tshile Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 I like Cousins, he's on a good path. But yesterday Rodgers got 5 plays off in 35 seconds, totaling 43 net yards, to kick a field goal to win a divisional playoff game. It included a 10 yard sack for a loss. They had 2 time outs. That's what an elite QB looks like. Obviously that isn't the standard for whether you should keep a guy or not. But next time you want to run around telling me how elite Cousins was this past year, or how awesome our offense is, remember this drive by Rodgers. Cousins would have been lucky to get 2 plays off and we would have probably ended regulation tied with a timeout still in our pocket. A sack as the third play? They would have raised the white flag. They would have given up. (And I think coaching has as much to do with this as the QB, and Gruden also sucks at this sort of thing.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Cousins doesn't have to be Brady or Rodgers to be worth keeping. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek1973 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 12 minutes ago, tshile said: I like Cousins, he's on a good path. But yesterday Rodgers got 5 plays off in 35 seconds, totaling 43 net yards, to kick a field goal to win a divisional playoff game. It included a 10 yard sack for a loss. They had 2 time outs. That's what an elite QB looks like. Obviously that isn't the standard for whether you should keep a guy or not. But next time you want to run around telling me how elite Cousins was this past year, or how awesome our offense is, remember this drive by Rodgers. Cousins would have been lucky to get 2 plays off and we would have probably ended regulation tied with a timeout still in our pocket. A sack as the third play? They would have raised the white flag. They would have given up. (And I think coaching has as much to do with this as the QB, and Gruden also sucks at this sort of thing.) How many years has Rodgers been in the league and how many has KC. Also how many games has Rodgers started and how many did KC. Our expectations have become so freaking unreasonable on our QB situation and the pathetic thing is we are a team that has not had a truly elite QB since Sonny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Just now, TheGreek1973 said: How many years has Rodgers been in the league and how many has KC. Also how many games has Rodgers started and how many did KC. Our expectations have become so freaking unreasonable on our QB situation and the pathetic thing is we are a team that has not had a truly elite QB since Sonny. I said it wasn't the bar for keeping a guy or not. I'm just pointing out what a real elite qb looks like. Our dude flubs clock management situations regularly. It's the truth. Remember that halftime debacle earlier in the season? That was embarrassing. I like Kirk, he's not elite yet. I also put a lot of this on Gruden, who has shown that despite all those years in the NFL and having play calling duties assigned to someone else, he still cannot manage a clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 At any time during the entire history of the NFL, you can look at the league and count the Elites on one hand. But they don't always win, and throwing out everyone that is not in the rarest of rare air in hopes of landing a true elite around the next bend is a fool's errand. May as well just pack up the tent. Elites are flukes.. sometimes they are can't miss type prospects,, ie: Peyton Manning.. sometimes they are out of the blue, ie: 6th round wonder boy Tom Brady. Some are groomed, ie: Aaron Rodgers.. but he fell from a potential first overall pick to 24th in the draft because he was a Jeff Tedford trained passer, and prior to him, Tedford QBs had a very clear reputation of being college wonders and NFL busts. The Packers took their time when Rodgers fell to them and made him ride the bench for a while. (Rodgers went one pick before we drafted Jason Campbell. Could you imagine if Gibbs drafted Rodgers?) They are not the measuring stick. They are anomalies. If you can get the next tier down, he's a keeper. You go down even one more tier, it's a keeper worth developing. Becuse the reality is this.. Elite = extremely rare. Busts who redefine the word suck = so common you could drown in them. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxBuddy21 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Bang said: Cousins doesn't have to be Brady or Rodgers to be worth keeping. ~Bang Agreed but it is nice to see potential to become that level. Some of us see that (whether he ever achieves that is a different story) and think experience will move him closer. Even if this is his ceiling, he is still worth building around. That means you pay market value for him. Whining about market value won't change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 minute ago, LaxBuddy21 said: Agreed but it is nice to see potential to become that level. Some of us see that (whether he ever achieves that is a different story) and think experience will move him closer. Even if this is his ceiling, he is still worth building around. That means you pay market value for him. Whining about market value won't change it. We are on the same page! ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Kyle Shanny most likely next head coach in San Fran. Will definitely go hard after Cousins. We're really gonna need Rob Ryan and the D to help out Colt McCoy and our new receivers next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 7 minutes ago, Hooper said: Kyle Shanny most likely next head coach in San Fran. Will definitely go hard after Cousins. We're really gonna need Rob Ryan and the D to help out Colt McCoy and our new receivers next year. Stop it, I can't even... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandweave Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Everyone should be able to tell now more then ever that this is without a doubt a QB driven league. Who's left standing? The best of the best. Who went home? The guys who aren't as good. This league is driven by the QBs more so then any other position out there and we need to accept, without a QB we have absolutely no chance. Now can Kirk rise up to those guys levels? Possibly, no one knows for sure yet but he did go .500 against those 4 left standing this year and is only 11 years younger then Brady 6 years younger then Roethlisberger 5 years younger then Rodgers 3 years younger then Ryan Something to think about, these guys do get better with age Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 3 hours ago, Bang said: Cousins doesn't have to be Brady or Rodgers to be worth keeping. ~Bang Oh I agree. It's just nutty to see people reaching to such ridiculous levels. "Cousins would have totally made this play that Rodgers missed". C'mon guys. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 2 hours ago, Hooper said: Kyle Shanny most likely next head coach in San Fran. Will definitely go hard after Cousins. We're really gonna need Rob Ryan and the D to help out Colt McCoy and our new receivers next year. He can't go hard after anything unless we use the non-exclusive tag. And then I hope he is comfortable with his first act as head coach being to give up 2 1st round draft picks and the largest contract in the NFL to a QB who most outside of this fan base think is a good but not elite talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 2 hours ago, bobandweave said: Now can Kirk rise up to those guys levels? Possibly, no one knows for sure yet but he did go .500 against those 4 left standing this year No one is a franchise QB until they are. You have to try to let things play out and see. Sometimes, time is the only way to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 @bobandweave which 4 QBs did you say Kirk went .500 against this season? Were you talking about Rodgers, Brady, roethlisberger and Ryan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 33 minutes ago, mistertim said: He can't go hard after anything unless we use the non-exclusive tag. And then I hope he is comfortable with his first act as head coach being to give up 2 1st round draft picks and the largest contract in the NFL to a QB who most outside of this fan base think is a good but not elite talent. There are major issues with us tagging Cousins this year and the team knows it. For one thing, he would almost certainly walk the following year no matter what kind of year he had. And San Fran isn't giving us two picks for a player we are going to be saying we don't want to pay. We are rolling the dice on a massive deal or rolling the dice by letting him walk. Guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Hooper said: There are major issues with us tagging Cousins this year and the team knows it. For one thing, he would almost certainly walk the following year no matter what kind of year he had. And San Fran isn't giving us two picks for a player we are going to be saying we don't want to pay. We are rolling the dice on a massive deal or rolling the dice by letting him walk. Guaranteed. I agree that NO team is giving us 2 1sts for Kirk, no matter what. But a non-exclusive tag would let him talk to other teams. And he might just find that other team's don't think he's worth as much money either...especially if they have to give up big draft picks as well to get him. So then he would have a choice to make. Come back down to earth a bit and come back to the negotiating table to get a big (but not highest in the NFL) contract and have that long term stability locked up. Or roll the dice and play another year on the franchise tag. That would mean a ton of uncertainty for him. He would have to play another whole season at a high level to get the money he think's he's worth in 2018 but a lot of things can happen. He could get injured, his play could go downhill (for a host of possible reasons), etc. If something like that happens then his market value for 2018 would pretty much be shot and nothing close to what he wanted. Risks on both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, mistertim said: I agree that NO team is giving us 2 1sts for Kirk, no matter what. But a non-exclusive tag would let him talk to other teams. And he might just find that other team's don't think he's worth as much money either...especially if they have to give up big draft picks as well to get him. So then he would have a choice to make. Come back down to earth a bit and come back to the negotiating table to get a big (but not highest in the NFL) contract and have that long term stability locked up. Or roll the dice and play another year on the franchise tag. That would mean a ton of uncertainty for him. He would have to play another whole season at a high level to get the money he think's he's worth in 2018 but a lot of things can happen. He could get injured, his play could go downhill (for a host of possible reasons), etc. If something like that happens then his market value for 2018 would pretty much be shot and nothing close to what he wanted. Risks on both sides. Once Kirk starts formally talking to other teams, it's over. DC media addicted to drama already -- it's why players and coaches prefer to play elsewhere. It will be a nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Hooper said: Once Kirk starts formally talking to other teams, it's over. DC media addicted to drama already -- it's why players and coaches prefer to play elsewhere. It will be a nightmare. "Over" how? He can't sign anywhere unless we either match it or we get big draft picks from them. And that media circus would be to everyone's detriment, including Kirk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandweave Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 46 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said: @bobandweave which 4 QBs did you say Kirk went .500 against this season? Were you talking about Rodgers, Brady, roethlisberger and Ryan? course, we didn't play the Falcons or the Patriots but we played the Packers and the Steelers. Kirk was 1-1 or .500 on them this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Just now, bobandweave said: course, we didn't play the Falcons or the Patriots but we played the Packers and the Steelers. Kirk was 1-1 or .500 on them this year That's right he was. That is pretty impressive. Although, one could argue that since named full time starter, which has been the 2015 season and this season, he has gone 1-3 against all 4. Not as impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 26 minutes ago, mistertim said: "Over" how? He can't sign anywhere unless we either match it or we get big draft picks from them. And that media circus would be to everyone's detriment, including Kirk. We will have admitted we didn't want to pay him what he wanted two years in a row. Then we will keep him from going to a team that does want to pay him -- and San Fran and Cleveland definitely will (Kyle and Hue both big fans) -- because they don't want to give up super high picks as well. Kirk will come back disgruntled as hell and the media will be writing stories about it all season long. And in the best case scenario where Kirk keeps it all inside and has an even better season the past two, he enters the offseason with even more leverage -- a franchise number of 30 million and no doubt more QB hungry teams. Skins are going to sign him to a massive deal this year that people are going to freak out about, or they will let him walk and get very little in return. Another year on the tag is a real longshot IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 3 hours ago, mistertim said: Oh I agree. It's just nutty to see people reaching to such ridiculous levels. "Cousins would have totally made this play that Rodgers missed". C'mon guys. Seriously. To be honest, you guys are the only ones comparing him to Rodgers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Shanahan Jr is going to be like a **** on heat after Cousins when he gets a HC job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 11 hours ago, LaxBuddy21 said: Agreed but it is nice to see potential to become that level. Some of us see that (whether he ever achieves that is a different story) and think experience will move him closer. Even if this is his ceiling, he is still worth building around. That means you pay market value for him. Whining about market value won't change it. Brady is the best QB of all time. Rodgers might end up going down as top 5-10 best ever. If thats your standard than you'll never be happy. In 100 years you may never get QBs like that. But you can win without them. It happens all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: Brady is the best QB of all time. Rodgers might end up going down as top 5-10 best ever. If thats your standard than you'll never be happy. In 100 years you may never get QBs like that. But you can win without them. It happens all the time. The only other way you win is with an elite defense. Out of the last 16 Super Bowls you've basically had 3 QBs who at some point in their career didn't play like an elite QB and those teams had elite defenses (Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer and Joe Flacco). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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