Scott McCloughan: Honest Evaluation and Contract Renewal

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

You didn't say we were the only team with injuries, you said "the line has a lot of injuries so that doesn't help". I said in response that everyone is injured this time of year so injuries are not a excuse..If you are injured that bad then you should not play.The O line guys are playing against guys with injuries too so it is a wash.  As far as the pro bowl is concerned, no one cares.  As a fan I would rather have a winning season and a playoff game or two than having a player make the pro bowl. Win the division and a playoff game and don't commit any holding penalties and open some holes and I will give him a thumbs up. You keep saying you are done but you continue to quote my posts. By the way, the correct sentence should read "What should he do"?

 

First, you do realize that @Wildbunny is French, right? English being a 2nd language, you may want to cut them some slack on being the grammar police. This is a football blog, not a spelling and grammar exercise.

 

The dallas oline right now has the same number of division wins as us and only 1 more PO win. Also, dallas has the 3rd most offensive holding penalties in the NFL with 28. Only Balt (31) and Oak (30) have more. Washington has the 3rd least at 15. http://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/offensive-holding?year=2016

 

The Pro bowl is not the end all be all - but of the Pro-bowl starting Oline, there are 3 cowboys and 2 Redskins - one of which is Brandon Scherff. As for a winning season - we had one last year, and even with the last 4 gms we still have a great chance to get a second winning season in a row.

 

Not disagreeing that dallas has a great oline. But it is possible we can both have good lines. Our line is still young and in flux. Dallas's line has been playing together for the better part of the last 3 season+. We need a LG and the jury is still out on Long at C. He has a chance to become good. This is just his 1st year at C. Running game could certainly be better. But can't put that all on Scherff.

 

People need to let the draft position garbage go, especially when they bring up Williams. He is doing Ok on a bad team. What he is not doing is going to the pro-bowl. Again, while that is not the end all be all, it is at least one measure or success. Not to mention, it's easier to get noticed as a DE/OLB than a OG. Yet, in just his second year Brandon made it - Williams has not.

[50yrSKINSfan]

Just now, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I mentioned just about every member of the 2012 OL, actually, in order to show that it's not always about the individual collection of talent, but rather how that talent works together and the scheme/play-calling those players operate in.  This is especially true for OL in the run game.

 

We had no trade back partners after Fowler went off the board.  And if we would have traded back past pick 10, the Giants would have taken Scherff.  Even if we did trade back, there is no guard from the 2015 draft that is as good as Scherff is.  Which guard would you have drafted instead?  Trading back likely would have given us either two average starters, one average starter and one bust, or two busts, instead of one sure stud in Scherff.  Take a look at the players drafted after the 10th pick in that draft's first round and tell me who you would want (other than Marcus Peters - who was a huge gamble at the time due to his off-the-field issues) over Scherff.

I did not want a guard with the 5th pick. Guards can be had later. I just explained that most guards taken in the 1st go between 20 -30. They are just not valuable enough for the 5th pick.  I wanted Williams and Landon Collins with our 1st 2 picks. Even you have to admit we needed defense. By the way I thought Sheriff was a Tackle but I can't remember. Just for argument sake, how good would our D be if we had Williams and Collins and then take a guard in the 3rd round. I mean we are 18Th in rushing so how much has Sheriff really helped us? If the Giants wanted him so what. They need tackles not guards and if I remember Sheriff was not working out that good at tackle.

[HTTRDynasty]

9 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

I did not want a guard with the 5th pick. Guards can be had later. I just explained that most guards taken in the 1st go between 20 -30. They are just not valuable enough for the 5th pick.  I wanted Williams and Landon Collins with our 1st 2 picks. Even you have to admit we needed defense. By the way I thought Sheriff was a Tackle but I can't remember. Just for argument sake, how good would our D be if we had Williams and Collins and then take a guard in the 3rd round. I mean we are 18Th in rushing so how much has Sheriff really helped us? If the Giants wanted him so what. They need tackles not guards and if I remember Sheriff was not working out that good at tackle.

