SoulSkin Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Of course Lee is considered a great general. I just thought it was a tad odd he's in Ohio talking about Abraham Lincoln developing a phobia, and going crazy, and coming home saying "I can't beat Lee!" and he's got all these great generals at the top of their class at West Point. They were the best people. But ya know they didn't know how to win. Perfectly normal behavior for a president holding a freaking pep rally, I guess. I stand by my Drunk History comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 8 hours ago, Larry said: I was under the impression that Lee was a great general. I was under the impression that Lee lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Lee was a traitor. as was every man who fought with him. Losers in every sense of the word. Oh, those were your ancestors and you're proud of that? Your family should have taught you better. You're going to lose again, but this time, you'll die because of that fat traitor who has played you like the dumb**** hick loser you are. The same ignorant hick-**** loser your ancestors were. You'll die because it amuses his Russian masters and is what they want you to do. (they actually don't care who dies, so long as it's Americans doing it to Americans. And we will. You, oh proud confederate fantasizer.. YOU will. You already hate your fellow Americans more than anyone else on Earth.) Imagine how proud your descendants will be. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 11 hours ago, Larry said: I was under the impression that Lee was a great general. No, not really...thank God. He was probably the most responsible for the South losing...so at least he was great for America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Lee was a great general, and war takes two sides. Both sides thought they were fighting for America so I wouldn’t consider him a traitor. People using dead men to divide us, however, are traitors. @SoulSkin has it the most correct, imo. 56 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said: He was probably the most responsible for the South losing...so at least he was great for America. Yea, I mean, if he would have only been a war criminal, like Sherman, burning entire cities. Terrible in that respect, as there is no honor in war, you are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Lee was a great general, and war takes two sides. Both sides thought they were fighting for America so I wouldn’t consider him a traitor. People using dead men to divide us, however, are traitors. @SoulSkin has it the most correct, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Bang said: Lee was a traitor as was every man who fought with him. In that sense, George Washington and every American who fought in the revolutionary war was a traitor also. Of course, it wouldn’t be unfair to point out that one was fighting for freedom and the other was fighting for slavery… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Not really, Washington was a colonist. A subject. He rebelled against distant rule he had no say in. Confederate man was a citizen. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 9 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: People using _____ to divide us, however, are traitors. Agree with you here. Doesn’t have to be dead men... we could put any number of things that people are using to divide the country in that sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: Agree with you here. Doesn’t have to be dead men... we could put any number of things that people are using to divide the country in that sentence. Basic facts are currently dividing the country tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Douchebags. All of them. I'm guessing this is why Trump doesn't want to relaese his too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulSkin Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Lee can be seen as a respected general, and having fought for a terrible cause. For me, the nuance point that people make by saying different times make it hard to judge a person from a different era is understandable, but it doesn't mean it's hard judge the actual "cause", and it's effects. That's pretty easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Going to go out ona limb and say Kushner isn't part of the 47% that Mitt Romney was talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 The CSA was absolutely not “fighting for America”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 50 minutes ago, StillUnknown said: Basic facts are currently dividing the country tho As is basic fiction. Also, facts don’t necessarily need to divide people. It could be that the people who are taking a knee during the national anthem are well intentioned and actually deserve to be listened to. It could also be that the people who are offended by that are well intentioned and deserve to be listened to. Instead of trying To have a conversation about it though, people are using that to manipulate us into hating each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 I hate that factual things are dividing people. We can have a debate about how to interpret or analyze certain things but without a basic agreement on underlying reality it's just impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailSkins90 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 As a southerner who's also a liberal, I have a complicated view of Lee. Personally, and I think Lee would agree with me on this, I think it's terribly sad that his legacy is that of the General and not of the gentleman. Lee's post war record is one that all southerners should know and celebrate. It's a record of reconciliation and moving forward and leaving the conflict behind. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 13 minutes ago, HailSkins90 said: As a southerner who's also a liberal, I have a complicated view of Lee. Personally, and I think Lee would agree with me on this, I think it's terribly sad that his legacy is that of the General and not of the gentleman. Lee's post war record is one that all southerners should know and celebrate. It's a record of reconciliation and moving forward and leaving the conflict behind. Just my 2 cents. Much like Rudolph Hess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: In that sense, George Washington and every American who fought in the revolutionary war was a traitor also. Of course Washington was a traitor to the crown All the founding fathers expected to be hung should they lose. Lee was absolutely a traitor to his country and all his followers were as well. If they won they would not be citizens of the United States. They warred against their birth country... can’t get much more treasonous than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailSkins90 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 28 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said: Much like Rudolph Hess. I'll be honest, after having read a bit about this man I don't see the connection. Do you even know what Lee was up to after the war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 10 minutes ago, HailSkins90 said: I'll be honest, after having read a bit about this man I don't see the connection. Do you even know what Lee was up to after the war? They’re both murderous white supremacists who tried to polish their image when it became clear the cause was lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailSkins90 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 1 minute ago, TryTheBeal! said: They’re both murderous white supremacists who tried to polish their image when it became clear the cause was lost. Well then, I don't think it's worth further discussing because you clearly have an agenda rather than a relationship with history. Lee's post war legacy was about encouraging loyalty to the United States, forgetting about the quarrels of the war, and running Washington College in Lexington, VA. I'd encourage you to read a book, or if you're more interested in watching something, this series from PBS would be good: http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/feature/lee-after-the-war/ History is complicated and messy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 19 minutes ago, HailSkins90 said: Well then, I don't think it's worth further discussing because you clearly have an agenda rather than a relationship with history. Lee's post war legacy was about encouraging loyalty to the United States, forgetting about the quarrels of the war, and running Washington College in Lexington, VA. I'd encourage you to read a book, or if you're more interested in watching something, this series from PBS would be good: http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/feature/lee-after-the-war/ History is complicated and messy. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/the-myth-of-the-kindly-general-lee/529038/ Compicated and messy. I think it however a greater evil to the white man than to the black race, & while my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more strong for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially & physically. The painful discipline they are undergoing, is necessary for their instruction as a race, & I hope will prepare & lead them to better things. How long their subjugation may be necessary is known & ordered by a wise Merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild & melting influence of Christianity, than the storms & tempests of fiery Controversy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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