The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[Tsailand]

2 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

If they offered him 24 and over and they're not even close to getting something done then **** him. Clearly he's not looking for market value. 

 

Nobody knows for sure how high the market for Kirk goes, but it's definitely more than 24/year.

 

Knowing the Redskins, they have probably offered a BS contract with low AAV, low guaranteed money, and backloaded final years.

[markmills67]

48 minutes ago, RedskinsMayne said:

It just depends on how much was gtd. 24/year 50gt led probably not getting it done. 26/ year 75gtd does.

Totally agree, just pay the man and stop this we've got until July 15th b------t, sign him and let's move on to the draft in a better place as a team.

 

HTTR 

[carex]

40 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

Nobody knows for sure how high the market for Kirk goes, but it's definitely more than 24/year.

 

Knowing the Redskins, they have probably offered a BS contract with low AAV, low guaranteed money, and backloaded final years.

 

the Skins have never done that so I doubt it

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

We've gone cheap, which is exactly BA's M.O. and the complete opposite of Snyder.

 

 

It's a good point.  The frugal-cheap king is Bruce and he's not shy about touting that about himself.  And there is a value to that approach at times -- but there are also times (like this one) where IMO it hampers progress.    But yeah Danny left to his own devices was a big spender.

 

I don't have issues with people who want to lump in Danny into all of this.  Clearly if he wanted to get a deal done with Kirk he could override whomever he needs to and get it done.  From what we've heard so far which is low ball offers thus far to Kirk both in 2016 and 2017 -- that seems to be very Bruce.    And again at times I like it.  At times I don't.    When it comes specifically to getting a deal done with Kirk -- I'd actually prefer the tandem of Vinny/Danny I think that team in spite of their many faults would get it done.  

 

Not that I am giving up on Bruce getting it done but his frugality and negotiating style worries me when it comes to the Kirk contract.  

[MartinC]

46 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

Nobody knows for sure how high the market for Kirk goes, but it's definitely more than 24/year.

 

Knowing the Redskins, they have probably offered a BS contract with low AAV, low guaranteed money, and backloaded final years.

 

When have the Skins done this before? I cant think of a deal for a high profile player which would fit that description.

[Morneblade]

7 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

When have the Skins done this before? I cant think of a deal for a high profile player which would fit that description.

 

Apparently last year with the same guy.

[Tsailand]

12 minutes ago, carex said:

the Skins have never done that so I doubt it

 

8 minutes ago, MartinC said:

When have the Skins done this before? I cant think of a deal for a high profile player which would fit that description.

 

They did that last year.  With the same player.

 

You know, our franchise QB.  Does that count as high profile?

[carex]

1 minute ago, Tsailand said:

 

 

They did that last year.  With the same player.

 

You know, our franchise QB.  Does that count as high profile?

 

Kirk hadn't done enough then

[Morneblade]

2 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Apparently last year with the same guy.

 

1 minute ago, Tsailand said:

 

 

They did that last year.  With the same player.

 

You know, our franchise QB.  Does that count as high profile?

 

Get out of my head!

[Tsailand]

Just now, carex said:

Kirk hadn't done enough then

 

He'd done enough to get a better offer than $16M/year with 24 guaranteed.  Which was the best Snyderallen offered him.

[TSO]

FYI: 

 

 

 

I honestly read it exactly like that the first time, but I guess I could see how there was some confusion. I must just be too smart or something. It happens.  

[elkabong82]

11 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

He'd done enough to get a better offer than $16M/year with 24 guaranteed.  Which was the best Snyderallen offered him.

 

Half a season of top play, and against weaker opponents (I'm big fan of Kirk but these were the arguments lobbied against him by many after 2015), and he was replacing a mega-bust QB the team spent a significant amount of draft resources on. It's understandable why the team was gun shy and wanted to see more out of Kirk before ponying up for a big LTD. 

[Tsailand]

@elkabong82, right, that's why FMV for him after 2015 was "only" 20-21 per year, instead of 25-27 like it is now.  There are not enough good QBs in the NFL; just running a pro offense for ten games at an elite level should have been enough to get a long term deal done a year ago.

