The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[bobandweave]

14 hours ago, Taylor 36 said:

Thank you!  It is amazing how many people are mesmerized by shiny draft picks and can't look past them to see history and probability. We are not putting together the early 2000's Ravens defense that can compensate for below average QB play well enough to win a championship.  Hell, without Cousins are offense isn't even respectable, never mind able to win more than three or four games. We have a young, good QB, who is trending upwards.  We pay him, period.  It doesn't matter if he is asking for 25 million per year.  In the next few years, he will be one of the top QB's in the game.  We can and will win with him. There is no such certainty with shiny draft picks. 

 

2016 - Dak Prescott

2015 - Marcus Mariotta and Jamies Winston

2014 - Derek Carr, maybe Blake Bortles, Teddy Bridgewater, Jimmy Garoppolo, Tom Savage

 

I can go on and on, Every single year there are good QBs waiting to be drafted. The idea that oh no we are screwed forever without Kirk Cousins is insane. When a baseball player today strikes out should he just walk off the field and say "Missed there I quit" Hell no, just like when Kirk gets his way and tests the market and leaves should we say "oh the hell with it we quit" and take our ball and go home? NO

 

We may not have the ability to just pay him, And he's shown you what exactly to believe today that he can make the transition to winning playoff games and maybe a superbowl one day when his most recent game was a game he choked in to get the team to the playoffs and the prior year in his only playoff appearance he choked as well? Your talking like he's shown so much when he really hasn't, maybe he will but with his attitude about being the highest paid QB ever and testing the market he may be great for someone else soon which is why management should get something done here immediately. I'm fine with them signing him long term, I don't think that gets done. It would have already if it was possible. Kirk's just going to squeeze ever dollar he can out of this team and then leave anyway

[bobandweave]

11 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

If Gretzky can get traded, nobody's untouchable. All about the price.

 

Preach!!!! 

 

No one is untradeable. Saying otherwise is silly. Not one guy on the roster is irreplaceable. With Kirk though the window to move him for assets is quickly closing and then if we are dumb about this we will be paying a top 15 not top 10 QB next year 28 million for another single season, horrible on so many levels to even consider that is a good idea. He wants to test the market, ie. aka he wants out. Give him his wish and get something for him. This approach we are taking is the opposite of the approach the Patriots who won 2 of the last 3 Superbowls approach of moving a guy a year early and would never happen on another team with clear leadership and understanding of how to build a winning franchise

[bobandweave]

33 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

"He's not Tom Brady or even top 10 in the QB rankings,"

 

If you mean ESPN rankings, who gives a ****.  Metrics have him in the top 5 or 7 over the last two seasons.

 

I would love to see your list of 10 QBs who are better than Cousins right now.

 

Who is this ***** haha awesome clip there Cali anyway stats don't mean anything so not sure why you think that I'm studying ESPN saying that but since you'd love to see my list of current NFL top 10 QBs here it is. Well top 12 because I felt like it.

 

I'd love to see which of these guys you think are worse then Kirk Cousins, And I even break this down for you in tiers so you know who the best QB's in the league are since you seem to think that Kirk is one of them and ask what tier does Kirk belong in to you? 

 

Tier One:

Tom Brady

Aaron Rodgers

Drew Brees

Matt Ryan

 

Tier Two:

Ben Roethlisberger

Russell Wilson

Andrew Luck

Derek Carr

Tier Three

Eli Manning

Cam Newton

Matthew Stafford

Philip Rivers

 

 

That's 12 guys I would want leading an NFL team over Kirk Cousins today. Not talking about three years from now, but today this season. Kirk is in the next tier with Mariotta, Winston, Dak, Dalton somewhere. In three years time some on that list like Rivers and Eli will be retired so it will adjust with maybe some guys in that next tier moving up. No way to know the future there maybe it includes Kirk maybe it doesn't. 

 

Who doesn't belong there to make Kirk Cousins top 10 this year? 

 

But to address those metrics and analytical statistics which I also know, two words for you - Andy Dalton. Why those two words? Because with Jay Andy Dalton was awesome, without him he wasn't. Without Jay Kirk Cousins was not awesome. With Jay he has become awesome. Stats and analytics will show that Jay Gruden's effect on a QB's metrics shoots them way higher then what they really are as players. Scheme is playing a huge part in Kirk's meteoric rise to the better half of the league in QB play. 

