Bruce Allen, Scot McCloughlan, Jay Gruden, and all that stuff like that there

[Bunny Kelly]

We were a bit of a mess in yr1 when Jay was basically the offensive co-ordinator, he is like our Jason Garrett, the less responsibility he has the better we do (not a good sign)

 

I do wonder if our running woes in Jay's time are he doesn't have an identity, he claims he likes to mix zone & power but does that lead our o-line to be a jack of all trades & master of none? We need to start from scratch & get a few plays that we can do well as opposed to opening up the playbook & basically be rubbish at everything when it comes to the running game 

 

[goskins10]

17 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

80s nostalgia seems to be one of the hot cards to play with Dan.  How about Russ Grimm as the new head coach?   Dump Kirk for whomever Doug handpicks as the next guy.   Replace Callahan with Jacoby.   Maybe honor Gibbs in a major ceremony for the opener of 2018.   We need something exciting. Good times back with these moves?  Losing the first game is beyond unacceptable.  Heads should roll.   It's time for a dramatic move.  I think 2 first rounders for Garopollo and replacing Jay with Grimm might reignite some needed excitement.   

 

Best comment in the entire thread. Thank you!  Perspective seems to be fleeting in here after a loss.

[Epochalypse]

Didn't see any more appropriate place in the first 3 pages for this so figured this applied to this FO talk discussion.  Mods please move if I am remiss.

 

Per PFT - RG3: I was put in an impossible situation because Mike Shanahan never wanted me

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/09/19/rg3-i-was-put-in-an-impossible-situation-because-mike-shanahan-never-wanted-me/

 

Seems to suggest it wasn't Shanny having final say...

 

Discuss as you see fit.

 

 

[Jacoby66forHOF]

Some context needed for the above linked PFT article.  Santana Moss went on 106.7 and said Griffin took credit for getting the Shanahan's fired.  

 

Quote

“Come 2013, all of [a sudden] it’s a whole big dilemma in the locker room, in the meeting rooms, and just in our building, that, you know, the man, Mike Shanahan, and RG is not seeing eye to eye,” Moss told Dukes of the fractured relationship between Shanahan and Griffin during the quarterback’s second season. “You know, we don’t know. We’re players. We sit back and let things be done. That’s not something that I partake in, so it’s not nothing that I’m interested in. And before you know it, RG’s not playing. … I’m not sure if that was [Griffin’s] whole plan, but when the whole thing went about, we hear that Mike Shanahan’s not coming back the next year, then we hear the quarterback like, ‘Hey, mmhmm.’ Like basically saying that, ‘Hey, you got me out of here not playing last year the last few games, then that’s what happens. You get fired.’ You can’t do that. One thing I just shared with you, God don’t like ugly. The little credit that [Griffin] did take for saying, ‘They didn’t like what I was doing’ or ‘They benched me and not allowing me to play,’ that’s what happens.”

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2017/09/19/god-dont-like-ugly-santana-moss-says-rgiii-gloated-about-mike-shanahans-firing/?utm_term=.afa539ce2cf0

 

Then Griffin chimed in.

[justice98]

Santana's not a great storyteller.

[justice98]

On 9/15/2017 at 5:27 AM, Bunny Kelly said:

I do wonder if our running woes in Jay's time are he doesn't have an identity, he claims he likes to mix zone & power but does that lead our o-line to be a jack of all trades & master of none? We need to start from scratch & get a few plays that we can do well as opposed to opening up the playbook & basically be rubbish at everything when it comes to the running game 

 

 

I wonder that as well, but then I also wonder what Callahan's role is in formulating that identity in the run game.  At some point an OL/running game guru should be able impress upon Gruden what's best for the unit they have and how maximize it's effectiveness.  

 

At first, I thought tge zone/power mix was just a concession to the personnel left over from Shanahan and that eventually, they would be a power run team.  

[Momma There Goes That Man]

35 minutes ago, justice98 said:

Santana's not a great storyteller.

 

Yeah Griff should just be happy someone more articulate didn't get on this interview and "betray" him. 

[SkinsFTW]

RG3: “Put in an impossible situation w/ a coach who never wanted me,” Griffin wrote. “Made players like Santana Moss a believer through hard work, film study. Showing up early, leaving late, putting in the extra hours, staying after practice & getting extra work in. We won the division that year.”

 

I guess the "Shanahan had full control" narrative is now proven false as well.

