Scott McCloughan: Honest Evaluation and Contract Renewal

[Thinking Skins]

On 11/13/2016 at 0:38 AM, thesubmittedone said:

Anyone read this from Jerry Brewer? 

 

There are bits in there that made me sick to my stomach. Now, Jerry Brewer hasn't been known to be a pot-stirrer, but I'm hoping that's exactly what he's doing here. Last thing I want to here is we've got "factions" and ****. 

Here's what I'm mainly talking about from the article: 

 

Just frustrating to read that crap, honestly. I'm going to go with the thought that he's full of it here so I can sleep good, lol. 

 

I read that and I kinda get the opposite feeling, and its mainly because of the trust I have in Bruce Allen. I've been high on his hire since we brought in Shanny. Before then I was all in for a "GM" title. I was even excited when we gave Vinny the GM title since we could finally judge him based on the moves rather than him giving some excuse like "it was a mutual decision between ...". But with Allen being GM meant we had a guy who made it work in Oakland and to a lesser extent Tampa. He was criticized for not being a personnel guy but he had connections and he knew how to work with impatient owners. Then he recognized what fans and media were saying about himself and said that he's probably not the best guy to be running the draft, so he went out and hired the best guy to do that.

In terms of the power structure, this sounds like how it is with many teams. We've heard some basic rumblings like Scot is over the draft & players, Jay is over gameday and coaches. I'm sure there is a lot of discussion in terms of player contracts and areas to address (in FA and the draft), whether to fire coaches, how aggressive to be with FAs, etc. But most teams have a similar power structure (some call it a power struggle when you have something like what's going on with Kirk happening), and the way that a coach like Gibbs ultimately won and was able to have more of an impact on personnel is by having a winning record and having the owner (or I'd think that for us it'd be Bruce) ultimately decide that it was more important to keep him happy than Bobby.

We've seen how most coaches (outside of Parcells and Angry Bill) can't handle both the GM and Coaching duties. And I think that Bruce has done a great job setting up a system with people he trusts and who trust him to make that tie-breaking decision. People like to act like he's on the same level as Vinny but this is a dude that bleeds football and football knowledge and knows how to run a successful operation as we've seen in Oakland, Tampa and now here.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

9 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 People like to act like he's on the same level as Vinny but this is a dude that bleeds football and football knowledge and knows how to run a successful operation as we've seen in Oakland, Tampa and now here.

You mean he's responsible for more than the Harvest Festival? lol...

Allen's one and only draft for the Skins resulted in the top 4 picks becoming starters (Murphy, Moses, Long, Breeland). Not bad for a guy damn near everyone here "criticized for not being a personnel guy".

[TSO]

@Thinking Skins Yeah, I agree and have constantly stated I'm pleased we have a normal structure and heirarchy organizationally, but that's not the problem with that article.

Read the follow up posts I have here regarding that. No one is going to tell me that what Brewer is describing is healthy. There is a difference between heirarchy and "factions". He's not describing a stable FO and even says so. 

Like I said, hopefully he just pulled that out of his you know what. It seems like he did and is just exaggerating the fact that there are differing opinions within the organization, which is normal. 

As for Allen, you don't need to defend him against me or anything. He's perfect in his role as Team President, in my opinion. He recognized he's not a great personnel guy (saying so himself) and pretty much allowed Campbell to run the 2014 draft and, when it was obvious they needed to do better, hired Scot - our first legit GM/talent-evaluator. 

My only criticism of him was during the Shanahan-Snyder PR war and general fiasco at the end of 2013. His main role was to be a buffer between owner and coach there and he failed miserably. That being said, who hasn't here?  

He is definitely no Vinny. I didn't pile on him like so many did after that press conference he gave after the 2014 season, I just wanted us to finally hire a legit GM and he did just that. He understood what his role within the organization should be and implemented that. That's very impressive to me. 

[Riggo-toni]

Beathard and Gibbs had some bitter nasty fights over personnel, with JKC having to be the tiebreaker. When Cooke let Gibbs trade a first and a third for Gerald Riggs, whom Beathard correctly believed what past his prime, Beathard saw which way the tide was turning and resigned.

A proper functional football franchise has a hierarchy structure like what we've FINALLY put in place. McC should be making all the personnel acquisition and cap decisions and Gruden should pick his coaches and decide who makes the roster and who plays. 

