Standing during the Pledge or National Anthem

[grego]

9 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Regardless of what you think of the protest, I REALLY dont agree with anyone kneeling this weekend.

I think it was a good move for players to not kneel this weekend. Shows that they are aware of the impression they are giving. 

 

That's how you win friends and influence people. 

[StillUnknown]

2 minutes ago, grego said:

I think it was a good move for players to not kneel this weekend. Shows that they are aware of the impression they are giving. 

 

That's how you win friends and influence people. 

 

that assumes that people are actually open to influence.  they don't want a conversation, they want capitulation

[tshile]

I got a bunch of free tickets from all the vets in my tailgate group. They were all boycotting the nfl this weekend.

 

[grego]

56 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:

 

that assumes that people are actually open to influence.  they don't want a conversation, they want capitulation

 

Some, for sure. Others are there to be convinced. Some people still think conversation is a good thing. 

[Mr. Sinister]

1 hour ago, grego said:

I think it was a good move for players to not kneel this weekend. Shows that they are aware of the impression they are giving. 

 

That's how you win friends and influence people. 

 

Impression? An impression is something that carries more weight when there is little or  no alternative reference point

 

When you specifically come out and say exactly what you are protesting against (not the flag, not the military), and people change the subject to the flag, and the military, all while many players have supported and spent time with vets (and will continue to do so), you really think impressions mean anything to these people you are talking about? They know what they are doing

 

Those are not the hearts and minds that need to be won. They do not want to listen. They clearly want the players to shut up  and give them their football  back (honestly, buying one themselves, and shoving it up their asses would give them all the football they'd ever need). They'd rather see this country destroyed, taking you and me down with it, than do anything remotely resembling critical thinking, self evaluation, or compromise.

 

 Today was in observation of Veteran's day, recognizing the people who fight for American values and principles (which are currently under siege), and honoring them, and the sacrifices they make. And it was to reiterate that this was never about them. 

 

I have given up understanding what is sloshing around inside certain peoples heads when they hear stuff, but i heard the players loud and clear when they said it, and understood. 

 

The military is not all the flag stands for. It is not all this country stands for. It is not the only branch of our government. It is not the only thing that won us independence from the British Empire. It is not the only thing we celebrate. It is not the answer to all of our problems. It is not to be used as a shield when we do not want to confront the uncomfortable issues within our own borders. It is a pathetic insult to every soldier that has ever given their lives for this country, to be reduced to a political weapon in a propaganda war, instigated by an administration that is bereft of anything resembling the America that I know and love (the one they fight for), and a fake president that didn't mind insulting them when he felt like it. It is a further insult for people to stand behind this administration and be complicit in this blatant disrespect, masquerading as patriotism.

 

So after tomorrow, when players continue to honor veterans across the country, I expect the protests to continue. Right now though, this is their moment

 

 

[grego]

7 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

Impression? An impression is something that carries more weight when there is little or  no alternative reference point

 

When you specifically come out and say exactly what you are protesting against (not the flag, not the military), and people change the subject to the flag, and the military, all while many players have supported and spent time with vets (and will continue to do so), you really think impressions mean anything to these people you are talking about? They know what they are doing

 

Those are not the hearts and minds that need to be won. They do not want to listen. They clearly want the players to shut up  and give them their football  back (honestly, buying one themselves, and shoving it up their asses would give them all the football they'd ever need). They'd rather see this country destroyed, taking you and me down with it, than do anything remotely resembling critical thinking, self evaluation, or compromise.

 

 Today was in observation of Veteran's day, recognizing the people who fight for American values and principles (which are currently under siege), and honoring them, and the sacrifices they make. And it was to reiterate that this was never about them. 

 

I have given up understanding what is sloshing around inside certain peoples heads when they hear stuff, but i heard the players loud and clear when they said it, and understood. 

