The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[RonArtest15]

40 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

If we franchise him, we would be entitiled to at least 2 first round picks.  I can't see the 'Skins taking less than a #1. 

 

None of the QBs that have moved around are of the caliber of Cousins. 

 

I know the Skins would want a #1, but I'd be absolutely shocked if the 49ers gave up the #2 overall for him.  Skins have SO many weapons on offense and the 49ers really don't.  Shanny has been talking him up since he got fired, so we'll see if he really believes in what he was saying. 

 

Cousins played like a top-10 QB this year, but he's not without his warts.  That being said, I've been an advocate for signing him long term just because the other options out there (Tyrod/Cutler/Romo/etc.) don't really move the needle. 

 

Now, if Scot truly thinks that Cousins is more of a byproduct of the system and can be replaced, then I'll put my trust in what he sees. 

[Taylor703]

10 minutes ago, Hail2theSkins24 said:

People realize he's only going to get better, right? I don't care if he's 29, that's young for a QB. He's had 2 years as a starter under his belt, that's it! Even if we lose Desean I really don't see him regressing in any way

This isn't necessarily true. With the exception of yards most of his numbers regressed. Obviously that doesn't tell the whole story but I really don't see how he got better this year? He literally looked exactly the same as the guy we saw last year, even had the slow start to boot. 

[bobandweave]

2 hours ago, lavar1156 said:

But Kirk is going to end up with the highest paid contract in the league. And he's only a top 10 QB at best. It is a business decision. We should have signed him last year for less.

 

Worrying about last year to me is spilled milk. It's over and it's done with. Saying he is only a top 10 QB at best is "right now" thinking. We need to be thinking about the future here. 

 

Kirk has only started two years in this league and he's top 10 already. He played all of like 6 games in 3 years to start his career and your looking at a real life two year starter here.

 

Is he perfect? By no means, he has a lot to do to get better sure. Are you guys really foolish enough to gamble away one of the youngest, best most promising QBs here for some unknown players after spending 30+ years looking for this exact thing? How can anyone actually think that we have already seen the best out of this man? That's a hell of a gamble to me. One that could ruin this team forever if we get this wrong. I agree 100% with purbeast when he said

 

Quote

To everyone else it is a no brainer that we should sign him and it shouldn't even be up for discussion.  Pretty much everyone outside of the DC area thinks he is worth the asking price since that is just the price of doing business for talented QB's in the NFL.

 

Because unless you actually think that Kyle Shanahan and McVay are idiots which no one should think and thinks they can't view talent or create offenses, then we all need to pause and think if those guys want him then we should not only want him more not less but the asking price at the window for him just skyrocketed.

 

As for draft picks hahahahah I mean come on people. Think about this. If a team wants to give us 2 first round picks (seen some suggest that Kirks not even worth that) for a QB what does this mean for that other team losses? If they were gonna draft a QB with one of those picks it means one of those two picks are now used. 1:1 for one of those picks to be used on a QB. Doesn't hurt them at all in fact it helps them tremedously because they know how good that player is already and don't have to wonder about that.

 

Which means the team trading for Kirk really only loses one year of not taking a player, in round one. For a QB that's worth is every single time. Lets not forget this is a competitive league! Why would anyone want to actually help another team if your a fan of this one? You don't help other teams like this. The problem with trading 2 firsts is it just doesn't hurt the other guys as much as it will hurt us and it's not enough.

 

Putting it another way any one want to give up two firsts for Tom Brady, Drew Brees, or Aaron Rodgers? Yea of course we all would do that. You know how old those guys are that we would all agree are better then Kirk?

 

Brady 39 years old
Brees 38 years old
Rodgers 33 years old

 

Kirk is only 28 years old! More to that later

 

So you guys want to trade off a QB who ranked last season for all the QBs

 

6th in pass attempts
8th in compeltion percentage
3rd in passing yards
3rd in yards per pass attempt
7th in QB Rating
3rd in passing yards per game

 

And is only 28 years old now playing the toughest position in the game today!

