skinsmarydu Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 6 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said: I actually am a mix of pro life and pro choice. I think abortion is wrong in most cases but don't think it's my place to enforce that opinion on other people. So if they are going to do it I'd prefer they do it in a safe environment. That's not a mix...that's pro-choice, with the exact same conscience as anyone else. I don't think there's one PRO-abortion person on this planet. We're for the right to choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 27 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said: That's not a mix...that's pro-choice, with the exact same conscience as anyone else. I don't think there's one PRO-abortion person on this planet. We're for the right to choose. You're EXACTLY right, his position IS the Pro-Choice position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 7 hours ago, DogofWar1 said: Legitimate question, is the GOP over Roe v. Wade yet? Or is that still a sticking point? They are not, and it is. I personally know many people who justified their Trump vote based on that issue alone. It is still one of the keys to swinging the Religious Right, but don't worry, the GOP doesn't really need to do anything about abortion, they just need to say they're against it, and pass laws that are easily struck down so their constituents will think they are really trying. All the GOP really needs to do is nominate judges who give lip service to Pro-Life but who are only really interested in being pro-industry. 7 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Got it. So as long as you don't say "all" then there is nothing wrong with it because you didn't mean that, right? See I can be flexible. by the way, Muslims are terrorists!!! (No, it's okay. I didn't say ALL Muslims) am I doing it right? You've got the Trump model down perfectly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 2 hours ago, skinsmarydu said: That's not a mix...that's pro-choice, with the exact same conscience as anyone else. I don't think there's one PRO-abortion person on this planet. We're for the right to choose. I disagree. Otherwise, we wouldnt have abortions when a baby doesn't fit into a life plan. IF I were to impose my opinion on others, we would only have abortions when the life of the mother is in serious danger or MAYBE when the baby has no chance at meaningful life, like would be a vegetable and die after a few months. Then I could see the arguement. That's why I say I'm a mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcunning15 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 14 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: I disagree. Otherwise, we wouldnt have abortions when a baby doesn't fit into a life plan. IF I were to impose my opinion on others, we would only have abortions when the life of the mother is in serious danger or MAYBE when the baby has no chance at meaningful life, like would be a vegetable and die after a few months. Then I could see the arguement. That's why I say I'm a mix. Nahh dude you're still pro-choice. You're just arbitrarily setting standards for your choice that you want to impose on others. Pro-life means you will not abort the pregnancy under any circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weganator Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 The only reason I'm not more against it is that the government feels it is responsible for taking care of the poor. That combined with the absurd single parenthood rate today which is going to make it very difficult for them to take care of themselves and their kids. Not thrilled about it, definitely wouldn't want to subsidize it like we do now with PP. But if it's that or welfare / prison for the unwanted person down the road, the damage has been done by the parents decisions already and now it's about mitigating costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busch1724 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 How about Trump's cabinet? haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 43 minutes ago, Weganator said: The only reason I'm not more against it is that the government feels it is responsible for taking care of the poor. That combined with the absurd single parenthood rate today which is going to make it very difficult for them to take care of themselves and their kids. Not thrilled about it, definitely wouldn't want to subsidize it like we do now with PP. But if it's that or welfare / prison for the unwanted person down the road, the damage has been done by the parents decisions already and now it's about mitigating costs. It's not government that feels like it is responsible for taking care of the poor, it's people that feel responsibility for taking care of the poor. I don't really want to go down this road but there are a lot of great single parents and there are plenty of kids from two parent families that end up in jail. 4 hours ago, visionary said: Not surprising at all but hopefully these are the positions that Congress and long time government workers push back on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 14 minutes ago, Hersh said: Not surprising at all but hopefully these are the positions that Congress and long time government workers push back on. I hope that to be the case but expect for it not to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weganator Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 37 minutes ago, Hersh said: It's not government that feels like it is responsible for taking care of the poor, it's people that feel responsibility for taking care of the poor. I don't really want to go down this road but there are a lot of great single parents and there are plenty of kids from two parent families that end up in jail. Exactly, we can go back and forth between statistics cited to help pass Roe v. Wade and anecdotes all day long. The balance is that people are individuals and that it's wrong to lump individuals into their demographics w/o knowing them. This doesn't mean that we can't use demographic data to help inform policy decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 I've had an abortion and I've had a live birth, both when single. Neither father wanted a child, and I ended up the sole support for my living child. At that time, her father threatened to take her away as he had gotten married in the meantime, so I didn't put him on her birth certificate. This was 1978. He was addicted to