The immigration thread: American Melting Pot or Get off my Lawn

[Larry]

15 minutes ago, Hersh said:

 

Huh?

 

Please don't ask him for more on that theme. 

 

 

[LD0506]

13 hours ago, Hersh said:

 

All that did was make me angry. The lack of compassion is the root cause of many of the problems we face today. Whether it’s DACA, the environment, health care, and on and on. 

 

The thing that struck me was the way the same old tropes keep getting repeated, just get legal, do the work, there's a way, etc., when it really boils down to a bunch of ill-informed, non-informed people blatting about a topic they know nothing about. They just parrot some version of what they've heard or been told over the years rather than actually trying to learn something.

 

One of the big lies in this country is "Everyone's entitled to their opinion". This is bull****, if you don't know what the **** you're talking about it isn't an opinion, it's a bias. Left and right, people do this all the time to give the appearance that they are smart, that they are in the know or up on current events, blah blah blah....

 

There's a lot of finger-wagging here at Faux News and Trumpies and right, etc. (a good bit of which I have joined in on tbh) but it is not really confined to any one segment of the population. I'd be willing to bet that Kimmel could get a bunch of lefties on camera to act the fool if they staged the situation right.

 

Knowing wtf you're talking about is hard, it takes work, it takes time and probably most important of all, it takes the character to set aside your ego and admit you don't know something, but are willing to learn. So much of the current angst stems from insecure people dealing poorly with societal stress that are ripe for the picking by those willing to use them for their own ends.

[Bozo the kKklown]

15 hours ago, Hersh said:

 

All that did was make me angry. The lack of compassion is the root cause of many of the problems we face today. Whether it’s DACA, the environment, health care, and on and on. 

They are mentally ill and bitter. Its that simple.

[balki1867]

2 hours ago, LD0506 said:

 

Knowing wtf you're talking about is hard, it takes work, it takes time and probably most important of all, it takes the character to set aside your ego and admit you don't know something, but are willing to learn. So much of the current angst stems from insecure people dealing poorly with societal stress that are ripe for the picking by those willing to use them for their own ends.

 

This is the crux of the problem. We pretty much live in a personality cult at this point. Having zingy one-liner comebacks is considered a sign of intelligence, whereas understanding the nuances of a complex issue and being able to absorb new information to update your viewpoints is seen as a sign of indecisiveness.

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by visionary

[JCB]

****ing ghouls. Shame on them and on anyone who thinks this is okay.

[balki1867]

ICE is the bottom of the barrel when it comes to law enforcement, so naturally we give them the most constitutional leeway to do their jobs.

[NoCalMike]

On a basic human rights level, I am not sure what kind of person would want to send back folks who have been in the country since they were children.  This country is their country, it is their home. Period.  They are Americans for all intensive purposes.  

 

I don't care if you have to literally open a special office building to make them instant citizens, just do it and be done with it.  Stop using them as pawns and continually having their entire lives hanging in the balance in order to energize a political campaign.  

[thinwhiteduke]

10 hours ago, Hersh said:

 

Huh?

well, of course you dont understamd. Youve been trained to follow and believe authority since the day you were born.

 

[Cooked Crack]

35 minutes ago, thinwhiteduke said:

well, of course you dont understamd. Youve been trained to follow and believe authority since the day you were born.

 

Tell us more.

[tshile]

2 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

On a basic human rights level, I am not sure what kind of person would want to send back folks who have been in the country since they were children.  This country is their country, it is their home. Period.  They are Americans for all intensive purposes.  

I disagree with my liberal friends a lot on immigration, but even I agree with that.

 

It's cruel. I love calling out my republican family for being cruel when they say they want them out. Assholes.

 

Side note a friend of mine actually said intensive purposes and I asked him to explain what that meant. If was great.

[Hersh]

1 hour ago, Cooked Crack said:

Tell us more.

 

I'm excited to see where this goes. 

[thinwhiteduke]

4 minutes ago, Hersh said:

 

I'm excited to see where this goes. 

Quote

Tell us more.

 

your response shows youve never thought about it beyond the propaganda fed to you on how to think about it.

there is no immigration problem. its all made up. why does anyone need to ask permission to go anywhere?

there are people that have to wait to do paper work to get a loved one to come over? have to pay fees? its all busy work for govt.. known as - order through chaos. 

why as a people do we bother following ridiculous rules made for you by people in suits you dont know and were chosen for you?

  giving me two choices for president is not freedom of choice. You/I never selected either to run. Someone else with money and power did..

   your vote never actually counted. They choose who wins and who loses..

