The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[zCommander]

4 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

The point is that it makes no sense to knock QB's like Russell Wilson for having a strong defense and running game (which lead to more wins) without knocking QB's like Kirk for having a great receiving corps, which leads to inflated stats for the QB.

 

We had no ****ing running game last year! This is why Kirk had inflated stats. The lack of running game is the other reason we sucked in the RZ. 

 

4 hours ago, wit33 said:

Kirk needs to create more plays in tough situations. 

 

End of story! 

 

Bull****! If the D had gotten us half of the 8 games they lost for us last year we were a deep playoff team. Period and end of story!

 

 

[zCommander]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

Sorry, but you need to take off your homer goggles.  All four of those guys are better QB's.  I really like Kirk, but if you took a poll of objective, well-informed, NFL fans, Kirk would get the lowest number of votes by quite a large margin.

 

Does fantasy stuff matter? According to this website Kirk is better than Wilson: http://edraft.com/nfl/fantasy-football/tools/start-sit/22542/kirk-cousins-vs-russell-wilson/

 

Here is NFL Research: http://www.12up.com/posts/4154983-kirk-cousins-has-been-better-than-tom-brady-and-russell-wilson-in-last-20-starts

 

 

 

[wit33]

9 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

We had no ****ing running game last year! This is why Kirk had inflated stats. The lack of running game is the other reason we sucked in the RZ. 

 

 

Bull****! If the D had gotten us half of the 8 games they lost for us last year we were a playoff. Period and end of story!

 

 

 

The offense was average to above average in too many games. I feel the offense under achieved and Kirk can improve.

 

Yes, on a macro level the defense can be blamed statistically, but NFL football should be looked at on an individual game basis. When doing this, you'all see the defense wasn't solely responsible for being an average football ball team in many games-- The offense played a role in this as well. 

 

False narrative. 

 

 

 

 

[Veryoldschool]

Missed FGs played a big part in missing the playoffs.  The Skins had one of the very best passing games the last 2 years but the running game and defense were mediocre to woeful at times.  Kirk carried the team with the help of a great TE and good ensemble cast of receivers.  Hopefully the 2017 team will be more balanced.

[zCommander]

1 minute ago, wit33 said:

 

The offense was average to above average in too many games. I feel the offense under achieved and Kirk can improve.

 

Yes, on a macro level the defense can be blamed statistically, but NFL football should be looked at on an individual game basis. When doing this, you'all see the defense wasn't solely responsible for being an average football ball team in many games-- The offense played a role in this as well. 

 

False narrative. 

 

 

 

 

 

This is why I said HALF.

 

So when your offense put up more than 500 yards and you still lose is that because of the O or the D? Or how about when the O leaves a minutes left on the clock and our D lets the other team march down the field and score to win the game. Again this is why I said half. 

 

Kirk, a.k.a the offence, can improve with a running game and that is on every level. 

 

This is positive narrative. For some reason some here just don't want to believe it is actually true. 

[HTTRDynasty]

6 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

Does fantasy stuff matter? According to this website Kirk is better than Wilson: http://edraft.com/nfl/fantasy-football/tools/start-sit/22542/kirk-cousins-vs-russell-wilson/

 

Here is NFL Research: http://www.12up.com/posts/4154983-kirk-cousins-has-been-better-than-tom-brady-and-russell-wilson-in-last-20-starts

 

 

No, fantasy does not matter when ranking QB's in the real world. 

 

And that second article was written before Kirk's last 6 games in 2016, in which he threw for 8 TDs and 5 INTs and his passer rating was 94.5.  Let's just say those stats in the article you linked would look a little different if they included the last 6 games of 2016, and it would obviously be different if it included the entire 2015 season instead of just the games Cousins played well in.  Regardless, stats are not the end-all be-all to ranking QB's. 

[mistertim]

44 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

We had no ****ing running game last year! This is why Kirk had inflated stats. The lack of running game is the other reason we sucked in the RZ. 

 

 

Bull****! If the D had gotten us half of the 8 games they lost for us last year we were a deep playoff team. Period and end of story!

 

 

 

It works both ways. If the defense played better we would have won more close games but at the same time if the offense wasn't abysmal at scoring TDs in the red zone (and that includes Kirk, whose red zone passing stats were awful...you can't just blame it on the running game) we also would have won more close games. 

[markmills67]

Just a bit of fun, but it looks like we are in for a long 3 months of will he or won't he sign a LTD. So my guess is that 

 

Kirk Cousin's signs a LTD with the Redskins. 

 

What do the rest of you think?

 

HTTR 

[Wildbunny]

1 hour ago, markmills67 said:

Just a bit of fun, but it looks like we are in for a long 3 months of will he or won't he sign a LTD. So my guess is that 

 

Kirk Cousin's signs a LTD with the Redskins. 

 

What do the rest of you think?

 

HTTR 

We've been waiting for 3 months already, so we reached half way through it!

 

The end is closer than it ever was

[markmills67]

1 minute ago, Wildbunny said:

We've been waiting for 3 months already, so we reached half way through it!

