The immigration thread: American Melting Pot or Get off my Lawn

[tshile]

15 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I ask for proof they are licensed, insured, and bonded.  You can't get those if you aren't legal.  Though I don't really care their immigration status.  I just want to be covered if they get hurt or something.

 

Yup...

 

Paying slightly extra is better than being sued if something happens, or having a serious issue you're on the hook for.

 

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

2 hours ago, SkinsHokieFan said:

 

I still run a home/commercial improvement company (plug here for www.boldpainters.com) am licenced bonded and insured but have never been asked about my legal or citizenship status in 15 years of doing this. 

Can an illegal immigrant get licenced, binded, and insured?

[twa]

6 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Can an illegal immigrant get licenced, binded, and insured?

 

yes in many states.

it is however illegal for them to hire illegals.....if that makes any sense.

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2018 by visionary

[Fergasun]

@Larry,

Looking through your posts.  The only reason immigrants are career criminals is because the political right-wing refuses to maturely deal with this issue via Comprehensive Immigration Reform. 

 

Immigrants have been a successful political wedge issue for years.  This is a garbage way to deal with people that most of America has accepted and embraced.  The far-right doesn't want "amnesty", and quite frankly legalizing dreamers should be a no brainer.

 

You can't complain about a problem you let "fester" for years and years due to neglect.  

[TheGreatBuzz]

Yup.  Make sure you only blame the GOP because the Left has never had full control......oh wait.

 

Truth is no one wants to deal with immigration. 

[Fergasun]

@TheGreatBuzz

Americans have the same paradigm of our political leaders.  It's impossible for illegals to be law abiding, but so long as they are not.criminal and "law abiding" we accept them.

 

Look at how stupid hard it is to legalize less than 1 million of them. 

 

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

21 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

@TheGreatBuzz

Americans have the same paradigm of our political leaders.  It's impossible for illegals to be law abiding, but so long as they are not.criminal and "law abiding" we accept them.

 

Look at how stupid hard it is to legalize less than 1 million of them. 

 

 

Not arguing that.  I was simply responding to your statement that:

 

46 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

the political right-wing refuses to maturely deal with this issue via Comprehensive Immigration Reform

I was simply pointing out that the Left didn't deal with it when they had the numbers either.  This is why so often, when people want to complain about one political party, I say "politicians" instead of the party.  Seems to me like both sides like to get on a soap box about **** they want to do but don't do it when they have the opportunity.  I actually think sometimes they prefer to not have a majority.  If they don't, it makes it a lot easier to complain.  When they have the majority, we expect them to actually.......do stuff.  And they don't.  And this applies to both sides.  Now cue someone coming in to say why the GOP is worse or somehow everything is their fault anyways.

[Fresh8686]

1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Not arguing that.  I was simply responding to your statement that:

 

I was simply pointing out that the Left didn't deal with it when they had the numbers either.  This is why so often, when people want to complain about one political party, I say "politicians" instead of the party.  Seems to me like both sides like to get on a soap box about **** they want to do but don't do it when they have the opportunity.  I actually think sometimes they prefer to not have a majority.  If they don't, it makes it a lot easier to complain.  When they have the majority, we expect them to actually.......do stuff.  And they don't.  And this applies to both sides.  Now cue someone coming in to say why the GOP is worse or somehow everything is their fault anyways.

 

How about we all agree to the obvious, but nuanced truth that the GOP is indeed worse, But it is not totally their fault. 

 

And your point about the left not dealing with it has a small bit of truth, but on the whole doesn't carry enough water. Obama spent most of his political capital on the ACA, but unlike the GOP he did try to many times to pass immigration reform. 

 

Pressure from his base made sure of that, just like pressure from Trumps racist ass base is fueling the opposition. 

 

"Time and again, the Obama administration has stepped forward with a new initiative on immigration. Time and again, those efforts have encountered difficulty, and time and again the White House has thrown up its hands, said it has done all it can, and tried to move on. And each time, immigration advocates have reacted furiously, successfully pressuring the administration to take back up the banner.

