Cooleyfan1993 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, Llevron said: Im glad im not the only one picking up on that. His little 'tude is very off putting for me and I would be surprised if people in the front office aint picking up on it as well. I still cant get over 'how you like me now, either. I get people having a problem with his attitude toward a long term deal, but I don't get why anyone has a problem with him saying "how you like me now". He was hyped up after a huge Sunday night win against the packers, with a game in Dallas 4 days later coming up. He threw 3 huge TDs into the wind if I recall correctly. No **** the guy is going to be pumped up thinking he proved his worth to Scot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Llevron said: You are right. It is an assumption that I had to read into to get. But what else do we have to go by? Its not like he has said anything to point in the other direction. Im mean seriously, what are we doing here? We are all fans and have no inside info. I know for a fact he DIDNT say he wanted to be here when given the chance. Thats about all we know. If we are going to discuss it, you have to use the information available or there is not pointing talking about it. He literally refused to answer if he wanted to be here or not. But he will walk up to the GM after a good game and yell in his face? And you dont see anything....off....about that? Come on. That was my whole point, its not obvious thats whats going on since we have to draw conclusions based on assumptions and no information. So to say its obvious he doesnt want to be here is misleading. If anything, I would take him joking around with our GM to mean that they have a good relationship and its more likely that he wants to be here. But thats my assumption in how I read whats going on. He wasnt yelling at the GM in anger, he was pumped up and excited and celebrating with him. Every interaction I have seen between Kirk and Scot have been positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Llevron said: . He literally refused to answer if he wanted to be here or not. But he will walk up to the GM after a good game and yell in his face? And you dont see anything....off....about that? Come on. Exactly. Also, it's not like him saying "I want to be in Washington" in a press conference would actually hurt his negotiating leverage. We see players as free agents all the time make those kinds of statements at the end of the season about wanting to stay with the current team, and then two weeks later, sign somewhere else. Would saying "I want to stay in Washington and build a championship caliber team" be a bit of empty fan service? Sure it would be, which is the precise reason I find it odd that Cousins couldn't even bring himself to say something like that when pressed on it multiple times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said: I get people having a problem with his attitude toward a long term deal, but I don't get why anyone has a problem with him saying "how you like me now". He was hyped up after a huge Sunday night win against the packers, with a game in Dallas 4 days later coming up. He threw 3 huge TDs into the wind if I recall correctly. No **** the guy is going to be pumped up thinking he proved his worth to Scot. I dont have a problem with him being pumped up. I got a problem with him being pumped up after a good ass game, then going out and doing nothing for the rest of the season THEN going on the radio after his last throw of the year was a pick and talking about how good he was this season and we gotta pay him to see him again. Lol its deep! 2 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said: That was my whole point, its not obvious thats whats going on since we have to draw conclusions based on assumptions and no information. So to say its obvious he doesnt want to be here is misleading. If anything, I would take him joking around with our GM to mean that they have a good relationship and its more likely that he wants to be here. But thats my assumption in how I read whats going on. He wasnt yelling at the GM in anger, he was pumped up and excited and celebrating with him. Every interaction I have seen between Kirk and Scot have been positive. Yea I see your point. I guess it not really obvious. Thats not something i can say with absolute certainty so I feel you there. And actually, before the end of the season and that interview i would have agreed with you on the Scott thing. Thats exactly how i felt. But if i look and listen to everything it just leads me another direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Just now, Llevron said: I dont have a problem with him being pumped up. I got a problem with him being pumped up after a good ass game, then going out and doing nothing for the rest of the season THEN going on the radio after his last throw of the year was a pick and talking about how good he was this season and we gotta pay him to see him again. Lol its deep! Makes sense. So at the time he said it, you had no problem with it, correct? Cause in November nobody knew how the rest of the season would play out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Llevron said: I dont have a problem with him being pumped up. I got a problem with him being pumped up after a good ass game, then going out and doing nothing for the rest of the season THEN going on the radio after his last throw of the year was a pick and talking about how good he was this season and we gotta pay him to see him again. Lol its deep! Not to mention it's not that he was pumped, it's what he said to the GM. "How you like me now?" which insinuates the GM didn't like him in the first place because of what? Not offering Kirk every penny his agent asked for the previous offseason? Should GMSM have run up to Kirk after the Carolina and NYG games and said "Well, I certainly don't like THAT!