[Wyvern]

I remember some of Griffin's pressers.  He had a way of wording things that subtly put blame on Shanahan and others.  I remember being really surprised by that -- my first clue that for some reason  Griffin felt he was elevated enough he could do something like that.

 

I suspect Snyder didn't help the situation.  

 

Oddly Kyle Shanhan was probably the only coach who made an effort to tailor the plays to suit what Griffin did best.  When Gruden's arrived, it was clear that Griffin wouldn't fit well in his system.

 

Sometimes I wonder if Griffin had wound up in Seattle instead of Wilson, how far he might have gone.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

RG3: “Put in an impossible situation w/ a coach who never wanted me,” Griffin wrote. “Made players like Santana Moss a believer through hard work, film study. Showing up early, leaving late, putting in the extra hours, staying after practice & getting extra work in. We won the division that year.”

 

I guess the "Shanahan had full control" narrative is now proven false as well.

 

What hit me most interesting on his comments was if you combine RG3's comments with Reid's article where he quoted Shanny -- they both converge on the same point that the trade was Dan's baby.   Shanny's story is he wanted RG3 but not at that price.   RG3's narrative in a back door way backs that story.

 

If so the idea that Dan doesn't involve himself in personnel decisions is thwarted once again.  I buy the narrative that he doesn't involve himself the way he used to but it seems hard to believe that he doesn't involve himself at all -- this being another example of it.  

 

Fortunately for Dan he now has a front office structure where he doesn't have to override anyone since no one is technically in charge of the FO from a bottom line standpoint aside from Bruce.  And I don't get the vibe that Bruce has survived as long as he has by saying no to Dan. 

 

Based on different stories over the years, Dan doesn't exactly have the midas touch on QBs,   Narratives included bringing Jeff George to replace Brad Johnson. I recall one narrative that drafting Patrick Ramsey was his brain child.  The McNabb trade.  Maybe the RG3 trade, too.  And while I was in favor of some of these ideas at the time -- I am just a fan, I'm not a scout.  Neither is Dan.  And that's the point.  But boy is that dude's instincts royally off as for the QB position in particular.

 

Next time Dan you have an instinct about the QB position or any other personnel position, please just stay out of the way.  Or Dan if you insist on interfering then at least just go with the opposite of your instinct.  I like our chances better that way. 

 

 

 

 

[LetThePointsSoar]

1 hour ago, Wyvern said:

 

Sometimes I wonder if Griffin had wound up in Seattle instead of Wilson, how far he might have gone.

 

I think on the flip side, had Griffin ended up anywhere but here, I wonder how far the Shanahans could have taken us. 

 

But I digress. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

14 minutes ago, LetThePointsSoar said:

 

I think on the flip side, had Griffin ended up anywhere but here, I wonder how far the Shanahans could have taken us. 

 

But I digress. 

 

Man...if we had had just stayed at 6 and taken Tannehill or hell, somebody else at 6 and grabbed a Cousins or Wilson later...smh..

[SkinsFTW]

17 minutes ago, LetThePointsSoar said:

 

I think on the flip side, had Griffin ended up anywhere but here, I wonder how far the Shanahans could have taken us. 

 

But I digress. 

 

I've always believed that Shanahan never wanted to trade away years of picks for a project QB, said it here, and was then blasted repeatedly by the "Dan isn't involved" crew and informed that I'm "a conspiracy theorist", but it just didn't make sense. But I was against the Shanahan hire even as far back as when rumors spread when Gibbs was still here or right after that Snyder was talking to Shanahan. He just won't ever do the defense right and he proved it by immediately hiring a scrub like Hazlett.

 

Shanahan was a great OC who got a HC position which happened to include Elway and he made a great decision on Terrell Davis. We know his running game works, he made it work here with backs that no other team even wanted like Hightower and a few other random scrubs.

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Fortunately for Dan he now has a front office structure where he doesn't have to override anyone since no one is technically in charge of the FO from a bottom line standpoint aside from Bruce.  And I don't get the vibe that Bruce has survived as long as he has by saying no to Dan. 

 

 

 

Exactly, and he's had this same setup since the day he fired Vinny and hired Allen, which just happens to be the same setup he had with Vinny since he fired Schottenheimer.

 

When he hired Allen I blasted the hire based on what Allen had been in the past under Al Davis, basically the same thing except Davis wasn't hiding who was really running things. But Allen did get some of the credit, hence his Executive of the Year title when they went to the SB.