 

And two firsts after the Eagles and Rams last season traded away a crap ton more picks then this to get unproven QBs to everyone should scream not enough! Some of you guys are completely under rating Kirk Cousins actual value. You may perceive his value to be less but his actual value is much greater then that. And no two firsts is not enough

Back to the age argument for a minute, did you know that Kirk is younger then

 

Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Josh McCown, Carson Palmer, Tony Romo, Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Jay Cutler, Aaron Rodgers, Alex Smith, Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Brian Hoyer, Andy Dalton, Colin Kapernick, Sam Bradford, Matthew Stafford, and Ryan Tannehill?

 

How long do you think these guys will play in the league?

 

Come on guys wake up and kill the flipping hate and insane draft "love" for a minute and tell me what fan on the Rams would not see a Top 10 in every category QB play for two first round picks who is only 28 years old and not flip out in a happy dance if they got him?

 

Kirk is not something you remotely trade away UNLESS it's a Hershall Walker type trade and two first round picks aint that. Even a trade like what we got from the Saints for Ricky Williams isn't worth trading Kirk for. QBs are what seperates these teams! Who's left playing - Rodgers, Brady, Ryan and Roethlisberger . All guys older then Kirk and at the top of the chain for QBs today. Well they won't play forever right?

 

You may argue that he's not perfect, but the results are starring you in the face as to why those guys want Kirk. Youth, Ability, Already top 1/3rd in the league, Smart, Personality, and on and on and on. Those coaches are awesome at offensive game planning and know all of this and want him. But some of you don't? Does not compute to me. We better not trade him

[Taylor703]

If someone offered us a Ricky Williams trade for Kirk and we said no I might have to step away for awhile...

[Voice_of_Reason]

27 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

If Kirk leaves, drafting a starter is not the only option this offseason.  There will be QB's available. It is hard to come up with a list at the moment but there will be. 

 

Also if Kirk doesn't sign the contract for whatever the 'Skins are offering then what is the best way to proceed.  Do you franchise him with just the 2017 season in mind and hope he has a change of heart and/or jumps in quality of play so much in 2017 that the 'Skins offer him more, or do you decide it is a better idea to get started on the next chapter ASAP?

1. The type of QB that will be available is Ryan Fitzpatrick, and his ilk.  Qbs form 20-32.  They can't win you games.

2. Yes. If he won't sign, I franchise him.  Then I trade him.  To the highest bidder.  The alternative is that you let him hit the open market for no compensation, and he just walks away.  I guess you get a compensatory pick for him, so best case a 3rd rounder?  If he doesn't sign, you have an obligation to tag him.

 

If you think you can win it allnext year, then you keep him and try and make a run.  Otherwise you flip him for the best value you can get.

 

 

8 minutes ago, RonArtest15 said:

 

I know the Skins would want a #1, but I'd be absolutely shocked if the 49ers gave up the #2 overall for him.  Skins have SO many weapons on offense and the 49ers really don't.  Shanny has been talking him up since he got fired, so we'll see if he really believes in what he was saying. 

 

Cousins played like a top-10 QB this year, but he's not without his warts.  That being said, I've been an advocate for signing him long term just because the other options out there (Tyrod/Cutler/Romo/etc.) don't really move the needle. 

 

Now, if Scot truly thinks that Cousins is more of a byproduct of the system and can be replaced, then I'll put my trust in what he sees. 

The 'Skins would be absolutely foolish to do it for less than a #1.  If SF doesn't want to part with the #2 overall pick, fine.  We'll take your 2nd, 3rd, 4th and next year's first.  But they are getting a top 10-12 QB in the league.  That's expensive in dollars and picks. 

 

If they don't want to do it, I'd dangle him in front of NYJ, Cleveland, Houston, Denver, Jax and Chicago. Minnesota and LA (Rams) would both probably be interested, but both just traded a boatload for their QBs, so they are stuck. 

