2015 FA Thread - OP Updated - Signings: Paea, Knighton, Culliver, Johnson, McCoy, Hill, Goldson

[justice98]

It's not the 50% that's the problem. It's the 4 tries in 3 yrs when the rest of the league has 15 tries in the same time span. Our coaches have no confidence in Kai past 50 yds. If he was 50% with say 7 of 14, then that would be totally different. 50% from 50+ is a good ratio, but not when it's about 25% of the average opportunities.

 

Well, when you look at it, Kai doesn't kick a lot of FGs period.  He's attempted 18, 22, and 27.  That's not really a lot in comparison to the most kickers.  I would bet, for kickers that've kicked in the same amount of games in this 3 year span, 67 is probably on the low end.

 

It's probably not a stretch to suggest he's more a 50-54 guy in terms of range, rather than 55-59 guy.  That's gonna cut on your attempts as well.

[Koolblue13]

I just read a 247 (crap site) article about us maybe getting Spikes and I do agree, nobody could run on us with him and knighton in the middle and Trent and Ryan outside.

What's Riley's deal? I can't tell if he's not improving or haz hung him out. What's he excel at?

[Conn]

I've said I'd be on board with Spikes specifically for run defense on early downs. Could not hurt a bit.

[skinny21]

I just read a 247 (crap site) article about us maybe getting Spikes and I do agree, nobody could run on us with him and knighton in the middle and Trent and Ryan outside.

What's Riley's deal? I can't tell if he's not improving or haz hung him out. What's he excel at?

I can only go based off my (relatively uneducated) feel for him and some things I've heard.... but my impression is that Riley is pretty solid at coming forward - finding the right gap to attack the ball carrier and QB (when he blitzes). He seems to play relatively smart - sticking to his gap, timing his blitzes. Solid tackler. Pretty good at tracking to the sideline. I worry about him shedding blockers though. An even bigger worry given the rumors of more 1-gap play. OTOH, Knighton could be a big help there. He's not terrible at shadowing receivers (well, backs and TEs anyway), but he rarely has his head around and will often be a step behind - just enough for a good QB to take advantage of pretty consistently. Saw the same thing with Fletcher when people started complaining about him losing a step.

To reiterate (and to be more clear)... I have no idea what I'm talking about.

[goskins10]

Sometimes it's just a matter of circumstance.  Stephen Gostkowski, arguably the best kicker in the league, only attempted 1 from 50+ last year.  In 2012, he only attempted 2.  Then for some reason, he had 6 in 2013.  So in a given year, it might just work out that you don't attempt a lot from 50+.  The lack of attempts for Kai should not be proof positive that he can't hit from distance. 

 

But Forbath was 7-9 from 40+ last year, 24 of 29 in his career, that's not a bad percentage by any means.  The narrative that he can't hit from distance is grossly overstated. 

 

Over 3 yrs - 1 att, 2 att, 1 att. That's just not one yr. Also, you picked one guy who went up and down more than others in 50+ Fgs. The league average is about 5 att/yr. fro those with more than 20 att. overall.   Kai has 4 in 3 yrs! Clearly the team has no confidence in him for long FGs whether he can kick them or not! Also, his KOs are a liability. Those are facts not up for debate, no matter how you want to cut the data.

 

Most people could not wait to get rid of Orakpo because all he had was one rush move and was not great in coverage, in other words not a complete player. But kicker it's Ok to be 1/2 a player? Yes, he is a nice FG kicker! Great! Wonderful! But that's just one part of the job. Why settle? Why not get better everywhere we can?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Over 3 yrs - 1 att, 2 att, 1 att. That's just not one yr. Also, you picked one guy who went up and down more than others in 50+ Fgs. The league average is about 5 att/yr. fro those with more than 20 att. overall.   Kai has 4 in 3 yrs! Clearly the team has no confidence in him for long FGs whether he can kick them or not! Also, his KOs are a liability. Those are facts not up for debate, no matter how you want to cut the data.