 

You do realize that Collins was the 1st overall pick in the 2nd round, right?  We would have had to A) been prophetic enough to predict the Giants trading up to grab him and B ) be willing to lose a pick (possibly the Crowder pick) to trade up to that spot before them.  Yea, not happening.

 

I don't care where "most guards" get drafted.  Most Centers don't get drafted in the 1st round at all, yet Dallas took someone who is now considered the best Center in the league in the 1st round in 2013.

 

And yes, if we took Williams our defense would be better.  But our offense would be worse.  And we'd be complaining we have huge holes on both sides of the ball, not just defense. 

 

You still haven't named a guard you would have taken instead of Scherff in that draft.

[50yrSKINSfan]

Just now, goskins10 said:

 

First, you do realize that @Wildbunny is French, right? English being a 2nd language, you may want to cut them some slack on being the grammar police. This is a football blog, not a spelling and grammar exercise.

 

The dallas oline right now has the same number of division wins as us and only 1 more PO win. Also, dallas has the 3rd most offensive holding penalties in the NFL with 28. Only Balt (31) and Oak (30) have more. Washington has the 3rd least at 15. http://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/offensive-holding?year=2016

 

The Pro bowl is not the end all be all - but of the Pro-bowl starting Oline, there are 3 cowboys and 2 Redskins - one of which is Brandon Scherff. As for a winning season - we had one last year, and even with the last 4 gms we still have a great chance to get a second winning season in a row.

 

Not disagreeing that dallas has a great oline. But it is possible we can both have good lines. Our line is still young and in flux. Dallas's line has been playing together for the better part of the last 3 season+. We need a LG and the jury is still out on Long at C. He has a chance to become good. This is just his 1st year at C. Running game could certainly be better. But can't put that all on Scherff.

 

People need to let the draft position garbage go, especially when they bring up Williams. He is doing Ok on a bad team. What he is not doing is going to the pro-bowl. Again, while that is not the end all be all, it is at least one measure or success. Not to mention, it's easier to get noticed as a DE/OLB than a OG. Yet, in just his second year Brandon made it - Williams has not.

First I know bunny is French and in a earlier post he told me I should have had 2 paragraphs instead of one and I never mentioned anything about his grammar. "Judge ye not least ye be judged." Now the post did not require 2 paragraphs so I thought he was just busting me. Now I am busting him. If he didn't want to be corrected he should not correct us. We all make grammer mistakes. As far as all the stats and the pro bowl go, they do not matter. It is winning that counts. The OP was asking to access SM and that is what I did. My opinion, you don't have to like it but the fact remains that both the Giants and Cowboys bolted past us this year with better drafts and FA signings. Who should I blame? The draft is part of the GM's job and that is what we were asked to critique.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

I am not crazy about our GM. I do give him credit for doing a better job than Vinny or MS but I question his draft picks the last 2 years. To me the Giants GM did a better job. Not one guard has been taken in the top 5 in the last 15 years yet SM took one! He should have traded the pic if he was not going to take Williams. Williams would have been nice Mon nite and what did Sheriff do? Get holding penalties? Most guards go 20 to 30. Sheriff is good but he is a reach at 5. Last year a receiver in the 1st round? WTF. If you are going to get a receiver in the 1st get us a OBJ. 

 

No one knew OBJ was "OBJ" until he started to play -- otherwise he'd have been a top 10 pick.  How do we know Doctson isn't a stud?   The NY papers skewered the Giants for not firing their GM (Jerry Reese) last year.  He's had some really bad drafts.  They have been out of the playoffs longer than any team in the NFC East.  They are finally breaking that spell after him spending 200 million in free agency last year on 3 players and that worked out for him.  

 

Scherff was a tackle in college.  We initially drafted him to play RT.  The tackle the Giants took, Erik Flowers, in that same draft is looking like a bust.  Morgan Moses emerged in camp as a good RT so they moved Scherff to RG. 