PCP and there was no way I was going to let that happen. He ended up killing himself and because he wasn't on her birth certificate, no SSI. I was on AFDC for a few years, and food stamps until the Reagan administration said all persons living in a residence without separate entrances and kitchen facilities, and I was living in the house with my mother who wasn't making much money. So I hate Reagan and his administration because he literally took food from my daughter and I. I went back to college and earned a paralegal degree (2 years), which my grandmother paid for, my social worker looked the other way because she knew I was motivated. I've paid much more in taxes because I was able to have a profession besides minimum wage retail. So yes, having an abortion at 22 years old was the best decision for me and I am glad I had the choice for a safe legal procedure. I'm grateful for the support I received from society in the beginning of my daughter's life. However, after working so hard and finally retiring early because of my stroke, and now facing people who think that my forced payment into Social Security and Medicare is somehow an "entitlement" that can be ****ed with, I am facing, as are we all, poverty in my elder years. So yes, I am against all the policies of the Republicans as stated in their platform, and by the people Trump is appointing. They are inhuman policies. And if you vote Republican, you are de facto voting for those policies. And these attempts to restrict and outlaw abortions and birth control are a concerted effort to control women. And if you aren't a woman, especially if you didn't grow up in the bad old days, you have no idea what it was like to be female. We won't go back. Women will always have abortions, always have and always will. They should be safe and legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 See what happens when you letcher wimmenfolk vote? Get all uppity and such, we toldya so. Gun havta fix that'un too you pinkos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 The irony is the lack of support for WIC and other programs by the GOP. How do you try to limit or abolish choice but not fund health/assistance programs for low income parents and children? I guess the same way you fund military capital and don't fund veterans assistance programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 1 minute ago, The Evil Genius said: The irony is the lack of support for WIC and other programs by the GOP. How do you try to limit or abolish choice but not fund health/assistance programs for low income parents and children? I guess the same way you fund military capital and don't fund veterans assistance programs. Bootstraps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 That should all be taken care of by private charity... private charity knows better and can operate more efficiently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weganator Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 That sounds like a great success story. I am glad you were able to overcome all of that. The concern for many Republicans is that welfare becomes a pit that it is impossible to dig out of if you aren't motivated to get an education and get out (we won't get into the hypothetical if you would have pursued this path if not for the Reagan policy change). I too am infuriated by the fact that I am likely going to spend all this money on entitlements thru taxes. Along the way, either Social Security is going to fail / be forced to cut benefits before I turn 50, so its foolish to count on this. If we end up funding it and keeping it we are likely already on our way towards Socialism at that point. Depending upon how extreme it gets, that puts my 401k, homes, or personal wealth at risk all because I decided to live by the crazy concept of work hard, own property, live below my means, and invest. I know nobody here has suggested stuff like this but you hear the super far left talk about landlords like they are evil and that 'money making money' is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 1 minute ago, Fergasun said: That should all be taken care of by private charity... private charity knows better and can operate more efficiently. How did private charity do during the Great Depression? How well did private charity take care of our WW1 veterans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Charles Dickens would club you churls soundly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 11 minutes ago, Fergasun said: That should all be taken care of by private charity... private charity knows better and can operate more efficiently. Would that be private charity that isn't forced to help non white, non gay, non fundementalist christians (or insert religion du jour here)? To me there is a reason the government does it - it harder to corrupt government with senseless fake values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said: Would that be private charity that isn't forced to help non white, non gay, non fundementalist christians (or insert religion du jour here)? To me there is a reason the government does it - it harder to corrupt government with senseless fake values. Remember when "private charity" eradicated Jim Crow laws? Good times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 LSF your story was great. You should really write it up in a detailed manner and see if somewhere will publish it as an article, or as part of a larger article about experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 27 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said: LSF your story was great. You should really write it up in a detailed manner and see if somewhere will publish it as an article, or as part of a larger article about experiences. I might do this sometime, of course it's only part of the story. Weganator, your hypothetical about my motivation is so far off the mark and frankly insulting since you don't know me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weganator Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Definitely didn't mean for it to be a compliment. Whether or not you intended to, it sounds like you got upset at the Republicans for making you earn the living you are were capable of earning all along. I will stop being nasty for a bit after this, but hearing that I'm greedy and evil because you had to support yourself gets me and many others angry as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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