Diehard Otis Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 I view Scot's tenure here holistically. And in that vein, he's done a fine job in DC. I have no problem with his signings - hell, you Win some & you lose some. The point here is to acquire difference making talent. And yes, he is doing so. If he misses on a guy or two, that's simply the nature of mining for talent. The question in my mind is 'has the overall talent on the team improved?' The answer is yes. But that's not the area where he has shined the most. For all of us outside of Redskins Park, we have certainly seen a "culture change". Now The Team is competitive every Sunday & (most times) puts itself in a position to Win football games with regularity. This development is a byproduct of a perform-or-we-can't-use-ya attitude organizationally. And it has produced results. Molding our boys into a plucky, physical, competitive group that is Winning is his (& Jay Gruden's) signature achievement. And I couldn't be more pleased. McCloughan has done well here. The early returns have been heartening: & there's still plenty more football left to be played. He's gonna stick around for awhile. ************************************************************************************************************** @thesubmittedone & @goskins10 I read that Brewer piece the other day too. And yes, my ears perked when I read about the factionalism stuff too. But then I thought about it. Our MO around The League (& with the DC Press) is that The Redskins are team turmoil. So whether we like it or not, our team viewed through that looking glass. Obviously, Winning consistently will change that, although my opinion is that this (now)flawed perception is changing. When reading the column in context, I believe Brewer is simply making the point that stacking another positive season on top of last year will stop the impulse of Snyder & his loyalists to refrain from behaving rashly & ****ing up The Organization's progress. I don't know the likelihood of them acting impulsively, but he addressed it nonetheless. It seems more of a 'things can still be screwed up' observation. And given Brewer's pedigree of covering the building of a Super Bowl Contender in his last stop (Seattle), I'm willing to digest his thoughts with an open mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 18 minutes ago, Diehard Otis said: Edit... ************************************************************************************************************** @thesubmittedone & @goskins10 I read that Brewer piece the other day too. And yes, my ears perked when I read about the factionalism stuff too. But then I thought about it. Our MO around The League (& with the DC Press) is that The Redskins are team turmoil. So whether we like it or not, our team viewed through that looking glass. Obviously, Winning consistently will change that, although my opinion is that this (now)flawed perception is changing. When reading the column in context, I believe Brewer is simply making the point that stacking another positive season on top of last year will stop the impulse of Snyder & his loyalists to refrain from behaving rashly & ****ing up The Organization's progress. I don't know the likelihood of them acting impulsively, but he addressed it nonetheless. It seems more of a 'things can still be screwed up' observation. And given Brewer's pedigree of covering the building of a Super Bowl Contender in his last stop (Seattle), I'm willing to digest his thoughts with an open mind. I understand what you are saying but I disagree with "in context" analogy. He did this for click bait (and it worked). He and others in the media plan to ride this narrative until well after it's true. How about being a local reporter write a story that while the national narrative is that of constant dysfunction, it's not the truth? The reason it that does not increase clicks. It's more profitable to feed into the national narrative even though it's total bull****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diehard Otis Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 1 minute ago, goskins10 said: I understand what you are saying but I disagree with "in context" analogy. He did this for click bait (and it worked). He and others in the media plan to ride this narrative until well after it's true. How about being a local reporter write a story that while the national narrative is that of constant dysfunction, it's not the truth? The reason it that does not increase clicks. It's more profitable to feed into the national narrative even though it's total bull****. It does appear that we disagree on his intent in writing that portion of his column; but overall, I agree with you. I'm sure we've all tired of those trite, totally ignorant ESPN comments on The Skins that don't even match reality. But I check for Brewer's take after the game (most times), & I think he's been fair. He doesn't strike me as a writer with an axe to grind against Snyder or anything. However, I wouldn't be surprised in the least to learn that the sports editor at The Post demanded a little more "sizzle" to his column. Now that does happen too often with the DC Press's Skins coverage in order to sell papers. I'm sick of being baited like that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 12 minutes ago, Diehard Otis said: It does appear that we disagree on his intent in writing that portion of his column; but overall, I agree with you. I'm sure we've all tired of those trite, totally ignorant ESPN comments on The Skins