 

IMO people need to chill and let him do his thing to fix the defense in this off season.   If I had to summarize some of the criticism at Scot on the thread depending on the post -- the implications come off to me predicated on some of these points:  you don't take an incremental approach to building your roster -- but you attack it in a win now mode.   If you got a hole on your team, I don't care if you think Doctson is great and better than your best rated D lineman who you think in comparison is good but nothing special.   Go for good over great if it fills a need.   2017 might as well be 10 years from now.   Don't care how 2016 sets up 2017 and beyond.  It's not relevant to the debate.  Cap room and adding picks to this draft isn't anything tangible that we can hold on to.  But to play along, I'd rather anyway to see him use up his picks in 2016 and use up more of the 2016 cap room for free agents -- I am into now versus how now sets up later.  And, whatever wasn't fixed this time is Scot just simply not realizing where the team was weak and just blew it.   Heck yeah for example he thought Reyes and Ziggy Hood would fix the D line, and he miscalculated.   

 

The pro-Scot approach is he inherited a 4-12 team.  He didn't think they were a stone's throw away from the promised land so he wanted to add talent and depth.   Then, as we got closer to the promised land (which I think is this off season) he will shoot to kill.  And opening up cap room and making trades to give us 10 picks -- sets up the kill.   Yeah collecting cap space and draft picks isn't fun BEFORE you actually take advantage of it.    It's sort of like being giving a gift certificate to Ruth's Steak House.  It's boring in the moment.  But then when you actually go, its cool.   If Docston ends up a stud next season, we don't care that Scot didn't draft A. Robinson or name that DT from the draft.  

 

I don't mean this sarcastically but some of the hits on Scot are very pro Cerrato in the criticism/approach.  I see the distancing from Cerrato since he's considered a joke by our fan base.  But if we are talking pure approach -- there was a method to the madness of how Cerrato went about things.  We need a corner.  So we draft a corner.  We mean business.  So we take Carlos Rodgers in the top 10.  Yeah we could have taken Ware but that wasn't as big a need.    We need a WLB, lets trade up for Rocky McIntosh.   Collecting cap space and draft picks?  Are you kidding me?  That's boring.   That does nothing for the current Redskins team.  We will do the reverse, trade picks and leverage our veterans contracts to fill our cap room into the future to sign whatever FA we want to land.  I know people distance themselves from Vinny but I don't think some of these people hate his approach -- because the points nailing Scot tend to center on immediate gratification whether its drafting by need, using up the cap room and panicking over young players not developing within one season.   Vinny was very impatient.  Scot is patient. 

[50yrSKINSfan]

Just now, HTTRDynasty said:

 

You do realize that Collins was the 1st overall pick in the 2nd round, right?  We would have had to A) been prophetic enough to predict the Giants trading up to grab him and B ) be willing to lose a pick (possibly the Crowder pick) to trade up to that spot before them.  Yea, not happening.

 

I don't care where "most guards" get drafted.  Most Centers don't get drafted in the 1st round at all, yet Dallas took someone who is now considered the best Center in the league in the 1st round in 2013.

 

And yes, if we took Williams our defense would be better.  But our offense would be worse.  And we'd be complaining we have huge holes on both sides of the ball, not just defense. 

 

You still haven't named a guard you would have taken instead of Scherff in that draft.

Of course I know Collins was a high 2nd rd pick and the Giants moved up to get him. Most people say the move was brilliant. Most people were laughing at our Sheriff pick. The Giant D is a monster and ours is not good. Too much to ask from our GM to make a move like that. As far as loosing the Crowder pick you did not know he was going to be that good when you drafted him, and who is to say he would have still been there later. The Giants second leading receiver, can't think of his name but they got him  as a walk on and he has more catches than Crowder I believe. Who is to say we could have had him instead of Crowder, only our GM did not see him but the Giants did and that gets me back to my complaint that the Giants GM has done a better job than SM.The don't care attitude gets you to reach on draft players. If a guy is rated 12 and you don't care and take him with the 5Th pick then it is a reach. You don't know if our O would be worse without Sheriff. We are ranked 18th in rushing. That is not great. How much worse would we be if we picked up a guard in FA? Back to the draft I told you 2 times I did not want a guard. They can be had later or through FA.  What is the deal with Dallas? If they do it then it must be right, but you have to admit they are better than us.  Last thing, our D with Williams and Collins, not just Williams.

