The immigration thread: American Melting Pot or Get off my Lawn

[twa]

Why did he stay here 40 yrs and not naturalize?

[redskins59]

Well, my dad has been here 20 years, and he hasn't naturalized either.  He is renewing his green card right now.   Some countries do not allow dual citizenship, and the thing is, if you lose your citizenship, you risk losing your assets as well.  Some counties put a limit on the amount of money you can take to a foreign country, unless it is for educational purposes.

Green card is not a whole lot different in terms of benefits, etc.  Sure, you cannot apply for jobs that require citizenship.

As far as merit-bases immigration policy that Trump is proposing, I can already see college educated Whites complaining about it.  Would it not be like H1b on steroids?  I already see liberal Whites complaining re: H1b, if you go to NY comments section pertaining to this. To top it off, they probavly won't get rid of H1b either.  So ultimately,  merit-based immigration will not help everybody.

[balki1867]

49 minutes ago, twa said:

Why did he stay here 40 yrs and not naturalize?

 

It's actually pretty common with immigrant communities that even after getting greencards, one parent will naturalize whereas the other parent won't.  This is to hedge their bets in case something unthinkable happens in this country. (I'm dead serious BTW).

 

Even with my parents, they got their greencards in the 70s- my dad naturalized as soon as he could (around 1980) whereas my mom waited until the mid-90s.

 

Granted, I don't know this dude, so its pure conjecture why he did/didnt choose to naturalize.

[twa]

But not doing so exposes you to risk of deportation.

[Burgold]

6 minutes ago, twa said:

But not doing so exposes you to risk of deportation.

It's actually a very hard decision to give up your country even when for the adopted country you love... even if you would never go back and kinda hate the old one. I've known many people like that who love America, but just don't want to cut that last tie to the land of their birth.

[twa]

Life is full of hard choices in my experience, and you live with the results.

[balki1867]

35 minutes ago, twa said:

Life is full of hard choices in my experience, and you live with the results.

 

I'm a Redskins fan. I already know this.

[Zguy28]

1 hour ago, Burgold said:

It's actually a very hard decision to give up your country even when for the adopted country you love... even if you would never go back and kinda hate the old one. I've known many people like that who love America, but just don't want to cut that last tie to the land of their birth.

That sounds more like they love something about America, something they get. And that plays right into the GOP narrative Burgold. "Love it or leave it"

[Burgold]

1 minute ago, Zguy28 said:

That sounds more like they love something about America, something they get. And that plays right into the GOP narrative Burgold. "Love it or leave it"

Maybe and I can see that, but I can also understand someone having twin loves. I tend to be loyal and stubborn (which is why I remain a Redskins fan despite two decades of mostly pain), but I can understand the notion of loving the home town and the city you moved to as an adult.

 

From that perspective, how many people do you know when asked on vacation, "Where are you from?" answer the place they grew up in versus the place they live now or have lived for 10, 20 years.

[TheGreatBuzz]

5 hours ago, Burgold said:

I'm not sure I get all this hate for "chain migration," but maybe that's because of how my family got in.

 

Shortly after WWII, my great aunt entered the country and became a citizen. She applied a few years later to try to get my Grandmother and uncle into the country. My Mom had already graduated from one of the top Masters programs in her country so she was ineligible to come with them. I think it might have had to do more with her age than the degree, but the degree did make her valuable.

 

At any rate, once my grandmother got in, according to family stories, she camped on the door every day of the deciding government agency until they got so sick of seeing her that they gave in. When Mom first arrived her first meeting was with the FBI who grilled her trying to figure out why Poland would allow something with a Math degree from that level of university get away.

 

Eventually, my uncle grew up and became one of the top economists in California (okay, that might be a dubious thing) and Mom became a top NIH scientist who made about twelve world changing discoveries ranging from the relationship between our eyes and UV radiation to cataracts, diabetes and eye disease, etc.

 

I know that's only one story, but there are so many others. "Chain immigration" is not a negative. It's a positive.

I'm sure we can also fine negative stories to. Even as inspirational as your family story is. That's why I'm for more of a merit-based type system. Though I also see the benefit of families together. Maybe some type of point based system where you get points for having family here. For example 10 points for having a degree and 10 points for having family here and 10 points for something else. Maybe some kind of system like that that takes family into consideration but isn't the deciding factor?

[twa]

2 hours ago, Burgold said:

 

 

From that perspective, how many people do you know when asked on vacation, "Where are you from?" answer the place they grew up in versus the place they live now or have lived for 10, 20 years.

 

I can see 10 maybe 20, 40 is well over my line.

 

Zguy nailed it.

