MartinC Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 20 hours ago, Redskins Reparations said: I can see Allen and Anderson having a chat with him about his toughness. I don't think you can coach toughness. You either have it or you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 29 minutes ago, MartinC said: I don't think you can coach toughness. You either have it or you don't. Well yes and no. A lot of guys learned "tough" early on, hard lessons a lot of the time, and used those to build something with. Others didn't. Many people just never get the chance to learn "tough", and I don't think its genetic so it does need to be learned. Take a couple guys like Allen and Anderson, they know tough, they've been coached tough, they understand how to use tough as part of their game. They can set an example, kinda mentor tough to others that haven't had it. Those guys may never be able to teach tough, but they might learn to play tough. In most groups of people most follow, need to follow, crave someone or something to follow, and if we can get a couple guys to get tough as a following, there might be hope for us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Montae, If you made the mistake of reading this board please ignore the negative comments made by all these know nothing sadsacks that have never seen you play and don't really know anything about you except a snippet they read on a website written by a guy that probably doesn't know much either. Forget about all of this nonesense because it really doesn't have anything to do with you how could it they don't really know about you. It is all about the fans being angry at the ownership and senior management. Redskin fans hate the owner, Dan Snyder, who is a doofus turned rich guy fanboy and meddling owner. The fans also hate Bruce Allen the president who many regard as a buttkissing toady doing Snyder's bidding. They rightfully have no confidence in Snyder or Allen and vent their frustration in many ways including dogging on draft picks. Many of the posters arbitrarily decided you were a Bruce Allen pick rather then the product of a favorable Scot McCloughan evaluation, a recently fired GM they respected. Did they have any basis to reach that conclusion, no noewhatsover. Ignore them their negativity isn't really about you. Understand these are the same knuckleheads who dogged on Kirk Cousins, the last Redskin fourth round pick from Michigan State. Now these chuckleheads dogging you spend their days on this board arguing whether Cousins deserves to be extended at twenty or twenty five million a year. Kirk ignored the meatheads, worked hard and made the Skins his team. Resolve to do likewise. Molon labe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 21 minutes ago, LD0506 said: Well yes and no. A lot of guys learned "tough" early on, hard lessons a lot of the time, and used those to build something with. Others didn't. Many people just never get the chance to learn "tough", and I don't think its genetic so it does need to be learned. Take a couple guys like Allen and Anderson, they know tough, they've been coached tough, they understand how to use tough as part of their game. They can set an example, kinda mentor tough to others that haven't had it. Those guys may never be able to teach tough, but they might learn to play tough. In most groups of people most follow, need to follow, crave someone or something to follow, and if we can get a couple guys to get tough as a following, there might be hope for us all. In all my years playing competitive sports I never met anyone who learned to be tough. They either were or they weren't. I met a few who learned how to act tough but when the chips were down reverted to type. I think it's one of those things you are born with. Or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsFanInSanAntonio Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 We need to hire this guy to teach Nicholson toughness then ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 1 hour ago, MartinC said: I don't think you can coach toughness. You either have it or you don't. Not to pick on you but what does this even mean? Reports yesterday said both that he could and could not tackle, that he could play FS and could not, that he had range and did not. Others say he was a willing tackler but not a hard hitter, or a form tackler. I feel like there is so much speculation and stuff because mocks didn't have him going in the 4th, but mocks didn't have Allen going at 17 or Brantley dropping to the 6th. I have been reading up on him because he's the most controversial of the early picks, but he's exactly the kind of player I was calling for, a player who wasn't a finished product in school but has the frame and tools to develop into a legit starter in this league. For all we know this could have been a top N safety for us and we could have known that a team like Atlanta could have been about to pick him and just made the pick. I don't think Desmond King or Xavier Woods are world beaters either - people that were being called for at our pick, and there even more likely to have trouble covering TEs because of their small size, which was our main problem for the last how many years. These are some of my posts from the draft thread. Quote Nicholson improved to a team second best 86 tackles and garnered Honorable Mention All-Big Ten Honors as a junior despite regressing to just one interception. He again played his best against stronger competition like Wisconsin, Penn State and BYU. More importantly, he substantially improved in his angles, and tackling became more of a strength than a weakness, all he was still inconsistent at