[Sekhmet187]

Ten QBs over Cousins? Brady, Brees, Rodgers. Ryan, Big Ben, Russell Wilson. Derek Carr, Mariota, Andrew Luck and Eli in the playoffs.

 

And thats not taking into account young guys I'm not sold on just yet but could have a higher ceiling like Dak, Winston and Wentz. 

 

And I left Cam Newton and Phillip Rivers off the list but they could also be argued to be better.

 

I like Kirk. But I still put him at middle of the league until he produces more in big games.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

34 minutes ago, Sekhmet187 said:

Ten QBs over Cousins? Brady, Brees, Rodgers. Ryan, Big Ben, Russell Wilson. Derek Carr, Mariota, Andrew Luck and Eli in the playoffs.

 

I like Kirk. But I still put him at middle of the league until he produces more in big games.

 

Then why is Mariota on your list above him?

[Sekhmet187]

13 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Then why is Mariota on your list above him?

Because I like his skillset more than Kirk. I would want him on my team instead of Kirk. 

 

I want Kirk to play better in big games because right now he is Tony Romo. The big stat QB who has wilted in his two biggest games (GB playoff game and Giant game to be in the playoffs again last season).

 

Yeah Mariota has yet to play in big games but he is a better playmaker at QB and made the Titans look legit. Personal preference, but I think Mariota will be a top 5 QB for a decade. 

 

I could replace Mariota with Stafford and put Mariota with Dak and Winston if you like.

 

 

[Peregrine]

Sorry, but putting Wilson and Luck in the 2nd tier, and pretending Eli, Newton, and Marriota are better QBs right now are not doing any favors to convince anyone theres some reason or analysis behind it.  Sure, I get the Ryans and the Brees, and you can make an argument for Carr based on limited time, or Big Ben despite his struggles the past 2 seasons, and possibility he retires this year.

 

But Eli was terrible last year and is 36 years old.  Hes NOT going to be better this year, just as he wasnt last year.  Marriota has one good season with the absolute RB train of Demarco Murray and their run blocking scheme in front of him, and all of the sudden hes top 10, despite STILL not being able to put up numbers comparing to Kirk?  Thats crazy talk.  So is Andrew "Hey Remember when I was highly rated, when I used to be terrible for 3 quarters and then throw a TD in the 4th" Luck.  So is Cam Netwon of the 28th in the NFL in passer rating Newton, because apparently you cant forget the ONLY good year he actually has had.  Or, even though you can make a case for Wilson, but at best hes in the third tier.  We saw this year what happens when he lost his Beast Mode BFF.  Wilson with our defense and our running game is 17 TDs and 17 turnovers.

[Sekhmet187]

2 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

Sorry, but putting Wilson and Luck in the 2nd tier, and pretending Eli, Newton, and Marriota are better QBs right now are not doing any favors to convince anyone theres some reason or analysis behind it.  Sure, I get the Ryans and the Brees, and you can make an argument for Carr based on limited time, or Big Ben despite his struggles the past 2 seasons, and possibility he retires this year.

 

But Eli was terrible last year and is 36 years old.  Hes NOT going to be better this year, just as he wasnt last year.  Marriota has one good season with the absolute RB train of Demarco Murray and their run blocking scheme in front of him, and all of the sudden hes top 10, despite STILL not being able to put up numbers comparing to Kirk?  Thats crazy talk.  So is Andrew "Hey Remember when I was highly rated, when I used to be terrible for 3 quarters and then throw a TD in the 4th" Luck.  So is Cam Netwon of the 28th in the NFL in passer rating Newton, because apparently you cant forget the ONLY good year he actually has had.  Or, even though you can make a case for Wilson, but at best hes in the third tier.  We saw this year what happens when he lost his Beast Mode BFF.  Wilson with our defense and our running game is 17 TDs and 17 turnovers.

Wilson and Eli have superbowl rings. Kirk hasn't won a playoff game. I don't care about the teams around them, that still means something for now. This is just my opinion but until a guy shows hes a winner, then everytime he loses big it calls into question his ability to win big time games.

