The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[MartinC]

3 hours ago, Tsailand said:

 

 

They did that last year.  With the same player.

 

You know, our franchise QB.  Does that count as high profile?

 

No. While I would have pulled the trigger last year on a deal at around the value of last years tag it was totally reasonable for the Skins to hesitate to commit to a long term deal at that value based one season. But let's not run down that rabbit hole again.

 

Point stands that the Redskins have not been known as a team who hesitated to pay, or even overpay, on contracts in the past. Maybe that's changing, and if it is it might not be a bad thing.

[Tsailand]

17 minutes ago, RedskinsMayne said:

If he breaks his leg and blows his knee this year under the franchise tag he might only get 8-12 next year,

 

Completely incorrect.  Once he was healed and on the open market he would command starter money: 23M+/year. 

 

The guaranteed money would be lower because of the risk to the team that picks him up.

[desertbeagle85]

1 hour ago, carex said:

,

 

did you ever negotiate?

 

'Well Kirk, we could pay you 24 million this year, but if you agree to this deal we will potentially pay you 100 million over 5 with more than 24 guarenteed to you

 

By the sounds of things these morons in the front office haven't ever negotiated either.

 

 

[RedskinsMayne]

1 hour ago, Tsailand said:

 

Completely incorrect.  Once he was healed and on the open market he would command starter money: 23M+/year. 

 

The guaranteed money would be lower because of the risk to the team that picks him up.

 

 

brodenskee, the only money that matters is guaranteed money. 50 mill vs nothin.  

 

Also, i fixed the post to more accurately describe reality.

[RedskinsMayne]

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

 

No. While I would have pulled the trigger last year on a deal at around the value of last years tag it was totally reasonable for the Skins to hesitate to commit to a long term deal at that value based one season. But let's not run down that rabbit hole again.

 

Point stands that the Redskins have not been known as a team who hesitated to pay, or even overpay, on contracts in the past. Maybe that's changing, and if it is it might not be a bad thing.

 

 

yeah, maybe. but, why go cheap on your franchise qb....

[MartinC]

5 minutes ago, RedskinsMayne said:

 

 

yeah, maybe. but, why go cheap on your franchise qb....

 

The team are committed to paying him $24M this coming season. That's not cheap.

[Peregrine]

57 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

The team are committed to paying him $24M this coming season. That's not cheap.

Then why arent they willing to pay him $24 million every season?

[wit33]

Kirk is lauded for his business like approach (going off this make believe market value) and Bruce gets destroyed in here for the same.

 

Get'm Bruce! 

[markmills67]

There is a website that I go on called newsnowredskins, and one of the reporters is saying the Redskins have offered Cousin's a 5 year deal. I am hoping it is true. Anybody else know anything about it?

 

HTTR 

[Bang]

i don't like it. A signing now opens potential trades prior to the draft for picks.

I want Kirk signed and kept, not signed and traded. 

If they have offered market value, then i am very nervous.

if not, then maybe not so nervous,, because if he won't agree to it with us, then he won't agree to it to be traded,,, i'd hope.

Interesting to see what happens. If he signs a lowball, it'll signal to me he wants out and they've agreed to a trade.

If he doesn't, the Redskins can't just let it sit there and be their only offer like last year

 

~Bang

[Skinsinparadise]

Redskins have shown they are willing to date Kirk at whatever price it will take but not marry as of yet at that same price. 

 

Kirk's side have made it crystal clear that the parameters of the dating set the parameters of the marriage.  Kirk has more or less implied this and ditto McCartney his agent.   

 

To date Kirk for the next 2 seasons.  Is at least $52 million guaranteed in the first two years.  So that's what they want or so they allude to and reporters suggest it would take to get it done.  They show that they'd pay as much as $24 million a year to date him.  So they want at least $24 million a year.

 

As Al Galdi likes to suggest this isn't a typical negotiating where there is a back and forth.  On this one, Kirk is fine with a LTC not happening.  As Albert Breer said yesterday, Kirk he'd bet would love to hit the open market as a FA for a big pay day among other reasons.   So as Breer suggested, to get Kirk in the fold you got to blow him away with an offer, and he is unlikely going to haggle with the Redskins for less than what he wants.

