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The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

Ron78

By Ron78
in The Stadium

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HogsVa7

HogsVa7

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

RG3 can not read a NFL defense, go through progressions or throw to a spot. He was going to be exposed sooner or later. It just happened to be sooner. The fact we drafted Kirk in the same draft ended up being the best thing we could have done.

I agree with everything you said, it's just if he didn't get hurt I think he can develop to be a better QB. That injury hurt him physically and mentally. We're luck to have Cousins and he's going to do great things for us imo.

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Morneblade

Morneblade

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, RedskinsVa7 said:

I agree with everything you said, it's just if he didn't get hurt I think he can develop to be a better QB. That injury hurt him physically and mentally. We're luck to have Cousins and he's going to do great things for us imo.

 

No, it just made it so he couldn't just run after his first read was covered. He was never going to learn how to go through progressions and do it quickly. Which is why he failed in Cleveland, with a very good QB coach helping him. All that injury did was take away the one thing that he could use to cover up his weaknesses and expose him. He was never going to learn to be able to do those things. and I'm not even sure how hard he even worked on them. He was too busy with promotional stuff and catch phrases.

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Momma There Goes That Man

Momma There Goes That Man

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, trueskins2012 said:

kirk is decent, but if kirk is traded, would it be viable to actually resign rg3 to a cheaper contract and start him over mccoy since he kinda knows the offense? 

 

The reason he isn't here now is because after 2 full seasons he still didn't know the offense lol. 

 

among about a hundred other problems he brings. 

 

you were given a warning. Just let the RG3 stuff go man damn

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SpacePenguin

SpacePenguin

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, trueskins2012 said:

kirk is decent, but if kirk is traded, would it be viable to actually resign rg3 to a cheaper contract and start him over mccoy since he kinda knows the offense? 

 

Yes, it would. I also think it would be a good idea to bring in Albert Haynesworth for a physical. He always did have a high motor.

 

Also, I think Deion Sanders is a FA. Kick the tires? Vet min?

 

Seriously, I LOVE this poster. Stop the GM "search" now. We have our guy.

 

PS- Is Adam Archuletta on the market? If so grab him up. I also heard Anthony Mix could jump. Bring him in.

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Mr. Sinister

Mr. Sinister

Posted
Posted
Just now, Morneblade said:

 

No ****. It's like being on a Chargers forum talking about how we should give Ryan Leaf another shot.:lol:

 

1 minute ago, SpacePenguin said:

 

Yes, it would. I also think it would be a good idea to bring in Albert Haynesworth for a physical. He always did have a high motor.

 

Also, I think deion sanders is a FA. Kick the tires? Vet min?

 

Seriously, I LOVE this poster.

 

I am legitimately concerned...

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XxSpearheadxX

XxSpearheadxX

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, RedskinsVa7 said:

I agree with everything you said, it's just if he didn't get hurt I think he can develop to be a better QB. That injury hurt him physically and mentally. We're luck to have Cousins and he's going to do great things for us imo.

He didn't ever put in the work toread defenses and play QB. I wanted rg3 to work out as much as anyone but he is THE reason he failed, no one else. 

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Gregpeck99

Gregpeck99

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

The reason Kirk has not been signed to a LTD is because he hasn't already been signed to a LTD?

Yup Cal ... the FO must know or believe something about Kirk that is holding them back ... you think?

 

 

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Gregpeck99

Gregpeck99

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Morneblade said:

Mostly because it's not accurate.

That's your opinion ... worthless to prove the point being discussed ... namely whether Trueskin2012 had the Freakin right to express his opinion without being trashed by Conn.

 

You must still be woozy on meds.

 

Get better already!

 

 

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Gregpeck99

Gregpeck99

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, trueskins2012 said:

kirk is decent, but if kirk is traded, would it be viable to actually resign rg3 to a cheaper contract and start him over mccoy since he kinda knows the offense? 

Its always viable to get more bang for the buck ... as long as you don't sacrifice results.

 

And there is a minority among us (you included) who are of the opinion that McCoy brings as much to the table as Kirk and is a whole lot less cheaper because of circumstance only.

 

I applaud you Trueskin for sticking to your guns with the lone exception that I don't think the resuscitation of RG as a Skin is realistic. 

