The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[LaxBuddy21]

Isn't non-guaranteed base salary basically a roster bonus anyway? Lol 

[saltydog75]

5 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

I badly want to keep Cousins here, don't get me wrong, but part of me wonders how much the Texans would be willing to give up for a proven starter at QB to pair with that elite defense and above average RB/WRs...

 

It's hard to even try and guess at compensation simply because this never happens, because few front office people are as ham-fisted as Bruce Allen.  I would be shocked if a team dealt anything without a long-term deal agreed to in principle.  Why would you want to rent a QB for a year?  Doesn't make sense.  He'd have to learn an offense and then you break up the band if he doesn't re-sign.

 

That's the only thing that gives me some hope of a long-term deal.  I don't see him being traded and as long as he's here, if he does want to stay, we can keep him if the money's right.  Were it me, I'd set the draft as a line in the sand.  Negotiate to that deadline.  You have to know before the draft whether he's here long term or whether you need to look for his successor.  Were it me in charge, my last and best offer would be just above Andrew Luck's contract right before the draft.  Bite the bullet and offer him 5 years, $125 million, $34 million signing bonus, $90 million guaranteed.  That's what it takes to sign a QB in today's market.  If he turns that down, you know he doesn't want to stay whatever amount you offer - Kirk won't turn down the largest contract in NFL history.  Try to sign him for less, but if he holds firm, that's what I offer at the end.  If he turns it down, now I know I have to look for a replacement in the draft.

[carex]

on the mailbag at the Post the guy answering suggests that Kirk really wants to find out his value on the open market.  If that is the case I can't blame the Skins.  That does not happen and if Kirk wants to be a special case then he's nuts

[crabbypatty]

I wish they would just flippin sign him already, and eat the cost. We all know he's not Tom Brady, but you can win with him. You also know Kirk isn't going to check out once he gets his payday, he will still work hard and try his best every day.

 

One thing that really bugs me about the whole Kirk is good/sucks/average narrative is that with as horrible as this team has been defensively and at the RB position, he basically had to be perfect and put up insane numbers every week to win. Take a look at our losses last season, and imagine how much "better" Kirk would be if he had a decent running game to lean on during those weeks when he wasn't perfect. The lack of the run game plus McVey's pass happy play calling were a recipe for disaster if Kirk wasn't firing 100% on all cylinders that week.

 

Week 1 vs steelers, defense gave up 38 and running backs had 11 carries for 47 yards, 0 td's Kirk still threw for 300+

week 2: vs cowboys defense gave up 27 and running backs had 15 carries for 52 yards, 1 td, Kirk missed some easy wide open td's still threw for 350+

week 7    vs lions,  defense only gave up 20, running backs actually had 26 carries for 115 yards, zero td's, and defense gave it away in the last minute.

week 12 vs cowboys, defense gives up 31, running backs had 18 carries for 54 yards, zero td's. Kirk throws for 450 and 3td's

week 13 vs cards, defense gives up another 31, 16 carries for 87 yards, zero tds, Kirk throws 270+ and 1 td

week 15 vs panthers, defense gives up 26, rb's had a pathetic 11 carries for 19 yards, zero td's. Kirk throws for 300+

week 17 vs giants, defense played good, rb had a pathetic 15 carries for 38 yards, zero td's. Kirk throws for 290 with 2 picks.

 

That's 7 games, all losses where the team AVERAGED a pathetic 16 attempt per game, 58 ypg rushing with a utterly horrifying .14 rushing td%, along with the defense giving up an average of 27.1 ppg. **** sandwich all the way around.

 

The skins would have won at least half of those games if not more if the RB's had managed to score even 1 flippin td in those games. As it was in all the losses if Kirk wasn't perfect every week we had no chance at all, because literally nobody else help could carry the team. It was ALL on Kirk every week to give the team a chance to win. That's a lot of pressure.

 

[srtman04]

57 minutes ago, crabbypatty said:

I wish they would just flippin sign him already, and eat the cost. We all know he's not Tom Brady, but you can win with him. You also know Kirk isn't going to check out once he gets his payday, he will still work hard and try his best every day.

 

One thing that really bugs me about the whole Kirk is good/sucks/average narrative is that with as horrible as this team has been defensively and at the RB position, he basically had to be perfect and put up insane numbers every week to win. Take a look at our losses last season, and imagine how much "better" Kirk would be if he had a decent running game to lean on during those weeks when he wasn't perfect. The lack of the run game plus McVey's pass happy play calling were a recipe for disaster if Kirk wasn't firing 100% on all cylinders that week.

