No Excuses Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 And because this deal is reasonable, looks like the extremist wing of the GOP is already slamming it down. Apparently there are people more nutty than Stephen Miller in this debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 11 minutes ago, No Excuses said: —Cut family-based green cards except spouses and minor children This is not unreasonable. This part is unreasonable to me. The age of the children shouldn't matter. Dems need to get that fixed. 1 minute ago, No Excuses said: And because this deal is reasonable, looks like the extremist wing of the GOP is already slamming it down I got the alert and was very skeptical. By next week Trump's not going to claim this. "I was out of the country. I don't know who produced that document. Mexico is still paying for the wall." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 20 minutes ago, No Excuses said: https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/956660935976017921 White House immigration proposal: — 10-12 yr path to citizenship for 1.8 million DACA recipients + eligibles —$25 billion for border/wall system —Cut family-based green cards except spouses and minor children —End diversity lottery and reallocate visas to clear backlog This is not unreasonable. The wall money is totally a waste but whatever. Trump can have his dumb vanity project and Dems should hammer him for lying to the public about Mexico paying for it. It will make for great campaign ads. 12.5B for the wall and 12.5B for better training/pay and expanded hiring for border agents and we got a deal. Get it done, you bloated orange doofus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said: This part is unreasonable to me. The age of the children shouldn't matter. Dems need to get that fixed. Agreed, but if it's a concession you have to make, you do that now. A rule like that can be changed down the line. Codifying protections for DREAMERs is permanent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, No Excuses said: Agreed, but if it's a concession you have to make, you do that now. A rule like that can be changed down the line. Codifying protections for DREAMERs is permanent. I'm going to wait to see more. Anything that Steven Miller and Tom Cotton are promoting regarding immigration is going to get the side eye from me. Edited January 26, 2018 by Cooked Crack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 30 minutes ago, No Excuses said: And because this deal is reasonable, looks like the extremist wing of the GOP is already slamming it down. Apparently there are people more nutty than Stephen Miller in this debate. What is reasonable about a 50% cut in legal immigration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Just now, luckydevil said: What is reasonable about a 50% cut in legal immigration? is it a 50% cut if you include the 1.8M dreamers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 9 minutes ago, luckydevil said: What is reasonable about a 50% cut in legal immigration? Reasonable is relative in this conversation. If the return is protection for Dreamers, you take that and deal with legal immigration later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 So surprised by this... this actualy appears to be negotiations... I am shocked!!! Of course both sides lowball their initial give/take... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, twa said: is it a 50% cut if you include the 1.8M dreamers? I believe something around a million people legally immigrate to this country every year. Cutting that number in half is devastating. Why would you kneecap one of America's advantages? Why would you propose that in a country with an increasing aging population? It exposes the lie that this debate is about illegal immigration for conservatives/republicans. It's not, it's an anti immigration proposal, straight up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Jerry Falwell Jr is busy labeling Dreamers as barbarians at the moment. The next three weeks are going to be a total **** show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Just now, luckydevil said: I believe something around a million people legally immigrate to this country every year. Cutting that number in half is devastating. Why would you kneecap one of America's advantages? Why would you propose that in a country with an increasing aging population? It exposes the lie that this debate is about illegal immigration for conservatives/republicans. It's not, it's an anti immigration proposal, straight up. Legalizing Dreamers IS making them part of legal immigration.....they ain't legal right now. if you have a problem with giving them priority I would take it up with the budget hostage takers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 4 minutes ago, No Excuses said: Reasonable is relative in this conversation. If the return is protection for Dreamers, you take that and deal with legal immigration later. Reasonable is giving him funding for the wall and border security, this is not reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 I can't believe we're going to waste 25 billion dollars. I care about border security, I just have zero faith our current gov't will do anything other than waste that money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, luckydevil said: Reasonable is giving him funding for the wall and border security, this is not reasonable. The GOP is ultimately in control of this debate. The pro-immigration side doesn't really have that much leverage. Any deal on legal protections for Dreamers will come at the cost of legal immigration. It sucks, and I agree it is not reasonable on its own. I just don't want to see a situation in which millions of undocumented Americans, who don't know any country but this, are at risk of deportation. The fact that the government already has their info collected through DACA is just scary when we see how aggressive ICE has been going after non-criminal undocumented people in the US under Trump. I absolutely think ICE under guidance from the Trump administration will go after DACA recipients if they aren't protected past March. Edited January 26, 2018 by No Excuses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, tshile said: I can't believe we're going to waste 25 billion dollars. I care about border security, I just have zero faith our current gov't will do anything other than waste that money. Thing is we already have walls in the places they are an efficient means of securing the border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Just now, tshile said: I can't believe we're going to waste 25 billion dollars. I care about border security, I just have zero faith our current gov't will do anything other than waste that money. I'd prefer spending it prosecuting those govt officials that shield them and companies that hire them (the undocumented....see I can be PC) Address the problems and upping legal immigration or work visas is negotiable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 1 minute ago, skinsfan_1215 said: Thing is we already have walls in the places they are an efficient means of securing the border. It's not the idea of a wall I oppose. It's this administration (and this congress) designing, implemented, and bidding out the work that I have no faith in. I have issues with "a wall" solution, mainly that it doesn't seem to be accompanied by any other ideas, but I'm not totally opposed to it. 2 minutes ago, twa said: I'd prefer spending it prosecuting those govt officials that shield them and companies that hire them (the undocumented....see I can be PC) Address the problems and upping legal immigration or work visas is negotiable. The savings could be used to get the dreamers up and running and more productive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, twa said: (the undocumented....see I can be PC) We are calling them crimigrants now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 21 minutes ago, No Excuses said: The GOP is ultimately in control of this debate. Here is the thing, republicans have felt out lied and have argued from bad faith from the get go.The original deal was dreamers for wall. Now it is dreamers for wall, end of chain migration, lowest level of legal immigration since the 1920's racial quoto laws. God knows what it will be tomorrow. This a game that democrats should not play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 4 minutes ago, luckydevil said: This a game that democrats should not play. How would you suggest they go about not playing the game? Keep the shutdown going until they are in office? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Just now, luckydevil said: Here is the thing, republicans have felt out lied and have argued from bad faith from the get go.The original deal was dreamers for wall. Now it is dreamers for wall, end of chain migration, lowest level of legal immigration since the 1920's racial quoto laws. God knows what it will be tomorrow. This a game that democrats should not play. Someone turned down that deal though, new deal includes more than 1/2 M more Dreamers. It can indeed change tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 I can 100% get behind the dreamers. The reality is no one really wants to kick them out. The problem is how to we prevent new dreamers 10 years from now? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, sacase said: I can 100% get behind the dreamers. The reality is no one really wants to kick them out. The problem is how to we prevent new dreamers 10 years from now? You really can't without stopping illegal immigration. But my question is - if there is a legit path to citizenship why would you want to? Make them citizians and add to our countries wealth. (Extremly simplistic view, I know sorry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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