 

The end is closer than it ever was

What's your answer to the question though Mr Wildbunny.

 

HTTR 

[Wildbunny]

2 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

What's your answer to the question though Mr Wildbunny.

 

HTTR 

[markmills67]

1 minute ago, Wildbunny said:

Great answer . 

 

HTTR 

[Wildbunny]

Don't quote pics buddy

[clskinsfan]

You guys that are all in on giving Cousins his monster contract need to watch this. NFL networks "Next Gen Stats" on Cousins. Those stats are the reason I am so concerned about giving Cousins the monster contract he wants. And I am sure it is the reason the Skins are hesitant as well:

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/washington-redskins/0ap3000000796557/Next-Gen-Stats-Preview-Will-Pryor-work-with-Cousins

[Morneblade]

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

You guys that are all in on giving Cousins his monster contract need to watch this. NFL networks "Next Gen Stats" on Cousins. Those stats are the reason I am so concerned about giving Cousins the monster contract he wants. And I am sure it is the reason the Skins are hesitant as well:

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/washington-redskins/0ap3000000796557/Next-Gen-Stats-Preview-Will-Pryor-work-with-Cousins

 

You have a different solution that's going to work better than signing Kirk? I'll wait.

[bobandweave]

11 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Derek Carr is the most impressive name on the list, in my view there is still a question mark hanging above every other guy's locker.  

 

You don't respect Cousins, we get it.   I think you are going to get you wish in 2018, Kirk will be starting for his new team and you'll be wearing Snyder's new Mr. Wonderful jersey and carping about the sorry coaching Wonderful is getting from Gruden when Wonderful sucks.

 

 

 

Because I pointed out the obvious in this thread yesterday does not mean that I don't respect KC, if your getting that from my posts about exploring what's best for the team in this situation your saying that because you can't handle an honest assesment of this situation, for being very old school this is a new way of communicating I don't believe in. There are lots of reasons to not think that he's a top 10 QB in the league yet, never said he couldn't be that one day but to be a top 10 QB it requires more then just guady stats to get there. It requires signature wins and playoff wins something he lacks. That stage has been to big for him so far. Pointing at Andy Dalton as something to consider in the question of how good he actually is when he's playing in a very QB friendly offense now when judging him is something that everyone should consider as well, neither is disrespectful to the man its just integrity speaking 

 

 

19 hours ago, Taylor 36 said:

 

First off, your entire first point is completely invalid.... - Thank you for posting this first. Once I saw this nonsense I knew not to read the rest of your tldr insulting diatribe. That won't work on me. I did suffer through this nonsense and read what you said. Too bad it's conjure and make believe and worst you wrote 150000 words and never bothered to address anything that you quoted that I brought up. With me it's not "if you don't think like I do then it makes you wrong" like you do. I'm open to everything including doing what's best for the team this year and the next few years and if we can't sign him to a reasonable contract that includes moving him

 

 

[bobandweave]

14 hours ago, Tsailand said:

Kirk has been slightly better than future HOFer Ben Roethlisberger over the last two years.  He is also six years younger. - Younger means nothing in this equation. How has KC been better then BR the past two years? 3 playoff wins with a trip to the Championship game with 5 playoff games under BR belt versus 1 and done playoff appearance for KC. Completely disagree with this. BR is miles ahead of KC when it comes to leading the team to wins. 21 wins vs 17 wins the past two regular seasons as well.

 

Kirk is straight up better than Wilson, who has benefited from an elite defense in his career. - Good lord how can anyone actually post something like this in public? No RW is miles ahead of Kirk in terms of ability and what he's done at the position. Two Superbowl appearances, one win. 20 wins the past two years versus 17. RW more playoff wins in that time. Much worse offensive line then Kirk, much worse receiving group, just wrong on so many levels

 

Luck sucked and was injured in 2015.  Kirk was a little better than him in 2016.  Expecting Luck to be better than Kirk going forward is wishful thinking based on their draft position and Luck's record setting contract. - Hahahaha only on a Redskins forum would anyone say that Kirk is better then Luck going forward. Contracts have nothing to do with this discussion. Give Luck the team that we had in DC last year and he's playoff bound no question. Not so with KC

 

Carr was worse than Kirk in 2015.  Comparable last year.  Coming off a bad injury now. - So what? He hurt his leg not his arm. He's not much of a duel threat QB anyway. He is way better then KC sorry this is just silly

 

I could go on but really if there are others out here that actually believe that when you rank QB's in the league that you put KC above

Ben R

Russell Wilson

Andrew Luck

Eli Manning

Cam Newton

Matt Stafford

Phillip Rivers

 

Like you do which would make him the 6th best QB in the league today please pass what you have been smoking. If Kirk was the 6th best QB in the league today we would have signed him for anything. He is not the 6th best QB in the league today lol

 

 

 

[Morneblade]