 

If we end up losing Kirk to a good team, he is going to win multiple playoff games for them and we are going to look like morons.  Everyone knows that, including the Redskins management, which is why they are already in damage control mode.  The team and the remaining Snyder defenders are going to have a million reasons why they did everything right and nothing was their fault and everything should be blamed on Kirk's agent and the Shanahans.

[Morneblade]

17 minutes ago, elkabong82 said:

 

Half a season of top play, and against weaker opponents (I'm big fan of Kirk but these were the arguments lobbied against him by many after 2015), and he was replacing a mega-bust QB the team spent a significant amount of draft resources on. It's understandable why the team was gun shy and wanted to see more out of Kirk before ponying up for a big LTD. 

 

Sure, and I think a lot of people felt the same way. I was looking for a LTD, but I was also unsure. But that's the reason you supposedly have someone like McCloughan, to see that and make that call. And if he did make that call, and then BA basically underminded him on it by offering a low ball contract and then not negotiating? It kind of defeats the purpose of having him.

 

We don't know for sure what went on behind closed doors. But we do know that if we had locked him up last year, we would not have regretted it and would be getting him much cheaper than now.

[elkabong82]

2 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

@elkabong82, right, that's why FMV for him after 2015 was "only" 20-21 per year, instead of 25-27 like it is now.  There are not enough good QBs in the NFL; just running a pro offense for ten games at an elite level should have been enough to get a long term deal done a year ago.

 

If we end up losing Kirk to a good team, he is going to win multiple playoff games for them and we are going to look like morons.  Everyone knows that, including the Redskins management, which is why they are already in damage control mode.  The team and the remaining Snyder defenders are going to have a million reasons why they did everything right and nothing was their fault and everything should be blamed on Kirk's agent and the Shanahans.

 

No, this is just you going along with others and fearing a potential outcome. You're ignoring that the team knew all along that if Kirk played well again that they would have to do a LTD at a higher price and what FMV would potentially be. They decided it was worth the risk of several million more per year instead of being wrong and in the hole tens of millions of dollars on the whole and deterring team building by several seasons. 

 

Right now they are in talks and it is proceeding like most players on the tag. Kirk is not a normal situation. He became a starter later on and just has 2 years as a starter. He wasn't starting from rookie year or year 2 and plenty of tape on him and easier to make a decision. That's why tag happened. This year they used exclusive tag and although many are panicky, given the actual words from both sides the LTD is likely to get done.

[Skinsinparadise]

1. • John Keim‏Verified account @john_keim  14m14 minutes ago

     
     

     Replying to @john_keim

     Also was told at time "low guarantees". Not sure exact figure.

     4 replies4 retweets1 like

     
     

      
   • John Keim‏Verified account @john_keim  16m16 minutes ago

     More

     Had in recent stories but No talks since combine with Cousins and redskins. At time reported 5 years approx 100 mil. @MasterTes reported too

      

[Tsailand]

8 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

But that's the reason you supposedly have someone like McCloughan, to see that and make that call. And if he did make that call, and then BA basically underminded him on it by offering a low ball contract and then not negotiating? It kind of defeats the purpose of having him.

 

We know that in 2016 Kirk asked for a 3-year deal at 19.5M/year (58.5M total). 

 

We know the Redskins rejected that deal, and didn't even make a counteroffer.

 

If Scott is the one who rejected the deal, he deserved to be fired. 

 

If it was Bruce, he deserves to be fired.

 

If it was Dan, he deserves to be set on fire.

[Cooleyfan1993]

So, any idea if Kirk will sign now or if it's still too low or something? 

 

 

[purbeast]

Kirk is ALREADY MAKING $24 MILLION THIS YEAR!  

 

That means the Redskins value him at $24 million a year.

 

How the hell are they going to even insult KC and offer him a 5 year deal at $100 million which is $20 million a year?  Like holy ****, did these idiots even pass 5th grade math?