that don't even match reality. But I check for Brewer's take after the game (most times), & I think he's been fair. He doesn't strike me as a writer with an axe to grind against Snyder or anything. However, I wouldn't be surprised in the least to learn that the sports editor at The Post demanded a little more "sizzle" to his column. Now that does happen too often with the DC Press's Skins coverage in order to sell papers. I'm sick of being baited like that as well. I am not saying it's an ax to grind as much as a quick and dirty way to get some cheap clicks. Maybe he was pressed by his editor. I could be wrong. But I have seen it too much. But still, it was cheap journalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 4 hours ago, goskins10 said: They are the lowest form a scum. And this brewer clown is just another one of them. That's why I was frustrated by this. Brewer is not like that. At least he hasn't been thus far. What happened to make him say that? A little concerning, but like I said, hopefully he just went to the darkside a little bit and isn't saying anything of truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxSpearheadxX Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Give the man WHATEVER he wants/needs. Period. End of discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBeast Posted November 13, 2016 Author Share Posted November 13, 2016 I think Spearhead means lock him up? ? Edit: This next season will be an interesting tale. Will he stick to the plan or go for the gusto? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncr2h Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 9 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said: I am a big SM fan but I'm not ready to put the improved record over the last 2 years soley on him. IMO the biggest reason for the improvement was the change at QB and in pass protection and every player except Scherff was acquired during the Shanny regime. In fact when you evaluate the top producers on this team nearly every one was on the team before he arrived, Crowder being one of the few exceptions. Too early to evaluate his drafts but to date they were OK but nothing special. Scherff was a safe pick and for every Crowder we have Matt Jones. And of course once we remove the 2 FAs that fell in his lap (Djax and Norman) we are left to evaluate the signings of Paea, Jeron Johnson, Knighton, Culliver, RJF, Kendall Reyes, and Bruton. And that don't look so good. His in-season acquisitions however have been great. Again I'm a big fan and signing him is a no-brainer. Just offering a little perspective. Agreed. Upgrading the QB position with a guy who's a top 10 guy, when previously you were rolling with a guy who would struggle to lock down a starting job on the Browns, is probably the biggest reason we are on the upswing. It's hard to give McLoughan full credit on that, as I think it was more of a Gruden move, but I will at least tip my hat to McLoughan for creating an environment where Gruden felt like he could make that change. Scot hasn't added very much top tier talent to this team, but I have to recognize that a lot of the games we are winning are at least in part to our team's #44-53 guys on the roster being better than the other teams'. Just look at the Vikings game - Williams goes down, and we're able to trot out Ty Nsekhe and basically not miss a beat. Moses goes down and we don't miss a beat. Rob Kelley is a solid NFL starting RB. Fuller got exploited today but overall has been a solid player. Cravens has come in and made plays. So I think my response to your post would be that you're right, but I'd still give McLoughan solid marks and I think the draft is enough of a crapshoot (even for top tier teams) that the fact that his drafts haven't blown us away could be just due to small sample size. I would be happy if we locked him up for an even longer contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 2 hours ago, RedBeast said: Will he stick to the plan or go for the gusto? The plan, all along, may have been to go for the gusto in 2017, though. There is evidence pointing to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 ;Wow. I am just befuddled that a thread like this is even needed right now. 2 years into the new GM's tenure and we are wondering if he should be re-upped? Seriously if Snyder is too thick-headed to see the change in the trajectory in this franchise since SM took over I just don't know what to say. For a different perspective, I live in NorCal and on sports radio every Monday they are talking about where the 49ers went wrong, and they keep bringing up how the the 49ers were trending up while SM was building them and peaked due to his picks, and then ever since he left they were sort of in neutral and then decline. I am not even sure what his current contract looks like, but the franchise overall looks brighter than it has in a long time, especially the long term prospects. For it to even be suggested that we should start over with a new front office captain right NOW? Blasphemy. That would likely be the final nail in the "Snyder has finally come around" coffin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COWBOY-KILLA- Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Sign him up long term stay out of his way. Dude knows what he's doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 1 hour ago, ncr2h said: Agreed. Upgrading the QB position with a guy who's a top 10 guy, when previously you were rolling with a guy who would struggle to lock down a starting job