 

This is all intuitive to me.  So IMO this negotiation is purely about when and if Bruce decides to offer Kirk a market deal.   The idea that Bruce offered him a 5 year deal isn't news, am presuming that's still the 20 million a year deal.   As Breer, said the new contracts for QBs in the mold of Andrew Luck likely set the market for Kirk.  

 

So I'd guess for a 5 year contract:  120 million.   75 million or so guaranteed.  front loaded with $52 million guaranteed or close to that in the first two seasons. 

 

Seems like Keim thinks on the table right now is 100 million for 5 years.  Low guaranteed money.  If I recall either he and someone else made an educated guess that it's at 40 million guaranteed and not front loaded.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Redskins have shown they are willing to date Kirk at whatever price it will take but not marry as of yet at that same price. 

 

Kirk's side have made it crystal clear that the parameters of the dating set the parameters of the marriage.  Kirk has more or less implied this and ditto McCartney his agent.   

 

To date Kirk for the next 2 seasons.  Is at least $52 million guaranteed in the first two years.  So that's what they want or so they allude to and reporters suggest it would take to get it done.  They show that they'd pay as much as $24 million a year to date him.  So they want at least $24 million a year.

 

As Al Galdi likes to suggest this isn't a typical negotiating where there is a back and forth.  On this one, Kirk is fine with a LTC not happening.  As Albert Breer said yesterday, Kirk he'd bet would love to hit the open market as a FA for a big pay day among other reasons.   So as Breer suggested, to get Kirk in the fold you got to blow him away with an offer, and he is unlikely going to haggle with the Redskins for less than what he wants.

 

This is all intuitive to me.  So IMO this negotiation is purely about when and if Bruce decides to offer Kirk a market deal.   The idea that Bruce offered him a 5 year deal isn't news, am presuming that's still the 20 million a year deal.   As Breer, said the new contracts for QBs in the mold of Andrew Luck likely set the market for Kirk.  

 

So I'd guess for a 5 year contract:  120 million.   75 million or so guaranteed.  front loaded with $52 million guaranteed or close to that in the first two seasons. 

 

Seems like Keim thinks on the table right now is 100 million for 5 years.  Low guaranteed money.  If I recall either he and someone else made an educated guess that it's at 40 million guaranteed and not front loaded.

 

 

 

 

 

 

SIP, the person Keim was referencing was an agent and here's his tweet concerning the $40 mill: 

Joel Corry‏ @corryjoel 15h15 hours ago

Joel Corry Retweeted Rich Tandler

Structure is everything. Not a serious Kirk Cousins offer if less than $40M fully GTD at signing (Josh Norman-$36.5M fully GTD at signing).

[ThomasRoane]

5 hours ago, wit33 said:

Kirk is lauded for his business like approach (going off this make believe market value) and Bruce gets destroyed in here for the same.

 

Get'm Bruce! 

 

Kirk has a lot of good publicity and is seen as a choir boy.  Bruce Allen is getting roasted by all but a few fans who will never like Kirk because he is the other guy.  Bruce suffers from the old ID10+ error that is prevalent among the average computer user in society.  He fails to recognize that he has no leverage financially and virtually zero support from the media and most of the fan base.  He also works for an owner who won't hesitate to fire his butt if season ticket sales drop dramatically.

 

Yeah...get'm Bruce

[TheGreek1973]

11 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

No. While I would have pulled the trigger last year on a deal at around the value of last years tag it was totally reasonable for the Skins to hesitate to commit to a long term deal at that value based one season. But let's not run down that rabbit hole again.

 

Point stands that the Redskins have not been known as a team who hesitated to pay, or even overpay, on contracts in the past. Maybe that's changing, and if it is it might not be a bad thing.

no its not a bad thing unless you are pulling this crap with a QB you drafted and every indication is could be the man for the next 8 years at that most important position.  This team paid someone it didn't draft the most in the league as a DB after he also had a 1 -1/2 great seasons last year and couldn't come up with a deal for our QB?  I am talking about Norman, who I love but still we payed the dude 70 million with 50 guaranteed.  Way too much money if you think about it.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

17 hours ago, carex said:

 

if this is actually what Cousins wants how does it get avoided?  But there's been little actual news and rumors so maybe something will come out.