 

Week 1 vs steelers, defense gave up 38 and running backs had 11 carries for 47 yards, 0 td's Kirk still threw for 300+

week 2: vs cowboys defense gave up 27 and running backs had 15 carries for 52 yards, 1 td, Kirk missed some easy wide open td's still threw for 350+

week 7    vs lions,  defense only gave up 20, running backs actually had 26 carries for 115 yards, zero td's, and defense gave it away in the last minute.

week 12 vs cowboys, defense gives up 31, running backs had 18 carries for 54 yards, zero td's. Kirk throws for 450 and 3td's

week 13 vs cards, defense gives up another 31, 16 carries for 87 yards, zero tds, Kirk throws 270+ and 1 td

week 15 vs panthers, defense gives up 26, rb's had a pathetic 11 carries for 19 yards, zero td's. Kirk throws for 300+

week 17 vs giants, defense played good, rb had a pathetic 15 carries for 38 yards, zero td's. Kirk throws for 290 with 2 picks.

 

That's 7 games, all losses where the team AVERAGED a pathetic 16 attempt per game, 58 ypg rushing with a utterly horrifying .14 rushing td%, along with the defense giving up an average of 27.1 ppg. **** sandwich all the way around.

 

The skins would have won at least half of those games if not more if the RB's had managed to score even 1 flippin td in those games. As it was in all the losses if Kirk wasn't perfect every week we had no chance at all, because literally nobody else help could carry the team. It was ALL on Kirk every week to give the team a chance to win. That's a lot of pressure.

 

 

You laid the case as to how we have the dumbest FO in most of the NFL.  With the exception of the browns, compotent NFL franchises sign people like Kirk to LTD.

[actorguy1]

56 minutes ago, srtman04 said:

 

You laid the case as to how we have the dumbest FO in most of the NFL.  With the exception of the browns, compotent NFL franchises sign people like Kirk to LTD.

From a Bronco's forum last year in mid April about negotiating a LTD:

"Is that extra 1-2 million worth it? Everybody knows that without Von there is no Superbowl 50 for the Broncos. DTs contract looks like it'll be restructured. Clady has been traded. Osweiler's ridiculous contract is gone, and Okung is practically playing for free. So we know Elway can afford at least 3 million more, but would rather bargain bin Von to 'negotiate.' Look, I get saving money and looking for the best deal, especially from my culture. It's prudent 90% of the time. But I also know when it's a bad look and screams of being cheap. I believe Von is the best defensive player in the league, and he should be paid like one. Trying to get him to take less is a mistake on the long run."

I guess it's not only the Redskins fans that think their FO is too "cheap"

[FrFan]

1 hour ago, actorguy1 said:

I believe Von is the best defensive player in the league, and he should be paid like one. Trying to get him to take less is a mistake on the long run."

I guess it's not only the Redskins fans that think their FO is too "cheap"

Nah !, He farted in Elway's office that's why. Here are the flatulences penalties.

 

 

[bobandweave]

On 4/4/2017 at 10:58 AM, HTTRDynasty said:

I badly want to keep Cousins here, don't get me wrong, but part of me wonders how much the Texans would be willing to give up for a proven starter at QB to pair with that elite defense and above average RB/WRs...

 

They have 30 million in space now so they could assume the tag with no issues. Clearly they were waiting on Romo and now he's retired it makes sense with that team to go all in on him if KC is available. Good time to take advantage of another team and sell high. If Bradford was worth what he was traded for so late in the offseason last year KC should double that. I'm with you I'd like to explore this too not that we shouldn't just keep him ourselves but if he was gonna sign I think he would have by now

[RedskinsMayne]

On 4/4/2017 at 2:18 PM, Taylor 36 said:

Why would we be willing to give up "a proven starter at QB" for unknown picks?  The Texans have done just as well if not better than us at drafting the last decade or so, so why would we give up our advantage to swap places with them in the unknown/disadvantaged category?  I don't care what they offer, even three first and a two.  We did so well with that load the last time we went for a QB.

 

 

I mean, honestly, everyone has a price.

 

You would turn down lets say... Jadeveon Clowney and three first round picks?

[CommanderDOOM]

3-1sts and a second for Kirk Cousins and u wouldn't do that @Taylor 36???

[Taylor 36]

1 hour ago, TheShredSkinz said:

3-1sts and a second for Kirk Cousins and u wouldn't do that @Taylor 36???

Nope, and I'm not sure why anyone would.  This board has several threads talking about how horrible our FO is, that we lost our one and only true talent evaluator, etc. So, on top of the fact that our history with drafting QB's is pathetic at best, why should I or anyone else for that matter (considering all the vitriol for the FO) trust that we will come close to getting the talent and ability that we know we have in Kirk from any of those four unknowns, and you know we wouldn't, and rightfully so, spend all four on QB, which lowers our chances of getting it right.  Chances are we would go back to bottom-dwellers in the league because we yet again won't be able to get the most important position on the team right.  We lucked into Cousins (yes, him being there in the fourth AND Shanny having the balls to take him after the RGIII shellacking was lucky on both ends), and I doubt that we will get that lucky again for another 30 years.

