CBSsports.com: Redskins can bluff all they want, but Kirk Cousins holds all the cards

[TK]

 

Not really a funny offer. That's an offer way too low, that you do on purpose to force the other side to draw some cards. Our guys aren't dumb, Kirk's isn't dumb as well.

Horse trading 101. 

 

If you throw out a low ball offer, you're not sold 100% yet because their number hasn't been justified to you. And you're not wanting to pay sticker.

 

Skins can justify 9 easily because Cousins had 8 good games. Every knock you can present will bring the money down, while every positive will raise it. It's just meeting to an agreeable point in the middle to get it done.

[ThomasRoane]

Yea- that would make no sense for Cousins especially. IMO, he's all but guaranteed a pretty damn good short term deal in the 20 mil range as default negotiation position.

And if Cousins is happy with franchise tag, than win-win.

But something tells me it's a much bigger gamble for Cousins and he would be better to avoid it. Injuries, performance and pressure from the fact that he can only match or go down from that number/title (franchise QB) is alot for anybody.

 

LOL that's crazy talk!  Kirk bet on himself last year and won big.  You actually believe his performance will regress with an improved running game, a very stout defense (trusting McCloughan for 2016), and all the players coming back from injury?  Tagging him this year would be a very bad move for the franchise. What if we win the East with Kirk and go two games into the playoffs with him playing good?  In the next year, the franchise tag will scale up along with the price to lock up a QB.  He will have just proved two years in a row that he's the guy.  If I were him?  I'd tell the team to shove their offer and he could get paid even more by a team that is a QB away from a championship.  Like the Jets.

 

Some fans crack me up.  JLC was right about a very important detail.  We haven't had a decent QB since Rypien!  And if you let Kirk go for draft picks what the hell does that mean?  That's a crap shoot as well.  We're about to cut the (can't miss) 2nd pick in the draft that cost us 2 number 1's and a high number 2.  QB's don't just fall into your lap. 

 

TK and JLC (whom I'm not a big fan of) are both right.  This deal will get done. Bruce, Scot, and Jay aren't stupid.  They know what they have in Kirk and won't let management screw it up.  I'm sticking with my prediction that this deal gets done before OTA's. 

[theTruthTeller]

 Less. They opened around 9.

They never asked for that much.

 

Expect the Franchise tag which will still allow for negotiations that will result in a long term deal. 

Does anyone else see the irony in threatening to force Kirk to take $20M for one year unless he signs a contract for $9M/yr for 5 years?

 

I'm not a big fan of escalators, but this seems like the perfect situation for some.  Of course, if I were Kirk, I'd want to know that Garcon and Jackson would both be returning.

[TK]

Good work here from Russell

http://www.dchotread.com/2016/02/24/promises-for-the-redskins

Key here is who is friends with who.

[Jericho]

Would you rather have:

Kirk at 17 mil. and the 21st pick

Or Osweiler at 13 mil and two 1st the next two years.

Or Fitzpatrick at 9 mil and two 1st the next two years.

 

Osweiler is an interesting case. Cause it seems clear he's going to get paid by someone. It's much less clear if he deserves it. The NFL is littered with QBs who looked good over brief stretches and ended up being no good. Just recently Josh McCown had that run with the Bears in 2013 or Nick Foles in 2014 or really much of Colin Kaepernick's career to date. And all those guys accomplished WAY more than Osweiler has.

 

Osweiler's essentially a lottery ticket. And history suggests its far more likely he's a bust than not. But no one really knows for sure. He seems to have hit the perfect storm of being young enough (25), just talented enough (former second round pick), and didn't out right suck enough in his games to be intriguing. But he's also played so little that he's and unknown and quite dangerous to rely on. It usually takes teams 4-5 games to get a good read on a QB and be able to exploit his weakness. Osweiler really didn't do anything super noteworthy in his brief time, and eventually got pulled from starting. And let's face it, he also had the cushiest QB job in the league. Playing in front of that defense made it so he wasn't asked to carry the load or chase teams from behind much. Asking him to be "the guy" and carry a team is a whole nother thing.

 

I get the feeling he'll get way overpaid and which ever team lands him will suffer the double whammy of getting a below average QB AND spending too much on him. Cause if you're going searching for a QB, why not spend much less on a guy like Chase Daniels or Mark Sanchez (if he gets released).