 

You're going to find somebody interested, and there will be a bidding war of sorts, and you could get at least a #1 for him, I'm 100% confident. 

[Hail2theSkins24]

 If you guys didn't see Kirk and the offense improve this year from last year then I don't know what to tell you. It wasn't dramatic, but it was clearly noticeable 

[Llevron]

5 minutes ago, Hail2theSkins24 said:

 If you guys didn't see Kirk and the offense improve this year from last year then I don't know what to tell you. It wasn't dramatic, but it was clearly noticeable 

 

His actual stats say otherwise though. 

[Taylor 36]

16 hours ago, RedskinsMayne said:

When can a new contract be signed? March?

 

I get kind of nervous when i hear about how teams like the Rams and the 49ers might make a run at cousins.... 

We can work out a deal any time we want.  However, come March 1st, every team in the NFL has the right to start direct conversations and offers with him if we don't have something in place.  We could have gotten something worked out during the season, but we didn't.  If we let him get to the FA market come 12:01 am March 1st, we may end up in a bidding war.  We need to get something down by mid-February at the latest.  If not, Kirk and his agent will probably say screw it, let's test the market, and the Redskins will most likely be the losers one way or an other at that point.

[goskins10]

2 minutes ago, Hail2theSkins24 said:

 If you guys didn't see Kirk and the offense improve this year from last year then I don't know what to tell you. It wasn't dramatic, but it was clearly noticeable 

 

What continues to be ignored when talking about the improvement, or lack of, is the Defensive Strength of Schedule. Last year the Redskins played against the 28th strongest defensive strength of schedule. This year it was the #1! Not 2nd, 3rd, 4th, the absolute hardest defensive strength of schedule. Despite that, they kept virtually the same production as the previous year.

 

 

[MCnDaHouse]

If this team had a better defense we probably aren't having this discussion. We would have won about 3 more games. Yes, he has warts and seems to wilt against better teams. However, name me a better available option at QB. If you let him go and try to draft a QB then you're basically restarting/rebuilding on Offense. I would Franchise tag him. Then work on the defense through the draft and free agency. We've already committed to having a new DC.

 

At the end of next season you evaluate the team and coaching staff and go from there. If things aren't better then you would have the option of blowing up the team and going in a different direction with coaching and QB.

[bobandweave]

21 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

You're going to find somebody interested, and there will be a bidding war of sorts, and you could get at least a #1 for him, I'm 100% confident. 

 

Not enough! Kirk is worth so much more then a first round pick. He's not old, he's got limited sample size and it's awesome, he has a likable personality, he is a leader, he is what every team needs to have,

 

We get so lost thinking only about Wins and Losses. Just like what we saw last week with the Cowboys where Zeke and Dak and Dez and the offensive line and the kicker and others all played great - Wins and Losses are not the result of only one guy. Yes QBs take more praise and blame when it goes wrong over other positions but if those guys didn't mind that they would not be QBs today. But as fans we need to look at those numbers he put up, and look at the men who want this player, and keep him if we can.

 

I don't believe 5 million bucks here or there is that big of a deal because of the game they are playing. Without a QB your dead in the water. Now as for your theory about trading him once we tag him my issue with that is we come from a position of weakness doing that. It won't be difficult for other teams to understand we are weak and take advantage of that. If we didn't make this public the other teams will  not give us the best offer we can get for him unless we can create a bidding war and with Kirk I think we can. There are tons of teams out there needing QBs now and as long as we get two of them into a bidding war we should come out okay. Key will be to make this public that we are trading him first to drive up the bidding.

 

Our best move is just to bite the bullet and sign him long term with an out after 2-3 seasons. Be damned what it cost, chalk that up to doing business in 2017 and show some stability within our organization for once and get this done. If he fails then we lost money, not great but its only money. If on the other hand we trade him and he goes on to win a superbowl we lost forever.