times. https://www.google.com/amp/www.theonlycolors.com/platform/amp/2017/4/29/15478170/2017-nfl-draft-scouting-report-montae-nicholson Quote David Jones is a guy who may be comparable but Nicholson is clearly better. Same goes with other guys like Jason Thompson. But we got a guy with the size and speed of Malik Hooker in the 4th round. I'm not saying he has the same instincts but if we can teach him anything he can be a steal in the draft. The fact that there were so few people with his numbers coulda made it a difficult decision to make, but I can see the comparison to Matt Jones or some other combine warriors who did and didn't work out in the past. Hopefully he can be better than the guys we had playing safety last year and improve this defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Its just strange that we drafted so many mean big monsters, then right in the middle, a ballerina. Something doesn't add up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: Its just strange that we drafted so many mean big monsters, then right in the middle, a ballerina. Something doesn't add up. He also said "I'm a physical player who likes to hit people." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsPassion4Life Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 I bet he starts the season on PUP and depending on whether he's needed or not, may stay on IR all year......I can't see them cutting a 4th round pick, so that's a good option if he doesn't show much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftech Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 20 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: Its just strange that we drafted so many mean big monsters, then right in the middle, a ballerina. Something doesn't add up. Sometimes it's hard to push back on a perceived media narrative. We shall see. Hail Em Up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 28 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said: He also said "I'm a physical player who likes to hit people." Yeah, I dont get it. Physically he more than checks every box. He did say he lacks confidence. Maybe a year on IR is exactly what he needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said: Not to pick on you but what does this even mean? Reports yesterday said both that he could and could not tackle, that he could play FS and could not, that he had range and did not. Others say he was a willing tackler but not a hard hitter, or a form tackler. I feel like there is so much speculation and stuff because mocks didn't have him going in the 4th, but mocks didn't have Allen going at 17 or Brantley dropping to the 6th. Its not a comment on Nicholson, who I know nothing about. It's a general comment in response to the idea that a player can learn toughness from other players or coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlesnake88 Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Being a starting safety at MSU, I'm not buying him being a patsy. He might not be a Ray Lewis psychopath. But he's huge(for position), athletic and hits hard. Im all for giving the guy a chance, he was a 4th round pick, not a 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Interesting the debate on his toughness. There's a lot of power on contact on tape. Along with being put on his ass plenty it's true. (Unless we're talking about all the time missed injured?). Far more concerning to me, the main reason I thought he'd go undrafted, is he's a reactionary player. And he reacts poorly. By the time he's worked things out, he's either taken a poor angle and missed the target. Or he's hesitated and he's been blown by. You CAN'T hesitate on the football field. In the pros that will kill you every time. And Nicholson hesitates a LOT. Terrible pick whatever way it's dressed up in an otherwise pretty stellar draft. But the question still needs to be legitimately asked 'Why in the 4th?' when we could of gotten another great starting calibre piece to help from day one. Instead of getting a guy who if he doesn't show on teams pre-season will be struggling to make the 53 all things being equal. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonez3 Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Every person on this board is an idiot if they think a kid can play safety at MSU and be soft. I rarely do the call out thing, but holy crap, idiots. Watch his film, I'll bet right now that if healthy, he's a starter on special teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 6 hours ago, Veryoldschool said: Montae, If you made the mistake of reading this board please ignore the negative comments made by all these know nothing sadsacks that have never seen you play and don't really know anything about you accept a snippet they read on a website written by a guy that probably doesn't know much either. Forget about all of this nonesense because it doesn't have anything to do with you. Redskin fans hate the owner, Dan Snyder, who is a doofus turned rich guy fanboy and meddling owner. The fans also hate Bruce Allen the president who many regard as a buttkissing toady doing Snyder's bidding. They rightfully have no confidence in Snyder or Allen and vent their frustration in a many of ways including dogging on draft picks. Many of the posters arbitrarily decided you were a Bruce Allen pick rather then the product of a favorable Scot McCloughan evaluation, ignore them the negativity isn't really about you. Ignore them and understand these are the same knuckleheads who dogged on Kirk Cousins, the last Redskin fourth round pick from Michigan State. Now the chuckleheads dogging you spend their days on this board arguing whether Cousins deserves to be extended at twenty or twenty five