No one actually thinks for themselves. They wait like trained dogs to see what govt and media tell them to think and who to trust.

  immigration is just another made up rule for govt to make money on and give people govt jobs.

 

calling someone illegal for going over a made up border?

you have no way of proving crime and so called illegal immigration. Its all made up to sway your thoughts and opinions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

[Hersh]

10 minutes ago, thinwhiteduke said:

 

your response shows youve never thought about it beyond the propaganda fed to you on how to think about it.

there is no immigration problem. its all made up. why does anyone need to ask permission to go anywhere?

there are people that have to wait to do paper work to get a loved one to come over? have to pay fees? its all busy work for govt.. known as - order through chaos. 

why as a people do we bother following ridiculous rules made for you by people in suits you dont know and were chosen for you?

  giving me two choices for president is not freedom of choice. You/I never selected either to run. Someone else with money and power did..

   your vote never actually counted. They choose who wins and who loses..

No one actually thinks for themselves. They wait like trained dogs to see what govt and media tell them to think and who to trust.

  immigration is just another made up rule for govt to make money on and give people govt jobs.

 

calling someone illegal for going over a made up border?

you have no way of proving crime and so called illegal immigration. Its all made up to sway your thoughts and opinions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

I’m happy to listen to most all points of view. I would recommend in the future that you don’t try to claim to know something about someone based a few nondescript words on a message board. Anything else you say might just be ignored or dismissed. 

 

(This response has been approved by my thought controlling, suit wearing overlords)

 

As to your point, do you just want total anarchy?

[88Comrade2000]

Actually, while it will suck for the dreamers and other not legal immigrants; I think  we need those raids/deportations televised.

 

While the hard core GOP/Trump base will cheer; the majority will recoil in horror. 

 

Let them see on their TVs Ice Agents literally breaking up families and deporting people.

 

Hell, I want to see ICE agents come to a military base and arrest and deport soldiers they know that aren't legal. Go into offices, homes, schools, churches, etc...  Televise it.

 

American people and the whole world need to see the Trump America.

 

Yes, it will suck for people being arrested and deported but the Trump government is already doing this and making plans to ramp up.

I guarantee you, all those Dreamers and their families will be gone after by ICE.  Once the DACA deadline passes, they government will pounce on them.  We need to show this America that 46% of the country voted for.

 

I think watching that unfold the TV, time after time; will further turn the tide against the GOP.  People will see that isn't American and will go to polls and throw enough of the GOP out to give Dems control and then the Dems can set their sights on the Trump administration in 2019.  

 

[visionary]

 

[balki1867]

I feel compelled to point out that this guys "small drug problem" amounted to being in possession of over 2 pounds of cocaine when he was arrested.

 

http://news.abs-cbn.com/overseas/04/09/17/us-military-veterans-in-a-new-fight-against-deportation

 

I would definitely look at his situation uniquely given his service record, but it bugs me the way the Tribune article addresses his arrest as the product of a small addiction caused by PTSD.

[thinwhiteduke]

2 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Actually, while it will suck for the dreamers and other not legal immigrants; I think  we need those raids/deportations televised.

 

While the hard core GOP/Trump base will cheer; the majority will recoil in horror. 

 

Let them see on their TVs Ice Agents literally breaking up families and deporting people.

 

Hell, I want to see ICE agents come to a military base and arrest and deport soldiers they know that aren't legal. Go into offices, homes, schools, churches, etc...  Televise it.

 

American people and the whole world need to see the Trump America.

 

Yes, it will suck for people being arrested and deported but the Trump government is already doing this and making plans to ramp up.

I guarantee you, all those Dreamers and their families will be gone after by ICE.  Once the DACA deadline passes, they government will pounce on them.  We need to show this America that 46% of the country voted for.

 

I think watching that unfold the TV, time after time; will further turn the tide against the GOP.  People will see that isn't American and will go to polls and throw enough of the GOP out to give Dems control and then the Dems can set their sights on the Trump administration in 2019.  

 

 

those can be staged to create fear or they can be staged to cause people to protest and then govt stops doing it so you think they solved the problem and your views matter. Either way,its bogus. Right now you are just reading stories. You cant prove or confirm any of them on a first hand level.

they might actually be deporting many people..so what? the truth is the american people will do nothing about it except wait to see if it changes. Protesting and voting does nothing.

