The Supreme Court, and abortion.

[bearrock]

5 hours ago, superozman said:

 

Simple.  Because I could have been sucked out by a Dr after being killed in the womb.  Instead, I was given a chance to live.  I was put up for adoption, adopted and am a contributing member of society today.

 

So for me, I'm "pro-life".

 

Now, does that mean I don't like "women's rights"?  Absolutely not.  I think many would agree, and many of the laws that i have read (particularly GA and OH), that the women's life and health is prioritized and people want it that way.  I understand some don't, and I think that is not a good stance to take if you don't elaborate. 

 

So if that is in the bill, one conflict sometimes that is not is rape.  I think killing a baby in the womb because of rape is a negative on a negative, however, I understand the health impacts of a woman and that could be a woman's decision, IMO.   

 

For me, what should never be, is the fact that if a woman with a man and they choose to have intercourse, the woman ends up being pregnant, there is no reason that baby's life should be terminated.  As adults there comes responsibility.  Now those 2 adults have a responsibility to raise that baby.  Even under tough circumstances they should step up to the plate for the decision they made.

 

This is my view.  I expect to get harassed, but I've seen so much by those screaming how awful these bills are when i think there is a middle, even though I know I would never budge on my last paragraph as people won't budge on their opposite views, I needed to let something out, and this was a good medium for a discussion.

 

Thanks for bringing your perspective to the discussion. Regardless of where we fall on the legalization of abortion, I wish society as a whole can focus more on what we can do to help bring about a happier outcome.  I still think there are impossible situations where I will pass the buck and let the pregnant parents make the decision, but I do think we should view every abortion as a tragedy and an opportunity to reflect on what we could have done better.  I'm glad that things turned out well for you and hope you have many more happiness to come (except Philly sports. Boo.  Boooooooo.  But non sports stuff, cheers!). 

[Simmsy]

2 minutes ago, visionary said:

Signed into law by a female governor. 

At least I can kinda understand why these old (or even young) white guys do this kind of stuff for the GOP...but women? Any minority/woman/LGBTQ/atheist republican needs to be called out for being ridiculous.

[Hersh]

I don't know why anyone would be surprised that the female governor of Alabama would sign this bill. A lot of women voted for a pedophile in the special election for Senate. 

[Popeman38]

When Pat Robertson says an anti-abortion bill is too extreme, that should tell you something. That guy has been campaigning and praying and preaching against abortion my entire life...

[TheGreatBuzz]

Cuomo on CNN starting a bit about abortion law and such right now.  Might be worthwhile.....might.

[Renegade7]

11 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Cuomo on CNN starting a bit about abortion law and such right now.  Might be worthwhile.....might.

 

I can't listen to anyone who loves his own voice as much as he does, I'll keep reading and for Supreme Court smack down.

[Cooked Crack]

Dang. Checkmate, liberals.

[TheGreatBuzz]

57 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I can't listen to anyone who loves his own voice as much as he does, I'll keep reading and for Supreme Court smack down.

Yea it was a waste of time.  I fell for the commercial. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

54 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

Dang. Checkmate, liberals.

 

This take is so horrifically bad its an indictment of the evolutionary theory that after all this time we could somehow still produce such a hack that believes this  

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by visionary

[Cooked Crack]

 

[Springfield]

Like I said, all the conservative states are going after now that Trump is packing the courts.

 

**** Turtle McConnell.  If he would have done his ****ing job then we wouldn’t be in this situation right now.

[LD0506]

24 minutes ago, Springfield said:

Like I said, all the conservative states are going after now that Trump is packing the courts.

 

**** Turtle McConnell.  If he would have done his ****ing job then we wouldn’t be in this situation right now.

 

McConnell did exactly the job he was put in there to do. The disconnect comes from thinking it was somehow NOT to undermine the Constitution and the country.

[No Excuses]

22 hours ago, PeterMP said:

 

I wouldn't call 55-60% a vast majority, and there are plenty of people that support Roe v. Wade, think there should be restrictions and identify as pro-life.  Your link also never puts the numbers out there of 55-60% as identifying as pro-life.  Your link doesn't support what you've said, and even from your story, it is support not COMPLETELY overturning Roe v. Wade.

 

"A December 2016 Pew poll found 69 percent of Americans saying they did not want to see Roe v. Wade completely overturned."

 

There is a difference.

 

I support restrictions as well. That doesn't make my position not pro-choice. You wouldn't label Joe Biden anti-abortion for instance, even though he has repeatedly stated that he does not believe in it personally but agrees that the position of the government should be safe and equal access to abortion procedures.

 

From a policy perspective, American's are pro-choice for the most part, with caveats and nuances. That is a far cry from the garbage that anti-abortion activists are pushing, which is essentially, an end to all access to abortion. Roe has been marching a slow death in the South for the better part of the last decade. I don't think there are more than 5 abortion clinics at the moment across several Southern states.

