tshile Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, Bacon said: I'm just switching entirely to streams and refuse to buy any gear. I've been on merch strike with the Skins since Scot was unceremoniously removed to soothe Bruce Allen's ego. Same here. Technically I’m a season ticket holder still because someone wanted to buy the entire package because they like the seats so I said fine. I still don’t know who we drafted this year. Last year was the first time since like middle school where I outright missed entire games, and don’t watch majority of plenty of games. Edited May 23, 2018 by tshile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEANDWARF Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 At the risked of stepping on a fire-ant mound, does it matter that the N.F.L. pledges to donate $100 million dollars to social injustice programs? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 (edited) Whites on the field and blacks in the locker room... (Jokes!) And while this is a “viable” solution, I feel like this just mutes the players who wish to protest the injustices in our society. Edited May 23, 2018 by Springfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEANDWARF Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, Springfield said: Whites on the field and blacks in the locker room... (Jokes!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, tshile said: You want them to care about an issue outside of their business. They don’t. When they let it go on they were obviously affected - either the owners personally, or the business financially. Stop watching and do your own protest. They are not obligated to oblige you. they chase the money. So protest and see if there’s enough of you that care so much to cause the change. Yep, I'm waiting for another BLM protest in my area, will be at Million Man March, and the NFL should not get credit for staying neutral on this, this isn't neutral, its further punishing the players that this is an issue for, they DID pick a side, and its the WRONG one. We're not talking about something extremely controversial here, they didn't have two Fs to give, this is wrong, dead wrong. I'm not looking for a GD cookie, dude, just an iota of giving a damn about this issue, and they chose not to. If it wasn't for the Redskins, yes, I'd stop watching football, I'm officially there now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: We're not talking about something extremely controversial here Um, yes we are. Plenty of people have voiced their opinions here, and elsewhere, about how disrespectful this protest is to them and why. You, and others, choose not to hear them and instead lob grenades-o-racism at them. The nfl chose to hear them. You don’t get to wave your hands and declare it not controversial. It quite obviously is and has been controversial. (I’m absolute ok with them kneeling. It doesn’t bother me. I hate overly patriotic stuff, especially when it’s demanded. But, I’m not so ignorant as to not understand why there are people who are gravely offended, even if the protest isn’t meant to do so) Edited May 23, 2018 by tshile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, MEANDWARF said: At the risked of stepping on a fire-ant mound, does it matter that the N.F.L. pledges to donate $100 million dollars to social injustice programs? I'd like to see it happen and where that money goes. But for a company that prints money, their actions every week in this regard mean a lot more than an attempt to buy some goodwill with a donation they'll write off in their taxes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 11 minutes ago, Bacon said: I'm just switching entirely to streams and refuse to buy any gear. I've been on merch strike with the Skins since Scot was unceremoniously removed to soothe Bruce Allen's ego. I honestly can’t even bring myself to do that. The league ****ing sucks on a plethora of issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, tshile said: Um, yes we are. Plenty of people have voiced their opinions here, and elsewhere, about how disrespectful this protest is to them and why. You, and others, choose not to hear them and instead lob grenades-o-racism at them. The nfl chose to hear them. You don’t get to wave your hands and declare it not controversial. It quite obviously is and has been controversial. Comparing shooting unarmed black men to whether transgender people can pick which bathroom is not rocket science, its only controversial as it is because so many people want to deny that its really happening. I'm not choosing not to hear anyone or calling everyone that disagrees with me a racist, we've had plenty of discussions on this topic, just because I'm mad now doesn't mean I've forgotten everything we've talked about. This is a big deal because people don't want it to be a big deal, its a joke to some, a lie to many, and obviously none of the NFL's concern. I've heard plenty of "other side" discussions, and plenty are going straight to Blue Lives Matter or All Lives Matter because they don't understand why Black Lives Matter took off the way it did, either intentionally or because they don't care what their reason is. NFL doesn't care what there reason is, which will make it that much harder to do anything about it. DOJ was getting in police systems *** over this, now they are getting scaled back. My protest was in part voting for someone that wouldn't do that, I'll vote again, but this is unequivocal Bull f'n ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 