[Thinking Skins]

On 11/14/2016 at 8:31 AM, thesubmittedone said:

@Thinking Skins Yeah, I agree and have constantly stated I'm pleased we have a normal structure and heirarchy organizationally, but that's not the problem with that article.

Read the follow up posts I have here regarding that. No one is going to tell me that what Brewer is describing is healthy. There is a difference between heirarchy and "factions". He's not describing a stable FO and even says so. 

I saw the follow up posts (after my initial post), but I can't comment in the internal workings of the FO and what Brewer is describing. It could be something or it could be nothing. Maybe its a few scouts or some lower level guys? Maybe there's still some tension about the RG3 stuff. I don't know. But I just know that going forward I feel like we are a team that's going to be in the thick of things and its largely because of our FO structure. I think Gruden is going to be the first coach to get an extension since Norv and that will impact the free agents we can get and the assistant coaches we can go after as well as the general media perception.

My one fear right now is that we've been so committed to building an offense (Jay's strength) that I don't want to become like Norv's teams or like GB is right now, or a bunch of other teams that are built to have good offenses but ignore their defenses. We went WR in the first and we're all saying it was BPA but in the back of my mind I still wonder about some of the guys we passed up between 21 and 42. Not seeing any superstars, but I hope that we don't continue to be a top 10 offense and a bottom 10 defense.

[Hail2theSkins24]

 On Twitter and some on here have questioned GMSM, especially after our first 4 games where we showed glaring weaknesses. Scot has made a few mistakes, like every single GM out there has. I look at it this way, is our team in better shape now (2 yrs later) than it was before Scot arrived? We all know the answer to this, I hope Scot is here for another decade. 

[TheGreek1973]

What I love about Scott is how he picks FA during the season to help out this team.  Some of his picks have been very very good, for example Vernon Davis.  I know he was picked in the off season but still what an awesome addition he has been.  Now he has  missed on some, Jones is the glaring miss IMO.  But getting Kelly in here has corrected that mistake I think.

[Warhead36]

20 minutes ago, TheGreek1973 said:

What I love about Scott is how he picks FA during the season to help out this team.  Some of his picks have been very very good, for example Vernon Davis.  I know he was picked in the off season but still what an awesome addition he has been.  Now he has  missed on some, Jones is the glaring miss IMO.  But getting Kelly in here has corrected that mistake I think.

I don't think Jones was that bad of a pick. I mean for a 3rd rounder he's had some good games. Couple 100+ yard games last year, 150 yard game this year. Its not like he's been a total bust like some of our past mid round picks.

[TSO]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

But I just know that going forward I feel like we are a team that's going to be in the thick of things and its largely because of our FO structure. I think Gruden is going to be the first coach to get an extension since Norv and that will impact the free agents we can get and the assistant coaches we can go after as well as the general media perception.

 

Feel the same way, too, which is why I was annoyed by Brewer's description, you know?  

[bobandweave]

There are Redskins fans out there who are unhappy with Scot? I never knew that, also do not understand that much at all. I always knew there were other teams fans who weren't very happy with Scot being here though

Seriously for the first time in maybe my 40+ years of being a die hard fan of this team or maybe I can remember this team has

Franchise QB - Check

Functional Front Office - Check

Control over itself and the salary cap - Check

Team based on young guys not old players - Check

Bright future - Check

Now things here aren't perfect yet but are they going in the right direction? Hell yes they are. Keep Scot? Hell I say make him a Kings throne and give him a 10 year iron clad contract at this point. Keep Bruce if Dan likes him, it keeps Dan away from this.I love the direction and what I see from this team

[Skinsinparadise]

On 11/12/2016 at 4:11 PM, goskins10 said:

 

It's interesting that anything good that happens is due to Scot and anything bad is due to Jay. Those 2 are in complete lock step. Scot is getting the type of players Jay wants - end of story. He just is really good at getting the players that Jay wants that are also just good football players. They both have their strengths. This is why it is working.

And to your point the coaching staff is entirely up to Jay. Not sure why this is such a hard concept to understand. Face it those who hate Jay - he is a pretty damn good HC!

 

I was thinking about where to launch this but I figured this is a good starting point.  I won an auction which had me meet Scot McCloughan.  And I spent 2 hours with him last Friday and I learned a lot. I peppered him with questions. It was amazing.  He was a super cool dude.  And he took some of the mystery out of the operations for me.  It was clear to me listening to him -- he's last say on personnel even if others disagree.

