CBSsports.com: Redskins can bluff all they want, but Kirk Cousins holds all the cards

[Gibbit]

Disclaimer:  I am seeking clarification.

 

People keep saying the non-exclusive tag # is the same as the exclusive tag #.  I have also read that the non-exclusive tag # is based in part on the average of the top five position salaries for the previous five years.  If the latter is the case, it seems, the non-exclusive tag # for quarterbacks is between $16 - $17 million.  That is a lot better then the $19.8 million + I keep hearing.  I hope the non-exclusive tag figure is lower.  

(+ legal stuff)

 

non-exclusive tag is slightly lower if no other team needs a QB. Tagging Kirk is simply a negotiation extension....so reducing the amount of teams negotiating with Kirk is in our best interests

 

**** our passing/receiving game was ****ing lethal this year. I don't understand anyone not wanting to lock that **** up. (Those aren't curse-words if youre reading KC) 

 

Fix the run

 

Build the D

[bobandweave]

Please Redskins brass tag KC for one season and don't get invested in a multi year deal. Anyone else remember Gibbs 2.0 run here? One year up, one year down, one year up, one year down. Anyone remember Mark Rypien and his contract situation? He plays well, holds out to get a new deal we give it to him thinking we finally found our QB of the future and two years later we are selecting Heath Schuler in the draft.

 

Point is, I would rather overpay KC next year after he shows that - Year one wasn't a fluke, he can repeat his high level performance even after he gets paid, and we were wrong to not do this sooner. This is one of the times when I think you rather be wrong then trying to be safe.

 

Overpaying him next season after a tagged year in 16 means that you, me, and the entire world knows he's worth that overpaying contract. If KC shows in 2016 that he is a top 10 or better NFL QB would anyone really care if we paid him 20 vs 25 million a season with the way the salary cap keeps increasing? Maybe but likely No. If he is winning, carving up the division, and becoming a probowl QB no one would care about his contract. On the other hand if he shows in 16 that 15 was a fluke he regresses loses a ton of games will anyone care that we gave him 20 million to find that out? No because we need to know. But say the worst happens and not only did he stick us for 18 in 16, but also 18 the year after and 18 the year after? Yea I think all of us would be pissed about that. That's the real problem

 

Just tag him and move on with 2016 free agency. I like KC but I need to see it again, and I think we all do including KC himself.

 

I also disagree pretty much with this article. The only leverage KC has is if he won't sign a 20 million dollar tag and holds out for a long term deal but we all know he won't do that. He has no real leverage once we use the tag and only has it if we won't use it or decide to let him go and we aren't doing that. That doesn't mean we need to sign him for five years today either worrying we might get a "deal" doing that, when that "deal" could turn out to be a terrible move to make down the road. One more season like last year and I'm all in on a 7 year deal, but today? No long term deal unless we can cut him in 17 without any cap hits.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/pete-prisco/25491536/redskins-can-bluff-all-they-want-but-kirk-cousins-holds-all-the-cards

Jason La Canfora / CBS Sports NFL Insider

February 22, 2016 11:41 AM

Dan Snyder can hem and haw and dig in is heels and pretend that he has a tough decision to make, but in reality he has already been check mated. His back is against the wall and his quarterback has all of the leverage and his football people know it, and he'd be a fool to let Kirk Cousins go anywhere.

Good lord, not the "Dan Snyder" template again...

 

The gamble isn't worth it, the stakes are too high, the risk is very profound and the Redskins are backed into a corner.

They have the franchise tag...they aren't backed into ****.

 

No amount of whispering sweet nothings into the ears of certain media members or trying to create artificial leverage where no real leverage exists or playing word games will change that. Trying to shill the idea that RG3 could be an actual candidate to play quarterback for this team in 2016? Some in the media apparently are willing to perhaps buy it, but this is pure folly. It's beyond laughable to the point that neither team president and chief salesman Bruce Allen nor Snyder would never actually express that sentiment publicly themselves...

 

 

Redskins' president on RGIII: 'We wish him well'

 

Robert Griffin III's time with the Washington Redskins is just about up.

If there were any questions (there weren't) about whether the team would change gears and keep RGIII, president Bruce Allen shut them down Tuesday during an interview with XEPRS-AM in San Diego.