[Hail2theSkins24]

2 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

What continues to be ignored when talking about the improvement, or lack of, is the Defensive Strength of Schedule. Last year the Redskins played against the 28th strongest defensive strength of schedule. This year it was the #1! Not 2nd, 3rd, 4th, the absolute hardest defensive strength of schedule. Despite that, they kept virtually the same production as the previous year.

 

 

 

 The Panthers and last Giants game has just cemented some fans' opinion on him. His big games last year were against very poor defenses, let's be honest. This year, he torched Minnesota, NY (once) , @ Dallas, GB. Those are very formidable teams. 

 Another offseason in the system, a LTD to focus on nothing but football, we are looking at a guy who can lead us to a win over any team in the league, in my opinion. 

[ncr2h]

1 minute ago, goskins10 said:

 

What continues to be ignored when talking about the improvement, or lack of, is the Defensive Strength of Schedule. Last year the Redskins played against the 28th strongest defensive strength of schedule. This year it was the #1! Not 2nd, 3rd, 4th, the absolute hardest defensive strength of schedule. Despite that, they kept virtually the same production as the previous year.

 

 

Actually, he improved in quite a few efficiency metrics despite the huge uptick in volume and strength of schedule:

 

Yards per attempt improved 5%

Yards per completion improved 10%

Sack rate improved 20%

Interception rate improved 2%

 

TD rate decreased 23%

Completion percentage decreased 4%

 

I'm not buying the argument that his stats were worse this year - throwing for 4900 yards with the level of efficiency that he managed this year is remarkable for a second year QB.  As mentioned in another thread, Kirk Cousins is one of just 5 QBs in NFL history to throw for 11,000 yards and 7.0 ANY/A through his first 42 starts.  The others are Dan Marino, Kurt Warner, Tony Romo, and Aaron Rodgers.

[MisterPinstripe]

How many QBs have been putting up for sure better numbers over the last 2 seasons Kirk has been the starter? Maybe 5 or so. Kirks numbers over the last 2 years have been for sure top 10 and possibly top 7. You pay the man in my opinion.

 

I mean, Im sure lots of people on here would jump at Matt Ryan. Over the last 2 years  he has 9535 yards, 59 TDs, and 23 picks.

 

So 500 more yards over 2 years and 5 more TDs over 2 years.

 

Brees, Rodgers, Brady, and Carr are really the only QBs that have put together much better numbers than Kirk. Palmer has put up better numbers as he has less yards but 7 more TDs and only 2 more INTs.

[goskins10]

1 minute ago, ncr2h said:

Actually, he improved in quite a few efficiency metrics despite the huge uptick in volume and strength of schedule:

 

edit

 

I'm not buying the argument that his stats were worse this year - throwing for 4900 yards with the level of efficiency that he managed this year is remarkable for a second year QB.  As mentioned in another thread, Kirk Cousins is one of just 5 QBs in NFL history to throw for 11,000 yards and 7.0 ANY/A through his first 42 starts.  The others are Dan Marino, Kurt Warner, Tony Romo, and Aaron Rodgers.

 

I am agreeing with you. Maybe I should have said flat or better for the most part. The idea that he regressed or somehow got worse just ignores some pretty significant contributing factors.

[Hail2theSkins24]

@ncr2h Great research. I can almost guarantee that Red zone efficiency will improve next season

[Going Commando]

Letting Cousins walk or trading him is a good way to get everyone fired.  Including McCloughan.  Cousins is the reason Jay Gruden still has his job right now.

 

It's tempting to play armchair GM and think about trading him for draft picks and replacing him with a guy like Deshaun Watson, but even if Watson worked out, what would that really accomplish?  And starting over with a rookie QB, even if he pans out, means we'll waste the remaining prime years of Trent Williams and Josh Norman.