That recurring pattern has led to major shifts in immigration policy over the last three years. When the DREAM Act died in Congress, President Obama instituted a policy—Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, or DACA—that achieved many of the same goals. When immigration reform foundered in Congress, Obama unveiled an executive action that expanded DACA. (Actually, he promised to do so before the 2014 midterm elections, then flinched, then issued the rule after the election.)"

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/394388/

 

Edited January 21, 2018 by Fresh8686

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 hour ago, Fresh8686 said:

How about we all agree to the obvious, but nuanced truth that the GOP is indeed worse, But it is not totally their fault.

I agree.  Never said otherwise.  But that doesn't make it fair or right to claim that our immigration woes are all the fault of the GOP.  If anything, I would say the current woes are more the fault of the Left.  At least the GOP doesn't even pretend to care about illegals unless it is deporting them.  The Left says they care but then doesn't accomplish anything even when they had a super-majority*

 

 

1 hour ago, Fresh8686 said:

And your point about the left not dealing with it has a small bit of truth, but on the whole doesn't carry enough water. Obama spent most of his political capital on the ACA, but unlike the GOP he did try to many times to pass immigration reform. 

If anything, I would say the opposite.  Nothing I have said is un-true.  And you are more than welcome to share parts you think pertain (as you have already done).  Now, I am talking about the Left, not just Obama.  If we are going to refer to "the GOP" when it is really about Trump (and I agree it is appropriate) then "the Left" should be used regarding Obama and the rest of the Dems.   Now you can say the Left spent their capital on ACA but that doesn't change the fact that they COULD have done immigration reform but didn't.  Especially with their super-majority*.  And since we like to act like each party is one unified voice whenever they have a majority, they should have been able to do pretty much whatever they wanted during that timeframe. 

 

*I know it is up for debate if they ever did.  Based off memory, in 2012-ish they had 60 but one senator was incapacitated or something so they really only had 59.  But you can't convince me they couldn't get 1 GOP (pick the weakest off the herd and offer to build a federal building in his state or something) to cross over.  Either way, they still have more of a majority than the GOP have right now. 

 

Now a good case can be made regarding the "super majority" for either side of the argument.  But like I said, they had more of a majority than the GOP has now.  You can argue that even though they had the numbers, it is still hard to get things done because it isn't just 60 (or 59) robots.  But then the same is true for the GOP now.  So if you (the proverbial you) want to harp on the GOP for not accomplishing things when they have the majority, then you have to accept the failures of the Left when they had the majority.  Or you can deny them but then the GOP should get the same consideration.  What's good for the goose.........

[visionary]

 

[Burgold]

If Trump and the GOP care so much about immigration and our borders... what the hell ever happened to extreme vetting. It's been a year. Where is it?

[visionary]

4 minutes ago, Burgold said:

If Trump and the GOP care so much about immigration and our borders... what the hell ever happened to extreme vetting. It's been a year. Where is it?

I think they did put that in place.  I remember hearing that a lot of visas were being rejected now, but that might be just from lowering numbers and deciding to reject as many as possible instead of just increasing the difficulty.

[Burgold]

Just now, visionary said:

I think they did put that in place.  I remember hearing that a lot of visas were being rejected now, but that might be just from lowering numbers and deciding to reject as many as possible instead of just increasing the difficulty.

You may be right, but I think I would remember if they announced new rules were put in place. I also imagine they would have stirred huge controversy and probably lawsuits which is why I don't think Trump's "extreme vetting" rules were ever written or acted upon.

 

I might be wrong though.

[Fergasun]

@TheGreatBuzz

DACA is Obama's baby.... if Obama didn't do DACA - which Trump rescinded we wouldn't have this "debate". 

 

To some extent, you are correct -- I think that the Democrats at one point could've done a CIR program, but most likely they wouldn't have thrown any olive branches to the GOP. 