 

And who cares if Eli is old? Brees and Brady are too but you know they will be good and while Eli does have many bad games during the season, he brings it in the playoffs.

[Taylor 36]

2 hours ago, bobandweave said:

17 hours ago, Taylor 36 said:

Nope, and I'm not sure why anyone would - There is no way to know if signing him is even a possibility now. The caps been exhausted this year minus 5 million and all reports say that he wants to test the market. He's not Tom Brady or even top 10 in the QB rankings, would be foolish to sit on this asset for one year only to see him get his way and bounce next year with us left with nothing.  

 

This board has several threads talking about how horrible our FO is, that we lost our one and only true talent evaluator - Nonsense to me, SM way over promised and under delivered. Who was his gem draft picks or Free Agent additions that were so good to back this up? The 5th overall drafted player? The 4th round WR? Nothing SM did was earth shattering and that great

 

So, on top of the fact that our history with drafting QB's is pathetic at best, why should I or anyone else for that matter (considering all the vitriol for the FO) trust that we will come close to getting the talent and ability that we know we have in Kirk from any of those four unknowns, and you know we wouldn't, and rightfully so, spend all four on QB, which lowers our chances of getting it right - Actually if we used 4 picks on QB it would be like when we used 4 picks on RG3 and Kirk and got it right. Why would this be any different? You say we can't get it right yet we drafted KC and got it right with him. Lots of clubs like to double down on selecting QBs to get it right, Cowturds used two first round picks both first over all picks to find a QB  and they did. One of them got three rings out of that approach. Doubling down on QBs would have landed the JETS last year Dak Prescott with the scrub they got. This is the right approach, more options more chances to deliver

 

Chances are we would go back to bottom-dwellers in the league because we yet again won't be able to get the most important position on the team right - So no KC means we suck and will never find another QB? Come on man that's way over the top. I am a fan of the team, not these players. When they win a Superbowl hell even a playoff game might make me change my mind about that but no player is that great to me to put him over the team. They are all replaceable  

 

We lucked into Cousins (yes, him being there in the fourth AND Shanny having the balls to take him after the RGIII shellacking was lucky on both ends), and I doubt that we will get that lucky again for another 30 years. - Wow I am glad this is not my belief. I would hate this situation with a passion and lose it. If he leaves will you remain a fan? Hard to see from here

 

First off, your entire first point is completely invalid.  OF course signing him is entirely possible.  Our current salary cap is based on paying Kirk 24 million this year.  If we sign him to a long term deal there is a huge possibility that the cap hit this year would actually be less based on the structure of his contract.  A LTD with him will most likely actually increase our cap for this year. And where does this "all reports" bull**** come from.  There was one quasi report that someone's nephew's brother's girlfriend's uncle's barber said he heard that Kirk wants to test the market.  All fluff, no substance as usual from the media.  Kirk and his agent have never said that.  Ever. Kirk has said he'd be happy to stay here as long as he gets a fair deal.  Nothing factual has been presented to show that has changed.  He may not be Tom Brady, but all of his stats put him in the top ten of QB's.  And, with his trend of improving along with the declining and retiring of most of the top QB's in the league, he will be one of the top QB's in the league in the next few years.

 

Whether or not you agree with the threads doesn't negate the fact that there are plenty of threads stating that our FO is crap and we just fired our best talent elevator.  My point is that with so many people believing all of that, it is completely illogical for them to then think that getting draft picks for Kirk is a good thing since we don't have anyone, in there opinions, to make the most out of those picks.

 

Using multiple picks on QB's, especially in the same draft is NOT usual at all.  Remember the Redskins were crucified in the press for taking Kirk after getting RG.  The Cowboys reference you made is so off-base.  The Cowboys have only drafted a QB in the first round twice in their history: Craig Morton in 1965 with the 5th overall pick and Troy Aikmen in 1989 with the first overall pick.  In the history of the draft (80 years), only six times has a team drafted multiple QB's in the same draft.  As I stated, there is no way we are using multiple picks on different QB's so our probability of hitting a great QB significantly reduces. We would be starting at scratch again at a position that we haven't hit on since Sammy Baugh in the draft.  Sammy ****ing Baugh in 1937.  That was 80 years ago.  History and time are not on our side in the least.