[ZRagone]

Let's look at the draft thus far. And let's look at it in a realistic fashion....season by season. Someone having a down year this year doesn't erase last year, nor does last year erase a down year this year. So for those who have been here for two years, they'll have two grades.

 

Grades are either a hit (5), a push (3), or a miss (1). A hit is someone who excels relative to their draft position. A push is someone who's simply functioning as just a guy, but contributing in some fashion. A miss is someone who's largely providing little if anything. You want to average at least a 3 for a draft, which is basically hitting .500. Additionally, I allow for a successful UDFA to replace a 6th or 7th round pick due to the reality that the value for each is relatively similar.

 

2015 Draft Class

 

Brandon Scherff -  hit, hit (5)

Preston Smith - hit, push (4)

Matt Jones - push, miss (2)

Jamison Crowder - hit, hit (5)

Arie Kuandijio - push, hit (4)

Martell Spaight - miss, hit (3) 

Kyshoen Jarrett - hit, miss (3)

Tevin Mitchel - miss, miss(replaced with Dunbar)

Quinton Dunbar - hit, hit (5)

Evan Spencer - miss, miss (1)

Austin Reiter, miss, miss (1)

 

Year 1 - 3.4

Year 2 - 3.2

Average - 3.3

 

2016 Draft Class

 

Josh Doctson - miss (1)

Sua'a Cravens - hit (5)

Kendall Fuller - push (3)

Matt Ionnidis - push (3)

Nate Sudfeld - push (3) 

Steven Daniels - miss  (replaced by Rob Kelly)

Rob Kelly - hit (5)

Keith Marshall - miss (replaced by Maurice Harris)

Maurice Harris - push (3)

 

Year 1 - 3.3

 

The 2015 draft is going to depend if Preston bounces back or not and if Arie and and Spaight continue to be solid contributors (special teams, spot starting). Regardless, it seems like we've pulled out two studs (Scherff and Crowder) out of that draft year.

 

2016 has a lot of questions for next year. Does Doctson show up next year. Does Fuller progress beyond being a somewhat out of his depth regular contributor to a solid one. Does Sufeld push out Colt, or does he end up fading away. Does Ionnidis make his way to being a regular rotational guy rather than a depth guy with limited time. Does Kelly and Harris stick around, or are they just one year filler? 

 

In both cases, the ability to nail some UDFA hits helped buoy misses on the backend of the draft.

 

(As a reference, after a 3 year review, I'd give the 2014 draft a 2.8.  The lack of any standout UDFA to replace Lache, Bolser, or Hocker hampered it)

 

Overall, I'm happy with how Scot has gone in terms of the draft. While I haven't been blown away by his free agency, I've not hated it either. We managed to get a game changer in Norman, while we haven't been saddled with any weighty bad contracts in the interim. We've made some good in season grabs last year as well, that allowed for us to compete for the title.

 

And ultimately, the turn around is going well. I do feel like the environment and culture of the team is changing. Consistent success is also being built. With at least 1 more win, it will be only the second time since 2000 that we've had 17 or more wins over two seasons. If we win both of our next two games, it will be the most wins over two seasons that we've had since the new millennium. We're actually building something good here and I'd hate to see that thrown away because of some misguided notion that we need to be hitting 100% on draft picks all the time or because a few people can't see beyond the QB position to make their judgement. 

 

[Conn]

As an impartial observer, I have to say that SIP is killing it in this thread and that 50yrSKINSfan is stepping in it big time. Carry on.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

36 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

 Most people were laughing at our Sheriff pick. The Giant D is a monster and ours is not good. Too much to ask from our GM to make a move like that. As far as loosing the Crowder pick you did not know he was going to be that good when you drafted him, and who is to say he would have still been there later. The Giants second leading receiver, can't think of his name but they got him  as a walk on and he has more catches than Crowder I believe. Who is to say we could have had him instead of Crowder, only our GM did not see him but the Giants did and that gets me back to my complaint that the Giants GM has done a better job than SM.

