Force1958 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Llevron said: I agree with you 100% @Bang but part of me just wants to believe that arnt that stupid and they realize that they are going against their own interests and beliefs with this stuff. I feel like just about every single Trump fan or whatever you want to call republicans these days points out the same list of things they hate in the "dimms", like they hate the constitution, or they roll in identity politics, or they need safe spaces, or they dont believe in free speech on and on. I know I can give them easily provable examples of all those things being done by the repubs for the last 50 years and if I can just prove everyone is full of **** then we have a starting ground for learning....but I can never ****ing get there cause they are too dumb to stop talking and listen for a second. That **** kills me. I've always voted Republican and I guess I got that from my parents over the years. This past election though I listened to the candidates on both sides and grew to have a serious hatred for Trump. Over time as the GOP candidates dropped out and I realized he was going to be it, I decided to cast my vote toward the independent. I listened to the debates between Trump and Clinton and then decided there's no way I can handle any number of years with Hillary at the helm, so, I changed my mind at the last minute and voted for Trump. I guess you could say my vote didn't count as much since Va is a Dem state, but oh well, that's what I did. In the end I did approve of his plan for moving forward, shrinking the government (even though I worked for them for 35 years), giving people better and less costly options than Obamacare offered, etc, etc. So far I've been happy with the results. I like the transparency (sometimes he needs to tone down the tweets though), I like the way the economy is going, I feel he's handling our enemies the best he can between tariffs and engaging them to get to some common ground. We can debate the Iran deal until we're all blue in the face but everybody will have different views on this. I don't have hatred toward people that have democratic views, hell, half my family does and it's a challenge discussing politics with them. I'm not sure who specifically you're referring to when you mention "...if I could just prove everyone is full of **** then we have a starting ground for learning...but I can never get there cause they are too dumb to stop talking and listen for a second." If you're talking about all repubs you've run across on this forum I guess that'd be one thing, but if you're talking all repubs you've ever met than that's pretty sad. I'm not going anywhere and I'm willing to listen to opposite views, just to put it out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 27 minutes ago, Bang said: so long as i am not responsible for any explosions or mayhem ~Bang Nothing but love and truth bombs, homie 👊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, Force1958 said: In the end I did approve of his plan for moving forward, shrinking the government (even though I worked for them for 35 years), giving people better and less costly options than Obamacare offered, etc, etc. So far I've been happy with the results. I like the transparency (sometimes he needs to tone down the tweets though Literally none of this has been done. The deficit has exploded under him, no healthcare legislation was passed and he is factually the least transparent and most dishonest president in a long time. You are entitled to your opinions, but you are not entitled to making up your own reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 9 hours ago, Force1958 said: I'm not trying to be a dick, I legit would like to know. Okay, since you asked... Preface: You shouldn't take my position as that of most of the people on this board... There are plenty of people that have expressed interest in a civil debate on political issues, and specifically have complained that there are no Trump supporters willing to engage in that fashion. However... 1. In my case, I don't actually enjoy arguing about politics. I follow the threads because I have been in this community for almost 15 years, and it's a way to keep up with the news, as many people of diverse outlooks post news articles and tweets here. I too credit @visionary there, but for example while I disagree with at least some of @BenningRoadSkin's positions, he does post a lot of things that I might not otherwise be exposed to, and I find that valuable. You will note, though, if you go back through these threads that I rarely post myself. I tend to limit my more deep interactions to topics I am passionate about, such as personal finance (taxes spills over here, so I am a little more active), travel, and Biblical history. So, I don't see value in that sense. But... 2. Donald Trump is an existential threat to our country and its place in the world. His policies are not just terrible, but he is actively attempting to erode the institutions that keep our representative democracy secure, apparently in concert with a hostile foreign power. To me, this is obvious on its face, and anyone that either can't see it or chooses to ignore it has issues of one kind or another that makes engagement, in my view at least, pointless, if for no other reason