 

"Well, no. I see Robert getting an opportunity with another team," Allen said when asked if RGIII would be back. "We've heard from some teams that are interested. I think he's going to have a choice of a couple teams that will let him excel in the future."

 

 

 

I stopped reading JLC's article after that sentence lol...the rest might have made sense but I don't really care.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

I think "cut off negotiations" is being taken out of context too. I don't think anyone stormed off or said that they were done talking. I think it was more a pause in the negotiations and a plan to resume talks at some point. Without that context, it seems a lot more serious than I think it really is. 

 

My son and daughter constantly ask me for ****. I sometimes "cut off negotiations" and put them to sleep. That isn't me refusing to talk to them about it the next day, it's just me gaining my sanity. 

 

We know that Scot mentioned they would try to work out a deal and if they couldn't they would apply the franchise tag if needed.  We also know that Kirk stated that he wanted to be where "he was wanted" and when asked about the franchise tag, he said that he would be for that as well.

 

With that knowledge, I'd speculate that both sides were perfectly fine on the franchise tag being applied and Kirk making 20 million dollars for one season.  There is the "it never hurts to ask" side of things too.  Kirks agent knows that he could probably get a nice deal from another team while knowing at the same time the Skins aren't going to let that happen for 2016.  Asking for 16-18 million a year long term is absolutely what they are going to do, cause it never hurts to ask.

 

I really think it was nothing more than going through the formalities to satisfy the parties that be.  Which is why they "cut off negotiations" because they are fully prepared to pay him 20 mil next year and see what happens and Kirks side is fine with taking 20 mil next year and see what happens.

 

The only actual leverage Kirk has right now is that he played great in 2015 and forced the Skins to apply the franchise tag so he couldn't get on with another team.  He earned his 20 mil payday and if the Skins were willing to exercise Robert's 5th year (yes I know it was team friendly) and pay him what 16-17 mil next season (if it had worked out), they aren't going to sweat a few more million on Kirk for one year.

[JSSkinz]

The single biggest change, and single most important element operating in our favor is not Kirk's age or experience, not a cap increase or market value for QBs but Scot, Scot & Co., Scot's savvy, Scot's ability to assess value beyond the immediate, the attitude and atmosphere fostered since his arrival.

 

 

 

Scott is amazing, he can do no wrong or make any mistakes, I found this list of his accomplishments:

 

 

His birth was something amazing.

 

Scot McCloughan was born inside of a log cabin beneath the most sacred mountain, where upon the moment he came into this world, a shooting star brought forth a spontaneous change from winter to summer.

 

 

He never pooped. (Not even a little.)

 

The official state-issued biography of Scot McCloughan states that he does not answer to bowel movements like ordinary humans–in fact, he doesn’t defecate or urinate at all.

 

 

He was one bad-ass golfer.

 

During a single round of golf, Scot McCloughan shot a 38 under par–25 shots better than the best round in history. No sweat, it was his first time. He also hit a slightly above-average five hole-in-ones.

 

 

 

He invented the hamburger and knew how to cure world hunger.

 

Back in 1994, in a sudden stroke of genius, invented a new sandwich he brilliantly called “double bread with meat.” He subsequently set up a large manufacturing plant to supply the nation’s universities with quality double bread meat sandwiches.

 

Additionally, he once heard about a German guy breeding giant, oversized rabbits. He immediately decided that continuing to breed such creatures would be the answer to the worlds food shortage problems.

 

 

For two years in the early 90’s, well before it took off as a staple of party rap culture, Scot McCloughan was the world’s largest single buyer of Hennessy Paradis cognac.

 

 

 

He was a worldwide fashion icon.

 

In addition to being an adult beverage trendsetter, several articles were published last year by a conveniently anonymous French fashion writer about the rave reviews surrounding Scot McCloughan's taste in clothes. “People around the world are attracted to and following not only the jacket our Great Leader is wearing, but also his attitude, facial expressions, hand gestures, and even his handwriting,” wrote the columnist.

 

 

He cured dwarfism.

 

In 1989, something known as the World Festival of youth and Students was held. Out of kindness, the Scot McCloughan invented a miracle cure for “shortness” and handed out pamphlets to recruit any pint-sized people to receive treatment prior to the event.

 

He kept up a youthful appearance by regular injection of virgin human blood.