 

Sorry I feel compelled to kick in.  My in-laws are Giants fans, I read the NY sports pages just about every day and the Giants fans for the most part have lampooned Jerry Reese as their version of Vinny Cerrato.  That's the guy you love?   This off season, he finally hit with some free agents. Nice for Jerry.  It took him a long time.  He definitely isn't known for his draft picks.

 

The Giants with an undrafted WR?   That would have to be Victor Cruz from years back and not this draft.  He has 29 catches.    Crowder has 64. They don't have an undrafted WR burning it up. 

 

As for laughing at the Scherff pick, not sure who those people were.  Mel Kiper graded the Redskins 2015 draft as the best in the NFL.

 

Edit: On Reese he's been really up and down as for how he's done with the Giants by observers who cover that team. He started hot then got cold.  But the arrow has been pointing down for him for years until his free agency spree this off season.  And if you like what he's done.  I'd be patient with Scot.  Landon Collins looked like a bad pick judging by his first season.  But him emerging this season coupled with the 3 free agents he added made a difference.  The previous off season Reese was lampooned as clueless and the guy who helped put together one of the worst defenses in NFL history.  But it changed this season.  That's my point about patience.   It's not a stretch to predict Cravens emerges as a stud at safety. Doctson thrives at WR.  We add 2-3 impact FAs.   and the defense turns around.  Reese turned the bad defense around, a bad defense that he put together by the way -- he set the barn on fire and then finally put it out.  Versus Scot who inherited a bad defense and hasn't fixed it, yet.  Scot would be the one I'd give more slack, not Reese.

 

 

http://www.bigblueview.com/2016/4/15/11436806/ny-giants-jerry-reese-ranked-among-nfls-worst-general-managers

Giants' Jerry Reese ranked among NFL's worst general managers  

 Rotoworld's ranking of the NFL's general managers.

After the start of the 2016 league year, Reese, 52, was ranked 21st of 28 general managers who have been in their position for at least a year....One of the main reasons why Reese was ranked so low this year is because of the lack of players that were drafted who are still on the roster from 2007-12, which includes just Jason Pierre-Pauland Zak DeOssie. Not one player drafted during the 2011-12 season is still on the Giants roster.

While the Giants have struck gold with Odell Beckham Jr., according to Rotoworld's Patrick Daugherty, a lack of being able to draft consistently and keep talent around has given the Giants general manager a low grade in 2016.

 

http://nypost.com/2015/12/23/how-jerry-reese-has-neutered-2-super-bowl-winning-coaches/

SPORTS

 

How Jerry Reese has neutered 2 Super Bowl-winning coaches

By Paul Schwartz

December 2

 

 

his drafts have been so hit-or-miss — third-round picks such as Damontre Moore and Jayron Hosley failed to develop, and the jury remains out on Jay Bromley — that Reese had to fill up the roster with free-agent fodder such as Jasper Brinkley, J.T. Thomas, Jonathan Casillas, George Selvie and Craig Dahl. All are replaceable.

The Giants are headed for a fourth consecutive season missing out on the playoffs. Their record since Super Bowl XLVI is 28-34. The expectation from outside the organization was that the Giants this season would be a .500 team, at best. They are what most of us thought they were. This coaching staff navigated a flawed team to the brink of victory six times and came away empty. Did they get stupid in the desperate closing minutes or did the talent level ultimately fail them?

Coughlin has gone against some of his coaching principles because he cannot trust his defense. The hand he was dealt was shuffled by Jerry Reese. Are the Giants all in this together, or not?

[KokoMike]

Is his name Scot, Scott or Scottt?

[ZRagone]

7 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Most people were laughing at our Sheriff pick. 

 

 

"5. Brandon Scherff, G, Redskins

Snaps: 752

Grade: 70.4

Summary: Scherff struggled early in the year in pass protection, but with three games consecutively without allowing a pressure, is he accelerating toward a new level of play? The former Iowa Hawkeye is already flashing his smarts and consistency in the run game."