Just some tidbits for those interested.  The typical day for him is 6:30 am to 8 pm.   2 things that surprised me a little about what he does in a typical week -- he does a lot of help on film study in preparation for the week's game, watches practice on film, etc.  He actually does find the time to watch in person college football during the season.  Just for fun, I threw some players at him for the upcoming draft, and he had something to say about everyone of them -- many of whom he's already seen play in person.   I left it thinking it would be an understatement to say we are in good hands.   This dude is Rain Man savant level in terms of knowing college players.  I always thought it was comical that a few stragglers on the board challenge Scot's acumen on the draft for choosing this guy over that guy -- and spending some time with him, it makes that all seem even more absurd.  I don't care how many times we watch player such and such on NFLbreakdown.com -- its a fraction of what he knows if even that.   I asked him when does he go full gear on the draft -- he told me he's been full gear on the draft for quite some time already and already has a strong handle on the top 60 players in the draft.  

Is Scot getting the type of players Jay wants?  Yes and No.   But mostly, yes.  He talked to me about overruling Jay at times on personnel when it came to the draft. He says they have their share of disagreements.  But by and large he aims to please.  And he considers Jay in his own right a good evaluator.  On threads, I often see two points of view about Scot and Jay.  1.  Scot loves Jay as a HC, that's his dude through thick and thin.  And for those who love Scot and don't like Jay, deal with the reality of this marriage.  2.  Scot is so more competent than Jay -- and some day Scot will fire him and get his guy to be HC.    

I didn't get the vibe that other point is right on the money outside of Scot really digs Jay as a person and if I had to pick a position I'd go with pro Jay.   After spending time with him and asking him many questions, I just didn't get the vibe that Scot is the type who easily gets infatuated (with some exceptions ala some players like Scherff) with anyone whether its a coach or player as to performance.   He's looking to improve everywhere and no one is totally safe in that regard. 

The thing though I took more than anything from meeting him is what a cool guy he is.   I met him with my kids -- he was super cool with them, showed us around Redskins Park.   He was so forthright and easy going.   I can see why one of his niches is reading into player's motivations and digging into their personality.  The dude oozes charisma.  And to me he comes off so frank (think of the opposite of Shanny who plays politics) that its disarming -- where I can see players reciprocating in kind.

Among his draft picks he thinks Scherff, Crowder, Cravens are pro bowl to be studs.  Doctson, too. And for a guy who hasn't been here long -- he's very into this team and its history.  Got him going on stuff like Dallas fans in the DMV, etc.  But yeah he comes off like us as if he's been a fan of this team forever (even though that's clearly not the case).  He talked about ultimately winning the Superbowl and when he said it, he said it with resolve -- it didn't come off like hollow feel good rhetoric.

[skinny21]

That is just plain awesome SIP.  Thanks for sharing... not sure that there's a better poster to serve as 'ES ambassador for a day'.

[RedBeast]

@Skinsinparadise How cool was that! Wow. Where did you win the auction from, work? Must have been a really great and unique experience. Also great that you could take your kids with you! I hope we win him over and he becomes a Redskin for life. Did you get the names of the top 60? LOL! Any insight on next years draft?

When I started this thread, I knew that there are a lot of moving and integrated pieces (i.e. Front Office, Owner, President, GM, Coach, etc.) who all have input into where who we are as a team. I really wanted to just focus on GMSM, and his work to date. Many good points have been made here, e.g his draft prowess, good at finding diamonds in the rough, bringing in players off the street that perform, his impact on the entire locker room attitude, etc. Also some negative points have been made, not every swing is going to be a home run or a hit, he will strike out on some, lack of attention to defensive line this past year, etc.

Regarding evaluating him half way through his term?  I think it is fair and honest. I agree that this team is on the rise and people are now wanting to be here and play here, and I believe that GMSM had a big hand in turning that around. Same with our performance on the field. Sure we can link a lot of that to coaching, scheme, etc. but we are really beginning to see special teams get staffed properly and we have better depth than we have had in awhile. 

Sure it has only been two years. Sure we were a ****hole before he got here (easier to see improvement with a crappy team btw), but I do believe we are in the right track, that we are gearing for growth and success, and that his input has greatly impacted this team. I say we keep him on another 4 or 5 years and try to imagine where we will be then?  