[Bunny Kelly]

Does this mean we want to re-sign Cousins now as they flip side is Dan picking our QB again in the draft???

[skins island connection]

10 hours ago, Wyvern said:

I remember some of Griffin's pressers.  He had a way of wording things that subtly put blame on Shanahan and others.  I remember being really surprised by that -- my first clue that for some reason  Griffin felt he was elevated enough he could do something like that.

 

I suspect Snyder didn't help the situation.  

 

Oddly Kyle Shanhan was probably the only coach who made an effort to tailor the plays to suit what Griffin did best.  When Gruden's arrived, it was clear that Griffin wouldn't fit well in his system.

 

Sometimes I wonder if Griffin had wound up in Seattle instead of Wilson, how far he might have gone.

 

Griffin was a gifted athlete but a limited QB. Sure, he did great his rookie year; most highly touted college QBs rookie season in the NFL, hec, any college player who was very high profile, made a splash in the league. But in many cases it was a 1 year splash, then small little wakes after.

 

I liked the concept of Griffin; actually ANYONE except Grossman behind center would be an improvement. But Griffin was limited in his abilities to play in the pocket. When things went well, the spotlight was on him and he liked it; it boosted his ego. When things went wrong, he deflected the reasons to others, pointing the finger indirectly at coaching for losses.

 

If Griffin was at least a half ass decent QB, he'd still be in Cleveland. He's not. He played poorly there, and he had a few weapons to work with; not much, but some, and he couldn't get the job done there. Kyle's only play was to make chicken salad out of chicken ****, and it worked until defenses figured out how to stop it, then he was essentially toast.

 

If Griffin had went to Seattle, I doubt things would be any different. His skillset was limited, he may have done a little better, but I still think the results would be the same.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 hours ago, Bunny Kelly said:

Does this mean we want to re-sign Cousins now as they flip side is Dan picking our QB again in the draft???

Even the greatest talent evaluators typically have more misses than hits at the QB position.  I'm not sure we even have a great talent evaluator in Ashburn.  But the real point here is that it's hard to find a legit QB in the draft even if you have a great evaluator making the selection.  Dan having a say in it only makes it that much worse. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just for nostalgia reasons  its not really a pattern with Dan.  People are just mired in things that happened decades ago.  I'm sure the idea with this new FO situation is for Dan to be hands off.   I could easily do 10 pages worth of this type of material.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/30/steve-spurrier-snyder-wouldnt-let-me-pick-the-quarterback/

Former Washington coach Steve Spurrier says team owner Dan Snyder meddled in personnel decisions to the point where Spurrier couldn’t even pick the quarterback, even though the whole reason Spurrier was hired was that his passing offense had been so successful at Florida.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/redskins/longterm/2003/popup/article.html

"Put his [Cerrato's] work history on paper," Snyder said, "and you will have a smile on your face."

 

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/bring-ocho-cinco-to-the-circus/article/71857

Redskins owner Dan Snyder is back in business with stacks of cash to spend and draft picks to swap. No more listening to departed coach Joe Gibbs’ common sense on building a team. Snyder is now free to do what he loves most — wheel and deal.

The Redskins desperately need a tall receiver. Chad Johnson desperately wants lots of money, which Snyder will offer gladly along with at least a first-round pick plus a second or third to the Bengals.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2015/02/18/mike-shanahan-says-daniel-snyder-led-the-push-for-donovan-mcnabb/?utm_term=.5eae1985fadf

“Didn’t want to give up the draft choices, but we wound up doing that,” Shanahan said. “And the decision was made, and I think mainly from Dan. Even though Bruce orchestrated the trade. I think Dan was the guy that really wanted Donovan the most.”

 

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/04/01/dan-snyder-once-pleaded-for-mike-shanahan-to-sign-randy-moss/

Paulsen: So Shanahan, I remember talking to one time, about Dan Snyder and how much he’d changed. Remember when Randy Moss became available, going back a few years ago? I think it was after the Titans cut him or something like that.

The last time he signed with somebody, apparently Dan Snyder went to Shanahan and was like standing on the table, like, ‘You have to bring this guy in! We need Randy Moss!’

Cakes: When he had nothing left.

Paulsen: Correct.

Cakes: I mean, it was clear that Randy Moss had nothing left in the tank to offer.