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Cooleyfan1993 said: Makes sense. So at the time he said it, you had no problem with it, correct? Cause in November nobody knew how the rest of the season would play out Yea. I actually thought it was cool and said it to my GF when I would beat her at stuff lol. It was cool then, no doubt. I even question the "You like that" stuff directed at Bruce too. Its not a coincidence to me he only says that to the guys that are not paying him the money he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 2 hours ago, RonArtest15 said: We're not getting the #2 overall pick back from SF for Cousins. That would be unprecedented. *QBs HAVE been traded for 1st round picks, but I'm having a very hard time imagining the the SF brass would be OK with that trade. If we franchise him, we would be entitiled to at least 2 first round picks. I can't see the 'Skins taking less than a #1. None of the QBs that have moved around are of the caliber of Cousins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, NoCalMike said: Not to mention it's not that he was pumped, it's what he said to the GM. "How you like me now?" which insinuates the GM didn't like him in the first place because of what? Not offering Kirk every penny his agent asked for the previous offseason? Should GMSM have run up to Kirk after the Carolina and NYG games and said "Well, I certainly don't like THAT!" I hope you are not making fun of me, cause thats exactly how I feel lol. I was starting to think I was insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: If we franchise him, we would be entitiled to at least 2 first round picks. I can't see the 'Skins taking less than a #1. None of the QBs that have moved around are of the caliber of Cousins. Exactly, so why would we want to trade him away to try to find someone else that wont be as good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigkobe81 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I doubt Kirk and Scott have such a great relationship as said. I don't think screaming in your GM's face then giving him a knugee as he's completely baffled at the situation says that. Nobody knows what's happening between both camps but I feel like We are constructing stories so we don't have to face the truth. There's definitely something fishy going on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srtman04 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Why does this franchise always have something going on or they just can't move forward with players?????? What has the Redskins brand become in such that we can't even keep our own star talent. This has been happening WAY too much over the past 20 years.....why don't players want to stay here??? What is WRONG with this organization? I am PISSED OFF that we have not signed Kirk yet...what is taking so long? Then we have some in our own fanbase that wants to trade a proven player for unknown draft picks.........WE HAVE DONE THAT VERY THING BEFORE.....Does it EVER work out in our FAVOR???? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am sick and tired of this.....I just don't understand why we cannot change this culture........I mean doing the same things over and over again expecting different results is the definition of insanity!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Just now, MisterPinstripe said: Exactly, so why would we want to trade him away to try to find someone else that wont be as good? I'm not in the camp of trading him. I think that we should lock him up long term, and take a shot with him. Because the alternative is what? Colt McCoy and a rookie in a draft that isn't replete with QBs? 3-4 more years of developing a QB to be where we currently are offensively? Here's the truth: If they don't sign him, they win max 6 games next year. MAX. Unless they completely luck into the next Russell Wilson or Dak Prescott. (Or some could argue the next Kirk Cousins). This is unlikely, at best. So we go from an elite offense to at best an average offense with Colt. And the defense might get somewhat better with a better staff and some better pieces. But we'd be hitting a 3 year re-set clock before we have a legitimate QB again. To me, that's ridiculous. I wouldn't do it. I would basically pay him fair market value, which for him, is something like the Andrew Luck deal. And be done with it. But if they choose not to do that, then you've got to move him. Here's my point: IF they don't lock him up long term, I think they should tag him and trade him to the highest bidder. Because if they tag him, he's not signing next year, and then you get nothing. You've got to either get years of service or draft picks from the best asset you have on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Cousins play on the field with his reported dedication off of it should get rewarded. Too many have lamented his work off the field, this fact is as much the reason for me, why the Skins should resign him. The ceiling may have been reached (who really knows though), but it seems safe to say his floor is what we've seen for much of the last two years. Skins should keep Cousins. It's the safest move, not the right or wrong move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purbeast Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 30 minutes ago, GothSkinsFan said: If we trade Kirk, we might as well trade Trent Williams too. He's in his prime and what motivation will he have to put his body on the line (which he does) for a team that's starting over on its QB carousel? Anyway, if we do franchise Kirk and try to trade him to S.F., I could see him and the 17th pick for the 2nd. Still, given where we are, I'd rather keep Kirk and sign him to a LTD. It's been a long time since issue at QB was $ not talent. If Kirk is gone, might as well kiss DJax and Garcon goodbye too. They would have no incentive to stay here if they have some unknown throwing to them. Then we might as well kiss