McLoughan's big decision: what kind of team identity do we want?

[Tsailand]

Or, another way to look at it: which do you think will make Kirk Cousins look better?

1). Another WR.

2). A better run game.

 

3) Better pass protection.

[Bacon]

We need to put a ton of work into our pass rush. It isn't any good and we have a lot of young guys in the secondary that need help. Outside of an answer at safety, we should leave the secondary alone and focus solely on building our defense to hit hard, play nasty and opportunistic. Dominate the trenches. A defense like what the Giants had during their recent Super Bowl years. 

 

Don't waste money on RBs. Focus on improving the line, which isn't very good at all right now, and the run game will improve naturally without any investment in backs. I agree that we need to focus on being pass first because it would be a waste to change tack at this point. Make lots of big plays on defense, force turnovers and score quickly. Absolutely bury teams early and often.

 

We're not actually all that far from being that kind of team now, but we need stronger balance on offense in order to seal games off and a pass rush to make it difficult for teams to pass their way back into a game.

[BuhBuhBiggie]

I think we address the O-Line, but Lavauo was doing well before he went down, so maybe just Center? Garcon plays the game big, so I really don't wanna break up the WR core at all. We already have a big receiver in Reed, and Niles will be back next year as our prototypical TE. LB LB LB! Foster and Compton did very well for us, so I say bring back Foster and sign him long term. Keenan and Perry just don't cut it, though Keenan was more hurt, so that could've been it. Riley is a mess in coverage and wasn't great against the run either. I like the kid from Notre Dame or Bama, or another top CB would work too. I think we have a gem in Dunbar, so CB may need to be addressed in the 2nd or 3rd round. DE or LB at 21 should be a priority for us, unless Treadwell somehow falls that far...

[skinny21]

Good point especially in this division where you arguably have 2 of the best receivers in the NFL. I doubt KC lets Berry get to FA. Maybe Weddle but he's 30 so not sure he fits Scot's profile. So I gather this won't be an easy get.

I haven't studied the draft much yet but I've been reading its according to most a decent draft for safety especially compared to last year.

I'd have guessed Hall might be our stop gap here with a rookie coming in and competing/developing, but I was surprised to hear they considered Hall more of a SS (and I believe the coaches were encouraged by his play). Not sure if that was by necessity (with Goldson at Free and Robinson/Johnson struggling), but I'll be curious to see if that sticks. The problem you run into, if you go with Hall/rookie at FS, is experience - it's not the usual vet/rookie scenario. I think Hall/Ihenacho/Jarrett makes more sense, but then you're missing the vet to pair with a draft pick at FS - so it'll be interesting if we stick with Goldson or go with a FA (Gipson's the only one that really stands out to me).

I'd argue dominating NT in a 34 but you know this already.

And we still need one.

Hail.

Interestingly, convo about the Colts D with Manning got me thinking - what about the importance of strong safeties? You've got the usual guys you immediately think of: Chancellor, Polumalu, Sanders - guys who's defenses struggled with their absence, but then a guy like Pollard - everywhere he went team's run D improved significantly. Of course, Pollard wasn't a cover guy and was exposed in the passing game, but the point is that one good SS can markedly improve a defense... particularly the run D.

[Cooleyfan1993]

Here's the weird thing with Alf. That first game, I thought he looked the best of any of our RBs almost all season. He looked legit. And then the wheels came off. It was just really odd.

That was about the time when luavao got injured right? Morris was great the first two games before luavao got hurt. Our whole running game sucked after that.

[wilco_holland]

I do not qeustion your logic. Its a legitimite strategy but....

....are you then diverse enough? You can not win every game with air raid and rush D. There will be games where they force you to run and play strong D.

I would invest in our run game because its sets up a lot of our playaction plays. Its a vital part of the O. And it gives us the ability to abuse matchups. You play against a team that struggles to stop the run? Run ir more. You play against the league worst pass d? Pass it more.

The concept of this O is very balanced and I think going forward thats going to be its strength.

Im not sure what our D is. There is not a clear vision in type of players or in the playcalling. I'm still looking for this team to develop an identity on that side.

[markmills67]

That was about the time when luavao got injured right? Morris was great the first two games before luavao got hurt. Our whole running game sucked after that.

It's not looking good for Lauvao, he has had a 2nd operation and looks like a further 6 months on the sidelines.

[Cooleyfan1993]

It's not looking good for Lauvao, he has had a 2nd operation and looks like a further 6 months on the sidelines.

Ugh yep saw that. I don't see him in our long term plans

[goskins10]

I do not qeustion your logic. Its a legitimite strategy but....

edit...