 

The military is not all the flag stands for. It is not all this country stands for. It is not the only branch of our government. It is not the only thing that won us independence from the British Empire. It is not the only thing we celebrate. It is not the answer to all of our problems. It is not to be used as a shield when we do not want to confront the uncomfortable issues within our own borders. It is a pathetic insult to every soldier that has ever given their lives for this country, to be reduced to a political weapon in a propaganda war, instigated by an administration that is bereft of anything resembling the America that I know and love (the one they fight for), and a fake president that didn't mind insulting them when he felt like it. It is a further insult for people to stand behind this administration and be complicit in this blatant disrespect, masquerading as patriotism.

 

So after tomorrow, when players continue to honor veterans across the country, I expect the protests to continue. Right now though, this is their moment

 

 

 

 

i dont disagree with alot of that. like i said above, there are those that will not be won over. cant do anything about that unfortunately. 

 

but there are those that want to listen and have a conversation. thats who i'm talking about. part of the 'impression they are giving' is the impression that they are protesting the flag, and its good that eric reid spoke about that. he said he isnt protesting the flag. credit to him. and if thats what you are speaking about, i agree.

 

but to say people are changing the subject to the flag isnt true. it was about the flag - at least in part- in the beginning, but i recognize reid is saying its not now. 

[Zguy28]

10 hours ago, grego said:

I think it was a good move for players to not kneel this weekend. Shows that they are aware of the impression they are giving. 

 

That's how you win friends and influence people. 

Good luck with that. This issue is beyond reasonable debate. To most veterans its a "barbarians at the gates" attack on all things holy and righteous. Probably second only to Pearl Harbor and 9/11. Just ask my dad or any number of my coworkers in defense. One even boasted how he got up in a young civil servant's face who didn't pause when walking across the parking lot during the 8AM anthem on base.

[grego]

38 minutes ago, Zguy28 said:

Good luck with that. This issue is beyond reasonable debate. To most veterans its a "barbarians at the gates" attack on all things holy and righteous. Probably second only to Pearl Harbor and 9/11. Just ask my dad or any number of my coworkers in defense. One even boasted how he got up in a young civil servant's face who didn't pause when walking across the parking lot during the 8AM anthem on base.

 

it can happen. alot of it is the messenger. a clear message doesnt hurt. 

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

46 minutes ago, Zguy28 said:

Good luck with that. This issue is beyond reasonable debate. To most veterans its a "barbarians at the gates" attack on all things holy and righteous. Probably second only to Pearl Harbor and 9/11. Just ask my dad or any number of my coworkers in defense. One even boasted how he got up in a young civil servant's face who didn't pause when walking across the parking lot during the 8AM anthem on base.

I don't think that is accurate, at least from my experience.  Most of the people I know don't like the protest but understand that we defend their right to do it.  Like so many other topics, I think it is a lot people that never served a day in their life complaining because they think those of us that do/have served are offended.  

[Bozo the kKklown]

10 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

Impression? An impression is something that carries more weight when there is little or  no alternative reference point

 

When you specifically come out and say exactly what you are protesting against (not the flag, not the military), and people change the subject to the flag, and the military, all while many players have supported and spent time with vets (and will continue to do so), you really think impressions mean anything to these people you are talking about? They know what they are doing

 

Those are not the hearts and minds that need to be won. They do not want to listen. They clearly want the players to shut up  and give them their football  back (honestly, buying one themselves, and shoving it up their asses would give them all the football they'd ever need). They'd rather see this country destroyed, taking you and me down with it, than do anything remotely resembling critical thinking, self evaluation, or compromise.

 

 Today was in observation of Veteran's day, recognizing the people who fight for American values and principles (which are currently under siege), and honoring them, and the sacrifices they make. And it was to reiterate that this was never about them. 

 

I have given up understanding what is sloshing around inside certain peoples heads when they hear stuff, but i heard the players loud and clear when they said it, and understood. 

 

The military is not all the flag stands for. It is not all this country stands for. It is not the only branch of our government. It is not the only thing that won us independence from the British Empire. It is not the only thing we celebrate. It is not the answer to all of our problems. It is not to be used as a shield when we do not want to confront the uncomfortable issues within our own borders. It is a pathetic insult to every soldier that has ever given their lives for this country, to be reduced to a political weapon in a propaganda war, instigated by an administration that is bereft of anything resembling the America that I know and love (the one they fight for), and a fake president that didn't mind insulting them when he felt like it. It is a further insult for people to stand behind this administration and be complicit in this blatant disrespect, masquerading as patriotism.