1 hour ago, RedskinsMayne said:

 

 

I mean, honestly, everyone has a price.

 

You would turn down lets say... Jadeveon Clowney and three first round picks?

Yes, I would.  See above.

[Morneblade]

Just so everyone understand how hard it's been for the Redskins to DRAFT a franchise QB, the last one we drafted was Sammy Baugh.

 

In 1937

That's 80 ****ing years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

We just lost the best GM we've had since Beathard, and if anyone thinks we can just "go and draft a Franchise QB", what part of "it's been 80 years since we last did that" do you not understand.

What's more likely is:

RGIII

Health Shuler

Patrick Ramsey

Jay Schroeder

Cary Conklin

Gus Frerotte

Sage Rosenfels

Colt Brennan

Don Van Galder

 

That kids, is over 40 years of QB drafting.

 

Just for some perspective

 

 

[RedskinsMayne]

52 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

Nope, and I'm not sure why anyone would.  This board has several threads talking about how horrible our FO is, that we lost our one and only true talent evaluator, etc. So, on top of the fact that our history with drafting QB's is pathetic at best, why should I or anyone else for that matter (considering all the vitriol for the FO) trust that we will come close to getting the talent and ability that we know we have in Kirk from any of those four unknowns, and you know we wouldn't, and rightfully so, spend all four on QB, which lowers our chances of getting it right.  Chances are we would go back to bottom-dwellers in the league because we yet again won't be able to get the most important position on the team right.  We lucked into Cousins (yes, him being there in the fourth AND Shanny having the balls to take him after the RGIII shellacking was lucky on both ends), and I doubt that we will get that lucky again for another 30 years.

Yes, I would.  See above.

 

 

yuck bro. yuck. Cousins is good, yeah but if he can't be signed AND a team is willing to make a crazy offer, you should take it before you are desperate. I know it will suck without cousins, but with three additional first round picks, and a great defensive player you gotta risk it, especially if cousins is asking over 25mil/year

 

Im not saying we could draft a franchise qb, but with a good offense and defense, we could excel with a mediocre qb for a while (mark sanchez with the jets, jay cutler early with the bears)

 

Best option, of course, is to sign kirk. But if he wants too much and  a team is willing to give us the golden keys, come on man, you got to consider it.

[Taylor 36]

26 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

Just so everyone understand how hard it's been for the Redskins to DRAFT a franchise QB, the last one we drafted was Sammy Baugh.

 

In 1937

That's 80 ****ing years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

We just lost the best GM we've had since Beathard, and if anyone thinks we can just "go and draft a Franchise QB", what part of "it's been 80 years since we last did that" do you not understand.

What's more likely is:

 <list of crap QB's - edited for length>

That kids, is over 40 years of QB drafting.

 

Just for some perspective

 

 

Thank you!  It is amazing how many people are mesmerized by shiny draft picks and can't look past them to see history and probability. We are not putting together the early 2000's Ravens defense that can compensate for below average QB play well enough to win a championship.  Hell, without Cousins are offense isn't even respectable, never mind able to win more than three or four games. We have a young, good QB, who is trending upwards.  We pay him, period.  It doesn't matter if he is asking for 25 million per year.  In the next few years, he will be one of the top QB's in the game.  We can and will win with him. There is no such certainty with shiny draft picks. 

[Tsailand]

3 hours ago, TheShredSkinz said:

3-1sts and a second for Kirk Cousins and u wouldn't do that @Taylor 36???

 

Nobody is going to give that much up for a one year rental.

[RedskinsMayne]

2 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

Nobody is going to give that much up for a one year rental.

 

 

i agree, but this is a game of what ifs. I think it would be a bit foolish to not consider trading what is essentially a one year rental for three first round draft picks if the offer came up.

 

Taylor is saying even if we got an outlandish offer he'd never trade kirk (despite the fact we might loose him next year or the next anyway)

[CapsSkins]

If Gretzky can get traded, nobody's untouchable. All about the price.

[markmills67]

I've got a feeling that we will wait until the draft, and if we don't get blown away with a trade offer then cousins will sign a LTD with the Redskins soon after the draft. 

 

HTTR 

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

5 hours ago, markmills67 said:

I've got a feeling that we will wait until the draft, and if we don't get blown away with a trade offer then cousins will sign a LTD with the Redskins soon after the draft. 