 

Well, it could be something that becomes unavoidable. But it wasn't always the case as he could have been signed to a long-term deal at multiple points along the way. Also, if the writing is on the wall that he doesn't want to be here, then they shouldn't be continuing to sign him to one-year deals. No one made them apply the franchise tag this year and no one would make them do it again next year. It's asinine if they don't think he'll ultimately sign a long-term deal. 

[Est.1974]

Probably 20mil light on gtd money would be my guess. 

[MartinC]

9 hours ago, Peregrine said:

Then why arent they willing to pay him $24 million every season?

I have no idea.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

9 hours ago, Peregrine said:

Then why arent they willing to pay him $24 million every season?

Because Redskins.  

[carex]

10 hours ago, Peregrine said:

Then why arent they willing to pay him $24 million every season?

 

50 minutes ago, MartinC said:

I have no idea.

 

because of cap implications

[MartinC]

3 minutes ago, carex said:

 

 

because of cap implications

Nah. Doing a long term deal will lower the annual cap hit. Maybe not by a huge amount but certainly by 2 or 3 million.

 

The only reason to not commit to a long term deal is doubt about Cousins ability to sustain his performance over the length of a contract or a belief that we can get equal or better QB production for less.

[HTTRDynasty]

6 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Nah. Doing a long term deal will lower the annual cap hit. Maybe not by a huge amount but certainly by 2 or 3 million.

 

The only reason to not commit to a long term deal is doubt about Cousins ability to sustain his performance over the length of a contract or a belief that we can get equal or better QB production for less.

 

I'm guessing the second option.  I really think it's as simple as this: Bruce Allen legitimately believes Colt McCoy can produce close to, or at, the level Cousins does with a fraction of the cost.  We've heard reports of this the last couple years.  Bruce Allen is the one who brought Colt in as a FA in 2014, and I think he is content to keep low-balling Kirk as long as Colt is the alternative.

[Tsailand]

2 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Bruce Allen legitimately believes Colt McCoy can produce close to, or at, the level Cousins does with a fraction of the cost.  We've heard reports of this the last couple years.  Bruce Allen is the one who brought Colt in as a FA in 2014, and I think he is content to keep low-balling Kirk as long as Colt is the alternative.

 

That's seriously ****ing retarded.

[MartinC]

4 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I'm guessing the second option.  I really think it's as simple as this: Bruce Allen legitimately believes Colt McCoy can produce close to, or at, the level Cousins does with a fraction of the cost.  We've heard reports of this the last couple years.  Bruce Allen is the one who brought Colt in as a FA in 2014, and I think he is content to keep low-balling Kirk as long as Colt is the alternative.

 

Personally I think they are looking at the 2018 QB class and thinking that is where they find a long term QB. Its a heck of a class - but we all know drafting QB's is a crap shoot. If they thought Colt was a real alternative to Cousins they would not have signed him to the franchise tag.

[carex]

23 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Nah. Doing a long term deal will lower the annual cap hit. Maybe not by a huge amount but certainly by 2 or 3 million.

 

The only reason to not commit to a long term deal is doubt about Cousins ability to sustain his performance over the length of a contract or a belief that we can get equal or better QB production for less.

 

well that's just it.  If they give him a salary of 24 million this year plus any sort of signing bonus, then his cap hit rises this year from the franchise tag istead of lowering. To save any money he has to start with a base salary below the franchise tag.  It's basic math

[HTTRDynasty]

6 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

Personally I think they are looking at the 2018 QB class and thinking that is where they find a long term QB. Its a heck of a class - but we all know drafting QB's is a crap shoot. If they thought Colt was a real alternative to Cousins they would not have signed him to the franchise tag.

 

I don't think he believes Colt is a long-term alternative, because of age and proneness to injury, but I think he would be fine riding with Colt as the bridge QB until we find our QBOTF.  Let's just say that if Colt wasn't here, I believe we would have already had Kirk locked up long-term. 

 

And yes, as Tsailand said, it's seriously ****ing retarded.