[kost203]

1 hour ago, TheGreek1973 said:

What I love about Scott is how he picks FA during the season to help out this team.  Some of his picks have been very very good, for example Vernon Davis.  I know he was picked in the off season but still what an awesome addition he has been.  Now he has  missed on some, Jones is the glaring miss IMO.  But getting Kelly in here has corrected that mistake I think.

the Maurice harris udfa is gonna be another top notch pick! book it! as many have said on here about him, he just wants it and is humble enough to understand and put the extra time in.

[Skinsinparadise]

Redbeast:

Years ago, via charitybuzz.com I won a bid for having one of my kids be there for the coin toss in the middle of the field -- sponsored by the Redskins Charity Foundation.  Then I did one other a couple years later via the Charity Foundation and then subsequently got on their mailing list, and every once in awhile they have public auctions for game day type of experiences and when I saw the Scot one, it was so unique and cool sounding that I couldn't resist going after that one.

 Typically, the auctions are for having your kid do something on game day -- be there for the coin toss, grab the kick off tee after the kickoff, etc.  After splurging on two of those type of things over the years, I was going to take a hiatus (mostly to appease my wife who thinks I am over the top with all things Redskins ) but when the Scot thing popped up which was such an unusual thing to be up for auction, I went for it.

I thought about posting on here before the meeting but I figured the dude might be so busy, that I'd have him for just 15 minutes and he'd go Shanny on me with boiler plate talk -- if Scot went in that direction, I'd have understood.    But instead I ended up talking to him for almost 2 hours.  I got some drift of what he's thinking about the draft -- and sorry to tease on that front but he told me to keep that part of the conversation quiet.  Obviously, he doesn't know who he's going to draft, yet.  But I peppered him about some college players and positions and I got his current take.   I'll just say what I learned on this front wouldn't shock anyone.   But the dude was so cool about it, I'll honor keeping what he told me stays in the room to stay in that room.

We do have 10 picks in the draft.  I heard Scot say this months ago and I asked him how considering the Carrier trade -- he told me the Carrier trade had a provision about playing time so if Carrier doesn't end up playing much this season they will get a 7th rounder in return for the 5th.   

Some things that I learned that I either wasn't sure of, didn't know at all or just suspected.  Doctson's injury is real.  He isn't faking it or its that he just can't deal with the pain as Cooley likes to say.  The truth is the opposite according to Scot.  Doctson didn't tell the staff about his pain and the injury, he wanted to play through it hence it worsened.  It's not a chronic injury, it will heal.  Scot say Doctson = Dez Bryant.   Spaight could ultimately be a good one.  Cravens might end up landing at strong safety.    He likes the O line, he doesn't think its far from Dallas -- thinks Scherff is on the way of being All Pro. 

He loves the chemistry of the team.  He thinks they are about to go on a run this season.  He thinks they should have won every game outside of the first one -- attributes it to bad luck.   I got the vibe (though he didn't flat out say it) that he thinks they are 1-2 years away from a serious Superbowl run. 

But the biggest take away from me is his personality -- he is an easy going, likes to have fun kind of guy.    Our conversation veered to twitter and I joked with him that I've only been blocked once in my life and that was from Will Compton.  I sent Compton a link to a NY post article that lionized the Giants and trashed the Redskins.  I gather Compton thought I was a Giants fan egging him on versus me sending him the article as a motivational tool -- so Compton blocked me.  Scot thought it was hilarious so he called Compton over and made me explain the story to him, Compton thought it was funny and then shook my hand.  

But yeah hanging out with him felt like hanging out with a college buddy you've known for years -- because he's so loose and doesn't take himself seriously.  Some here have wondered if all the adulation might go to his head once he landed here -- but I didn't get that vibe even a little.  From a personality stand point, it was like talking to anyone on these threads like we are partners in crime -- that of all things was the surreal part of the experience.  Even though he knows 50,000 times more on any football subject than I do -- he took every point I gave and question seriously.  

And I can see that's probably why he's so good at reading into personalities and finds the Richard Sherman types because you feel like opening up in kind.   So I hit with him some of my thoughts including my worry about them playing GB on prime time TV at home -- he chuckled to that and said look we are changing the culture around here.  I told him I frequently go to extremeskins and just about all of us trust him implicitly -- we argue here but at the end we say look if Scot goes in a different direction, we trust him, we want whatever Scot wants. (I know we have some stragglers here who don't think that way but most of us do)  Scot laughed and said, great to know, but he has a lot of good help, too on that front -- that's when he kicked in that Jay has a good eye for talent.  