 

HTTR 

The Draft and FA is still going. Manage the CAP this year, see what you can get done $$ wise, see what is LEFT for the CAP this year and what YOU can DO for Cousins...THEN make the offer. We are still wheeling and dealing $$ wise. The deadline is July. You KNOW Kirk is going to eat allot of the CAP. Makes sense to see what chips you have AND get help for the D. WHAT is the rush??? These guys are professionals and don't PLAY until fall. If Kirk is pissed that we don't throw the entire CAP at him in May....then *I* don't want him...BUT that is not the case. Both sides are waiting and evaluating options. Chill

[Morneblade]

The problem here for a lot of people, is the deadline. It's over 2 months away, and it's probably going to take all the time to get it done. And the reason is, IMO, Bruce Allen. He's going to hang the contract, that is not even worth considering, until the last minute, hoping that Kirk will just get tired of waiting and sign it. When he doesn't (and he won't), and there is a week left to the deadline, Bruce will finally get his ass in gear and put something on the table that is a good starting place. I think it will get done.

 

But I don't expect any new news until the 1st week of June. We're just going to have to be patient

[actorguy1]

14 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

The problem here for a lot of people, is the deadline. It's over 2 months away, and it's probably going to take all the time to get it done. And the reason is, IMO, Bruce Allen. He's going to hang the contract, that is not even worth considering, until the last minute, hoping that Kirk will just get tired of waiting and sign it. When he doesn't (and he won't), and there is a week left to the deadline, Bruce will finally get his ass in gear and put something on the table that is a good starting place. I think it will get done.

 

But I don't expect any new news until the 1st week of June. We're just going to have to be patient

I agree. However the deadline is July 15th not June. Only a bit over 90 days of the hand wringing and bickering. Surely it will FLY by!?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Just found this video...it's a crack up lol. Some Ravens fans commenting on the Skins-Ravens game in 2012 after Cousins ties it up. They start talking about Cousins ("who IS this n*****?" lol)...

 

Slight NSFW language:

 

 

[Morneblade]

22 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

Just found this video...it's a crack up lol. Some Ravens fans commenting on the Skins-Ravens game in 2012 after Cousins ties it up. They start talking about Cousins ("who IS this n*****?" lol)...

 

Slight NSFW language:

 

 

 

They know who he is now!

[bobandweave]

14 hours ago, Taylor 36 said:

Nope, and I'm not sure why anyone would - There is no way to know if signing him is even a possibility now. The caps been exhausted this year minus 5 million and all reports say that he wants to test the market. He's not Tom Brady or even top 10 in the QB rankings, would be foolish to sit on this asset for one year only to see him get his way and bounce next year with us left with nothing.  

 

This board has several threads talking about how horrible our FO is, that we lost our one and only true talent evaluator - Nonsense to me, SM way over promised and under delivered. Who was his gem draft picks or Free Agent additions that were so good to back this up? The 5th overall drafted player? The 4th round WR? Nothing SM did was earth shattering and that great

 

So, on top of the fact that our history with drafting QB's is pathetic at best, why should I or anyone else for that matter (considering all the vitriol for the FO) trust that we will come close to getting the talent and ability that we know we have in Kirk from any of those four unknowns, and you know we wouldn't, and rightfully so, spend all four on QB, which lowers our chances of getting it right - Actually if we used 4 picks on QB it would be like when we used 4 picks on RG3 and Kirk and got it right. Why would this be any different? You say we can't get it right yet we drafted KC and got it right with him. Lots of clubs like to double down on selecting QBs to get it right, Cowturds used two first round picks both first over all picks to find a QB  and they did. One of them got three rings out of that approach. Doubling down on QBs would have landed the JETS last year Dak Prescott with the scrub they got. This is the right approach, more options more chances to deliver

 

Chances are we would go back to bottom-dwellers in the league because we yet again won't be able to get the most important position on the team right - So no KC means we suck and will never find another QB? Come on man that's way over the top. I am a fan of the team, not these players. When they win a Superbowl hell even a playoff game might make me change my mind about that but no player is that great to me to put him over the team. They are all replaceable  

 

We lucked into Cousins (yes, him being there in the fourth AND Shanny having the balls to take him after the RGIII shellacking was lucky on both ends), and I doubt that we will get that lucky again for another 30 years. - Wow I am glad this is not my belief. I would hate this situation with a passion and lose it. If he leaves will you remain a fan? Hard to see from here

[Tsailand]

"He's not Tom Brady or even top 10 in the QB rankings,"

 

If you mean ESPN rankings, who gives a ****.  Metrics have him in the top 5 or 7 over the last two seasons.

 

I would love to see your list of 10 QBs who are better than Cousins right now.