on the Browns, is probably the biggest reason we are on the upswing. It's hard to give McLoughan full credit on that, as I think it was more of a Gruden move, but I will at least tip my hat to McLoughan for creating an environment where Gruden felt like he could make that change. Scot hasn't added very much top tier talent to this team, but I have to recognize that a lot of the games we are winning are at least in part to our team's #44-53 guys on the roster being better than the other teams'. Just look at the Vikings game - Williams goes down, and we're able to trot out Ty Nsekhe and basically not miss a beat. Moses goes down and we don't miss a beat. Rob Kelley is a solid NFL starting RB. Fuller got exploited today but overall has been a solid player. Cravens has come in and made plays. So I think my response to your post would be that you're right, but I'd still give McLoughan solid marks and I think the draft is enough of a crapshoot (even for top tier teams) that the fact that his drafts haven't blown us away could be just due to small sample size. I would be happy if we locked him up for an even longer contract. I think in a couple years you'll see some stars come out of his drafts. Crowder looks like Antoino Brown-lite. Sua Cravens once he figures it out will be a beast. I still really like Preston Smith. Brandon Scherff might already be the best G in football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 On 11/12/2016 at 1:55 PM, Wildbunny said: I'm getting bored reading that kind of comments around here... It's been clear from the beginning that Scott do the work on the players, and the coaching staff is up to Jay. He told it numerous times when he arrived here, leaving the DC position to Jay, as well as any other position coaches. I believe the fact that Callahan is here as more to do with Jay wanting him, that Scott bringing him here. Agree with this. I will say that it wouldn't surprise me though if having SM on board made landing Callahan easier - i.e. convincing Gruden that Callahan was a good hire, convincing Allen/Snyder to pay him, and showing Callahan that this team meant business with SM at the helm. Still, it's been made clear that it was Gruden's choice and it was a good one - he absolutely deserves (the?) credit for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 14 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said: I am a big SM fan but I'm not ready to put the improved record over the last 2 years soley on him. IMO the biggest reason for the improvement was the change at QB and in pass protection and every player except Scherff was acquired during the Shanny regime. Moses and Long weren't part of Shanahan's regime. And that's just the OLine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 I like what he's done for the most part But I dislike his treatment of the d-line and I question some of his opinions on free agents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 8 hours ago, Califan007 said: Moses and Long weren't part of Shanahan's regime. And that's just the OLine. OK I misspoke, should have said they were here prior to SM. Doesn't chamge my point at all which was most all of the players responsible for the turnaround were already on the team when SM was hired. 12 hours ago, NoCalMike said: ;Wow. I am just befuddled that a thread like this is even needed right now. 2 years into the new GM's tenure and we are wondering if he should be re-upped? Seriously if Snyder is too thick-headed to see the change in the trajectory in this franchise since SM took over I just don't know what to say. How many were wonderijg if he should be retained? From what I read nearly all of us think that is a no-brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 13 hours ago, ncr2h said: Agreed. Upgrading the QB position with a guy who's a top 10 guy, when previously you were rolling with a guy who would struggle to lock down a starting job on the Browns, is probably the biggest reason we are on the upswing. It's hard to give McLoughan full credit on that, as I think it was more of a Gruden move, but I will at least tip my hat to McLoughan for creating an environment where Gruden felt like he could make that change. Scot hasn't added very much top tier talent to this team, but I have to recognize that a lot of the games we are winning are at least in part to our team's #44-53 guys on the roster being better than the other teams'. Just look at the Vikings game - Williams goes down, and we're able to trot out Ty Nsekhe and basically not miss a beat. Moses goes down and we don't miss a beat. Rob Kelley is a solid NFL starting RB. Fuller got exploited today but overall has been a solid player. Cravens has come in and made plays. So I think my response to your post would be that you're right, but I'd still give McLoughan solid marks and I think the draft is enough of a crapshoot (even for top tier teams) that the fact that his drafts haven't blown us away could be just due to small sample size. I would be happy if we locked him up for an even longer contract. Totally agree with you but I do think it's fair to point out that this turnaround was not all SM. But he has armed himself with additional picks next year, he could very well have a killer draft which will pay off big in 2-3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campfodder Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 Who scored the TD's today? Vernon & Jamison Who ended the game defensively? Preston Smith Scot's guy won us a game today. Again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markmills67 Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 7 hours ago, carex said: I like what he's done for the most part But I dislike his treatment of the d-line and I question some of his opinions on free agents I expect massive investment in the DL both in the draft and free -agency, we only need a couple of upgrades on offence, and mccloughan free agents have been ok but we all knew they where stop gaps apart from Baker. We have about $70m in cap space, so let's see what big mac is like with money in his pockets. HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBeast Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 Its not whether the turnaround is all about the GM or not, rather that he is halfway through his contract and we need to start evaluating whether to resign him. Evaluate his performance at his position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panninho Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 What I like about our roster is that we seem to have a very good amount of solid players. We might lack some top-notch talent but that helps us to replace players. We obviously do not have that one player on offense (probably besides Cousins) that is irreplaceable. Reed was out for 2 games, didn't hurt us a lot because Davis stepped up. Desean Jackson is out, didn't hurt us a lot because we still have very solid WRs in Garcon and Crowder and 2 outstanding TEs. Trent is out and it didn't hurt as at all because Ty stepped up. Matt Jones is out, Fat Rob stepped up and probably was better. Our first round pick WR is more or less out for the entire season, don't miss him a lot. I think that is true for almost every player on offense if you look at them individually. We have decent depth and (what probably is the best sign) we are not reliable on single players. On defense we would probably have problems to replace Chris Baker and Josh Norman but besides those two it's still a very balanced talent level (on a lower level than on the offensive side though). Bruton is out and Whitner/Ihenacho step up, Hall is out and Blackmon steps up, Phillips is out and Fuller steps up, etc. What you often see is that units fall apart if their best 1-2 players are out. I don't see this happening to us because we are not as dependent on some players as a lot of other teams. Minus the quarterback and Josh Norman we can probably replace every player (as long as it's not too many at once) and still play on a comparable level. This should not mean that we should not try to get more top-notch players but for the first time in a good amount of time we seem to have a lot of players behind our starters that can step up if needed. I think this is due to the consistency in the coaching staff as well as to a roster that is obviously being build by getting the right players for the schemes - talent-wise and character-wise. With 10 draft picks next year we can add a lot of talent to that great foundation and I am really looking forward to that. Sure, we have to pay Cousins and I hope we will keep Chris Baker and one out of Garcon/Jackson (I would prefer Garcon) but besides that only Vernon Davis and Whitner/Ihenacho are players with significant roles that are UFA after that year. Considering our cap space of around 60 mio. we should be able to keep most of them if we want as I don't think any of these players is in for a huge pay-day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 5 minutes ago, RedBeast said: Its not whether the turnaround is all about the GM or not, rather that he is halfway through his contract and we need to start evaluating whether to resign him. Evaluate his performance at his position. That's fair and yet not. After all, people say it takes a couple of years for most draft picks to emerge. So, are we grading the drafts before they have matured? What I think Scott does better than any GM in the NFL is found art. He goes dumpster diving and finds a player or two that no one wanted, signs him, and the guy a week later is starting and performing better than the starter, back ups, and is legit. Happened several times last year and happened again with Whittier this year. I don't think it's something to be relied on, but Scott keeps finding these guys not good enough to be on any NFL roster and plucks them midseason and suddenly they are players. As for his drafts, his first seemed better than his seconds, but that's probably because the first rounder seems to have busted. Then again, if Kelly is okay, and some of the other udfas contribute, plus you have Sua and Fuller... you can't complain too much about the haul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 Gruden and McVay deserve a ton of credit too. And I'm curious if SM lets Kirk walk next year if people will still heap praise his way in a "he can do no wrong" type of way. Because, while I do think we need to keep him here long term, that would be a huge mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Probos Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 This team isn't where it needs to be yet. I think he's a very good GM and needs more time. Would be great to extend him at the end of this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 1 hour ago, campfodder said: Who scored the TD's today? Vernon & Jamison Who ended the game defensively? Preston Smith Scot's guy won us a game today. Again Who scored all the 2nd half points? Dustin Hopkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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