million a year. Kirk ignored the meatheads, worked hard and made the Skins his team. Resolve to do likewise. Molon labe. Like the same people who are praising every other pick, despite it also being the same people in the draft room? This makes no sense whatsoever considering the entire tone of this board on every pick. If you dont like peoples criticism of one guy, fine, but dont pretend something false, like that this is a vendetta of people that are pooh-poohing every draft pick, because right now hes the only one people are down on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 3 hours ago, MartinC said: Its not a comment on Nicholson, who I know nothing about. It's a general comment in response to the idea that a player can learn toughness from other players or coaches. Agreed. It's football. You either are wiling to hit someone and play in pain. Or you are not. It cracks me up the number of fans on this board who have never even played pop warner talking about "toughness". If you have not played football you have NO IDEA what the game is about. It looks pretty on TV. But make no mistake. It is a game of attrition. You play through pain or you dont play. That is the bottom line. I have plenty of friends who wouldnt play the game because of the broken fingers and toes. The bruised shins and forearms. And every other nagging pain that goes with the game. But the reward for winning while going through all of that is priceless. Bottom line as you said. You are either tough or you are not. You can either live with the pain or you cant. You ether LOVE football or you dont. There is no in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jericho Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 I get the risk-reward with Nicholson. I'm not sure it'll work out, but then again most 4th rounders don't become All Pros. So the risk isn't that great. At a minimum Nicholson should be a fine special teamer. And that's all the team really needs in year 1. They're not projecting him to be a starter. And if you're not starting, being a special teams contributors is enough for a roster spot. Beyond that, the general book seems to be his a tools over production player with the hope you can "coach him up". That's probably a bit overstated though. Nicholson was a 2 year starter for Michigan State (and started some in his freshman year), one of the nation's top programs. He also did not redshirt and declared early, so he's pretty young at only 21 (for comparison, Moreau is already 23. So is Chase Roullier. So is Josh Harvey-Clemons. Garett Bolles, the Broncos first round pick, is already 24). Whether that means anything remains to be seen. But I always wonder if younger players have more development in front of them given their age. We'll see if any of this pans out for Nicholson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 9 hours ago, MartinC said: I don't think you can coach toughness. You either have it or you don't. I agree, you either want to stick your nose in there, or you don't. That being said, If "Mr. Anderson" pulls me aside and says I "might need to start being more aggressive or bad things might happen". I might start knock the tar out of people. I would not want "Mr. Anderson" to ever have another conversation with me about that ever again. That dude is a tone setting mother****er if I have ever seen one. Edit: And I have been with some seriously insane tone setting mother****ers. My Drill Sargent in the Army was an Airbone Sniper that got dropped into Baghdad, behind enemy lines, with no extraction planned, on Day 1 of Desert Storm. His mission, without going into details because it was classified at the time, was to kill Saddam Hussein in that barrage of gunfire that everyone watched on CNN. He broke his ankle during a fitness test while I was at boot camp. He didn't get it check out for 2 weeks and missed nothing "Mr. Anderson" reminds me of Drill Sargent Hess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted May 1, 2017 Author Share Posted May 1, 2017 Interesting nugget from Nicholson's ESPN 980 interview (DJ Swearinger was also being interviewed at the same time which was pretty cool). But he said that Torrian Gray, our new DB coach, recruited him out of high school when he was at VT and so he had a feeling we were really interested in him. Said he talked a lot with Gray at the combine so he was actually not surprised we drafted him. Thought that was interesting and may answer the question about why he was high on our board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommDownMan Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 I read soft or instinct related as playing on his heels a bit. That could be coaching which can be taught. Time will tell, but you guys take a few words and turn it into the worst scenarios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stp240 Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Nice showcase of Nicholson in this game. He is #9. Nothing soft here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanskins Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 1 hour ago, stp240 said: Nice showcase of Nicholson in this game. He is #9. Nothing soft here. cool cut up...yeah and doesnt look too indecisive either /liked the CB #2 too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 We picked this guys instead of a NT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANONYMOUS SOURCE. Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Chancellor came to VT with the same aggression/confidence issues out of high school. Torrian Gray molded him pretty well I'd say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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