than the Backfire effect: Real change of this kind of opinion requires a personal relationship that I don't have with any Trump supporters on this board, so given that engagement is only likely to intensify an already toxic worldview, I don't see a point (and I probably just reinforced yours, even with this little amount of interaction). But hey, you asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsFan44 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 4 hours ago, redskinss said: And now you're arguing with a trump supporter about whether or not it's possible to argue with a trump supporter. Not arguing, answering a question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, No Excuses said: Literally none of this has been done. The deficit has exploded under him, no healthcare legislation was passed and he is factually the least transparent and most dishonest president in a long time. You are entitled to your opinions, but you are not entitled to making up your own reality. Point of reference. The federal budget for 2016 (the first year before Trump was $3.9 trillion). https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52408 The federal budget for 2019 is projected to be $4.4 trillion. https://www.cbo.gov/system/files?file=2019-01/54918-Outlook.pdf (pg. 61). An increase of half a trillion dollars, per year, under Trump. This is just the spending. This does not take into account the giant hole he punched in the budget with the #TaxScam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force1958 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 2 hours ago, LD0506 said: Yeah I know, I get what both you and Llev are saying but hope springs eternal, yanno? I feel like there is an innate human reaction to try and give someone the benefit of the doubt even when that's difficult. You see someone raging in public and the first reactions are, what happened? Are they hurt? were they assaulted? Sick? ......something, anything before finally admitting that yes, once again, they are just an asshole with no self control and even less character. This is kinda why I floated the idea that I was not the one to try and talk Force off the ledge because I too am at the "push that ****er" point in my life but I am trying to be self aware enough to acknowledge that I come from a "stick him out on the ledge and THEN push his ass" POV so my instincts might be tainted. Maybe I was just ahead of my time in that, it remains to be seen. Don't worry, you don't need to force me off a ledge because I'm not on one. I've mentioned in a response here somewhere some of the things I don't like about Trump and how I ended up voting for him in the first place. I'm in the middle on some issues but most I side with Trump on, like immigration and border control. Some of the crap going on between both sides right now just makes me want to **** slap all of them. The hatred for Trump right now is holding back what needs to be discussed and ultimately voted on. The extreme left is talking about the New Green Deal when we should be trying to get the govt fully funded before the next fiscal year is upon us. Not all repubs are the same, you can give some of us the benefit of the doubt, well, it's up to you, but I'd like to feel you could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 “Immigration and border control”, huh? Color me shocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: An increase of half a trillion dollars. This is such a great example of how bad humans are at comprehending large numbers. I KNOW how much that is, but it still doesn't sound like much to me. THIS has real visceral impact, though... http://www.usdebtclock.org/ (Warning... do not click if you don't want to be depressed/scared) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 10 minutes ago, techboy said: This is such a great example of how bad humans are at comprehending large numbers. I KNOW how much that is, but it still doesn't sound like much to me. THIS has real visceral impact, though... http://www.usdebtclock.org/ (Warning... do not click if you don't want to be depressed/scared) Think in terms of time. 1 million seconds equal 11.5 days. 1 billion seconds equal 32 years. 1 trillion seconds equal 32,000 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force1958 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said: “Immigration and border control”, huh? Color me shocked. Yep, I believe the recommendations made by DHS and Homeland Security for the wall and enhanced security measures should be funded fully, I mean, that's not a shock I hope. All of the illegal aliens in the US already should be given a path to citizenship but the flooding of our borders that's happening now needs to stop, hence the wall and enhanced security measures. I should say all, unless they're proved to have a criminal record and that'll come up during their processing for citizenship. I can't believe anybody, Dem or GOP, would approve of having an open border. And if you think it can be handled with simply employing more agents and using drones, it won't happen. It isn't fake news when it's reported that areas along the border where there's already a wall has much fewer issues with crossings or crime. It's a deterrent and has nothing to do with morality on one side or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 12 minutes ago, techboy said: This is such a great example of how bad humans are at comprehending large numbers. I KNOW how much that is, but it still doesn't sound like much to me. THIS has real visceral impact, though... http://www.usdebtclock.org/ (Warning... do not click if you don't want to be depressed/scared) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force1958 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 19 minutes ago, RedskinsFan44 said: Not arguing, answering a question. That seems to be a common theme on this thread. When people respond to me everybody thinks its an argument. It's not. Wow, you all must have had some serious drive-by whacko conservatives pop in over the years!