[Gibbit]

 

Scott is amazing, he can do no wrong or make any mistakes, I found this list of his accomplishments:

 

 

His birth was something amazing.

 

Scot McCloughan was born inside of a log cabin beneath the most sacred mountain, where upon the moment he came into this world, a shooting star brought forth a spontaneous change from winter to summer.

 

 

He never pooped. (Not even a little.)

 

The official state-issued biography of Scot McCloughan states that he does not answer to bowel movements like ordinary humans–in fact, he doesn’t defecate or urinate at all.

 

 

He was one bad-ass golfer.

 

During a single round of golf, Scot McCloughan shot a 38 under par–25 shots better than the best round in history. No sweat, it was his first time. He also hit a slightly above-average five hole-in-ones.

 

 

 

He invented the hamburger and knew how to cure world hunger.

 

Back in 1994, in a sudden stroke of genius, invented a new sandwich he brilliantly called “double bread with meat.” He subsequently set up a large manufacturing plant to supply the nation’s universities with quality double bread meat sandwiches.

 

Additionally, he once heard about a German guy breeding giant, oversized rabbits. He immediately decided that continuing to breed such creatures would be the answer to the worlds food shortage problems.

 

 

For two years in the early 90’s, well before it took off as a staple of party rap culture, Scot McCloughan was the world’s largest single buyer of Hennessy Paradis cognac.

 

 

 

He was a worldwide fashion icon.

 

In addition to being an adult beverage trendsetter, several articles were published last year by a conveniently anonymous French fashion writer about the rave reviews surrounding Scot McCloughan's taste in clothes. “People around the world are attracted to and following not only the jacket our Great Leader is wearing, but also his attitude, facial expressions, hand gestures, and even his handwriting,” wrote the columnist.

 

 

He cured dwarfism.

 

In 1989, something known as the World Festival of youth and Students was held. Out of kindness, the Scot McCloughan invented a miracle cure for “shortness” and handed out pamphlets to recruit any pint-sized people to receive treatment prior to the event.

 

He kept up a youthful appearance by regular injection of virgin human blood.

 

 

 

I seriously need new kid on the block-like posters of this guy...swoon

 

Those alcoholic tinged jowls....sploosh

 

But I can say that GMSM cause Ive been ​drunk since noon....bfffs /wink J

[NickyJ]

As many have mentioned, the obsession with Dan Snyder in the article turns me off. It isn't Snyder's decision to make, as La Canfora so desperately implied. It's Scott's decision. Boom. End of story. #InScottWeTrust

 

 

You know the one card Cousins does not hold? 

 

Scot's draft card. 

 

I do think Scot will draft or target a QB this spring.  

 

Doesn't the draft come after free agency? I thought that Cousins would go on the market before the draft, which is why the tag or contract fight is such a pressing one?

 

Edit: If we win a Super Bowl while Scott is our GM, someone needs to make a Scott McCloughan Facts website.

[Gibbit]

As many have mentioned, the obsession with Dan Snyder in the article turns me off. It isn't Snyder's decision to make, as La Canfora so desperately implied. It's Scott's decision. Boom. End of story. #InScottWeTrust

 

 

 

Doesn't the draft come after free agency? I thought that Cousins would go on the market before the draft, which is why the tag or contract fight is such a pressing one?

 

franchise tag goes into effect in July

 

tag him and KC doesn't touch the market. which allows us  to negotiate long term and sign a contract that voids the Franchise tag before july 15 (I think)

 

The pressing thing is if KC is a multi-year performer. That's what we can pay to see(tag) or get a discount if we believe(contract). 

[NickyJ]

franchise tag goes into effect in July

 

tag him and KC doesn't touch the market. which allows us  to negotiate long term and sign a contract that voids the Franchise tag before july 15 (I think)

 

The pressing thing is if KC is a multi-year performer. That's what we can pay to see(tag) or get a discount if we believe(contract). 

So if we were to tag him now, we could technically back out of it before July? If so, then it makes sense. I always thought that it had an immediate effect.

[Gibbit]

So if we were to tag him now, we could technically back out of it before July? If so, then it makes sense. I always thought that it had an immediate effect.