The whole kneeling thing is just so interesting to me because there's so many levels of hipocrisy. First you have the people protesting, get mad about the people protesting their protest. Then you have people on the left who traditionally fall in the "whether something is offensive or not is determined by the audience" telling the audience they can't be offended because the protesters don't mean it that way (and that if the audience is offended it's because they like seeing black people shot by police or some nonsense) Then you have the people on the right, who traditionally fall in the "i get to decide if what I say is meant to be offensive or not, not the audience", completely ignoring what the protesters have said their protest is about (it's about the police shootings and the countries inability to fix it, not about the military or their sacrifice) and deciding that their desire to be offended trumps the protesters intentions. (FWIW - I fall in the "intent of the speaker should determine offense, not the audience" group because I think the audience determining what your intent is is a dangerous and bull**** game certain people like the play, which is why I don't find the kneeling protest offensive. I understand what they are, and more importantly what they're not, protesting. I also understand why military people and families are super pissed that someone chose the flag/anthem to protest, and why they will not under any circumstance come off that opinion. Which, again, is why choosing the the flag/anthem for a protest is stupid) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Considering the kneeling was a compromise between a former NFL player/Green Beret and Kaep...I would have thought people would have moved on. But let's not remember that sitting was the first choice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 32 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Comparing shooting unarmed black men to whether transgender people can pick which bathroom is not rocket science, its only controversial as it is because so many people want to deny that its really happening. I'm talking about kneeling during the flag. I'm done with the black lives matter stuff here. It's not a good place for me to discuss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 @tshile If it doesn't make you uncomfortable or grab your intention, its not much of a protest, now is it? At some point, it did look like the kneeling was backfiring, every black person in America knows that. The response we got wasn't "Hey, we feel you, lets see what we can do", it was "You're overexaggerating the issue and don't care about anybody but yourselves". This was a chance for the NFL to act like they heard both sides, but they didn't, they took the side of most of the Owners, not the players, the people that don't care about this issue versus the ones actually getting killed. This was not the best way to get that attention, I'll agree with you there, but we're supposed to be better then the response we got. We were heading in the right direction, now we're going backwards. Just now, tshile said: I'm talking about kneeling during the flag. I'm done with the black lives matter stuff here. It's not a good place for me to discuss it. Fair, more then fair. It's hard to separate the two, though, so I'm not sure where to talk about this either. Honestly, I'm done until I see what happens between NFL and NFLPA. I've said my piece, its out of my control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Renegade7 said: @tshile If it doesn't make you uncomfortable or grab your intention, its not much of a protest, now is it? There is a difference between: grabbing attention, inconveniencing, making someone uncomfortable, etc and offending 1/2 the country (most of which are your target audience) immediately such that the conversation is not about what you wanted, but instead about you defending what you just did. to the point where they will never under any circumstance get over it and care about what you're protesting until you stop doing what you're doing. kneeling during the anthem/protesting the flag/protesting the pledge accomplished the latter. not the former. i know the people who support the kneeling have found this to be successful because people discuss it. i see it as the opposite. they've discussed the offense towards the flag. it's affected the nfl. the nfl has pushed the kneelers into the locker room and created a policy to fine them if they don't comply. nothing of substance has changed policy wise for the country, for the most part. i don't see how many, if really any, of the target audience has been actually reached and even had their thoughts challenged on the issue. the whole thing looks like a giant failure all the way around to me. keep in mind - the kneeling doesn't even offend me. it's not like i have some position to defend here, it's not even my position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 (edited) Whatever. Just get the stuff off the field and kick off. That's why I'm tuning in. What any of them believe beyond how they're going to get that next first down is something i don't really care about. Frankly, i am tired of idiotic politics infecting every single facet of life. You believe this? Good. You believe that? OK Now both of you shut the **** up, the game is on. ~Bang Edited May 23, 2018 by Bang 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 (edited) I'm not offended by the kneeling. But if the actions of the employees are creating a business problem for the employer and that employer changes the policy so that the employees are not forced to act in contravention of their principles but no longer have the opportunity to protest on the employer's dime while the employer donates a chunk of money to the employees' cause, isn't that a pretty good result for the protesting employees? Edited May 23, 2018 by bearrock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 What I don't get is all the Snowflake this and Snowflake that, but when someone kneels during the National Anthem they lose their minds. Toughen up!