The concept of this O is very balanced and I think going forward thats going to be its strength.

Im not sure what our D is. There is not a clear vision in type of players or in the playcalling. I'm still looking for this team to develop an identity on that side.

 

You should really add pts/gm to your Barry watch. That's what wins games. Last yr under Has we were 29th. This year we were 17th. Also, maybe it's better to compare against our team last year instead of Detroit since the teams have nothing to do with each other.

 

As fro our identity, when you have a revolving door due to injuries it's pretty difficult to play anything more than basic concepts. We finished with 3 guys not even on the team to start the season playing significant minutes on D.

[wilco_holland]

You should really add pts/gm to your Barry watch. That's what wins games. Last yr under Has we were 29th. This year we were 17th. Also, maybe it's better to compare against our team last year instead of Detroit since the teams have nothing to do with each other.

 

As fro our identity, when you have a revolving door due to injuries it's pretty difficult to play anything more than basic concepts. We finished with 3 guys not even on the team to start the season playing significant minutes on D.

 

Yeah when I copy pasted the numbers out of my excel I forget the last column with the PPG. And the you Barry watch was started because everybody said he would suck...and they kept refering to the Detroit team. So I said let's give him a chance maybe he learned from it. When you **** up once in life it doesn't mean you will **** it up forever. 

 

I agree that injuries limited Joe Barry but that also means that we haven't seen the real Joe Barry's D. Based on offseason additions and the games I watched Joe Barry and Scot want an one-gap 4-3 D with 3-4 looks.  Use the dlineman with a hand in the ground to suply pressure. That's also the reason why Chris Baker had an amazing season because this fits him very well. Beside that they like players who are know as 'hard hitters'. Every player we brought in has willingness to tackle hard and we lead the league in forced fumbles (I believe). 

 

Based on that I think we need to find a strong ILB who can get off blocks. In a one gap D the LB's we run into olineman sometimes and then they need to be able to get passed that. I also think that's the reason why Foster played well. And I like to add a DT/DE to replace the Hatcher role. We do not have young guy at that position and that will hurt long term. Both players need to be hard hitters. 

[Skinsinparadise]

new one on Scot from Mike Jones

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/one-year-in-scot-mccloughan-has-already-transformed-the-redskins/2016/01/12/e8a565a8-b977-11e5-829c-26ffb874a18d_story.html?tid=ss_tw

 

“He saw things in us that others didn’t. He’s got that eye,” Blackmon said. “That’s his life. That’s it. He even has the GM stance. Wide stance, elbow on his wrist and his hand on his chin. That’s him. He’s passionate and he loves football. This isn’t a hobby for him. This is his way of life. And it’s pretty cool, because his son comes here, and his son’s the same way. Just loves it. That’s why you want to fight and fight for him. I’m forever grateful.”

Now, as the offseason begins, Phase 2 of McCloughan’s rebuild kicks off. The Redskins emerged from this season having identified their quarterback of the future while nailing down other key pieces to the puzzle. But much work, McCloughan says, remains.

“Got to get better. Got to get better,” he’ll tell anyone asking about the roster.

And so, the acquisition of more building blocks will continue.

“He’ll be relentless,” Casserly predicts. “He’s not giving up.”

[Burgold]

I think the identity McCloughan wants can be summed in three words: tough, serious, effective. That starts with the lines. We are getting better there, but still have room to go. Last preseason, he said he wanted opponents to feel they've played the Redskins. For the most part, that happened. The Eagles still took us lightly, but other teams began looking at us as a real opponent. 

This was a real blue collar effort. A few blue chippers, but mostly cast offs, youths, and grinders. You can say they overachieved. I say they worked. They worked hard and they pushed as hard as they could.

 

I think that's the identity. I think that's the identity even as we get more talented. The pass/run balance is off, but that's partly due to us not being an effective running team and a little bit because in his heart Gruden loves the passing game best, but our identity is not balance... it's tough, serious, effective. This is a team that will work, fight, and max out.

 

I can dig that.

[KDawg]

I think everyone would like to run more. However, our interior was weak.

LeRibeus had a rough go, but developed chemistry with Long and Scherff. So he knew what they were doing even though his level of play wasn't great.

Lichtensteiger was injured, and came back rusty and out of sync with Long and Scherff.

Long was an adequate backup but not much more. And he seemed to be better in pass pro than the run game.

Scherff did alright, and has a bright future. But struggled at times in the run and pass game. Rookie struggles aren't too much of an issue, but it helps illustrate how weak our interior OL was.

