The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[TSO]

4 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

I really don't even care, as I'm on the side of signing Kirk (It's the safest move, whether right or wrong is left to the future), but have you really convinced yourself there isn't any contention between members of the organization and Kirk? Which I can understand from both sides. A QB being franchised and told to prove yourself once more isn't the norm. 

 

 

 

To be completely honest, I question your initial qualification of what "side" you're on, but that's neither here nor there and I'd rather not get into why. 

 

As for your question (condescension ignored)? Absolutely I have! 

 

You know what "contention" is actually there? A natural one based on negotiating contracts. That's it. Duh.  

 

Do you think Kirk immediately signed the tag last year and then Kirk's wife hugged Scot like she did because he/she were miserable about it?

 

Kirk's not an idiot. He had just earned an exorbitant pay raise and it was because Scot and Jay went to bat for him.

 

Before that happened, he was only a backup who - best case scenario -was looking for a trade or to start all over in FA with a team that'd likely not hand him the job anyway. 

 

He knows that. All this psycho-analysis babble ignores that. It ignores how happy they were to take that tag and prove it again. It ignores everything else he's said about it this season. 

 

Now he's earned another here. And, just like he said, it's up to them to pay him what he's earned. I don't need to hear him tickle my ears as a Skins fan. It's nice, but it's not important.

 

The dude will go back to wearing Redskin Starter Jackets from the 90s and Burgundy suits as soon as they pay him what he's rightfully earned. 

 

I think they will. 

[bigkobe81]

H

2 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

To be completely honest, I question your initial qualification of what "side" you're on, but that's neither here nor there and I'd rather not get into why. 

 

As for your question (condescension ignored)? Absolutely I have! 

 

You know what "contention" is there? A natural one based on negotiating contracts. That's it. Duh.  

 

Do you think Kirk immediately signed the tag last year and then Kirk's wife hugged Scot like she did because he/she were miserable about it?

 

Kirk's not an idiot. He had just earned an exorbitant pay raise and it was because Scot and Jay went to bat for him.

 

Before that happened, he was only a backup who - best case scenario -was looking for a trade or to start all over in FA with a team that'd likely not hand him the job anyway. 

 

He knows that. All this psycho-analysis babble ignores that. It ignores how happy they were to take that tag and prove it again. It ignores everything else he's said about it this season. 

 

Now he's earned another here. And, just like he said, it's up to them to pay him what he's earned. I don't need to hear him tickle my ears as a Skins fan. It's nice, but it's not important.

 

The dude will go back to wearing Redskin Starter Jackets from the 90s and Burgundy suits as soon as they pay him what he's rightfully earned. 

 

I think they will. 

 

I Honestly hope they sign him soon. 

[wit33]

9 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

To be completely honest, I question your initial qualification of what "side" you're on, but that's neither here nor there and I'd rather not get into why. 

 

As for your question (condescension ignored)? Absolutely I have! 

 

You know what "contention" is actually there? A natural one based on negotiating contracts. That's it. Duh.  

 

Do you think Kirk immediately signed the tag last year and then Kirk's wife hugged Scot like she did because he/she were miserable about it?

 

Kirk's not an idiot. He had just earned an exorbitant pay raise and it was because Scot and Jay went to bat for him.

 

Before that happened, he was only a backup who - best case scenario -was looking for a trade or to start all over in FA with a team that'd likely not hand him the job anyway. 

 

He knows that. All this psycho-analysis babble ignores that. It ignores how happy they were to take that tag and prove it again. It ignores everything else he's said about it this season. 

 

Now he's earned another here. And, just like he said, it's up to them to pay him what he's earned. I don't need to hear him tickle my ears as a Skins fan. It's nice, but it's not important.

 

The dude will go back to wearing Redskin Starter Jackets from the 90s and Burgundy suits as soon as they pay him what he's rightfully earned. 

 

I think they will. 