 

No, KC does mean we would suck.  Look at the team the last two seasons.  We have a very anemic running game and a horrible defense.  Our Special Teams haven't been overly impressive, especially with the kicker with the most missed FG's last season.  Kirk carried this team.  I would hope that we would improve in the other areas, but to think we would be good enough to even appear competitive without Kirk next season and most likely  a few seasons after that is naive at best.  Again, we are not all of a sudden going to be some juggernaut on defense so that we will be championship caliber with marginal QB play like the 2000 Ravens.  IF you think that is even remotely possible, I would suggest you put down whatever you are smoking quickly.

 

Teams don't just trade their QB's like that., especially good teams. That's why it is so crazy that the FO is playing around.  No other team has done this; it's unprecedented. And, this is about the TEAM, not the player.  The player goes, the team blows.  Kirk is only replaceable if we have someone with his talent to replace him with.  We don't, and trading him for picks would not change that.  It would only mean that we have a chance to replace him, but we, along with most of the NFL, do not have a great track record taking those chances.  

 

Trading off the known for the unknown is just madness in my opinion (you know, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?). I don't know how anyone who has been a fan of this team, especially over the past 25 years, can think otherwise.  We've had drafts where we were stacked, and we've had drafts were we were short on picks.  Either way, we've always come away with no QB worth mentioning, never mind keeping and playing.  We finally have that and people want to go back to the roulette wheel?  Madness.

 

[Taylor 36]

3 hours ago, bobandweave said:

 

2016 - Dak Prescott

2015 - Marcus Mariotta and Jamies Winston

2014 - Derek Carr, maybe Blake Bortles, Teddy Bridgewater, Jimmy Garoppolo, Tom Savage

 

I can go on and on, Every single year there are good QBs waiting to be drafted. The idea that oh no we are screwed forever without Kirk Cousins is insane. When a baseball player today strikes out should he just walk off the field and say "Missed there I quit" Hell no, just like when Kirk gets his way and tests the market and leaves should we say "oh the hell with it we quit" and take our ball and go home? NO

 

Outside of Carr, the rest have a lot to prove.  None of the rest have shown consistentcy in their games.  Prescott had a phenomenal line and running game to hide behind.  It will be fun to watch people's tunes about him change when he is exposed, which he will be.

 

The rest of your post is babble that doesn't reflect anything I said.  Who said anything about quitting (never mind that your talking about him "getting his way" referring to testing the market, which is just ridiculous speculation at this point)?  If Kirk is traded, we will spend years trying to get back to where we were last seasons.  It would be one thing if we were rebuilding and had to take the lumps; it is a completely different story when you are getting lumped because you didn't lock up your QB so you needlessly had to start over.

1 hour ago, Sekhmet187 said:

Wilson and Eli have superbowl rings. Kirk hasn't won a playoff game. I don't care about the teams around them, that still means something for now. This is just my opinion but until a guy shows hes a winner, then everytime he loses big it calls into question his ability to win big time games.

 

Wilson and Eli had running games AND defenses that carried them, and both have years of experience as starters ahead of Kirk.  I doesn't matter if you don't care about that; facts are facts. And, Eli's playoff record is nothing to brag about.  Outside of the two PO seasons that his defense carried him and his WR's made two of the top five luckiest catches in history, he has never won a playoff game.  There are a lot of great QB's that have never won the SB and there are some average to even bad QB's that have rings.  I guess you would have been in favor of taking Dilfer over Marino?

[HTTRDynasty]

You guys can talk about the running game and defense Wilson has had around him, which obviously help lead to more wins, but you can't deny that the plethora of weapons Kirk has had around him helps lead to inflated stats.  Look at Dalton's stats in 2015 vs. Dalton in 2016.  He was being discussed as an MVP candidate during the 2015 season.  He isn't even discussed as a top 15 QB after last season.  The main reason for his decline in 2016 was the loss of weapons.

 

 

[Sekhmet187]

45 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

Outside of Carr, the rest have a lot to prove.  None of the rest have shown consistentcy in their games.  Prescott had a phenomenal line and running game to hide behind.  It will be fun to watch people's tunes about him change when he is exposed, which he will be.