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Force1958 said: Yep, I believe the recommendations made by DHS and Homeland Security for the wall and enhanced security measures should be funded fully, I mean, that's not a shock I hope. All of the illegal aliens in the US already should be given a path to citizenship but the flooding of our borders that's happening now needs to stop, hence the wall and enhanced security measures. I should say all, unless they're proved to have a criminal record and that'll come up during their processing for citizenship. I can't believe anybody, Dem or GOP, would approve of having an open border. And if you think it can be handled with simply employing more agents and using drones, it won't happen. It isn't fake news when it's reported that areas along the border where there's already a wall has much fewer issues with crossings or crime. It's a deterrent and has nothing to do with morality on one side or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Force1958 said: Yep, I believe the recommendations made by DHS and Homeland Security for the wall and enhanced security measures should be funded fully, I mean, that's not a shock I hope. All of the illegal aliens in the US already should be given a path to citizenship but the flooding of our borders that's happening now needs to stop, hence the wall and enhanced security measures. I should say all, unless they're proved to have a criminal record and that'll come up during their processing for citizenship. I can't believe anybody, Dem or GOP, would approve of having an open border. And if you think it can be handled with simply employing more agents and using drones, it won't happen. It isn't fake news when it's reported that areas along the border where there's already a wall has much fewer issues with crossings or crime. It's a deterrent and has nothing to do with morality on one side or the other. We don't currently have an "open border". Congrats, you've been played by the POS in the White House and most of the rest of the GOP that supports him. Also, I have yet to hear a single Democrat argue for anything resembling "open borders". Even the notion we have a crisis involving illegal immigration is a complete fabrication. https://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2017/apr/26/ron-kind/yes-experiencing-net-outflow-illegal-undocumented-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Force1958 said: That seems to be a common theme on this thread. When people respond to me everybody thinks its an argument. It's not. Wow, you all must have had some serious drive-by whacko conservatives pop in over the years!!! YES IT IS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Force1958 said: I've always voted Republican and I guess I got that from my parents over the years. This past election though I listened to the candidates on both sides and grew to have a serious hatred for Trump. Over time as the GOP candidates dropped out and I realized he was going to be it, I decided to cast my vote toward the independent. I listened to the debates between Trump and Clinton and then decided there's no way I can handle any number of years with Hillary at the helm, so, I changed my mind at the last minute and voted for Trump. Honestly we agree here. I was never repub but I couldnt vote for Hilldog either (i didnt vote at all, took a knee, if you will). Though I understand now the reasons I couldnt were mostly outright lies. That Bengazi ****. I didnt even fully understand it, or try to, but I just knew it was bad. And now we have GOP senators flat out saying it was all an attempt to lower her polling numbers because they knew she would be president AND how "worth it" it was to go through all that trouble because it worked. I can find the clip for you if you havent seen it. Its crazy. He said it on the news it wasnt a candid thing. He flat out said it was all bull**** just to mess with her. Anyway.... 1 minute ago, Force1958 said: I guess you could say my vote didn't count as much since Va is a Dem state, but oh well, that's what I did. VA is technically blue yes, but its so close that your vote really did matter here. Unlike me in MD...I was confidant MD would go to Clinton anyway so I didnt feel bad about not voting. Maybe thats me just justifying it to myself though. 