 

Most people could not wait to get rid of Orakpo because all he had was one rush move and was not great in coverage, in other words not a complete player. But kicker it's Ok to be 1/2 a player? Yes, he is a nice FG kicker! Great! Wonderful! But that's just one part of the job. Why settle? Why not get better everywhere we can?

 

I don't think it's a matter of not wanting to get better, it's a matter of not wanting to trade FG accuracy for kickoff distance.

[redrobert]

Moving on from the Kicker talk

Per Rotoworld:

Jaguars signed C Stefen Wisniewski, formerly of the Raiders, to a one-year, $2.5 million deal.

Recovering from offseason shoulder surgery, the deal is of the "prove it" variety after Wisniewski struggled to find the money he was looking for in free agency. Barely 26 and with four years of above-average tape already in hand, Wisniewski is a great bet to rehab his value and come back in a stronger negotiating position next offseason. Wisniewski should slide into center beside LG Zane Beadles and RG Brandon Linder with Luke Joeckel starting left tackle and newly-signed Jermey Parnell holding down the right side of the Jags' offensive line.

Very disappointed we did not get this guy, especially at this number...

[SkinsGuy]

redrobert writes:

Very disappointed we did not get this guy, especially at this number...

Eh, I trust GM Scott on these matters right now.

If he feels that Wisniewski isn't a good fit for the Redskins, that's fine.

[redskindan07]

I'd like for the Skins to entertain the idea of trading a late pick for Mychal Kendricks. He should be available after the re-signings and trade

[goskins10]

 

I don't think it's a matter of not wanting to get better, it's a matter of not wanting to trade FG accuracy for kickoff distance.

 

 

Exactly where did I say I would rather have KO distance or that I was willing to trade one for the other?  IS there really a problem with wanting both? The definition of getting better is improving. You are not improving if you give up FG accuracy for KO.

 

It's apparent that we have been so bad in so many positions for so long that now doing 1/2 your job well is just okey dokey.

[Larry]

I don't think it's a matter of not wanting to get better, it's a matter of not wanting to trade FG accuracy for kickoff distance.

That's me.

Gimme a kicker who's perfect from 50 yards in. Those plays get me points.

Give me some ST who can tackle somebody on the 25 or 30, and I'm perfectly happy with Forbath.

[moondog]

Lmao! Runnin low on players to hate on when you gotta find something wrong with the best kicker we've had in 20 years. Kai is ****ing legit, kickoff TB's hardly matter anymore, kicking from the 35 makes coverage just as important and Kai's a damn good directional kicker to pin teams. 

 

Ya'll wanna **** about his leg strength? Dude is money inside 50. He's a freaking nut hair away from being a 90% kicker over his career! Said it before and I'll say it again: A huge number of this team's fans are not happy with a player unless they are undeniably top 5 at their position OR a Pro-Bowler on a minimum contract. Get a clue, that's not how a single team is built in this league. Kai has been excellent for us. With the exception of the worst ST coach in the league getting several of his kicks blocked, Kai is over 90% on his career. Give me that every time and I'll take 50% from beyond 50 yards every time. 

 

Anyone want that ****er back from Baltimore that could boot it out of the endzone and had the leg for a 60 yarder but couldn't make a field goal to save his life? I think he signed with the Browns and lost them a game or two...no? Didn't think so. Find something else to **** about now that Orakpo is gone, please. Thank you. 

[goskins10]

Lmao! Runnin low on players to hate on when you gotta find something wrong with the best kicker we've had in 20 years. Kai is ****ing legit, kickoff TB's hardly matter anymore, kicking from the 35 makes coverage just as important and Kai's a damn good directional kicker to pin teams. 

 

Ya'll wanna **** about his leg strength? Dude is money inside 50. He's a freaking nut hair away from being a 90% kicker over his career! Said it before and I'll say it again: A huge number of this team's fans are not happy with a player unless they are undeniably top 5 at their position OR a Pro-Bowler on a minimum contract. Get a clue, that's not how a single team is built in this league. Kai has been excellent for us. With the exception of the worst ST coach in the league getting several of his kicks blocked, Kai is over 90% on his career. Give me that every time and I'll take 50% from beyond 50 yards every time. 