 

It's ****ing simple.  Just pay Kirk.  He's accurate.  He's tough.  He's durable.  He's smart.  And he's good at running our offense.  He's better than Eli Manning ever was.  He is absolutely good enough to win a super bowl with, pay him and focus on fixing the real problems on the team.

[Hail2theSkins24]

My last post about Kirk, don't mean to be annoying, but I love Kirk Cousins man. Most of the fan base were sold, but wanted him to "prove last year wasn't a fluke." Okay...he did that and then some. Now some are arguing because his stats didn't improve that much? I LOVE KIRK. He's brought a winners mentality and high expectations back to this fan base. Don't say Scot has, because that isn't true. KIRK is the reason for that. 

 

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

Its either long term deal or trade his rights a franchise year is just delaying the inevitable.  Kirk cousins is a good QB but he isn't good enough to warrant signing him at any cost (25 TD 12 Int). Of course if he goes we won't have a QB as good as him on the roster next season but that isn't the end of the world. The better we can make the other 21 positions the less we will need out of our QB.

 

 

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

26 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Letting Cousins walk or trading him is a good way to get everyone fired.  Including McCloughan.  Cousins is the reason Jay Gruden still has his job right now.

 

It's tempting to play armchair GM and think about trading him for draft picks and replacing him with a guy like Deshaun Watson, but even if Watson worked out, what would that really accomplish?  And starting over with a rookie QB, even if he pans out, means we'll waste the remaining prime years of Trent Williams and Josh Norman.

 

It's ****ing simple.  Just pay Kirk.  He's accurate.  He's tough.  He's durable.  He's smart.  And he's good at running our offense.  He's better than Eli Manning ever was.  He is absolutely good enough to win a super bowl with, pay him and focus on fixing the real problems on the team.

 

Paying him a kings ransom and not being able to fill out the team with quality talent is a good way to get everybody fired too.

[MisterPinstripe]

3 minutes ago, Fuzzy Dunlop said:

 

Paying him a kings ransom and not being able to fill out the team with quality talent is a good way to get everybody fired too.

Good QBs get paid a kings ransom these days. If you want a top 10+ qb you are going to pay a lot for it. 

[Llevron]

6 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

Good QBs get paid a kings ransom these days. If you want a top 10+ qb you are going to pay a lot for it. 

 

And he better be able to will the team to victory when all else fails. This guy doesnt do that yet. 

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

6 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

Good QBs get paid a kings ransom these days. If you want a top 10+ qb you are going to pay a lot for it. 

 

When I say a kings ransom I mean top 3 QB money not fair market value for a QB in the 10-13 range.

[clskinsfan]

4 hours ago, WordM said:

There are not 32 starting caliber NFL QBs on the planet. Kirk is one of them.

Pay the man. Over-pay him. Lock him up. Get it done.

Who cares if he is "elite" or not or never becomes "elite"? He is a starting caliber NFL QB.

Have you all forgotten Beck? Grossman? TONY freakin' BANKS??

 

Redskin quarterbacks since 2001:

 

Seriously. The QB carousel sucks. If you have one, don't let them go. 

The Redskins have one. Please don't let him go!

The guy still has to WANT to be here to sign a long term deal. He can sit out this year if he chooses and walk next year. He can sign the franchise tag and play for a season then walk next year. Either way IF HE DOESNT WANT TO BE IN WASHINGTON. You tag him and trade him for what you can get.

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, bobandweave said:

6th in pass attempts
8th in compeltion percentage
3rd in passing yards
3rd in yards per pass attempt
7th in QB Rating
3rd in passing yards per game

 

 

 

Come on guys wake up and kill the flipping hate and insane draft "love" for a minute and tell me what fan on the Rams would not see a Top 10 in every category QB play for two first round picks who is only 28 years old and not flip out in a happy dance if they got him?

 

 

 

Nice long winded post. But if he doesnt want to be here. Which is being reported by some very reliable sources. Then He doesnt want to be here. Period. You get what you can for him and move on.