I'll think about if anything else hits me but those are my initial thoughts.    The best thought I came out of it with is that this dude is going to get it done.  It's kind of a cliche to say but yeah seeing his personality up close -- he turned from jocular to serious in a hurry when it was about making this team a Superbowl winner -- his determination is so palpable that I left with no doubt.

 

[Stefanskins]

ohhhh I'm sooo jealous right now SIP!!! great job!!!

[Riggo-toni]

I'm actually quite curious to know what the dynamic is between him and Scot Campbell, and how many of McC's recommendations/grades made it into the 2014 draft when Allen was using his scouting service. Breeland seems like a prototypical McC pick, but I wonder where Campbell or McC graded out Murphy or Moses.

[NoCalMike]

One thing that stuck out from 2015 was all the no names and/or guys who were virtually signed off the street that helped contribute to the defense down the stretch.  Some of those guys like Blackmon have carried over to this season, and then you have the Maurice Harris signing that was under the radar, but as soon as he gets into the game and is told to go run some routes he makes 3 pretty important catches during the game.

This is what it is like having a legit football mind as the GM.  It doesn't mean every single player he signs or drafts will be a homerun, or even workout, but things like the stuff I listed above are going to outweigh the busts.    

Having a legitimate GM is so foreign to this fanbase that I think anytime a player doesn't work out it is a trigger to assume the worst and that the sky is falling.

 

[Stefanskins]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 I told him I frequently go to extremeskins and just about all of us trust him implicitly -- we argue here but at the end we say look if Scot goes in a different direction, we trust him, we want whatever Scot wants.

all of that is great but did you mention me??...or did he??

[TSO]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Scot laughed and said, great to know, but he has a lot of good help, too on that front -- that's when he kicked in that Jay has a good eye for talent.

 

It's interesting, but I always thought that Jay had just as much, if not more, of a hand in the 2014 draft than did Scott Campbell. Just stuff I've gleaned over the years from things that have been said about that draft, but this (maybe) lends credence to it. 

Thanks for sharing this with the board, SIP. Just awesome!  

[RedBeast]

Yeah SIP ****ing awesome man. Love every word and am quite jealous...I too would also like to know more about GMSM and Scott Campbell and the rest of the scouting department.

[Hail2theSkins24]

2 hours ago, bobandweave said:

There are Redskins fans out there who are unhappy with Scot? I never knew that, also do not understand that much at all. I always knew there were other teams fans who weren't very happy with Scot being here though

Seriously for the first time in maybe my 40+ years of being a die hard fan of this team or maybe I can remember this team has

Franchise QB - Check

Functional Front Office - Check

Control over itself and the salary cap - Check

Team based on young guys not old players - Check

Bright future - Check

Now things here aren't perfect yet but are they going in the right direction? Hell yes they are. Keep Scot? Hell I say make him a Kings throne and give him a 10 year iron clad contract at this point. Keep Bruce if Dan likes him, it keeps Dan away from this.I love the direction and what I see from this team

 From what I saw, it had to do with FA busts (sure but he's countered with cheap, impactful acquisitions), Doctson pick (I could see the logic but definitely a ding at this point), and not hiring a good D coordinator! (When our D was bad). 

  Those guys have been awfully quiet lately. Imagine if Doctson comes back next year and is just a freak, and we have another solid offseason/draft? We could be looking at a consistent contender for the next few years 

[Long n Left]

Thank you SIP for what is possibly the best post I've ever read on this board. Your respect and admiration for Scot, his intelligence, charisma, and demeanor, come through palpably in your words. Sure I'm jealous, but so pleased that you shared this with us.

Also, you can PM me with Scot's draft talk/strategy. It'll remain just between you and me, I PROMISE! 

[kost203]

I cant wait to get doctson back! hopeeeee its this year! but to be honest cant trust him at this point, not sure how bad it is and the same can be said about junior's achillies injury. just not sure what to expect, sucks but reality. that's why going bpa is huge!

[NewCliche21]

24 minutes ago, Hail2theSkins24 said:

 From what I saw, it had to do with FA busts (sure but he's countered with cheap, impactful acquisitions), Doctson pick (I could see the logic but definitely a ding at this point), and not hiring a good D coordinator! (When our D was bad). 

  Those guys have been awfully quiet lately. Imagine if Doctson comes back next year and is just a freak, and we have another solid offseason/draft? We could be looking at a consistent contender for the next few years 

How is Doctson a ding?  He got injured.  Would Fowler, Jr. be a ding last year?