 

Higher grade than Winston and Mariota picks, and the highest graded O-lineman taken in the first. Doesn't sound like laughing. (PFF)

 

Bleacher Report: A+

Fansided: B-

Mocking the Draft: B-

Washington Post: B-

Sports Illustrated: A-

CBS: B-

NFL: C+

Walterfootball: C

(Source for those)

Kiper: Gushed over the pick, even if he did get moved to guard, and was part of what caused the draft to be graded an A-

McShay: "I really like what the new GM Scot McCloughan did with his first draft. It seemed like every player he chose was really tough, regardless of position....but my pick here is first-rounder scherzo, who is the nastiest offensive lineman in this class".

(Source)

 

I could go on, but it's not really necessarily. No, "most" people were not "laughing" at the Scherff pick. Some people questioned it with a bit of skepticism, but a lot of people were very positive on the pick. Few, if any, outright laughed at the idea of selecting Scherff.

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, KokoMike said:

Is his name Scot or Scott? 

 

It's Scot

[redskins59]

Honestly, how much of our improvement is Kirk Cousins? I am starting to feel that even without Scot Mccloughan, we would have been a winning team last year with Kirk Cousins at the helm.    This is the worst defense I have ever seen.  The GM has not provided a whole lot of talent.  The offense already had pieces before the savior arrived.Jordan Reed, Pierre Garcon, Desean Jackson,Trent Williams, Morgan Moses,Spencer Long to name a few.  

This isn't GMSM's team.  The talent existed before he  got here, at least on offense.  Heck even on the D, Trent Murphy, Chris Baker and Ryan Kerrigan aren't his guys. Preston Smith, GMSM's pick, looks like a fatass. Su'a Cravens looks good once in a while, but one can easily make the argument that he is injury prone.

[Conn]

Pretty sure it's Scottt, dolts.

[goskins10]

 

 

10 hours ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

First I know bunny is French and in a earlier post he told me I should have had 2 paragraphs instead of one and I never mentioned anything about his grammar. "Judge ye not least ye be judged." Now the post did not require 2 paragraphs so I

 

edit...

 

Wildbunny was trying to help you not messing with you. It's very difficult to read long paragraphs, especially on a phone which many people use. It's not required by any means, but it does help people understand what you are saying when you put different thoughts in different paragraphs.

 

The roster SM inherited was a complete disaster. dallast started rebuilding theirs a few years ago when they spent those draft picks on Oline - wisely. So saying SM has not done a good job because those two "bolted" past us is ignoring the state of the roster. For one of the very few times in the last 25 yrs we are relevant in Dec for 2 yrs in a row. That did not happen by accident. SM is taking a methodical approach that while not sexy and takes longer, will provide longer sustained growth of the team.

 

The only reason dallast draft seems so good is they literally lucked into dak Prescott. They tried desperately to get Paxston Lynch. It was only when they could not they took dak as an afterthought. I still believe he will not be nearly as successful next year when Ds have an offseason to dissect. The giants are in all out win now mode - which will come back to haunt them. They only have 38 players under contract and will need to resign OBJ - he will get paid big. And I believe Elis contract may be in his last year next year (not positive on this). They will need to resign him unless they plan to move on after 2017.

 

10 hours ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Of course I know Collins was a high 2nd rd pick and the Giants moved up to get him. Most people say the move was brilliant. Most people were laughing at our Sheriff pick. The Giant D is a monster and ours is not good. Too much to ask from our GM to

 

edit...

 

No people were not laughing at that pick. Sorry, that's a little revisionist history. Even Mel Kiper who rarely says much nice about us - never says much at all to be fair - praised the pick as excellent. Called Scherff the nastiest oline in the draft. Also, you are assuming your board is the same as SM. It was rumored (I do not have proof but it was said more than once) that Scherff was near the top of his board, ahead of Williams who he was not fond of. While I could be wrong, it would seem his pick confirms that. As for a trade, there were no trading partners and we would never have gotten scherff later. The giants (the guys who's draft you liked so much) took Ereck Flowers who has been pretty bad. They would have taken him at 9.