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BatteredFanSyndrome

BatteredFanSyndrome

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Gregpeck99 said:

Its always viable to get more bang for the buck ... as long as you don't sacrifice results.

 

And there is a minority among us (you included) who are of the opinion that McCoy brings as much to the table as Kirk and is a whole lot less cheaper because of circumstance only.

 

 

If by minority, you literally mean the two of you.  Just some advice, but if your opinion aligns with that of this Trueskin character - you might want to do some research, soul-searching,etc. to get on the right path.

 

You can't make comments like McCoy brings as much to the table as Cousins and have people actually take you seriously.

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goskins10

goskins10

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Gregpeck99 said:

Yup Cal ... the FO must know or believe something about Kirk that is holding them back ... you think?

 

 

 

Going back to what you call rational is just not rational at all:

 

1. You stated Kirk has not taken the team deep into the playoffs. - He has only been the starter 2 yrs During that time he has had 2 of the worst defenses in the NFL to work with. That is not getting you deep into the POs I don't care how good the QB is. Look at GB. Rogers (more on him next) and they got torched because they could not stop Atl. Would it be nice for him to have won a PO game with this team? Sure. But you can't look at the situation rationally and say he is the reason the team has not won a PO in the last 2 yrs.

 

2. You stated he is not worth Rogers money - This shows a complete lack of any rational understanding of NFL and specifically NFL QB contracts. Right now as we speak in terms of this seasons salary - Andrew Luck, Drew Brees, Kirk Cousins and Joe Flacco all make more than Aaron Rogers. Ben R. and Russell Wilson are within a few hundred dollars. So are all those bad contracts since Rogers is better? How about Brady? He is 13th behind all times greats like Matt Ryan and Carson Palmer. This is a QB driven league with a salary CAP that goes up quite a bit every year. The later the contract the higher it is going to be. Trying to assign a salary level directly to performance - which would be kind of interesting - is never going to happen. Kirk will get a contract making him the highest paid player, for  an NFL minute. Within a yr or less he will no longer being higher paid. He has not shown yet to be the same caliber QB as AR, TB, or the other sure to be hall of fame QBs. But that's not what dirves QB contracts. And he still has a lot of time to get there. I posted the statistics for 4 other QBs after the same number of starts Kirk has and he was very close if not better in all categories. Of course you chose to ignore that since it did not fit your narrative.

 

3. The team has not signed Kirk is a LTD yet - They could have let him go last year and saved $20M, yet they tagged Kirk and paid him. They could have let him go this ear. Or at least put the non-exclusive transition tag on Kirk. All 3 of those options could have resulted in him not being here and starting McCoy - for a lot less. Yet at each opportunity to start McCoy for a lot less they have decided to pay Kirk for a lot more.

 

You are applying a cause and effect that is not there. It is a business negotiation. The dead line is July 15th. There is no reason for either side to move from their respective positions until then. And really Kirk has no reason to move. If they get past July 15th, it still does not mean they think McCoy is better. It would mean they do not necessarily think Kirk is the long term answer - a really stupid position IMO - but none the less. This idea that McCoy is almost as good is just not supported by anything rational. If the team actually thought that they would not be paying Kirk $44M over 2 yrs.

 

Last but not least - the problem with your new friend @trueskins2012 is that he trashed Kirk as a person calling him selfish and worse, making broad judgments on his ability without data in an effort to prop his guy. He brought up the tired Robert topic and continues to do so despite @Jumbo warning. I expect it will be an exciting yet brief time on ES for them, but of course it's not my decision. I do know it's one thing to present a position with facts. It's another thing all together to attack the player personally and bring up a tired and quite frankly lame topic that has been hashed, rehashed and rehashed to the point of being nauseating. I loved Robert when he was here and stuck with him through the 2013 season and even part of 2014. But it became clear he would not make the complete transition to the NFL and when they made the move to Kirk it was absolutely the right thing to do. This is just not debatable. 

 

You don't think Kirk is the long term solution. Ok, that's your right. And quite frankly you may be right, but so far most of the reasons you have provided are not based in fact. They are just that you simply do not like him. Again, as a fan that's your right. I hated Jeff George. He could have taken us to a SB and I still would have hated him.