 

The rest of your post is babble that doesn't reflect anything I said.  Who said anything about quitting (never mind that your talking about him "getting his way" referring to testing the market, which is just ridiculous speculation at this point)?  If Kirk is traded, we will spend years trying to get back to where we were last seasons.  It would be one thing if we were rebuilding and had to take the lumps; it is a completely different story when you are getting lumped because you didn't lock up your QB so you needlessly had to start over.

Wilson and Eli had running games AND defenses that carried them, and both have years of experience as starters ahead of Kirk.  I doesn't matter if you don't care about that; facts are facts. And, Eli's playoff record is nothing to brag about.  Outside of the two PO seasons that his defense carried him and his WR's made two of the top five luckiest catches in history, he has never won a playoff game.  There are a lot of great QB's that have never won the SB and there are some average to even bad QB's that have rings.  I guess you would have been in favor of taking Dilfer over Marino?

 

First of all, the idea of taking Dilfer over Marino is stupid because for one the gaps in skill were much more than the gaps in skill in this conversation  between Cousins and Eli Manning or Russell Wilson. Marino is an all time great that still won enough big games to get his team to the super bowl and to many playoff wins. 

 

My point is that when you have QBs of a similar talent level, being able to win and come up clutch is a deciding factor in making a top 10 or alltime QB. Cousins needs to prove he isn't Tony Romo to me. Other guys either have better talent than Cousins or have produced and won more than Cousins.

 

Dilfer was not a great QB but he did not come up small in his big chance (nor did he really have to come up big but thats beside the point). So far Cousins has had 4 major games with playoffs or playoff hopes on the line where he played pretty bad. Thats a major concern. I still think he is a fantastic QB but he will not be in my top 10 for next year.

 

Also when I say I don't care about supporting cast, I am talking about when the game is on the line and the QB has the ball in his hands, what did he do with it? And that has zero to do with run game or defense on that play. In those moments I want to see more from Kirk that I don't need to see from Rodgers, Brees, Eli, Brady, Ryan, Big Ben and Russell Wilson.  

[Peregrine]

3 hours ago, Sekhmet187 said:

Wilson and Eli have superbowl rings. Kirk hasn't won a playoff game. I don't care about the teams around them, that still means something for now. This is just my opinion but until a guy shows hes a winner, then everytime he loses big it calls into question his ability to win big time games.

 

And who cares if Eli is old? Brees and Brady are too but you know they will be good and while Eli does have many bad games during the season, he brings it in the playoffs.

So...........you want to suggest Eli was Tom Brady in his prime?  Ill let you step back from that.  Brady is old and good because Brady in his prime was quite possibly the best in NFL history.  The ENTIRE question was who would you take THIS year as a top 10 QB, not who was the best 5 years ago.  Using Eli Mannings super bowl win from 5 years ago to show hes a great QB now after a terrible season is just...well, not right.  In fact, do you know the last time Eli Manning won a playoff game?  Hint, it was before Kirk was in the NFL, and he was drafted 5 years ago.

 

"I don't care about the teams around them" you and you only, because every GM, coach, pundit, and fan of the Redskins who says "Dont pay Kirk big money, because then we cant afford to build the team around him" does.

 

You are also saying Trent Dilfer is a great QB, and you would take him over Kirk this year, because he won a Super Bowl.  And dont use the "It was the team around Dilfer" because you JUST said, and I quote, "I don't care about the teams around them, that still means something for now."  Do you see how silly that all is?

 

P.S. "And who cares if Eli is old?" "he brings it in the playoffs." The Packers woeful defense last year would like to disagree, with how bad he was in his one playoff game just last season where they dominated him.

[wit33]

It's my belief comparing QBs isn't the best way to go and often times pointless. 

 

When I discuss Kirk and point out things he can work on or credit positives, I'm basing it off of watching him individually in games.

 

Naturally comparing is going to take place, but it shouldn't at all be a deciding factor in whether to keep, pay or get rid of a player. Does he do the job and give you a chance to win in most games? 

[elkabong82]

4 hours ago, Sekhmet187 said:

Because I like his skillset more than Kirk. I would want him on my team instead of Kirk. 