 

[balki1867]

I've lived in the midwest for my entire adult life (mostly Illinois). I know people who refuse to register their cars or get an Illinois driver's license because it's some form of identity for them to have plates from their home state or a point of pride when a bartender checking ID asked them about where they grew up.

 

[twa]

People are strange 

 

The Hill‏Verified account @thehill 18m18 minutes ago

More

Supreme Court to expedite decision on Trump ending DACA http://hill.cm/DF8r37c 

[balki1867]

That honestly sounds like a optimal scenario for both parties (assuming the SC upholds DACA). Democrats get something they want and moderate Republicans don't have to vote on something that could later be used to hang them.

 

If DACA isn't upheld then we end up where we were.

[Zguy28]

13 minutes ago, balki1867 said:

I've lived in the midwest for my entire adult life (mostly Illinois). I know people who refuse to register their cars or get an Illinois driver's license because it's some form of identity for them to have plates from their home state or a point of pride when a bartender checking ID asked them about where they grew up.

 

This would fit if Mexico, Guatemala, or wherever else were part of the USA. Maybe they should be? I wonder what the pros and cons of Mexico becoming a state would be? Not trying to insult anybody from those countries by the way.

[Burgold]

22 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I'm sure we can also fine negative stories to. Even as inspirational as your family story is. That's why I'm for more of a merit-based type system. Though I also see the benefit of families together. Maybe some type of point based system where you get points for having family here. 

On the surface, I like a merit based system, but I always think that a merit based system probably misses out on too much potential. 

 

Easy example, when I was in elementary school I was usually one of shortest guys in my class. One day we got a student from Vietnam who was much shorter than me. Maybe even a full foot. Six months later, he grew a foot and a half becoming one of our tallest. Turns out his size was based on crappy nutrition, being starving, and insane poverty. 

 

Likewise, he was a total dunce academically when he first arrived. However, he learned like he grew and really gobbled up math and science. By the end of the year, he went from remedial to honors. 

 

This is kid could never have entered the country on a merit based system because his merits were completely hidden. 

[Zguy28]

1 minute ago, Burgold said:

On the surface, I like a merit based system, but I always think that a merit based system probably misses out on too much potential. 

 

Easy example, when I was in elementary school I was usually one of shortest guys in my class. One day we got a student from Vietnam who was much shorter than me. Maybe even a full foot. Six months later, he grew a foot and a half becoming one of our tallest. Turns out his size was based on crappy nutrition, being starving, and insane poverty. 

 

Likewise, he was a total dunce academically when he first arrived. However, he learned like he grew and really gobbled up math and science. By the end of the year, he went from remedial to honors. 

 

This is kid could never have entered the country on a merit based system because his merits were completely hidden. 

No system will be perfect. All will have outliers, you would need some sort of appeal system with like a one time 6 month deferral.

[Burgold]

2 minutes ago, Zguy28 said:

No system will be perfect. All will have outliers, you would need some sort of appeal system with like a one time 6 month deferral.

I could dig that or a Statue of Liberty exception for those under the heel of dictators or escaping extreme situations. 

[balki1867]

8 minutes ago, Zguy28 said:

This would fit if Mexico, Guatemala, or wherever else were part of the USA. Maybe they should be? I wonder what the pros and cons of Mexico becoming a state would be? Not trying to insult anybody from those countries by the way.

 

My comment was in regards to Burgold and TWA's comments about peoples' allegiances to where they grew up.  I was just offering an example of that.

[twa]

24 minutes ago, balki1867 said:

That honestly sounds like a optimal scenario for both parties (assuming the SC upholds DACA). Democrats get something they want and moderate Republicans don't have to vote on something that could later be used to hang them.

 

If DACA isn't upheld then we end up where we were.

 

Some clarity from SCOTUS would help, but after their DAPA ruling I wouldn't count on it being upheld.

[balki1867]

12 minutes ago, twa said:

 

Some clarity from SCOTUS would help, but after their DAPA ruling I wouldn't count on it being upheld.

 

I don't expect it to be upheld either- I'm just saying it would be an easy way to sidestep the issue from a political standpoint.

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

[No Excuses]

https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/956660935976017921

 

 

White House immigration proposal:

— 10-12 yr path to citizenship for 1.8 million DACA recipients + eligibles

—$25 billion for border/wall system

—Cut family-based green cards except spouses and minor children

—End diversity lottery and reallocate visas to clear backlog

 

 

This is not unreasonable. 

 

The wall money is totally a waste but whatever. Trump can have his dumb vanity project and Dems should hammer him for lying to the public about Mexico paying for it. It will make for great campaign ads.