[carex]

,

41 minutes ago, purbeast said:

Kirk is ALREADY MAKING $24 MILLION THIS YEAR!  

 

That means the Redskins value him at $24 million a year.

 

How the hell are they going to even insult KC and offer him a 5 year deal at $100 million which is $20 million a year?  Like holy ****, did these idiots even pass 5th grade math?

 

did you ever negotiate?

 

'Well Kirk, we could pay you 24 million this year, but if you agree to this deal we will potentially pay you 100 million over 5 with more than 24 guarenteed to you

[ThomasRoane]

41 minutes ago, purbeast said:

Kirk is ALREADY MAKING $24 MILLION THIS YEAR!  

 

That means the Redskins value him at $24 million a year.

 

How the hell are they going to even insult KC and offer him a 5 year deal at $100 million which is $20 million a year?  Like holy ****, did these idiots even pass 5th grade math?

 

I would be very interested in seeing how sales are going for season tickets?  When I get my emails I'll be replying "Sign Kirk and then come and talk to me."  Would also be interested to see how sales would do after Kirk signed a LTD.

[purbeast]

2 minutes ago, carex said:

,

 

did you ever negotiate?

 

'Well Kirk, we could pay you 24 million this year, but if you agree to this deal we will potentially pay you 100 million over 5 with more than 24 guarenteed to you

Yes I've negotiated, and I've never gone lower than the bare minimum I'm worth, and neither should KC, which is $24 million per year.

1 minute ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

I would be very interested in seeing how sales are going for season tickets?  When I get my emails I'll be replying "Sign Kirk and then come and talk to me."  Would also be interested to see how sales would do after Kirk signed a LTD.

I would never ever pay for season tickets with the way the Redskins have been the past decades.  There were some really good season tickets in our family too that my grandfather purchased way back in RFK days that the family decided to let go of like 5 or 6 years ago because the organization is ran so poorly.  If I want to go to a game, I'll head to Craigslist or watch them play in an opponents stadium like I did last year at M&T.

[ThomasRoane]

1 minute ago, purbeast said:

Yes I've negotiated, and I've never gone lower than the bare minimum I'm worth, and neither should KC, which is $24 million per year.

 

Or at least offer a guaranteed amount that at least supersedes the guaranteed money Kirk can potentially make if he is franchised next year.  I haven't heard that the guaranteed money has topped $58M ($24 for 2017 + $28 for 2018).  Based on fair market value I think $70M guaranteed is the floor for a LTD right now. 

[RedskinsMayne]

3 hours ago, purbeast said:

Kirk is ALREADY MAKING $24 MILLION THIS YEAR!  

 

That means the Redskins value him at $24 million a year.

 

How the hell are they going to even insult KC and offer him a 5 year deal at $100 million which is $20 million a year?  Like holy ****, did these idiots even pass 5th grade math?

 

 

i do think it is going to take 24mil a year, mainly due to the implications next year. However, you must also see that signing a 5 year 100 million contract with 50 mil gtd is worth more than 24mill for this year. If he breaks his leg and blows his knee this year, while also smacking his wife around, getting "thug life" tattooed on his forehead and the words "**** coach" on his fingers while running a dog fighting ring and commiting capital murder while dating an underage girl, under the franchise tag he might only get 8-12 next year, but if he signs the ltd he's guaranteed the full 50 right away.

 

 

Cousins seems more than willing to roll the dice though, so honestly i doubt that security appeals to him very much. Wanting 24mil doesn't make him a greedy ass, imo. I'd rather sign him to a huge long term contract that cripples our cap while seeing him end up throwing for 2 touchdowns and 37 interceptions next year than letting him walk and sign with someone else and throw for 37 touchdowns and 2 ints.

[WelshSkinsFan]

Well that won't get it done but it is at least an incremental move towards a fair deal if you break it down.  The offer in January was meant to be $100 million for 5 years with around $40 million in guarantees.  If they are saying tag plus the 5 year deal then it becomes $124 million over 6 years with $64 million guaranteed.  Not enough but still a step forward.