 

So after tomorrow, when players continue to honor veterans across the country, I expect the protests to continue. Right now though, this is their moment

 

 

pretty much

[Zguy28]

1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I don't think that is accurate, at least from my experience.  Most of the people I know don't like the protest but understand that we defend their right to do it.  Like so many other topics, I think it is a lot people that never served a day in their life complaining because they think those of us that do/have served are offended.  

Good to know. Pretty much 90% of those I've heard talk about it see it as spitting on the flag and the military. But I also run in mostly Conservative circles which lends itself to Trumpism.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Zguy28

[visionary]

 

[StillUnknown]

 

Papa out here copping pleas 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Pizza is getting socio-political now, I can't take it anymore.

[Mr. Sinister]

Going after the NFL for their failing pizza (seriously, me and everyone I know has not ****ed with them in an absurdly long time) possibly in some weird attempt to win support with anti-protest people (They took a stand! I want that pizza!) was seriously the dumbest thing I have ever seen. 

Edited November 15, 2017 by Mr. Sinister

[Momma There Goes That Man]

PJ pizza is gross. The only thing I give them credit for is the garlic sauce. 

 

Even their sides are trash 

[visionary]

 

[Mr. Sinister]

Kinda funny that when you really break it down and apply current events to the events leading up to the Revolutionary War, these people would actually be Loyalists.

[zoony]

Marshawn Lynch standing for the Mexican National Anthem.  If it wasnt so tragically ironic it would be funny.  Actually its both

[No Excuses]

Now that politics has crept its way into pizza, sports and coffee machines, I suppose it's only relevant that we are entering the most embarrassing moment in modern political history.

 

CNN will be interviewing LaVar Ball tonight at 10 PM. We are really going to have a LaVar Ball-Trump feud play out. 

 

**** CNN for egging this on. 

[tshile]

Trying to stay current with news is a depressing experience

 

I'm going to have to go full isolationist mode and hope the rest of the country snaps out of it before it actually all falls apart.

 

i'll play golf, work, do the day to day routines with the family, and play xbox.

 

someone come get me when this nonsense is over.

[Mr. Sinister]

6 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

Now that politics has crept its way into pizza, sports and coffee machines, I suppose it's only relevant that we are entering the most embarrassing moment in modern political history.

 

CNN will be interviewing LaVar Ball tonight at 10 PM. We are really going to have a LaVar Ball-Trump feud play out. 

 

**** CNN for egging this on. 

 

Really stopped watching them in early '16 for pretty much the same reason

[spjunkies]

Of course blabbermouth has to reignite the flame.

 

Donald J. Trump 

 

✔@realDonaldTrump

 

Marshawn Lynch of the NFL’s Oakland Raiders stands for the Mexican Anthem and sits down to boos for our National Anthem. Great disrespect! Next time NFL should suspend him for remainder of season. Attendance and ratings way down.

6:25 AM - Nov 20, 2017

[dav87sc]

On 10/30/2017 at 1:28 PM, The Evil Genius said:

Are you confusing 49 with 29?

 

 

Also, maybe read all of the article you link to. It refutes your incorrect premise that the GOP wasn't involved in crafting the ACA.

Try reading 1 more paragraph.

 

Our ruling

Gutierrez said that “hundreds of Republican amendments were adopted” during the drafting of the 2010 health care law. His statement has some basis, because Republican amendments were adopted in both the House and the Senate during the legislative process. Most of these amendments were not particularly meaningful, though, so calling it a bipartisan enactment effort remains a stretch (my emphasis).

 

Bottom line, any Republican amendments didn't do anything to stop the effort of the Democratic side to move "healthcare" into a forced failure of the insurance industry and closer to the single payer system which is the ultimate goal.  I know it is nasty to hear, but yes, single payer is the goal and that is socialism.

Edited November 21, 2017 by dav87sc
corrected mispelling

[visionary]

The stupid baby was busy this morning.