[TK]

Does anyone else see the irony in threatening to force Kirk to take $20M for one year unless he signs a contract for $9M/yr for 5 years?

 

Again, Horse trading. 

http://es.redskins.com/topic/399292-cbssportscom-redskins-can-bluff-all-they-want-but-kirk-cousins-holds-all-the-cards/?p=10526004

 

First offer numbers are always a starting point. However, if you offer a low ball & close on it, congrats, you've just signed a player that has a complete moron for an agent. 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Good work here from Russell

http://www.dchotread.com/2016/02/24/promises-for-the-redskins

 

Russell's hypothesis makes sense, but it seems to me that letting Cousins hit the open market as a way to gauge his value would put us in a precarious position to say the least.  Not a big fan of the idea myself.  I hope we tag him and sign him to a long term deal that makes sense.

 

However, if I knew for sure that we would still sign Cousins after he tested the market, I would be happy to see it happen just for the hilarious response on ES.

[ncr2h]

If we don't get a long term deal done this off-season, our front office is not all it's cracked up to be. We have the opportunity to lock up an Aaron Rodgers 2008 level talent right before he hits his prime, and we can get him at a discount to what he is actually worth. The alternative is waiting a year and paying full sticker price. In a salary cap world, the difference between getting a top tier QB on a discounted deal and paying full sticker price is a super bowl. Aaron Rodgers was on a deal that paid him less than he was worth from 2008-2012. Result? Super Bowl. Brady gets paid around the median QB salary despite being among the league's best. Result? Multiple super bowls.

Then you have Drew Brees down in New Orleans. He won a super bowl back in the day when he was playing on a contract that assumed him to be an injury risk as he was coming off shoulder surgery. Now that he signed a mega deal his team is perennially 8-8 and was actually rumored to be considering his release, as his cap hit is so high that the rest of their personnel evaluation needs to be perfect just to tread water.

We cannot wait on this. If we swing and miss, the worst that happens is were stuck with a bad contract for 2 years while Scot retools the defense with young draft picks. We can still improve. But if we mess this up, we may be stuck in good-not-great territory for the next 10 years and cost ourselves a super bowl.

[TK]

Russell's hypothesis makes sense, but it seems to me that letting Cousins hit the open market as a way to gauge his value would put us in a precarious position to say the least. Not a big fan of the idea myself. I hope we tag him and sign him to a long term deal that makes sense.

However, if I knew for sure that we would still sign Cousins after he tested the market, I would be happy to see it happen just for the hilarious response on ES.

I can definitely see it happening because 1) we've done this for years - have guys go see what their market value actually is & come back letting us match & 2) Scot & McCartney are boys.

[LD0506]

I can definitely see it happening because 1) we've done this for years - have guys go see what their market value actually is & come back letting us match & 2) Scot & McCartney are boys.

 

And that's it in a nutshell, in spite of the earlier snark. Scot has the respect around the  league and the chops to play this out to everyone's advantage without giving a rats ass what the media or fans rave about.

 

Can you even imagine Vinnie the Drooler trying to play this game? We'd be seriously boned then......

[RandyHolt]

Trying to rationalize that low offer.....

 

Maybe Scot saw what I heard alleged by someone (ESPN radio I think) .... that our great play calling schemed up players to be wide open much of the year.  And so maybe Scot's offer reflected that. 

 

Think about it, with no real run game, we almost had to have great play calling, short of just elite QB play.  We did have very good if not excellent pass pro, as well.

 

We didn't see Cousins completing passes to guys completely covered in tight windows nor under a furious rush. I don't think his boot right with 3 targets on 3 different levels was covered the entire year. If Scot thinks he is worth 9M, who are we to say otherwise. 

 

Looking back at the disappointing vanilla game plan vs GB, i wonder if that was a good look at where Cousins is in his development. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Good work here from Russell

http://www.dchotread.com/2016/02/24/promises-for-the-redskins

Key here is who is friends with who.

 

"Before the combine, I was told the two sides would meet directly about Kirk Cousins’ future and that it would be a very important meeting. What was said and how it was said would be very important.

Then Jay Gruden made his announcement. The world reacted and I started checking around and was told emphatically that during the McCloughan-McCartney meeting in Indianapolis, a promise was made.

A promise that was ultimately kept. McCloughan swore to McCartney, according to multiple people with knowledge of the meeting, that Cousins absolutely had every chance to win the starting quarterback job.