 

 

 

 

No need to question my thoughts on resigning Kirk. Do I feel the value system for Top 15 Qbs is broken? Yes, most definitely, but I understand this is today's NFL and how the QB is catered to. I'm not 100% sold on Kirk, but I believe he will continue to be at the least a top 15 QB, if not a bit better. Resigning him is the safest move for the franchise moving forward. Only time will tell if right or wrong. 

 

I do psych-analyze many things about the Skins-- To be honest, its something I enjoy and always curious about it being/becoming true. You got me there. 

 

I look forward to seeing Kirk accept the fans and show himself a bit more. It will certainly help his popularity, whatever that counts for lol. 

 

Your view is filled with sun and daisies, lets go with your thought process. 

 

 

[William Barbour]

If you think Kirk doesnt elevate the play of players around him. Well, you are not watching the same games as me. I disagree. 

 

Even the offensive line has been 100x better since hes become the QB. 

[Taylor 36]

15 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

No we couldn't. When he signed the Franchise Tag, we had until the 15th of july to sign him long term.

Negotiations were forbidden during the season because of it.

Incorrect.  After the July deadline, if no long-term contract is agreed upon, the player will play under the tag for the current season; however, negotiations for a future contract may continue.

[Taylor 36]

16 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

Whoa there pilgrim ---  I said I agreed with you. But factually, they would have been a top 15 team in pts/gm. That's all I was saying. I never said that made them a top 15 D - did I? Again, I thought I was very clear I agreed with your point.

 

It's getting a little testy in here.

Sorry, if I came off as being upset with you; that was not my intention at all.  Tone can be so hard to decipher on a message board with people you don't know outside of the written word.  I understood that you were agreeing with me, I was just trying to make the point I was trying to make clearer.  I wasn't trying to push any angst your way; I knew you agreed and that you didn't even make the original post.  I must have failed; my bad!  

 

Let me try again:

 

The poster I had originally responded to was saying that if our D would have had just 15 more points, they would have ranked near middle of the pack, so they were close to not being a bad defense because of one statistical category, pts/gm.  I was countering that train of thought by saying if we wanted to look at things that way, then spotting Cousins a few points in most categories would put him at the very top of all the categories.  Essentially, if we are going to spot points for the defense to try and say they weren't that bad, then we should spot points to Cousins, which, in turn, would show he was the #1 or #2 QB in most categories this season.

 

I hope that makes more sense!?!?!?

[TSO]

5 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

Your view is filled with sun and daisies, lets go with your thought process. 

 

 

Ewwwwwww, way to just trash the discussion there and drag it down to elementary school levels. 

 

 

Lol, see what I mean though? No need to question, right? Riiiiiiiiiiight. 

  

No sun, no daisies. Just the reality. He's given the fans plenty enough during non-Priceline Negotiator times.

 

That all needs to be completely ignored to truly have a problem with what he says now while failing to recognize the difference. 

[Llevron]

5 hours ago, William Barbour said:

If you think Kirk doesnt elevate the play of players around him. Well, you are not watching the same games as me. I disagree. 

 

Even the offensive line has been 100x better since hes become the QB. 

 

See thats what kills me. We can see Kirks improvements and defend them to the death but are happy to gloss over the fact that we have 3 new starters on the line and MUCH better backups? But HE has made the Oline 100x better. You see where im coming from?

 

So what was the excuse again at the end of the season when the line was injured and failing to protect? You cant have it both ways. 

 

The reality is, a football team is the sum of its parts. Kirk is not above the Washington Redskins!

[Bang]

Kirk does get the ball out fast. This line does have good people on it, but how do you think they'd do with a guy who likes to nurse the ball back there like Campbell did, or Ramsey?

Definitly the sum of it's parts, but he QBs part in the protection of a play is to make the right read and get the ball out. He typically does.

 

~Bang

[Llevron]

2 minutes ago, Bang said:

Kirk does get the ball out fast. This line does have good people on it, but how do you think they'd do with a guy who likes to nurse the ball back there like Campbell did, or Ramsey?

Definitly the sum of it's parts, but he QBs part in the protection of a play is to make the right read and get the ball out. He typically does.