any good defensive free agent good bye too because why would they want to come somewhere that has no offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 15 minutes ago, Llevron said: Yea. I actually thought it was cool and said it to my GF when I would beat her at stuff lol. It was cool then, no doubt. I even question the "You like that" stuff directed at Bruce too. Its not a coincidence to me he only says that to the guys that are not paying him the money he wants. Very understandable and can't disagree with any of that. In the end, I hope this is all just people reading too much into this stuff and that he does want to be here. I guess we'll find out in march when FA starts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar1156 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 i think what is boils down is if Scot and Co. think Cousins can win us a super bowl. And I think there are doubt. I have my own. The last few games this season were abysmal by Kirk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 7 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: I'm not in the camp of trading him. I think that we should lock him up long term, and take a shot with him. Because the alternative is what? Colt McCoy and a rookie in a draft that isn't replete with QBs? 3-4 more years of developing a QB to be where we currently are offensively? Here's the truth: If they don't sign him, they win max 6 games next year. MAX. Unless they completely luck into the next Russell Wilson or Dak Prescott. (Or some could argue the next Kirk Cousins). This is unlikely, at best. So we go from an elite offense to at best an average offense with Colt. And the defense might get somewhat better with a better staff and some better pieces. But we'd be hitting a 3 year re-set clock before we have a legitimate QB again. To me, that's ridiculous. I wouldn't do it. I would basically pay him fair market value, which for him, is something like the Andrew Luck deal. And be done with it. But if they choose not to do that, then you've got to move him. Here's my point: IF they don't lock him up long term, I think they should tag him and trade him to the highest bidder. Because if they tag him, he's not signing next year, and then you get nothing. You've got to either get years of service or draft picks from the best asset you have on the team. I guess I should have been clear, I was more commenting on the general feeling seen from many posters in this thread and using your post to highlight why it doesnt make sense. I agree completely with the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters20 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I think he has ZERO extra desire to be here, as compared to somewhere else. I think he just wants to be a starter and be paid. And probably appreciated. His is reaction when we drafted him tells the story. "Are you sure?" he he probably feels drafting him to be second fiddle has thwarted the early portion of his career and now not giving him a contract is interpreted as dislike or disrespect. Pay the man, apologize and mend the relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I dont think this can be argued - The Redskins are better next season with Kirk than they are without him. Like most of you, I think our best choice is to sign him up. But there are factors -- Price, talent around him, HIS talent (relative to his price), and his attitude -- And I think those factors will likely make things difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 If Kirk leaves, drafting a starter is not the only option this offseason. There will be QB's available. It is hard to come up with a list at the moment but there will be. Also if Kirk doesn't sign the contract for whatever the 'Skins are offering then what is the best way to proceed. Do you franchise him with just the 2017 season in mind and hope he has a change of heart and/or jumps in quality of play so much in 2017 that the 'Skins offer him more, or do you decide it is a better idea to get started on the next chapter ASAP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 12 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said: Very understandable and can't disagree with any of that. In the end, I hope this is all just people reading too much into this stuff and that he does want to be here. I guess we'll find out in march when FA starts Unfortunately, I don't think this gets done anytime soon. Why would Kirk sign until the last possible minute with anyone? It serves no purpose for him to sign any offer until there's a single second left to do so because someone else may pay more or there may be an injury to another player on another team that has Jason Taylor-type reaction from an owner. It's bad business for him to sign anything long-term if he's already guaranteed $23+ million with the tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail2theSkins24 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 People realize he's only going to get better, right? I don't care if he's 29, that's young for a QB. He's had 2 years as a starter under his belt, that's it! Even if we lose Desean I really don't see him regressing in any way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, Hail2theSkins24 said: People realize he's only going to get better, right? I don't care if he's 29, that's young for a QB. He's had 2 years as a starter under his belt, that's it! Even if we lose Desean I really don't see him regressing in any way Not Regressing vs. Getting better are two different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExoDus84 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, NoCalMike said: Not Regressing vs. Getting better are two different things. Well, we had the 4th rated offense in YPG this past season. I suppose not regressing would still be pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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