The immigration thread: American Melting Pot or Get off my Lawn

[tshile]

i just ask for the license and proof of insurance.

 

[redskins59]

13 minutes ago, tshile said:

i just ask for the license and proof of insurance.

 

  Recently, I had to fix my roof.  The main guy who we talked to was a White dude--pretty clearly an American.  Then the people who actually came to fix the house (there must have been 5 people there) were Latinos who barely spoke any English. Am I supposed to ask for their license?  If I recall, I already signed the contract before those guys came to fix my house.  

The contractor we hired was recommended to us by our insurance.  Good reviews online.  4+ stars.  

 

[twa]

3 minutes ago, redskins59 said:

  Recently, I had to fix my roof.  The main guy who we talked to was a White dude--pretty clearly an American.  Then the people who actually came to fix the house (there must have been 5 people there) were Latinos who barely spoke any English. Am I supposed to ask for their license?  If I recall, I already signed the contract before those guys came to fix my house.  

The contractor we hired was recommended to us by our insurance.  Good reviews online.  4+ stars.  

 

 

As a employer they are required to get documentation under threat of fines,removing that burden from you.

 

As to illegal labor being cheaper....it certainly can be since they can avoid taxes,fees,permits,insurance requirements and a host of other expenses legal employers must pay. 

[tshile]

13 minutes ago, redskins59 said:

  Recently, I had to fix my roof.  The main guy who we talked to was a White dude--pretty clearly an American.  Then the people who actually came to fix the house (there must have been 5 people there) were Latinos who barely spoke any English. Am I supposed to ask for their license?  If I recall, I already signed the contract before those guys came to fix my house.  

The contractor we hired was recommended to us by our insurance.  Good reviews online.  4+ stars.  

 

i would imagine the person you did the contract with is the one with the contractors license and insurance. 

 

so no, i don't know why you'd ask his underlings.

 

[Riggo-toni]

[TheGreatBuzz]

4 hours ago, redskins59 said:

 

I know this for a fact.  My mom is sponsoring her brother for a green card.  The process has gone for 10 whopping years.  If this is what Trump means by chain migration, the process is not very easy at all. 

I have a feeling Trump (or his supporters) doesn't even know what chain migration means.

 

My response would be they are too expensive.  

And anyways, unless the plan is to discriminate, how do you know who is legal or illegal?  Am I supposed to ask for citizenship proof if a person looks brown or has an accent?

I see @tshile already brought it up.  But no way do I let anyone come work on my house without seeing their license and proof of insurance. Try calling your homeowners insurance and tell them that you have people work at your house and don't check to see if they are bonded. Let me know what they say.

[redskins59]

27 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I see @tshile already brought it up.  But no way do I let anyone come work on my house without seeing their license and proof of insurance. Try calling your homeowners insurance and tell them that you have people work at your house and don't check to see if they are bonded. Let me know what they say.

 

 A lot of illegal immigrants are working for contractors who will have all the required  proofs.  The  boss will be a White dude, whereas the ones who will do the work appear to be the types who don't  speak English.  My roofer was recommended to me by my home insurance company.  The boss was White, and he hired people who were more than likely illegal.    I also had to replace my Aluminum siding.  So, two different contractors were used, as the roofer would not do the siding.    Again, the  boss was a white guy, and the people working under him were Latinos.  And actually, one of the workers only recently  flew from some country in South America.  

They did an efficient job though.  They finished the work in 4 or 5 hours.  I gave them a good review on Angie's list, as they said they would give me a discount.  

Also, does anybody ask for proof when it comes to handyman types? I know I don't. 

Edited January 15, 2018 by redskins59

[TheGreatBuzz]

The contractor is liable if someone gets hurt or something and he has illegals.  I was talking about the person "you" directly hire.  And yes, I check for handyman.  And my yard guy.  And anyone else who is doing any work at my house.  