I remember telling this to my pals Kevin Sheehan and Thom Loverro in early to mid-March of last year and some people (not them) scoffed. It was true and played out exactly as McCloughan promised."

 

 

 

Wasn't this said publicly in the media as well, anyway?...Russell makes it sound like he's passing on some top secret info. But both Gruden and Scot M always said that starting the first game wasn't guaranteed for Griffin and that he'd have to show that he deserves to remain as starter.

[ThomasRoane]

I can definitely see it happening because 1) we've done this for years - have guys go see what their market value actually is & come back letting us match & 2) Scot & McCartney are boys.

 

They may be boys but if the Jets, Broncos (who could give him Peyton Money and win a Super Bowl with that defense), or the Rams (for spite) throw a crap-ton of money at Kirk then his agent would have to take it even if the Redskins can't match it.  Boys are one thing but business trumps that. 

[SkinInsite]

If Scot is running the show why is everyone freaking out.

Competent organization take time to make sure every contract handed out is beneficial. Isn't that what people want, no player is bigger than the team.

[KokoMike]

Gruden is 100% in with Cousins. There is no other place in the NFL that is better for Cousins. Cousins should accept the Redskins best offer, which will make him rich far beyond his imagination just a few months ago.

[Warhead36]

Trying to rationalize that low offer.....

 

Maybe Scot saw what I heard alleged by someone (ESPN radio I think) .... that our great play calling schemed up players to be wide open much of the year.  And so maybe Scot's offer reflected that. 

 

Think about it, with no real run game, we almost had to have great play calling, short of just elite QB play.  We did have very good if not excellent pass pro, as well.

 

We didn't see Cousins completing passes to guys completely covered in tight windows nor under a furious rush. I don't think his boot right with 3 targets on 3 different levels was covered the entire year. If Scot thinks he is worth 9M, who are we to say otherwise. 

 

Looking back at the disappointing vanilla game plan vs GB, i wonder if that was a good look at where Cousins is in his development. 

Cousins made plenty of throws into coverage. Not every throw QBs make is going to be into tight coverage. Playing QB is about running the system, analyzing the D, and getting rid of the ball to the open guy. That's like, 90% of the battle right there. This notion that a QB isn't any good unless he's throwing perfect passes into tight windows with 3rd string receivers is absurd.

 

Cousins was a damn good QB last year. The offensive system was also good. And he had some good receivers to throw to. It all fits in together.

[Stefanskins]

 But if we mess this up, we may be stuck in good-not-great territory for the next 10 years and cost ourselves a super bowl.

I agree 100%...hopefully just 10 years....could be 25...

I can definitely see it happening because 1) we've done this for years - have guys go see what their market value actually is & come back letting us match & 2) Scot & McCartney are boys.

really? I love McC but that scares the chit outta me...lotta desperate loser teams (present franchise not included)  with no QB and a lot more cap room...

 

and lets face it..who were the 49ers before Montana...GB before Farve...NE before Brady....Steelers before Bradshaw...Seattle before Wilson...Browns before Otto...Broncos before Elway...Phili before....

[ncr2h]

His passes to Jordan reed last year we're mostly wide open, because Jordan reed is among the best route runners in the league and is virtually uncoverable one-on-one. However, I remember a 3rd and 18 conversion to Garcon thrown into traffic, the game winner to Garcon against Philly where the ball had to be placed in a window that couldn't have been more than an inch or two wider than the radius of a football, the "opportunity ball" to Jackson, and many others. Also keep in mind that Cousins was also adept at throwing perfectly placed balls to open receivers, allowing them to pick up yac. One of the reasons our wrs dropped so few passes this year was because the ball was consistently being delivered to their chest/head area, the easiest area for receivers to catch passes (Atlanta and NY games excluded).

[Stefanskins]

 

We didn't see Cousins completing passes to guys completely covered in tight windows..

I dunno bout that...perty tight window to win the phili game...but tight window is subjective....good points though, Randy

I remember telling this to my pals Kevin Sheehan and Thom Loverro in early to mid-March of last year

must you always name drop?...lol

[skins island connection]

 Its a foregone conclusion that KC will be in burgundy & gold; the other guy has been informed indirectly [ as much as we know ] that he will not be here, so that leaves Cousins.

