump & Co have done to the State Department, but handing out cushy diplomatic posts to donors isn't one of them.  I assume that's been going on for at least 100 years.  It's what he's done to the career people who I assume have actually done the real work for years.  

 

Look at who Trump's nominating for UN ambassador. From donor to Canadian ambassador to probable UN ambassador. If this wasn't common practice she would be nowhere near being UN ambassador. It's a relic that needs to be done away with. It's good to put serious people in these positions. 

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  • Rdskns2000 changed the title to Presidential Election: 11/3/20- Joe Biden WILL BEAT Donald Trump. Yes he will, U-watch. Friday or Saturday, Joe will win!
  • Jumbo changed the title to Presidential Election: 11/3/20 ---Now the President Elect Joe Biden Thread

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