 

Technically no backing out. A contract voids it, but its still KC under different terms

 

Once the tag is designated we are hitched with KC one way or the other...deadline for tag taking effect vs a deal getting done is July somthing

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

There isn't going to be a long term contract at this point, imo.  Just the franchise tag for 2016.  Scot is not going to pay the man big money until he knows for sure that 2015 wasn't a fluke.  That's why the "negotiations" if you want to really call it that "broke down" so quickly, it's just the formality of doing business.

[TSO]

There isn't going to be a long term contract at this point, imo. Just the franchise tag for 2016. Scot is not going to pay the man big money until he knows for sure that 2015 wasn't a fluke. That's why the "negotiations" if you want to really call it that "broke down" so quickly, it's just the formality of doing business.

I have to disagree here, though it's more of a gut feeling than anything else (as is your opinion).

I think both sides clearly prefer a long term deal being made versus the franchise tag being applied and I don't think the football people within the organization need to "see" much "more" from Kirk. I believe they are confident in their assessment and that he IS a long term answer here.

Will be interesting though, you may be right in the end but I'll be really surprised if no long term deal gets done.

[pjfootballer]

A long term deal is better for both parties. Us for the cap and him for the pay.

[chipwhich]

I have to disagree here, though it's more of a gut feeling than anything else (as is your opinion).

I think both sides clearly prefer a long term deal being made versus the franchise tag being applied and I don't think the football people within the organization need to "see" much "more" from Kirk. I believe they are confident in their assessment and that he IS a long term answer here.

Will be interesting though, you may be right in the end but I'll be really surprised if no long term deal gets done.

 

Mark my word, there will be a long term deal.  Would be shocked otherwise.

[Jumbo]

I don't think anyone else here has the guts to say it out loud, so I will make the call for the truly smart choice here: it's time to talk Jason Campbell out of his too-early retirement and return to the home he never should have left.

[NickyJ]

I don't think anyone else here has the guts to say it out loud, so I will make the call for the truly smart choice here: it's time to talk Jason Campbell out of his too-early retirement and return to the home he never should have left.

I would agree, but I hear Todd Collins is going to be on the market, and I'd hate to let him slip away again.

[theTruthTeller]

Technically no backing out. A contract voids it, but its still KC under different terms

 

Once the tag is designated we are hitched with KC one way or the other...deadline for tag taking effect vs a deal getting done is July somthing

I believe that the tag can be revoked by the team up until the point that the player signs the franchise contract.

 

There isn't going to be a long term contract at this point, imo.  Just the franchise tag for 2016.  Scot is not going to pay the man big money until he knows for sure that 2015 wasn't a fluke.  That's why the "negotiations" if you want to really call it that "broke down" so quickly, it's just the formality of doing business.

In my mind, the franchise tag is big money.  If Kirk doesn't work out this year, Scot will need to use the first rounder next year or they'll need to give Kirk another chance.  My guess is that they'd give him another chance and use a lower round pick on a QB.  If Kirk is going to start for two years, you might as well sign him to a long term contract.  Yes, there would be a big cap hit in 2018 if he were cut, but there would be nearly offsetting cap savings in 2016 and 2017.  As I discussed in the other Kirk thread, most big dollar contracts these days have guaranteed money which is pretty close to two years of the salary average over the life of the contract.  Cam Newton did a little better than that, but he was in a really good bargaining position.  Wilson got almost exactly two years of avg salary guaranteed, and he's in a lot better position than Kirk.

 

I'm weary of the "we need to look at Kirk another year to see if 2015 was a fluke" argument.  The team made the playoffs this year and Kirk was a solid contributor to the team.  But he's not the team.  He's been here four years.  If Scot can't accurately assess his ability now, how does he plan on selecting a QB in the future with far less information?  

[Warhead36]

I think McC is perfectly happy with giving Cousins a long term deal, but he isn't going to break the bank for him. He probably offered something in the $15 Mil range and the Cousins camp wants $20 Mil+ which is elite superstar money(which McC doesn't feel Cousins is just yet, and I agree).

[illone]

 

Scott is amazing, he can do no wrong or make any mistakes, I found this list of his accomplishments:

 

 

His birth was something amazing....

 

 

 

 

LOL!  This reminds me of the Mark Brunell thread.  I wonder if that can be bumped now hahaha.

[Audible_Red40]

It is a pretty good article by JLC.  I agree with most of what he says.