1 minute ago, Force1958 said: In the end I did approve of his plan for moving forward, shrinking the government (even though I worked for them for 35 years), giving people better and less costly options than Obamacare offered, etc, etc. So far I've been happy with the results. I like the transparency (sometimes he needs to tone down the tweets though), I like the way the economy is going, I feel he's handling our enemies the best he can between tariffs and engaging them to get to some common ground. We can debate the Iran deal until we're all blue in the face but everybody will have different views on this. The transparency part is where we disagree so much its hard to believe we are talking about the same guy. He lies every day to you. EVERY day. And usually its about things that are easily provable. How is that transparency in your eyes? Seriously, not chastising, what do you mean by that? Cause there is no way I could agree to that. Thats kinda what frustrates me. We also disagree on the treating of our enemies thing. We can agree to disagree here, but I would like to know if you thought Obama was weak in this regard compared to Trump? 1 minute ago, Force1958 said: I don't have hatred toward people that have democratic views, hell, half my family does and it's a challenge discussing politics with them. I'm not sure who specifically you're referring to when you mention "...if I could just prove everyone is full of **** then we have a starting ground for learning...but I can never get there cause they are too dumb to stop talking and listen for a second." If you're talking about all repubs you've run across on this forum I guess that'd be one thing, but if you're talking all repubs you've ever met than that's pretty sad. I'm not going anywhere and I'm willing to listen to opposite views, just to put it out there. Its been just about every republican I have ever spoken too, but understand that I keep this away from work so thats a large part of the republicans I know that I dont converse with. So alot of the people I talk to are either at bars I frequent or on the internet. Take that for what its worth. I actually dont speak with many Republicans on here at length that disagree with much of the Trump stuff with me believe it or not. The ones that do usually drive by and are gone in a week or two. Thats why you seem worth it to talk to. Cause if we can atleast come to an understanding of basic facts then maybe theres a chance for the others. Understand, my intent is to change your mind. If you are not atleast willing to try to see me half way we are wasting our time and ill just get annoyed and become a dick at some point. (its a personal flaw, im working on it) Who knows! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force1958 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: YES IT IS. Well, my views could change, you never know. That's why I'm willing to listen to what you all say. I won't respond to everything, but I'm reading and trying to apply how you all feel to what I believe in. It's not an argument for me. If we share thoughts then just maybe one of us will move on their position one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 We don’t have “open borders” and we don’t have a “crisis” at the Southern border. But...we DO HAVE a reality TV president that has made racist fear-mongering and dog-whistling the central theme of his campaign. And that strategy is very effective with low-income, low-education, rural white voters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Looks like Trump is losing one of his bosses- Ann Coulter: Ann Coulter: 'Lunatic' Trump could be challenged in 2020 — from the right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, Force1958 said: Well, my views could change, you never know. That's why I'm willing to listen to what you all say. I won't respond to everything, but I'm reading and trying to apply how you all feel to what I believe in. It's not an argument for me. If we share thoughts then just maybe one of us will move on their position one way or the other. You're literally repeating talking points that have been proven as complete fabrications and then trying to act like you want to have an honest conversation. It doesn't really work like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 9 minutes ago, Force1958 said: Well, my views could change, you never know. That's why I'm willing to listen to what you all say. I won't respond to everything, but I'm reading and trying to apply how you all feel to what I believe in. It's not an argument for me. If we share thoughts then just maybe one of us will move on their position one way or the other. He was joking lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said: Looks like Trump is losing one of his bosses- Ann Coulter: Ann Coulter: 'Lunatic' Trump could be challenged in 2020 — from the right Does Coulter have some investment in wall construction company or something? Trump is too liberal for her? Wow.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Voting for Trump in 2016 is one thing........(I will avoid going there for now......) Voting to re-elect him is an entirely other thing. Especially if the Dems do what they always do which is shed any possible candidate that is seen as progressive. If Joe Biden ends up as Trump's challenger, there is little to no excuse for anyone claiming to be "middle of the road" to even entertain the idea of voting for Trump unless they are lying about being "middle of the road" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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