 

So I am not sure what "don't care " attitude you are talking about. Scot cares about his board and who has rated where. Not where the so called draft experts put them. He goes by his own board. On his board Scherff was top 5. So when he was there, he took him.

 

Also, Sheppard was a 2nd round pick - not a "walk on". Taken 40th.

[redskins59]

You know what though, I am a believer in analytics.  I would keep trading down and accumulating picks.  Assume that it is difficult to hit on draft picks.  I like the Redskins draft strategy at least.  Yes, even under Bruce Allen.

[KokoMike]

26 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Pretty sure it's Scottt, dolts.

?

[ZRagone]

38 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

Also, Sheppard was a 2nd round pick - not a "walk on". Taken 40th.

 

And he has less yards and receptions than Crowder, with the same amount of TD's. I really don't know what he's talking about.

[skinny21]

2 hours ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Of course I know Collins was a high 2nd rd pick and the Giants moved up to get him. Most people say the move was brilliant. Most people were laughing at our Sheriff pick. The Giant D is a monster and ours is not good. Too much to ask from our GM to make a move like that. As far as loosing the Crowder pick you did not know he was going to be that good when you drafted him, and who is to say he would have still been there later. The Giants second leading receiver, can't think of his name but they got him  as a walk on and he has more catches than Crowder I believe. Who is to say we could have had him instead of Crowder, only our GM did not see him but the Giants did and that gets me back to my complaint that the Giants GM has done a better job than SM.The don't care attitude gets you to reach on draft players. If a guy is rated 12 and you don't care and take him with the 5Th pick then it is a reach. You don't know if our O would be worse without Sheriff. We are ranked 18th in rushing. That is not great. How much worse would we be if we picked up a guard in FA? Back to the draft I told you 2 times I did not want a guard. They can be had later or through FA.  What is the deal with Dallas? If they do it then it must be right, but you have to admit they are better than us.  Last thing, our D with Williams and Collins, not just Williams.

1.  I gotta agree with goskins, paragraph breaks help the reader.  I have to resist the urge to skip your posts because of the "block of text" aspect.  Hope you realize we're just trying to help.

2.  You're absolutely entitled to your own opinion, but a lot of the facts you're presenting are inaccurate which isn't helping your arguments.

3.  Holy cow, the Scherff/Williams debate again?  I wish we had a thread with the pages upon pages of posts on this debate that everyone would have to read before they posted about it.  

[Conn]

Can someone point me towards the ignore feature in this new board software? It's not something I have historically utilized often, but once in a while someone comes along who is just loudly opinionated enough and just gratingly wrong enough that it's tempting to just flex my ignore muscles.

[Wildbunny]

5 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

As an impartial observer, I have to say that SIP is killing it in this thread and that 50yrSKINSfan is stepping in it big time. Carry on.

 

 

If Scot is looking for an agent, I would urge him to hire @Skinsinparadise, he's great at selling him

[kost203]

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Scherff was a tackle in college.  We initially drafted him to play RT.  The tackle the Giants took, Erik Flowers, in that same draft is looking like a bust.  Morgan Moses emerged in camp as a good RT so they moved Scherff to RG. 

 

flowers is meant to be a right tackle for them. they are stuck right now due to his poor footwork till next draft

[RedBeast]

Defending a Giants draft pick?

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

 

If Scot is looking for an agent, I would urge him to hire @Skinsinparadise, he's great at selling him

 

The thing with Scot for me starting with Sub and me on a thread after the 2014 season, imploring Bruce to hire a real GM, we among others sent emails to Bruce Allen, etc.  I am sure it wasn't the reason why they hired a real GM but it felt good to try to do something about it versus just vent.  It didn't have to be Scot but any GM who had a proven record and was dedicated to the draft and building a team with a long term view. 

We were tired of Danny's knee jerk, impatient, win now in the off season and is all about fun approach.  If you look at the best run organizations -- they go after it methodically and with patience.  Some of that Danny style impatience you can see on the thread:  Cravens gets a concussion and a hyper extended elbow so he's likely chronically injury prone.  Doctson didn't play this season so he's likely a bust.  The 5th round pick is a rotational DT but he's not setting the world on fire, yet -- disaster.    Yeah this player might be really good but we could have gotten that player, instead. 