 

I want Kirk to play better in big games because right now he is Tony Romo. The big stat QB who has wilted in his two biggest games (GB playoff game and Giant game to be in the playoffs again last season).

 

Yeah Mariota has yet to play in big games but he is a better playmaker at QB and made the Titans look legit. Personal preference, but I think Mariota will be a top 5 QB for a decade. 

 

I could replace Mariota with Stafford and put Mariota with Dak and Winston if you like.

 

 

 

Yet Kirk gets no credit for the stretch in 2015 to get the team into the playoffs and the rest of the team gets no blame for lack of production. The only reason the team was even in contention for the playoffs this past season was KIrk Cousins. Certainly not the run game, nor the defense, nor the kicking game. But all of that gets overlooked by detractors and it's all KC folding. Really what happened was the team put it on his shoulder in almost every game and doing so caused the fade down the stretch. When passing game is your only strength teams are going to hone on it and eventually find ways to neutralize. Why do you think so many have us going RB early in the draft and focusing rest entirely on D? 

 

Titans were 3rd in rushing. Their defense wasn't much better than ours, save for 3rd downs, but their schedule was much easier than ours. Mariota also has injury concerns already. I like him, and I live here in TN and see those game a lot. Cousins is better. 

[elkabong82]

3 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

You guys can talk about the running game and defense Wilson has had around him, which obviously help lead to more wins, but you can't deny that the plethora of weapons Kirk has had around him helps lead to inflated stats.  Look at Dalton's stats in 2015 vs. Dalton in 2016.  He was being discussed as an MVP candidate during the 2015 season.  He isn't even discussed as a top 15 QB after last season.  The main reason for his decline in 2016 was the loss of weapons.

 

 

 

So what? Don't think a single person has denied that receivers we had helped Kirk. Is that supposed to be a knock against Kirk now? Every QB not named Tom Brady has at least one top notch receiver if not multiple options. They have to. It's a two way street. That's why football is a team game. The players depend on one another. What matters is if the QB is taking advantage of those weapons, and Cousins does. 

 

 

[Sekhmet187]

Okay two things.

 

One, me saying a guy like Dilfer didn't come up small in the playoff run that lead to a SB did not mean I think he is a great QB. I meant he didn't hurt his team and made the right play when everything hinged on what play he made. Yes, he had an all time great defense, but he still could have blew it for the Ravens since they were always in close games for the most part.

 

Kirk has not had that happen enough yet for me. So that is why I wouldn't put him over guys who are just as good or almost as good and HAVE won.

 

Secondly, Kirk gets plenty of credit for getting the Redskins in contention and "carrying the team". THAT IS WHY DESPITE NO PLAYOFF WINS, HE IS BEING TALKED ABOUT AS A TOP 10 OR 15 QB IN THE LEAGUE. He is in a list with guys like Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson and Eli Manning BECAUSE he did so much. But when you compare guys and talk elite and who would you want as your QB if you could have anyone in the league, when its that close on skills and stats, winning becomes a factor.

[HTTRDynasty]

6 minutes ago, elkabong82 said:

 

So what? Don't think a single person has denied that receivers we had helped Kirk. Is that supposed to be a knock against Kirk now? Every QB not named Tom Brady has at least one top notch receiver if not multiple options. They have to. It's a two way street. That's why football is a team game. The players depend on one another. What matters is if the QB is taking advantage of those weapons, and Cousins does.

 

The point is that it makes no sense to knock QB's like Russell Wilson for having a strong defense and running game (which lead to more wins) without knocking QB's like Kirk for having a great receiving corps, which leads to inflated stats for the QB.

[purbeast]

It's now April and people are STILL saying that Cousins is the only reason we lost against the Giants and he's the only one that choked?  I thought we were past that.

[wit33]

Kirk needs to create more plays in tough situations. 

 

End of story! 

[Tsailand]

6 hours ago, bobandweave said:

I'd love to see which of these guys you think are worse then Kirk Cousins, And I even break this down for you in tiers so you know who the best QB's in the league are since you seem to think that Kirk is one of them and ask what tier does Kirk belong in to you? 