22 hours ago, nonniey said:

Yep 1% and yes even among those 1% the vast majority are legitimately done. I think it is only between 3 and 10 thousand abortions per year of viable fetuses that are terminated by (ethically challenged?) abortion providers who are protected by the law they work under.  

 

So I take it you are good with that? It is only 3-10 thousand after all.  I'm not good with that.

 

What limited data we have suggests that this 1% seems to be happening because access to early abortion is severely limited, especially for the poor.

 

The Republican position is a complete ban on all abortions, early or late and it seems like this extreme position is driving women to get late-term abortions. Blame the ****ty people you keep voting for. Like I said, you can complain about "friggin extremes", but as long as you support this party, you are part of the problem. I fully support liberal states who provide a sanctuary for women who have their constitutional rights trampled by "friggin extremists" and those who continue to support  and regurgitate the talking points of the "friggin extremists".

[MartinC]

So it seems to come down to a debate over heartbeat.

 

How about this - if a woman has a heartbeat you don’t get to tell her what to do with her body. That work?

[Springfield]

34 minutes ago, MartinC said:

So it seems to come down to a debate over heartbeat.

 

How about this - if a woman has a heartbeat you don’t get to tell her what to do with her body. That work?

 

I think the heartbeat argument isn’t a good gauge of what should and shouldn’t be allowed.

[PeterMP]

47 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

I support restrictions as well. That doesn't make my position not pro-choice. You wouldn't label Joe Biden anti-abortion for instance, even though he has repeatedly stated that he does not believe in it personally but agrees that the position of the government should be safe and equal access to abortion procedures.

 

From a policy perspective, American's are pro-choice for the most part, with caveats and nuances. That is a far cry from the garbage that anti-abortion activists are pushing, which is essentially, an end to all access to abortion. Roe has been marching a slow death in the South for the better part of the last decade. I don't think there are more than 5 abortion clinics at the moment across several Southern states.

 

Realistically, @nonniey wants abortion with some restrictions.  If that it is your level of description, you and him actually agree (and then your comment about him being an extremist makes no sense).  The question in the polls or your post wast not anti-abortion, and I don't honestly know how Joe Biden would describe himself, but the idea of pro-life Democrats is not new or novel.  Tim Kaine certainly doesn't describe himself as pro-choice, and I doubt Biden does either (he certainly didn't when running as a Senator in DE).

 

And yes, there are people that are pro-life in that they want all abortions to be illegal.  But there are also people that are pro-choice that want any and all abortions to be legal (and you can and there are people that want any abortion to be legal, but not support infanticide).

 

But at the level described and based on polls don't support your initial statement.

Edited May 16, 2019 by PeterMP

[MartinC]

17 minutes ago, Springfield said:

 

I think the heartbeat argument isn’t a good gauge of what should and shouldn’t be allowed.

 

I bet. Letting people make their own choices based on their own morality with what to do or not to do with their own bodies seems to be a reasonable starting point though. No?

[twa]

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

So it seems to come down to a debate over heartbeat.

 

How about this - if a woman has a heartbeat you don’t get to tell her what to do with her body. That work?

 

Nope, not when it involves another's body as well.

[MartinC]

Just now, twa said:

 

Nope, not when it involves another's body as well.

 

If men gave birth abortions would be available at ATM machines. 

[visionary]

Edit: Old story.

Edited May 16, 2019 by visionary

[Warhead36]

15 minutes ago, twa said:

 

Nope, not when it involves another's body as well.

Why does what someone else do what their body bother you so much?

 

 

I'm sorry I'm in the boat where I just don't consider it a real human life until they're outside the womb. Until then, they're just a part of the woman, and it is HER CHOICE what she does with it.

 

Its hilarious to me how Republicans always preach "individual freedom, government shouldn't be involved in our lives" but then they whine when women make a choice to have an abortion.

 

Party of complete and total hypocrisy.

[NoCalMike]

So with the obvious goal by all these red state legislatures to get this issue up to the Supreme Court, could the Supreme Court in theory pull a big swerve on them and deny to hear the case and say, "Sorry this has been ruled on before, the issue is settled, follow the courts"

[No Excuses]

1 hour ago, PeterMP said:

Realistically, @nonniey wants abortion with some restrictions.  If that it is your level of description, you and him actually agree (and then your comment about him being an extremist makes no sense).

 

Unless I misinterpreted him, nonniey is in support of the heartbeat measures in Ohio/Georgia and other policies that have driven abortion access to extinction. These aren't abortion with some restrictions, these are blanket bans on abortion masquerading as restrictions.

 

All Alabama's bill does is say the quiet part out loud.