 

Anyone want that ****er back from Baltimore that could boot it out of the endzone and had the leg for a 60 yarder but couldn't make a field goal to save his life? I think he signed with the Browns and lost them a game or two...no? Didn't think so. Find something else to **** about now that Orakpo is gone, please. Thank you. 

 

 

Sorry, I thought this was a place where you could have an adult conversation about the Washington Redskins. Get a clue? Running low on players to hate? Find something else to **** about? Yea you caught me. I hate everything Redskins. I want 53 pro-bowlers or **** the whole team!!  

 

Sorry you don't like facts or data. Sorry that hurts your little feelings. But they are still real. The fact is he is not a complete player. For some reason they will not let him try 50+ yd Fgs (he has 4 atts in 3 yrs vs. the league average of 5/yr or 15 in that same time frame). When you back out 50 yd attempts, at least half the kickers are 90% or better. His short KOs give the other team almost 4 yds better field position that the league average, putting our def in a hole. 

 

No one is saying run the guy out on a rail. All I am saying is that we need to bring in competition as their is room for improvement. But I guess we have lived with bad teams for so long, doing 1/2 your job well is more than acceptable. It must be the new standard.  

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Exactly where did I say I would rather have KO distance or that I was willing to trade one for the other?  IS there really a problem with wanting both?

Exactly where did i say there was a problem with wanting both? lol

The reality is, kickoff distance and making FGs from 50+ yards go hand in hand...they both speak to the perceived leg strength of the FG kicker. Most who are OK with Forbath won't find too much fault with his leg strength as it pertains to FGs/kickoffs precisely because he does rather well in all other facets of his game, and we haven't had anyone as reliable in a looooong time.

 

The definition of getting better is improving. You are not improving if you give up FG accuracy for KO.

 

It's apparent that we have been so bad in so many positions for so long that now doing 1/2 your job well is just okey dokey.

"half your job"...yeah, half of a kicker's FG attempts are usually from 50+ yards out lol.

[goskins10]

Exactly where did i say there was a problem with wanting both? lol

The reality is, kickoff distance and making FGs from 50+ yards go hand in hand...they both speak to the perceived leg strength of the FG kicker. Most who are OK with Forbath won't find too much fault with his leg strength as it pertains to FGs/kickoffs precisely because he does rather well in all other facets of his game, and we haven't had anyone as reliable in a looooong time.

 

"half your job"...yeah, half of a kicker's FG attempts are usually from 50+ yards out lol.

 

 

The same place I said I wanted KOs more than FGs, yet that's the conclusion you came to.

 

You know the point was half the job is KOs the other half is FGs. Again, trying to put words in my statement that are not there. I can do that too: So FGs are the only responsibility that kickers have? KOs don't matter?

 

Can't tell if you were trying to be funny or just obtuse. Not really important. A totally unnecessary statement either way.

[TysonM]

I think most of us agree that bringing in competition is always good.

 

It is not without risk, though.  You can have competition that has a hot streak leading to their being picked... only to find them falling flat on their face when the season begins.

[moondog]

Sorry, I thought this was a place where you could have an adult conversation about the Washington Redskins. Get a clue? Running low on players to hate? Find something else to **** about? Yea you caught me. I hate everything Redskins. I want 53 pro-bowlers or **** the whole team!!  

 

Sorry you don't like facts or data. Sorry that hurts your little feelings. But they are still real. The fact is he is not a complete player. For some reason they will not let him try 50+ yd Fgs (he has 4 atts in 3 yrs vs. the league average of 5/yr or 15 in that same time frame). When you back out 50 yd attempts, at least half the kickers are 90% or better. His short KOs give the other team almost 4 yds better field position that the league average, putting our def in a hole. 

 

No one is saying run the guy out on a rail. All I am saying is that we need to bring in competition as their is room for improvement. But I guess we have lived with bad teams for so long, doing 1/2 your job well is more than acceptable. It must be the new standard.  