[redskins59]

9 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

The contractor is liable if someone gets hurt or something and he has illegals.  I was talking about the person "you" directly hire.  And yes, I check for handyman.  And my yard guy.  And anyone else who is doing any work at my house.  

 

I highly doubt most people would check for proof from a  handyman.  Those are essentially small jobs.  It's not going to change your house drastically.

And for big-time jobs, it will be the big-name contractors you will hire.  What you will no doubt notice is that the people who will do your work will be immigrant types.  

Edited January 15, 2018 by redskins59

[TheGreatBuzz]

Maybe we should make a poll.  I wonder how many other people check paperwork for handyman.

[bearrock]

49 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Maybe we should make a poll.  I wonder how many other people check paperwork for handyman.

What do you ask for?  Green card?  Work permit?  Social security card?  

 

Given the ease of fraud in this area, I think the only sure way would be to enroll in e verify and cross check that with a verifiable photo ID.  Only problem is the verifiable photo id part.  Can you go to the dmv and ask to verify the authenticity of a driver's license?

 

I would think most people wouldn't go through that extent of trouble for temp work (both the homeowner and the handyperson).  Business license, insurance, and a couple of references are probably it.

[visionary]

 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2018 by visionary

[bearrock]

I wish we had a path to offer federal level referendums for legislations.  It seems to me that there are lot of possible common sense solutions to the immigration issues while morons in Washington are sitting on their behinds.  While they sit in paralysis, the human cost continue to mount.

[TheGreatBuzz]

10 minutes ago, bearrock said:

What do you ask for?  Green card?  Work permit?  Social security card?  

 

Given the ease of fraud in this area, I think the only sure way would be to enroll in e verify and cross check that with a verifiable photo ID.  Only problem is the verifiable photo id part.  Can you go to the dmv and ask to verify the authenticity of a driver's license?

 

I would think most people wouldn't go through that extent of trouble for temp work (both the homeowner and the handyperson).  Business license, insurance, and a couple of references are probably it.

I ask for proof they are licensed, insured, and bonded.  You can't get those if you aren't legal.  Though I don't really care their immigration status.  I just want to be covered if they get hurt or something.

[bearrock]

5 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I ask for proof they are licensed, insured, and bonded.  You can't get those if you aren't legal.  Though I don't really care their immigration status.  I just want to be covered if they get hurt or something.

Yeah, that's just good sense and not an immigration issue.  But you absolutely can get license, insurance, and bond as an illegal immigrant.  Legally in many states and with minor effort in states where it might be more difficult (I'm not aware of any state that ties it to immigration, but rather ssn.  Most states I believe use ITIN.  California explicitly opens the door regardless of immigration status).

Edited January 15, 2018 by bearrock

[TheGreatBuzz]

I could be wrong but in Florida, I don't believe you can get those if you here illegally.

[bearrock]

16 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I could be wrong but in Florida, I don't believe you can get those if you here illegally.

Could very well be the case.  I only know the states I know and they are a distinct numerical minority.

 

Edit:  Just out of curiosity, I looked at the licensing board site and looked up requirements for a certified plumber.  It requires a credit history and fingerprint check, but no direct check on immigration status.  Illegal immigrants can build credit history using previously issued SSN or use ITIN.  I'm not sure whether the board requests the FBI background check with immigration status (which wouldn't catch those who didn't go through fingerprinting at entry anyway)

 

https://www.myfloridalicense.com/CheckListDetail.asp?SID=&xactCode=1030&clientCode=0604&XACT_DEFN_ID=3049

Edited January 16, 2018 by bearrock

[tshile]

4 hours ago, redskins59 said:

 A lot of illegal immigrants are working for contractors who will have all the required  proofs.  The  boss will be a White dude, whereas the ones who will do the work appear to be the types who don't  speak English.

The bosses around here are latino and speak both fluently. So we're all their workers.

 

Their struggles were in different ways. Basically the main guy got all the money. The other dudes would show up with their wives to finish the work.