 

[visionary]

 

 

 

[thinwhiteduke]

5 hours ago, Hersh said:

 

I’m happy to listen to most all points of view. I would recommend in the future that you don’t try to claim to know something about someone based a few nondescript words on a message board. Anything else you say might just be ignored or dismissed. 

 

(This response has been approved by my thought controlling, suit wearing overlords)

 

As to your point, do you just want total anarchy?

 

Anarchy doesnt mean violence. Anarchy doesnt mean unorganized. I dont have all the answers. I'm not suggesting anarchy. Most of our problems purely come from believing an authority and not speaking up and thinking for yourself/ourselves.. and the idea that money is necessary to live. 

we can have leaders as long as they understand they are not above the people. That doesnt exist now.It hasnt for 100s of years.

we've never been free for one moment. Crime would be almost nill if money didnt exist. Natural law is all thats needed.

I dont have the answers. I just now know how to identify falsehoods and lies.

 

 

 

 

[No Excuses]

Just some casual fascism:

 

 

 

[visionary]

It's disturbing that things have shifted so far from cracking down on illegal immigration, to cracking down on refugees, to picking and choosing what parts of (non-refugee) legal immigration to get rid of.  Trump (and anti-immigration obsessed loons and allies of his) seem to find more and more forms of immigration to go after.  

 

 

Edited February 3, 2018 by visionary

[balki1867]

28 minutes ago, visionary said:

It's disturbing that things have shifted so far from cracking down on illegal immigration, to cracking down on refugees, to picking and choosing what parts of (non-refugee) legal immigration to get rid of.  Trump (and anti-immigration obsessed loons and allies of his) seem to find more and more forms of immigration to go after.

 

I think most immigrants (or in my case, children of immigrants) in the US have been able to effectively read between the lines when it came to Republican immigration talking points. It should be a really telling sign that the immigrant communities that most live by supposed Republican values (family, education, respecting the law, staying of welfare, personal responsibility) are Asian Americans and they overwhelmingly vote against Republicans. (And to be very frank, they live by those values more than the average American overall by almost every measurable standard).

 

None of the typical arguments are to be had here- Asian Americans don't benefit from affirmative action at all, or from any other government programs disproportionately; so you can't argue that they're in it for free stuff. The only remaining arguments are that 1) they're ignorant and get hoodwinked by the Democrats; or 2) they see something about the Republicans that doesn't sit well with them, despite all the rhetoric.

 

A couple interesting reads on the matter:

 

How Muslim-Americans Drifted to the Democratic Party

(really interesting: Muslim-Americans used to be considered a very reliable Republican voting base as recently as 2000)

https://www.voanews.com/a/muslim-americans-drifted-democratic-party/3496782.html

 

How Asian-American Voters Went From Republican To Democratic

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/09/16/439574726/how-asian-american-voters-went-from-republican-to-democratic

Edited February 3, 2018 by balki1867

[88Comrade2000]

3 hours ago, balki1867 said:

 

I think most immigrants (or in my case, children of immigrants) in the US have been able to effectively read between the lines when it came to Republican immigration talking points. It should be a really telling sign that the immigrant communities that most live by supposed Republican values (family, education, respecting the law, staying of welfare, personal responsibility) are Asian Americans and they overwhelmingly vote against Republicans. (And to be very frank, they live by those values more than the average American overall by almost every measurable standard).

 

None of the typical arguments are to be had here- Asian Americans don't benefit from affirmative action at all, or from any other government programs disproportionately; so you can't argue that they're in it for free stuff. The only remaining arguments are that 1) they're ignorant and get hoodwinked by the Democrats; or 2) they see something about the Republicans that doesn't sit well with them, despite all the rhetoric.

 

A couple interesting reads on the matter:

 

How Muslim-Americans Drifted to the Democratic Party

(really interesting: Muslim-Americans used to be considered a very reliable Republican voting base as recently as 2000)

https://www.voanews.com/a/muslim-americans-drifted-democratic-party/3496782.html

 

How Asian-American Voters Went From Republican To Democratic

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/09/16/439574726/how-asian-american-voters-went-from-republican-to-democratic

I remember 2000. Got stuck going to dinner party at my parents friends house and they were discussing voting for Bush, as they couldn't vote for Gore.  Yes, part of it was they felt Gore was more pro-Israel then Bush. 

 

I think by 2004 that changed completely.