 

~Bang

 

He definitely does his job, and well. And, currently, he is irreplaceable. As a matter of fact teams didn't even blitz us in the beginning of the season because he would routinely make them pay for it at the end of 2015. That's a testimony to how much easier he makes it on the squad. 

 

But let's not act like the squad doesn't make it easier for him either. You can go position by position and talk about how much better this offense is compared to when Gruden took it over. Just saying 'Kirk is the reason for our sucsess" doesn't do the team justice at all. Compare Randell El to Crowder lol. Or Mosses to Polumbus. Reed to Coley. Our past roster isn't even close. It's laughable by comparison. 

 

And as much as I talk about his attitude, I think we are fortunate that he doesn't seem to feel the same way. Dude knows he has help around him even if we collectivly dont. 

[Bang]

Totally agree.

I'd say Kirk is the straw that stirs the drink.
You're right about the blitzing,, the Steelers thoroughly confused him by threatening it and backing off. One of my biggest eye roll moments of the season was in that game, when Kirk had acres of space to drift into to make a throw, and stepped right up into the only knot of people on the field, and screwed it all up. It may have been a pick, i am not sure, i just remember seeing the camera angle showing the entire left side of the field empty,, the Steelers had rushed 3 and they were tied up, and he moved right into them.

 

But overall, he learns from it and grows.

 

~Bang

[clskinsfan]

6 hours ago, William Barbour said:

If you think Kirk doesnt elevate the play of players around him. Well, you are not watching the same games as me. I disagree. 

 

Even the offensive line has been 100x better since hes become the QB. 

I will agree with this. The sack numbers so often get blamed on the OL when the QB has a huge impact on it as well. I am for signing Kirk at this point. Do I think he has major flaws? Yes I do. I find it hard to pay someone top 3 or 5 money who has consistently shown that he will throw a game away with bad decision making. But Kirk is definitely a franchise QB in this league. And those guys are impossible to find. I think you bite the bullet and pay him what he wants. Now the question becomes does Kirk want to be here?

 

I want to edit this by adding I think Kirk learns from his mistakes. That is evident in his improvement over the past 5 years. He knows he should have run on that play against the Giants. And said so after the game. So lets hope he decides to use his athleticism a little more going forward. Especially when the season is on the line.

[NoCalMike]

If the QB position is 70% on script and 30% off script, I think the cream of the crop QB's the one who get the bank breaking deals should be the ones who "make the magic happen" on the 30% of plays that take place off script.  Many have said it already, but Kirk is a pretty solid on script QB.  Snap the ball, drop back, find the open guy....boom.  He misses some throws, but all QB's do. Fine, that is fair.  However, where his game lacks (right now at least) is those 30% of times when he drops back and an open play doesn't materialize right away or as planned.  When you watch guys like Rodgers, Ben, Brees etc etc.....it truly feels like every time they drop back there is a chance for something big to happen, even when things initially look like certain disaster.  

[KokoMike]

Info released by the Redskins today on free agents:

 

“I would love to stay here as a Redskin, but at the end of the day I have to do what’s best for my family,” Baker said. “We’ll see what happens, what the numbers will be, and hopefully I’ll be back.

 

“I definitely want to play here, but its football,” Garçon said. “It’s different from January to March. It’s football, it’s not the Xs and Os, it’s the business side of it, which I have no control over.”

 

“It’s been a great three years,” Jackson said in December. “I’ve had a great time here in Washington. I love the city, a lot of great memories. As far as me thinking about my time being here, if it could be my last, I don’t really look at it like that. We’ll see how it plays out. That’s all I can say.”

 

No quotes from Cousins.  This from Gruden:  Gruden would like Cousins back for the 2017 season, whether that be under another franchise tag or a long-term deal, as the offense continues its record-setting pace.  “As far as what he’s feeling as far as negotiations are concerned, I’m sure he’s going to leave it up to his agent,” Gruden said. “That’s what most people do. And if they come up with a deal, if we feel like it’s fair and they feel like it’s fair, and we come up to one that’d be great. If not, then we’ll see what happens.”