 

My opinion is he gets signed to a long term deal in the 16-18 million dollar range.

[TK]

He probably offered something in the $15 Mil range

Less. They opened around 9.

and the Cousins camp wants $20 Mil+

They never asked for that much.

Expect the tag which will still allow for negotiations that will result in a long term deal.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

 Less. They opened around 9.

They never asked for that much.

 

Expect the Franchise tag which will still allow for negotiations that will result in a long term deal. 

 

Wow, that's a LOW first offer. If Cousins' side actually did break off negotiations, I wouldn't have blamed them. 

 

Edit...I mean think about $9M per season. The Redskins essentially cut the top-level of the $15-18M range in half which would be the equivalent of Cousins coming to them with an initial number of ~ $30M (doubling the bottom-level of the range). 

 

Nuts. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 Less. They opened around 9.

They never asked for that much.

 

Expect the Franchise tag which will still allow for negotiations that will result in a long term deal. 

 

$9 mil per?....I'm insulted FOR Cousins lol...

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Yeah I know that business but that's a pretty funny offer. I bet his agent got a good laugh out of that.

[Wildbunny]

There isn't going to be a long term contract at this point, imo.  Just the franchise tag for 2016.  Scot is not going to pay the man big money until he knows for sure that 2015 wasn't a fluke.  That's why the "negotiations" if you want to really call it that "broke down" so quickly, it's just the formality of doing business.

 

I really don't see us going for the Tag and stop every contract negotiations. Tag will be applied to prevent another team from entering the show and takes us into a bidding war.

It's fine to use the tag in a See what you have in tank mode for one more year. But that's short term business. Our FO (Scott, Bruce, Dan, and Jay), Kirk also, are thinking mid term, long term here. You have to think about 2017, 2018 and maybe 2019 (where we'll reach Jay's end of contract if he reaches it.

 

In our situation, everyone knows we're not going QB in the 1st. And the crop of FA QB isn't great. Everyone knows that. So, we're gonna ride with Kirk in 2016 because he had a good year, he was improving all year long, and did it without much of a running game and a defense. 

It's highly probable that, statistically wise, he'll regress a bit in 2016, maybe going up from 11 to 15/16 ints. That his % rate will go from 70 to 68 or so... At worst, he'll be "serviceable" going into 2017.

 

The only QB under contract right now is RG3, and our president just wished him well on his next stop. So, we have to ride with Kirk, in 2016 and 2017, at least. We know that, Kirk knows that, and the whole NFL knows that. If Kirk burns through flames in 2016 (which would something like 20 TD, 30 ints and 60% in my view of it) you'd have to go with a rookie QB in 2017? With a full list of QB that aren't already on the team? 3 QBs new to the team, new to the system? Or at best with 1 year onto it? Doubtful.

 

So, it's way better for every one to sign a long term deal. Point will be for the Team to have any easy exits come year 3 of the contract. But between 1 and 2? it's not likely. 

 

 Less. They opened around 9.

They never asked for that much.

 

Expect the Franchise tag which will still allow for negotiations that will result in a long term deal. 

 

TK, I love ya. You're one of the reasons I keep on coming here, each time you post around here I feel like I know Jay or Scott personnally. 

 

Yeah I know that business but that's a pretty funny offer. I bet his agent got a good laugh out of that.

 

Not really a funny offer. That's an offer way too low, that you do on purpose to force the other side to draw some cards. Our guys aren't dumb, Kirk's isn't dumb as well. I'm pretty sure they're all keeping an eye on the Brock Osweiler's situation that could change lots of things. Osweiler won't be Tagged. So the Broncos have to sign him prior to March 9th if they don't want him to go into FA. 

 

But the Broncos are handcuffed to Peyton's decision to retire or not... Peyton's gonna impact our contract somehow.

If Peyton retire, the Broncos are gonna pay Osweiler some starting contract. And if they sign him to 15/18M, Kirk might be willing to go up. If they sign Brock to 8/10, we might get a small discount as well...

If Peyton keeps on playing, the Broncos have to pay Osweiler some back up short term contract (2/3 years). And we're free to negotiate as we will.

 

Now, if the Broncos pay starter money to Osweiler and Peyton doesn't retire, they're in trouble, and somehow us as well, as starting QB would be higher than back up money no?