Lauvao was the only OL on the interior that was a difference maker. Coupled with a healthy Lich, and the chemistry they shared, the run game flourished.

We need to improve at the center spot. We need a starter quality player on the roster, I'm not even sure it's Lich. Lich as a backup would be great, on my opinion. Of course, let him compete for that spot (all spots should be open for competition).

A healthy Lauvao and a 2nd year Scherff should make a significant difference.

If we can run the ball, that's going to help Kirk and the passing game considerably. That MUST be a priority.

[skinny21]

Agreed coach - plenty of help needed all over the place, but a boost in the run game will trickle down to the passing game and defense. In-house, I'm hopeful that getting Paul and (eventually, hopefully) Lauvao back, along with another offseason in the system, and improvement from Scherff and Moses will improve things. Need to address center, though I'm not sure how quickly a rookie will make a difference there. A solid in-line TE would help (Paul is likely an upgrade over Reed in this role, but I'd be hesitant to rely on him alone).

Priority #1) fix run game, #2) add to defense - the middle especially (Dline, MLB, S) and #3) pass offense - all around weapon that can block, stretch the field and help in the short to intermediate passing game.

[KDawg]

See I think fixing the run game gives relief to the D. Our defense does one thing exceptionally well: force turnovers.

With a ball control offense, a defense that bends and forced turnovers is acceptable, in my opinion. With an offense that is hit and miss, the defense needs to be extremely stout.

We can get by with relative upgrades and excellent competition defensively IF we fix the running game and can control the clock. If we can't control the clock, resources need to be spent on enhancing the defense and focusing on an offense centered totally around the passing game.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

I don't think this is an either or decision. Work with what you got, but Talent rules the day, as has been mentioned already.

You can be Physical and be pass first.

By any means necessary, In Scott and Jay I trust.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Use FA for D and draft for O.  Hopefully there's a WR we can justify using our #1 on.  TE should be fine when our injured guys come back, esp. Niles Paul.  LG and C are needs.  If we're going to emphasize one over the other, I'd go O.  Give Cpt. Kirk the best crew in Starfleet.

 

We will not draft a WR with the #21 pick.  We are good at LT, RG and RT.   We could use a LG or C, and it's possible that we could snag one late in the first round (guard not center).  

 

Based on Scot's previous tendencies in the drafts he has been involved in (with SF and SEA), yes I know Schneider is the GM, but Scot was a big part of those drafts and philosophies., I predict he will go either DT or DE in the first round.  Possibly in the second round too, though he could go guard in the second. 

 

Basically, I think we will be building the trenches first and adding the best depth available in the later round picks.  We don't need a WR and if he does take one, which I don't think he will considering he took Crowder late (4th round) and brought up Ross and there is still Grant, it would be in late rounds.  And lets not forget that our starters are DJax and Garcon, so I don't see any need drafting another WR for depth.  Most likely that would come in FA or signing an UDFA.  

 

We do need to get rid of Andre Roberts though..........

 

As for the running game, he drafted Matt Jones last year, and I assume that is to replace Morris since they basically worked Almo out of the game plan.  We have CT and I'm not sure, but after coming in and playing really good for as little as he played, Pierre Thomas might get a shot (I know he's older, but looks like he has some left in the tank).  

 

I could see a RB maybe in late rounds (4-7).  I have to be honest, I haven't got to see all the FAs that will be available at every position yet, so that impacts my above predictions.  Drafting wise, we will get a better idea after the FA signing period and find out who we retained and who we let walk and who retired.

[KDawg]

I don't think this is an either or decision. Work with what you got, but Talent rules the day, as has been mentioned already.

You can be Physical and be pass first.

By any means necessary, In Scott and Jay I trust.

You're right. Physical and pass first aren't either or. Style mesh between O and D matters, though.

[markmills67]

We will not draft a WR with the #21 pick. We are good at LT, RG and RT. We could use a LG or C, and it's possible that we could snag one late in the first round (guard not center).

Based on Scot's previous tendencies in the drafts he has been involved in (with SF and SEA), yes I know Schneider is the GM, but Scot was a big part of those drafts and philosophies., I predict he will go either DT or DE in the first round. Possibly in the second round too, though he could go guard in the second.

Basically, I think we will be building the trenches first and adding the best depth available in the later round picks. We don't need a WR and if he does take one, which I don't think he will considering he took Crowder late (4th round) and brought up Ross and there is still Grant, it would be in late rounds. And lets not forget that our starters are DJax and Garcon, so I don't see any need drafting another WR for depth. Most likely that would come in FA or signing an UDFA.