 

 The only thing I don't like is the same-o'l same-ol' song and dance BS that goes into signing him. The only thing it will create is a media bashing, and depending on his agent, god knows what this guy is putting in his head. Finger**** around too much and the media will sniff it out and make it a big off-season issue, which could create some animosity with other players as well as Cousins.

 

Snyder has thrown money at anything with a pulse who plays football who he thinks can help the team, but now is the time to simply give the guy a contract that's not outrageous yet not insulting. He DOES have to prove this wasn't a one-year fluke, and I think he will, but just get it over with already. The organization doesn't need to heat up the leftover plate of drama, just do it quietly with no stand-offs.

[Wildbunny]

They may be boys but if the Jets, Broncos (who could give him Peyton Money and win a Super Bowl with that defense), or the Rams (for spite) throw a crap-ton of money at Kirk then his agent would have to take it even if the Redskins can't match it.  Boys are one thing but business trumps that. 

 

Didn't read the link from TK before my last reply but that bring an angle I didn't envision without not really knowing why. Kirk hitting the market doesn't mean he'll 100% go elsewhere.

 

I didn't know about the boys stuff, but even without it, some guys can be professionals, fair and square and agree on stuff like this. I even think that it happens throughout the whole league each year. Morris will test the market, but if he doesn't get what he thinks he's worth, should he sign elsewhere or sign back for the Redskins if we match, or are close to what he's offered elsewhere?

 

I can definately see some desperate teams offering tons of money to Kirk. But we'll have the opportunity to match it. 

Let's say the Texans offer him 5 years 20M 40 guaranteed. I could see us going up to 5 years 18M and same guaranted. But he also have the opportunity to play for a team he knows, with a coach that believes in him, a system designed to him, not having to move the whole family, stuff like that are take into account. Mrs Cousins opinion have some kind of value as well in here. It's not that rare that people are going for less money than somewhere else, just because they know the team, coaching staff, system...

 

But desperate teams might not have to go full in with Kirk as well. They're not all run by Vinnie Cerrato. Players tends to overvalue themselves more than often. Kirk might thinks his value is 20M, but who knows if one of those desperate teams value him that high?

That's no given. Desperate QB teams are crappy, and have holes all over the place. Some may already having plans on other players, would they change everything for Kirk? That wouldn't be in their advantage to me.

 

That idea of letting him hit the open market is enticing as well, especially if Osweiler or Fitzpatrick do hit it as well. That would really be entertaining and in the Redskins best interest.

 

Business is one thing but that doesn't mean McCartney and McCloughan aren't playing this fair and square and work a deal that suits every parts.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

I would prefer we tag him and make him prove it one more year. Paying a guy $100 mill after one year of production is stupid IMO. Tag him and if he continues to produce pay the man. 

[SkinsGuy]

ESPN Radio reported this morning that Cousins' agent and the Redskins have resumed contract negotiations.

[pjfootballer]

If Scot is running the show why is everyone freaking out.

Competent organization take time to make sure every contract handed out is beneficial. Isn't that what people want, no player is bigger than the team.

Exactly. We got in trouble (cough...Vinny...cough...Fatass) by always being the first one out of the gate and not thinking things through. Relax- Aaron Rodgers.

ESPN Radio reported this morning that Cousins' agent and the Redskins have resumed contract negotiations.

I saw that too.

For those of you panicking, have other teams started negotiating with their players? I haven't seen one. Not ONE. Relax, it will get done. Zero percent chance Kirk is not a Redskin in 2016. Zero.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Cousins made plenty of throws into coverage. Not every throw QBs make is going to be into tight coverage. Playing QB is about running the system, analyzing the D, and getting rid of the ball to the open guy. That's like, 90% of the battle right there. This notion that a QB isn't any good unless he's throwing perfect passes into tight windows with 3rd string receivers is absurd.

 

Cousins was a damn good QB last year. The offensive system was also good. And he had some good receivers to throw to. It all fits in together.

 

Good post. 

 

When Manning was in his prime, he was throwing to guys who were running pretty wide open due to the mental work he did pre-snap. Peyton would have sucked 5-7 years ago if he was required to fit the ball into tight spaces...his physical skills had deteriorated to the point where his throw didn't have a lot of pop and fluttered. He still broke a bunch of QB records in 2013 because he knew how to run the offense to get his guys open. If a QB possesses that ability, who cares about the size of windows?