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bang said: Frankly, i am tired of idiotic politics infecting every single facet of life. That's about the only stance i took on the issue... i'd rather not have politics be injected into football. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Bang said: Whatever. Just get the stuff off the field and kick off. That's why I'm tuning in. What any of them believe beyond how they're going to get that next first down is something i don't really care about. Frankly, i am tired of idiotic politics infecting every single facet of life. You believe this? Good. You believe that? OK Now both of you shut the **** up, the game is on. ~Bang It got to where FOX and CBS would end the pregame show at 12:50, just to get in commercials and get back in time to show the national anthem. They never used to show it before until the controversy. The kneeling doesn’t bother me at all. I’m bothered more by what you just talked about. I don’t really care to see the national anthem. Just kick off already. Edited May 23, 2018 by pjfootballer 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, tshile said: There is a difference between: keep in mind - the kneeling doesn't even offend me. it's not like i have some position to defend here, it's not even my position. No, I get it. Kneeling during the anthem used to work, until too many of them started doing it. It absolutely backfired, but no one deserves credit for ignoring why they protested because they don't like how they did it. No one. Are we even sure half the country was pissed about this to the point what they were protesting about didn't matter? How is anyone content with the idea (not saying you) that what they are protesting about not only doesn't matter but that even if they stopped that the issue still doesn't matter to them? Keep in mind, Colin started this because he didn't believe it mattered to enough people so he was trying to force attention to the issue. No one deserves credit for saying their mad about the method of protests and then continuing to ignore why they were protesting in the first place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, pjfootballer said: It got to where FOX and CBS would end the pregame show at 12:50, just to get in commercials and get back in time to show the national anthem. They never used to show it before until the controversy. The kneeling doesn’t bother me at all. I’m bothered more by what you just talked about. I don’t really care to see the national anthem. Just kick off already. Yep. In fact wasn't it discovered that Kap was kneeling during the anthem for a handful of games, maybe well into the previous season to little to no fanfare/media attention at all. It wasn't until he was actually interviewed about that people noticed at all. That is when it blew up. Which predictably led media sources like Fox (and others) to create their own imaginary reason for the kneeling and to hijack the narrative. More people seemed to be mad about the protest for a completely made up reason. Also let's just face facts, Protesting is a no-win situation. There is no "right way" to protest without catching at least some kind of backlash. First they will say "protest peacefully" then when you do that very thing, they will mock whatever it is you are protesting about. Edited May 23, 2018 by NoCalMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjunkies Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Yeah mike, you just made things so much worse with your smart ass tweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: No, I get it. Kneeling during the anthem used to work, until too many of them started doing it. I disagree with this entirely. As for the rest of the post - I'm not trying t issue credit anywhere. I'm just trying to explain what I think is happening. I think understanding why people are doing what they are doing, is incredibly vital to communicating with them. Understanding why people are kneeling is important. Understanding why people are mad about it (and no, not the "they just don't care that black people are dying" bull****) is important. For some reason majority of us only seem to be willing to do one of the two. Like everything else our goto move is to build a wall between us and them so we don't have to acknowledge them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Apparently the actual quote from the union was as follows: Quote The NFL Players Association, which was not included in the talks with owners, said the union will review the new policy "and challenge any aspect of it that is inconsistent with the collective bargaining agreement." https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/23/sport/nfl-spring-league-meeting-national-anthem/index.html I don't think that's the same as what that CNN headline claims 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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