We do need to get rid of Andre Roberts though..........

As for the running game, he drafted Matt Jones last year, and I assume that is to replace Morris since they basically worked Almo out of the game plan. We have CT and I'm not sure, but after coming in and playing really good for as little as he played, Pierre Thomas might get a shot (I know he's older, but looks like he has some left in the tank).

I could see a RB maybe in late rounds (4-7). I have to be honest, I haven't got to see all the FAs that will be available at every position yet, so that impacts my above predictions. Drafting wise, we will get a better idea after the FA signing period and find out who we retained and who we let walk and who retired.

In my opinion we should upgrade C before G, and if that means using our 1st round pick then so be it. We need to get better and bigger at C.

[fearlessNelms]

It's all about the lines. A dominant offensive line greatly helps all your skill players on O maximize their ability. A dominant defensive line will stop the run, put pressure on the opposing QB and will ALWAYS make your secondary better. Bottom line: Dominant O-line= Top ten offense. Dominant D-line= Top ten defense. A top ten offense and a top ten defense= A whole bunch of wins every season and a legitimate shot at winning the big prize annually. 

[Burgold]

It's all about the lines. A dominant offensive line greatly helps all your skill players on O maximize their ability. A dominant defensive line will stop the run, put pressure on the opposing QB and will ALWAYS make your secondary better. Bottom line: Dominant O-line= Top ten offense. Dominant D-line= Top ten defense. A top ten offense and a top ten defense= A whole bunch of wins every season and a legitimate shot at winning the big prize annually. 

I agree, but think too of the progress.

 

2014

O Line Pass Pro   D-

O Line Rush         C+

Passing offense    D

Rushing offense   C

Overall Defense   D-/F

 

2015

O Line Pass Pro  B+

O Line Rush D

Passing offence  A-

Rushing Offense D

Overall Defense  C

 

Mind you, I just made up those grades, but they feel right to me

[goskins10]

So the question in the op was what kind of Identity do we want. Not saying it's  good or bad, but it appears the thread has headed in the direction of what players should we draft.

 

I am going to offer a slightly different point of view.

 

I have never been in the FO of an NFL team, so I know of this first hand, I can only go from what I see from the outside. Having said that, from what I see the GM is no the one who decides what type of team you have in terms of if you are running team, a passing team, a DSef team etc outside of picking the HC. Once the HC is in place (in this case he was already there) the identity of the team on the field is up to the HC. 

 

The impact of the GM is after discussions with his HC, player personnel and others, he gets the type of player you want - in other words the increased toughness, harder working players, students of the game. It's the GMs responsibility to find those guys who can make it in the NFL. But its' the HC who forms the identity with schemes, game plans etc.

 

Let's look at this year. We came out as a running team. We did so very well the first 2 games until Kl and SL went out. We stayed that way for another 6 to 8 gms trying to e a running team. Then Gruden, McShay and the other coaches, think, it's clear we are not a running team this year but the pass is doing pretty well. Let's change our game plans to fit that mold. We then win 4 in a row including 5 of the last 7 and make the POs!  

 

Now the season is over, Jay, Joe, Sean, and the other coaches will sit with Scot and let him know the positions we need. It will be on Scot to find the position and make sure the guy fits what the teams wants in the intangibles so he has the best chance of fitting into the team.  

[NewCliche21]

 

EDIT:  But to answer your questions - if we go on to be a "offensive juggernaut" type team, we'll need a legit running back, at least 1 more legit linemen, and a premier safety.  Premier safety is the key, because he will for you to hold the ball just a bit longer.

 

YES.  How many plays did you see made against us and think to yourself, "Sean wouldn't have let that happen."  That's what a Taylor, Berry, Reed, etc. give to you.  

 

Kerrigan was THIS close to so many sacks, and with the safety you're describing providing THIS much more hesitation, we'd have a lot more quarterbacks on their asses.

 

I really think safety needs to be our top priority if it's an elite one.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

In my opinion we should upgrade C before G, and if that means using our 1st round pick then so be it. We need to get better and bigger at C.

I don't think a center will be on his BPA at 21, most likely later rounds. Again, all that will change as he retains/cuts/let's players walk and who we sign in FA.

I wouldn't bet on a center on the first few rounds though.

[NewCliche21]

I don't think a center will be on his BPA at 21, most likely later rounds. Again, all that will change as he retains/cuts/let's players walk and who we sign in FA.

I wouldn't bet on a center on the first few rounds though.

 

If Dallas can hit on it, then Scot can (if that center exists).