 

We can't tolerate hiccups or waiting -- and moves that don't bring immediate gratification.  We likely have 70 million or so in cap room coming up in 2017.  He added three picks to next years draft -- but who cares.  Planning for the future is not fun.   The dude by most accounts had the best draft in the NFL in 2015.  So ok the 2016 draft is one of those where he hit some bad luck with injuries and we got to wait it out like the typical draft for NFL teams for another season -- disaster!   And heck I am not even saying bank on the 2016 draft -- you never know.  It happens GM's aren't going to nail it every time. I gave an example of John Schneider having a disaster draft.    It's going to happen.  But hold on -- chill IMO.   There isn't a GM who doesn't have down years.  I actually like what Scot did this year but even if I didn't -- my thought is so what?  Building for the long term isn't you got 2 years and you are out drill IMO. 

 

As for the critiques about Scot not contributing to the offense's success.  He's only the guy who found the running back, the pro bowl guard, the go to WR -- alternate pro bowler. (possibly when he was the consultant in 2014 having a hand in finding the center and RT).  Also the backup O lineman, Sullivan and Ty and Ari who kept the ship afloat when we lost Trent and Long and Shawn for a spell.   As for Kirk.  Many forget but there was a groundswell to trade him that off season -- we learned later the Jets had a trade on the table, Scot didn't take it.  Then it was Scot who spent apparently 8 hours to convince Danny to allow them to start Kirk.  Yeah Scot didn't draft Kirk.  But if you hear it from the man himself, Kirk said in an interview this season, Scot was key is giving him the opportunity.   

 

I hate Jason Reid but he has a good line comparing Dan Snyder to the dragon.  When things aren't going hot -- Dan comes out of his cage and often does something impatient and irrational.  As long as the team is winning and or fans are happy he generally stays in the cage.    For the people who are unhappy about the current results aren't fast enough and they can't tolerate hiccups.  Just wondering what's plan B?  If you go with Jason Reid's thought from covering the team -- whether you like it or not, plan B is always Danny coming out of his cage and in a fury.    When we had D line problems under Danny -- he meant business.  We got Stubblefield and Big Daddy Wilkerson.  This dude would out negotiate in the wee hours of the morning to outbid Tampa and the Giants to land fat Al.    We'd already have had Sheldon Richardson in the fold for two first round picks, our 3rd and 4th round picks would have been traded away well into 2020 for the various toys Dan would like to collect.  

 

We can pretend that's not plan B.    But if its lets chase Scot out of town -- we are sending the message IMO to Danny and we miss the old ways.  Please please come back.   We don't give a rats behind about managing the cap, adding picks and building patiently through the draft -- we want the do it now approach.   We agree Vinny isn't the guy to do it.  But please find another GM with that "now" mindset who you will be likeminded pals with and the off seasons will be fun again.  And I know some of the Scot critics response to this is often -- well, it doesn't have to be one extreme to another extreme-- my response to that is if people rebel now to the patient build by the draft-hang in there approach -- do you guys really think Danny will go look for another GM with that same approach but just be a different guy doing it?  I think that's big time counter intuitive. 

 

 

[Hail2theSkins24]

12 hours ago, redskins59 said:

Honestly, how much of our improvement is Kirk Cousins? I am starting to feel that even without Scot Mccloughan, we would have been a winning team last year with Kirk Cousins at the helm.    This is the worst defense I have ever seen.  The GM has not provided a whole lot of talent.  The offense already had pieces before the savior arrived.Jordan Reed, Pierre Garcon, Desean Jackson,Trent Williams, Morgan Moses,Spencer Long to name a few.  

This isn't GMSM's team.  The talent existed before he  got here, at least on offense.  Heck even on the D, Trent Murphy, Chris Baker and Ryan Kerrigan aren't his guys. Preston Smith, GMSM's pick, looks like a fatass. Su'a Cravens looks good once in a while, but one can easily make the argument that he is injury prone.

 

 I agree with this, a lot.