 

Tier One:

Tom Brady

Aaron Rodgers

Drew Brees

Matt Ryan

 

Tier Two:

Ben Roethlisberger

Russell Wilson

Andrew Luck

Derek Carr

Tier Three

Eli Manning

Cam Newton

Matthew Stafford

Philip Rivers

 

I only care about what these guys have done over the last two years and what I expect them to do over the next two years.  It doesn't matter how many rings their team won back when Kirk was in college and the Redskins were starting Rex Grossman.  Or how they did back when Kirk was watching RG3 try to run (pun intended) our offense.

 

 

Your Tier 1 is better than Kirk, no questions.

 

 

Kirk has been slightly better than future HOFer Ben Roethlisberger over the last two years.  He is also six years younger.

 

Kirk is straight up better than Wilson, who has benefited from an elite defense in his career.

 

Luck sucked and was injured in 2015.  Kirk was a little better than him in 2016.  Expecting Luck to be better than Kirk going forward is wishful thinking based on their draft position and Luck's record setting contract.

 

Carr was worse than Kirk in 2015.  Comparable last year.  Coming off a bad injury now.

 

 

Eli: LOL no. Worst QB in NFL history with two SB rings?

Cam: Was barely a top 10 QB the year he won his MVP.  Sucked last year.

Matt Stafford: Solid QB.  Has been a starter a lot longer than Kirk even though he's the same age.  Not better than Kirk.

Philip Rivers: 35 years old.

[HTTRDynasty]

1 hour ago, Tsailand said:

 

Kirk has been slightly better than future HOFer Ben Roethlisberger over the last two years.  He is also six years younger.

 

Kirk is straight up better than Wilson, who has benefited from an elite defense in his career.

 

Luck sucked and was injured in 2015.  Kirk was a little better than him in 2016.  Expecting Luck to be better than Kirk going forward is wishful thinking based on their draft position and Luck's record setting contract.

 

Carr was worse than Kirk in 2015.  Comparable last year.  Coming off a bad injury now.

 

 

Sorry, but you need to take off your homer goggles.  All four of those guys are better QB's.  I really like Kirk, but if you took a poll of objective, well-informed, NFL fans, Kirk would get the lowest number of votes by quite a large margin.

[Stadium-Armory]

Oops wrong thread.

[wit33]

2 hours ago, Tsailand said:

Kirk has been slightly better than future HOFer Ben Roethlisberger over the last two years.  He is also six years younger.

 

Kirk is straight up better than Wilson, who has benefited from an elite defense in his career.

 

Luck sucked and was injured in 2015.  Kirk was a little better than him in 2016.  Expecting Luck to be better than Kirk going forward is wishful thinking based on their draft position and Luck's record setting contract.

 

Carr was worse than Kirk in 2015.  Comparable last year.  Coming off a bad injury now.

 

 

Eli: LOL no. Worst QB in NFL history with two SB rings?

Cam: Was barely a top 10 QB the year he won his MVP.  Sucked last year.

Matt Stafford: Solid QB.  Has been a starter a lot longer than Kirk even though he's the same age.  Not better than Kirk.

Philip Rivers: 35 years old.

 

Luck available for two first rounders, 15-20 teams are offering that deal. 

 

Who cares though. 

 

Kirk is "our" guy, we have to learn to love him. Your level of love isn't necessary though lol. 

[Veryoldschool]

10 hours ago, bobandweave said:

 

2016 - Dak Prescott

2015 - Marcus Mariotta and Jamies Winston

2014 - Derek Carr, maybe Blake Bortles, Teddy Bridgewater, Jimmy Garoppolo, Tom Savage

 

I can go on and on, Every single year there are good QBs waiting to be drafted. The idea that oh no we are screwed forever without Kirk Cousins is insane. When a baseball player today strikes out should he just walk off the field and say "Missed there I quit" Hell no, just like when Kirk gets his way and tests the market and leaves should we say "oh the hell with it we quit" and take our ball and go home? NO

 

 

Derek Carr is the most impressive name on the list, in my view there is still a question mark hanging above every other guy's locker.  

 

You don't respect Cousins, we get it.   I think you are going to get you wish in 2018, Kirk will be starting for his new team and you'll be wearing Snyder's new Mr. Wonderful jersey and carping about the sorry coaching Wonderful is getting from Gruden when Wonderful sucks.