 

It's just kind've stupid, we all know what CIR looks like based on the Senate Bill that didn't pass with Bush in office - enforcement (e-verify), end to family-based chain migration (hopefully phased out over some period of time), stricter rules on benefits for illegal immigrants (think that California proposition - 93?), and amnesty.  We know not everyone will like that, that some people will like some parts and hate others, but that's the legislative compromise necessary to move the country forward. 

 

 

[Burgold]

Just now, Fergasun said:

@TheGreatBuzz

DACA is Obama's baby.... if Obama didn't do DACA - which Trump rescinded we wouldn't have this "debate". 

 

To some extent, you are correct -- I think that the Democrats at one point could've done a CIR program, but most likely they wouldn't have thrown any olive branches to the GOP. 

 

It's just kind've stupid, we all know what CIR looks like based on the Senate Bill that didn't pass with Bush in office - enforcement (e-verify), end to family-based chain migration (hopefully phased out over some period of time), stricter rules on benefits for illegal immigrants (think that California proposition - 93?), and amnesty.  We know not everyone will like that, that some people will like some parts and hate others, but that's the legislative compromise necessary to move the country forward. 

 

 

It's also worth noting that the Democrats already voted through four continuing resolutions since Trump took office without ever getting anything for them other than vague promises that some issue or other will be talked about in the future.

 

Maybe it's time we stop kicking cans down the road and actually roll up our sleeves and do the hard stuff.

[TheGreatBuzz]

26 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

legislative compromise

Doesn't exist anymore.

 

1 hour ago, visionary said:

 

Can't be true.  Looks white and we all know Trump just wants to deport brown people.  Wait.......is he Jewish?  That could explain it.

[killerbee99]

Yeah, let's not take the word of the moron calling stuff like Muslim bans.... Keep kissing the ass of your emperor with no clothes..... We know you voted for his dumb ass

[visionary]

10 minutes ago, killerbee99 said:

Keep kissing the ass of your emperor with no clothes..... We know you voted for his dumb ass

This seems unfair and probably wrong.

Edited January 21, 2018 by visionary

[killerbee99]

Meh, probably right... Just sick of people defending the imbecile in the white house

[visionary]

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

26 minutes ago, killerbee99 said:

Meh, probably right... Just sick of people defending the imbecile in the white house

So if you know it is wrong, you could always go back and edit.  Just a thought.  And where was the defense of the imbecile in the White House?

[Bozo the kKklown]

Thread on the evil the House GOP want to on the Dreamers

 

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/955068686968283138.html

 

Its written in order of tweets and like an article, so it is easier to see.

 

also

 

[Burgold]

I'm not sure I get all this hate for "chain migration," but maybe that's because of how my family got in.

 

Shortly after WWII, my great aunt entered the country and became a citizen. She applied a few years later to try to get my Grandmother and uncle into the country. My Mom had already graduated from one of the top Masters programs in her country so she was ineligible to come with them. I think it might have had to do more with her age than the degree, but the degree did make her valuable.

 

At any rate, once my grandmother got in, according to family stories, she camped on the door every day of the deciding government agency until they got so sick of seeing her that they gave in. When Mom first arrived her first meeting was with the FBI who grilled her trying to figure out why Poland would allow something with a Math degree from that level of university get away.

 

Eventually, my uncle grew up and became one of the top economists in California (okay, that might be a dubious thing) and Mom became a top NIH scientist who made about twelve world changing discoveries ranging from the relationship between our eyes and UV radiation to cataracts, diabetes and eye disease, etc.

 

I know that's only one story, but there are so many others. "Chain immigration" is not a negative. It's a positive.

[killerbee99]

Nah, people that have gotten in and made it now want to shut the door on others......Karma will be a **** for all these people...willing to bet that Michigan doctor being deported was probably a republican and voted for Trump...since he was gonna build that wall....and boom, you get arrested because you got a record with a green card too...