3 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

Because I pointed out the obvious in this thread yesterday does not mean that I don't respect KC, if your getting that from my posts about exploring what's best for the team in this situation your saying that because you can't handle an honest assesment of this situation, for being very old school this is a new way of communicating I don't believe in. There are lots of reasons to not think that he's a top 10 QB in the league yet, never said he couldn't be that one day but to be a top 10 QB it requires more then just guady stats to get there. It requires signature wins and playoff wins something he lacks. That stage has been to big for him so far. Pointing at Andy Dalton as something to consider in the question of how good he actually is when he's playing in a very QB friendly offense now when judging him is something that everyone should consider as well, neither is disrespectful to the man its just integrity speaking 

 

I have you on /ignore, but occationally look at what you post. Most of the time, it's crazy and unsupported. This is another one of those posts. Dalton never put up Cousins numbers in Grudens "QB friendly" offense. Dalton has A.J. Green. Dalton has had a much better defense that Cousins has ever had to support him. And Cousins is a 2 year starter. He hasn't really had any opportunity to have all the signature wins you're talking about, and yet he has quite a few of them.

 

Basically, you don't like him. That's fine, but at least own it.

 

As for what's best for the team, the best thing would be to pony up the cash and sign him. Anything else is just short sighted stupidity.

 

I posted some information that you may or may not have read a little further back in this thread about how often we have been able to draft a excellent QB.

 

Sammy Baugh in 1937, 80 years ago.

 

Our only other great QB was Sonny Jurgensen, which we acquired via trade in 1964, 53 years ago.

 

Maybe you want to compare him to Joey T.? Not a great QB, but 2 SB appearances and some great moments? He also have a great Defenses great receivers and a dominate running game.

 

Miami Dolphins, 1974. Started out as a kick returner.

 

I was 5. I'm 48 now.

 

These guys do not pop up too often, it's much more likely to get a RGIII than these 2, in case you have already forgotten about that. And yet your stance is that "we'll just draft one."

 

Because it's that easy. Especially for this team. And this Front Office.

 

At this rate, it will be another 80 years, and I don't expect to live that much longer.

[bobandweave]

11 hours ago, zskins said:

 

 

11 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

No, fantasy does not matter when ranking QB's in the real world. 

 

And that second article was written before Kirk's last 6 games in 2016, in which he threw for 8 TDs and 5 INTs and his passer rating was 94.5.  Let's just say those stats in the article you linked would look a little different if they included the last 6 games of 2016, and it would obviously be different if it included the entire 2015 season instead of just the games Cousins played well in.  Regardless, stats are not the end-all be-all to ranking QB's. 

 

 

To add to this, no Fantasy stats do not matter because not every team runs the same offensive system. Some offenses allow a QB to pass many more times then others. Kirk Cousins threw the ball 70 more times last season then Wilson did. Why? Because the offensive scheme that these two teams run are different. The average number of passing attempts league wide last year was 36 pass attempts per game so that's like adding two full games to KC's bloated stats over Wilson's. Seattle does not run that type of offense. They were 23rd in the league in pass attempts per game compared to our offense which was 7th but Seattle was 15th in rushing attempts per game vs our 27th ranking rushes per game. Two completely different offensive philosophies at play so straight up comparisons using only metrics doesn't make sense  

[petedaddy]

the fan base never ceases to disappoint me, thank you all

[bobandweave]

8 hours ago, markmills67 said:

Just a bit of fun, but it looks like we are in for a long 3 months of will he or won't he sign a LTD. So my guess is that 

 

Kirk Cousin's signs a LTD with the Redskins. 

 

What do the rest of you think?

 

HTTR 

 

The time to sign this deal has past. If he was going to sign this deal he would have by now. He's playing the tag game because financially it puts more money in his account then signing a LTD. I predict he will not sign long term here this year or ever. He has repeated many times he wants to test the free agency market. The only way that we could get him signed long term is to overpay for him and the teams never shown a willingness to do that outside of one year contract. He holds all of the leverage here and I do not expect that to change this season minus an injury that forces him to change his tune about his demands. I don't think he's going to stay here when he can leave and the only reason we still have him is because of the franchise tag

[Morneblade]

3 minutes ago, petedaddy said:

the fan base never ceases to disappoint me, thank you all

 We try. We really do.

[petedaddy]

Just now, bobandweave said:

There are lots of reasons to not think that he's a top 10 QB in the league yet, never said he couldn't be that one day but to be a top 10 QB it requires more then just guady stats to get there. It requires signature wins and playoff wins something he lacks. 

 

 

And there are a lot of reasons to think he is a top 10 or top 5 QB, everyone on your list, outside of Aaron Rodgers, has questions or negatives about them if you were to say, "who would you trade Kirk Cousins for straight up?"

[Llevron]

Its hard to look at the last two years and say hes not top 10. And i still think we should move on. 

 

But come on be serious. Hes top 10. You cant name me 10 that had a better two seasons. Regardless of why you think he did (and i have tried) 

[Morneblade]

4 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Its hard to look at the last two years and say hes not top 10. And i still think we should move on. 

 

But come on be serious. Hes top 10. You cant name me 10 that had a better two seasons. Regardless of why you think he did (and i have tried) 

 

And you still want to move on? Not sure how logical that is.