Paulsen: And the way this story was told to me is, Shanahan was basically like, ‘No. He’s not good at football. He can’t help us anymore.’ And basically Snyder was like, ‘I want this guy!’ And Shanahan said, ‘No. Leave my office. We’re not doing this.’

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/redskins/longterm/2003/popup/article.html

But neither Norv nor Marty was Danny's biggest gaffe. As the past five weeks reveal again, Brad Johnson owns that distinction.

Johnson was the Redskins' starting quarterback in 1999 and for much of the 2000 season. He guided Washington to the second round of the 1999 playoffs, the franchise's first postseason appearance in seven years, and earned a trip to the Pro Bowl.

But Snyder didn't appreciate Johnson's subtle, cerebral ways. He wanted a live-armed quarterback slinging fastballs downfield. He wanted Jeff George.

Snyder's edict was ruinous. George was awful, and Johnson headed for Tampa Bay, where in 2002 he helped the Buccaneers win a Super Bowl.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2015/08/20/dan-snyder-needs-to-seriously-work-on-his-dance-moves/?utm_term=.fa42b1a142de

Dancing is a crucial part of bowling. If you’re not in the PBA and you go to bowling alleys and don’t dance to the music after a big shot, it’s time to re-evaluate. With that in mind, let’s take a look at this video from May 2014, which features Redskins owner Daniel Snyder and quarterback Robert Griffin III at Lucky Strike Gallery Place. Because there is a lot going on here.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/30/AR2009093004775.html

He operates from behind a phalanx of security, proxies and media managers, routinely declining to comment and be accountable. He wants all the fun when they win and none of the blame when they lose. The most damning anecdote I've heard yet about Snyder came this week from his former player-confidante LaVar Arrington, who described how Snyder would stand outside the locker room and shake hands with players when they won, but glared and declined to offer a hand when they lost.

[Burgold]

16 hours ago, LetThePointsSoar said:

 

I think on the flip side, had Griffin ended up anywhere but here, I wonder how far the Shanahans could have taken us. 

 

But I digress. 

I don't think we'd have wound up anywhere good. If you look at the Shanny's pre-RGIII and post RGIII, the Redskins were a four win team. The defense was horrific, Morris was really only great when paired with RGIII, and the passing game was okay. RGIII's rookie year was the only year the Shanny teams looked remotely okay. Before that and after, the team was not average, not inconsistent, but absolutely terrible.

[carex]

Redskins fans hate for Dan Snyder gives any disgruntled former player or coach an automatic excuse.  I loved RG3 and think mistakes made by the coaching staff were his big problem.  But I also think based on Shanny's personality and his actions after Elway in Denver that he doesn't want any QB who would upstage him.   Also, Snyder pleading with Shanny to do something and not getting his way is a point in favor of the idea that Mike Shannahan had full control. And I'd like to remind people that the QBs Spurrier wanted to choose between were Shane Matthews and Danny Wuerffel

[HOF44]

Ok how in the hell did I miss that Dan/RGIII bowling video the first go round????  It's gold, solid gold!!

[dyst]

On 9/19/2017 at 10:18 PM, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

Man...if we had had just stayed at 6 and taken Tannehill or hell, somebody else at 6 and grabbed a Cousins or Wilson later...smh..

I got one even better. If we didn't win that meaningless game late in the year, we probably would have had the 2nd overall pick to begin with and wouldn't even need to trade.

[dyst]

Oh my god that video of Snyder and RG3 bowling is so embarrassing. Don't get me wrong, Snyder seems like a likable dude in the video but ouch, seems so out of touch. RG3 is with his girl and Snyder keeps looking back for his approval. Plus, just reeks of favoritism. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Man, that video.  I cannot believe that's the first time I've seen it.  I remember the stories about Dan hanging out with Robert but never saw it.  I think Kyle Shanahan said it best, "do you blame a 23 year old for that, or the people who allowed him?" in reference to Griffin calling his own shots about playcalling. For as much as I dislike Shanahan, that must've been some real **** to deal with. 

[beachboy757]

Dan Snyder was probably drunk asf in that bowling video. I don't know how that video slipped by many of us? That had to be before the knee injury because after that it was a total mess and that video would have been in full rotation during all the drama.

[carex]

7 hours ago, dyst said:

I got one even better. If we didn't win that meaningless game late in the year, we probably would have had the 2nd overall pick to begin with and wouldn't even need to trade.

 

one game wasn't a difference of four spots