 

 

My post was a generalization about many on here, but since you chose to personalize "hurting my little feelings..." lol

 

You are right, facts do matter. How about this fact: Kai Forbath is the most accurate kicker in Redskins history. You're welcome. His accuracy would be EVEN higher if our blocking had not been so porous a year ago (although that, I concede, is not factual because maybe he misses them although his factual stats suggest strongly otherwise)

 

I don't apologize for valuing that much, much higher than 2-3 more 50+ yard attempts per year. I also most certainly do not see 3-4 more yards as a significant hole that we are putting our defense in. Forbath is damn good at directional kicking and imo a team starting at the 25 vs the 20 is far outweighed by the fact that Kai is damn near automatic for three points. 

 

Finally, another fact is that Kai HAS seen competition every single year. And he's beat it. Like I said, we've had the guys with big legs like Tucker and Gano, they weren't accurate kickers and cost us games. Field goal accuracy will cost you more games than KO's. I'm sorry you apparently took my post as a personal attack on you but I stick hard to my point that so many fans, especially on here, will never be satisfied with any of our players/coaches etc. I think that you will find I am about as mature and factual when it comes to arguments on here as it gets, which is perhaps why I sometimes lose my patience with those that so quickly **** and moan about non issues. 

 

Kai Forbath is a damn good kicker. I'm happy to see competition brought in for him but to say we need to move on from him when he is literally the most accurate kicker in team history, has won us games and has shown progress on his kickoffs is asinine. 

[pjfootballer]

Gano was the one that I wanted to keep. 

 

He was 73% here in Washington. Once he left the clutches of Danny Smith and our horrible STs, he has been at 84% with Carolina, while still among the league leaders in touchbacks.

 

Kai has been at 88% with us. So, not too much difference in the overall FG percentage, but with Kai, you give up the long FGs and touchbacks.

[goskins10]

My post was a generalization about many on here, but since you chose to personalize "hurting my little feelings..." lol

 

Edited for space.

 

Kai Forbath is a damn good kicker. I'm happy to see competition brought in for him but to say we need to move on from him when he is literally the most accurate kicker in team history, has won us games and has shown progress on his kickoffs is asinine. 

 

Your response was directed at me so I responded in kind.What is asinine is that if someone points out an opportunity to get better, if it doesn't fit everyone else's idea then that person must hate all that is Redskins or want 53 pro-bowlers.

 

I stated - and you ignored - several times that if nothing happened that would be OK, making it obvious that I also value FG over KOs. I would not want to trade one for the other.

 

I will leave it at that. No sense in continuing. Have a great day.

[moondog]

Your response was directed at me so I responded in kind.What is asinine is that if someone points out an opportunity to get better, if it doesn't fit everyone else's idea then that person must hate all that is Redskins or want 53 pro-bowlers.

 

I stated - and you ignored - several times that if nothing happened that would be OK, making it obvious that I also value FG over KOs. I would not want to trade one for the other.

 

I will leave it at that. No sense in continuing. Have a great day.

 

My response was never directly stated at you, if it had been I would have written your name or quoted you, I did not. I read the last couple pages, most of which consisted of comments all looking to complain about Forbath. 

 

As I stated, Forbath has been challenged, and he has gotten better. 

 

PJFootballer, I was pretty upset when we said goodbye to Gano as well. 73% is pretty atrocious and hard to defend, but he was my favorite kicker that we'd had in a long time and as a young player there was plenty of room for improvement. It did not help that we replaced him with complete garbage.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Can you guys please take this to the Official Kai Forbath thread?

[pjfootballer]

Why? Nothing going on in free agency. This thread would be dead without the kicker talk.

[redrobert]

My fault, posted he was resigned and derailment commenced...

How about LB Spikes?

[Taylor703]

My fault, posted he was resigned and derailment commenced...

How about LB Spikes?

I want to see what Riley does in this new defense. He was playing quite well the year before and then everything went to hell.

[Taylor703]

oops wrong thread lol...