 

This from last February Washington Post Mike Jones:  However, according people with knowledge of the talks, nothing has changed regarding the stance in Cousins’s camp. Confident in his worth, potential and appeal to opposing teams, they had no interest in signing a multi-year deal at this time. The preference was for Cousins to test the market and gauge his worth, although the understanding was that the Redskins likely would use the franchise tag to protect themselves.

 

I will bet nothing has changed.  So, don't blame the Redskins.

[DM72]

I finally got around to voting and I voted YES (long term contract). After learning of Josh Norman's heated exchange with Whitlock and Cowherd, that did it for me. 

[TouchdownSkin]

1 hour ago, DM72 said:

I finally got around to voting and I voted YES (long term contract). After learning of Josh Norman's heated exchange with Whitlock and Cowherd, that did it for me. 

 

Can you point me to this?  If it's in this thread, I overlooked it.  Thanks!

[TSO]

8 minutes ago, TouchdownSkin said:

 

Can you point me to this?  If it's in this thread, I overlooked it.  Thanks!

 

 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I seriously couldn't like JNorman any more than I already do.  I hope he stays in DC as long as he can still suit up.

 

The Cousins walking narrative is clickbait, offseason garage chatter.  We will sign him to a big deal and get back to work on our defense.

[wit33]

14 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

If the QB position is 70% on script and 30% off script, I think the cream of the crop QB's the one who get the bank breaking deals should be the ones who "make the magic happen" on the 30% of plays that take place off script.  Many have said it already, but Kirk is a pretty solid on script QB.  Snap the ball, drop back, find the open guy....boom.  He misses some throws, but all QB's do. Fine, that is fair.  However, where his game lacks (right now at least) is those 30% of times when he drops back and an open play doesn't materialize right away or as planned.  When you watch guys like Rodgers, Ben, Brees etc etc.....it truly feels like every time they drop back there is a chance for something big to happen, even when things initially look like certain disaster.  

 

This right here is the real discussion no one wants to acknowledge as being a big factor moving forward with Kirk being able to lead the Skins to big wins. I don't even care about projecting Super Bowls, as that requires sooo much to come about to happen. I just want a guy who will win big games %50-60 of the time, anything better is awesome. 

 

I watched this past weekend's games and it seemed like more than 50% of throws required pocket manipulation and off schedule type play making to work. 

 

I hope this this can be learned. Are there any examples people know of a guy who's strength wasn't off schedule and then became good at it?

1 hour ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I seriously couldn't like JNorman any more than I already do.  I hope he stays in DC as long as he can still suit up.

 

The Cousins walking narrative is clickbait, offseason garage chatter.  We will sign him to a big deal and get back to work on our defense.

 

He better do this kind of stuff as he turns into one of the two faces of the team and second highest paid player. 

 

This is kind of stuff outside of his play makes his contract a bargain. His leadership will only grow, that excites me. 

[markmills67]

What are the chances if I don't read this thread until Monday, we might have a deal in place with Cousins. Just get it done Big Mac. 

 

HTTR 

[illone]

Josh Norman is the maaaan.  Could not agree with him more.

[Wildbunny]

16 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I seriously couldn't like JNorman any more than I already do.  I hope he stays in DC as long as he can still suit up.

 

The Cousins walking narrative is clickbait, offseason garage chatter.  We will sign him to a big deal and get back to work on our defense.

Fully agrees on Norman, guys is climbing up the popularity charts quite fast. He understood everything that he needed to.

 

No doubt we'll sign Kirk long term, but not until we've settle our coaching staff I think. Then we'll be able to start negotiations with him.

[Cliffmark1]

Why isn't this deal done yet?  

[Mr. Sinister]

11 minutes ago, Cliffmark1 said:

Why isn't this deal done yet?  

 

Looks like that was addressed in the post right before yours, that Cousins camp is not in a rush to kick things off. The Skins can't make him sign

[dckey]

Why are we worried about another team signing Cousins, if we tag him can't we match the offer?  And if he wont sign any offer just so we can't match it cause he doesn't want to be here than he can leave!!!!  Don't want nobody that doesn't want to be here.