 

But not liking a player does not does not mean the overwhelming data to support that players ability and their potential just goes away, nor does liking a player make them a great player (see Robert).

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The Hangman- C_Hanburger

The Hangman- C_Hanburger

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, RedskinsVa7 said:

The injury to RG3 is what made him decline. If it didn't happen I think he's still our QB doing great things, but that injury hurt him mostly mentally.

RG3 lost the locker room. Lost the team's desire to protect him after throwing them under the bus. The RG-ME was real and destroyed his ability to lead this team. That and his refusal to accept coaching. HE thought he was better than he was and cost a coach his job and almost did the same to Gruden. Glad he's gone..got tired of his pressers.

 

That and he is as fragile as an egg shell

 

 

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Jumbo

Jumbo

Posted
Posted
Quote

He brought up the tired Robert topic and continues to do so despite @Jumbo warning. 

 

 

And now he is no longer with us (see rule 18).

 

Now as I said earlier,  let's move on from the rg3 discussion (if only i had a nickel...).

 

To repeat for any who may be among the challenged, it's not about "censoring views" or "hating" on Mr. Griffin (ridiculous as it  is, there's still a need to point this out, even at this time).

 

If you think it is, please go slam your head against a wall for me as it will please me :D and obviously won't affect you adversely.

 

Also, not as a meany pants, but I've been wondering for awhile if it's time to shut this mess down as we have done with it's progenitors and just await some meaningful new news that can be the base of its own specific Kirk topic. That we're back to talking rg3 may be a confirmation of it being a good idea. Feel free to opine, imma let it set for now. 

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MassSkinsFan

MassSkinsFan

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Jumbo said:

Also, not as a meany pants, but I've been wondering for awhile if it's time to shut this mess down as we have done with it's progenitors and just await some meaningful new news that can be the base of its own specific Kirk topic. That we're back to talking rg3 may be a confirmation of it being a good idea. Feel free to opine, imma let it set for now. 

 

I think we've all stated our positions and provided our evidence (or lack thereof). My vote is to pretend it's 2014 RGIII and bench it.

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Morneblade

Morneblade

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Gregpeck99 said:

That's your opinion ... worthless to prove the point being discussed ... namely whether Trueskin2012 had the Freakin right to express his opinion without being trashed by Conn.

 

You must still be woozy on meds.

 

Get better already!

 

 

 

We already talked about opinions and having an "informed' one. So I pointed out of host of issues with his "opinion" (and yours too, I might add) because they fly in the face of your narrative. By your standards, Kirk is the only person that has any real ability to determine the outcome of the team. Not the play calling, running game or the defense, not the 52 other people on the roster, nor the coaches. it's all his fault.

 

And I have the meds issue? Speaking of that. I seem to be missing a bottle of Oxycodone. Gregory, did you stop by last night? ;)

 

7 hours ago, Gregpeck99 said:

Its always viable to get more bang for the buck ... as long as you don't sacrifice results.

 

And there is a minority among us (you included) who are of the opinion that McCoy brings as much to the table as Kirk and is a whole lot less cheaper because of circumstance only.

 

I applaud you Trueskin for sticking to your guns with the lone exception that I don't think the resuscitation of RG as a Skin is realistic. 

 

Because the numbers show that with McCoy, the results would be sacrificed immensely. That's already been well documented and pointed out. The fact that you don't want to accept this is another issue. I'm kinda surprised you're not on the RGIII (Rex Grossman) bandwagon. I mean, he's not Kirk, so he MUST be better! Or, we could try every recycled Browns QB in the last 15 years. I mean there's only like 300 of them, surely one of them will work out. Brady Quinn, call for you line 1!

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Spearfeather

Spearfeather

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Jumbo said:

 

 

Also, not as a meany pants, but I've been wondering for awhile if it's time to shut this mess down as we have done with it's progenitors and just await some meaningful new news that can be the base of its own specific Kirk topic. That we're back to talking rg3 may be a confirmation of it being a good idea. Feel free to opine, imma let it set for now. 

 

I vote yes. Same cycle over and over again.

 

Pretty sure the RG3 post come from people attempting to provoke some RG3 bashing ( for whatever reason )

Or they come from someone whose fondness for RG3 is greater than their allegiance to the Redskins.

 

 

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