 

Good people. Not the hardest working immigrants I've seen (and I've seen some) but they worked hard enough and were deserving of their respect (and showed a lot themselves).

 

I made sure to get the individual crew leaders' names. He deserves his money but I'd rather it go to the guys.

 

The crew leader was on site multiple days working. Pain brush in hand and all. 

 

I imagine you're right about most. Just sharing my story.

[twa]

Next gen tshile

Sounds familiar.

[Larry]

Yeah, part of me does sympathize with these stories we hear about every so often. I could see myself doing the same thing. (And probably not as well). 

 

BUT, part of me also points out that the "tragedy" here is that a career criminal (I love the irony of using that phrase for these people) who has built an entire life around the assumption that he can continue breaking the law forever, and he was wrong. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

So at what point was the career criminal who was brought to this country when he was 10 supposed to leave his family and voluntary self deport to Mexico where he has nothing and knows nobody?

[Larry]

3 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

So at what point was the career criminal who was brought to this country when he was 10 supposed to leave his family and voluntary self deport to Mexico where he has nothing and knows nobody?

 

Every single day he was illegally in this country.  

 

You want to claim that he's not responsible, when he's a juvenile?  I could see that.  He hasn't been a juvenile since when?  

 

Like I said, yeah, I can certainly see why it's an option that sucks.  But the fact that following the law sucks does not grant permission to spend the rest of your life, not only immune from punishment, but literally immune from anybody preventing you from violating the law again, tomorrow.  

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

3 minutes ago, Larry said:

Every single day he was illegally in this country.  

 

You want to claim that he's not responsible, when he's a juvenile?  I could see that.  He hasn't been a juvenile since when?  

 

Like I said, yeah, I can certainly see why it's an option that sucks.  But the fact that following the law sucks does not grant permission to spend the rest of your life, not only immune from punishment, but literally immune from anybody preventing you from violating the law again, tomorrow.  

Yes, it does suck and it's through no fault of his own that he was brought here illegally. There's not one of us who would have done it any differently if we were placed in the same circumstances. If the guy hasn't committed any other crimes aside from being brought here illegally when he was little and not voluntarily leaving everything and everyone he knows to go to a worse situation, I really see no point in ripping their family apart. Seems pretty damn cruel to me.

[SkinsHokieFan]

15 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I ask for proof they are licensed, insured, and bonded.  You can't get those if you aren't legal.  Though I don't really care their immigration status.  I just want to be covered if they get hurt or something.

 

I still run a home/commercial improvement company (plug here for www.boldpainters.com) am licenced bonded and insured but have never been asked about my legal or citizenship status in 15 years of doing this. 

[Larry]

3 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Yes, it does suck and it's through no fault of his own that he was brought here illegally. There's not one of us who would have done it any differently if we were placed in the same circumstances. If the guy hasn't committed any other crimes aside from being brought here illegally when he was little and not voluntarily leaving everything and everyone he knows to go to a worse situation, I really see no point in ripping their family apart. Seems pretty damn cruel to me.

 

Yep. The only crime he has committed is, well,

 

1). being in the country illegally. 

2). Working in the country illegally. 

3). I strongly suspect that he's been violating at least one tax law, when it comes to his taxes. (Which one will depend on which scam he uses, on his taxes). 

4). Wonder what he had to do, to get a driver's license. I had to show proof of citizenship, (passport, in my case), to renew mine. But different states might have different rules. 

(Wonder if he HIRES any illegals?)

 

And he has every intention of violating them again, tomorrow. And profiting from them. 

 

(Just as an aside, I remember being told that our tax law says that the tax on any illegal activity is 100%.)

 

Now, I can certainly see the argument that it is not in the national interest to deport this person. (At the very least, that there's got to be bunches of people who ought to be higher on the priority list). 

 

Just pointing out that no, that doesn't ENTITLE him to go ahead and plan his life around the assumption that he will always be allowed to keep violating the law. 

 

If you want to say that this case shows that the law is stupid, then I think you've got a good argument.