WP The Insider: Is Bruce Allen to blame for the Redskins' current mess?

[elkabong82]

What's sad is that you don't even realize how absurd you are. During any FA, teams always go after their first priority. No one waits around for their top options, they always want the first chance to negotiate. So yes, Luavao was his top option. As far as blaming Haslett on Gruden, I'm sure Allen didn't convince Gruden AT ALL. 

 

Again, I'm not going to argue with you anymore. I have no choice in how many years Allen gets and my opinion doesn't matter in how the team is being run. All I know is this FO, with its current structure, will fail and I don't need to play the wait and see game. 

 

yes, because holding off on overall judgement just 5 games in is absurd. LMAO. 

 

there were several big name FAs that teams got into bidding wars over and weren't signed right away, but good to know you would have given tens of millions of dollars to a big free agent because that has worked so well for us in the past. Unbelievable. You clearly don't understand the reserved nature of the FO in FA and are championing us to repeat the mistakes made in FA under Cerrato. Bravo. Slow, sarcastic clap.

I agree. The FO has changed the system so often that it becomes hard to actually build a team. 

 

Odd that you can recognize the need for consistency yet seemingly support firing Allen just 5 games in.

[Taylor 36]

yes, because holding off on overall judgement just 5 games in is absurd. LMAO. 

 

there were several big name FAs that teams got into bidding wars over and weren't signed right away, but good to know you would have given tens of millions of dollars to a big free agent because that has worked so well for us in the past. Unbelievable. You clearly don't understand the reserved nature of the FO in FA and are championing us to repeat the mistakes made in FA under Cerrato. Bravo. Slow, sarcastic clap.

One thing I do give Bruce a ton of props for is the way he has handled the contracts with FA's.  One of the worst things about the Vinny error, I mean era, was the money we would dish out to FA's that would bind us and handicap us for years after the fact (I hated how many guys were off our team but still getting money from us).  Like his brother, Bruce is definitely conservative, at least when it comes to money, and I really appreciate that.  Hell, even the DJax deal was sweet.  Vinny would have probably offered him somewhere in the neighborhood of 80 million with 50 guaranteed.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Let's just throw this out there and be done with it.  Bruce Allen sucks as a GM.

[chipwhich]

Well, we did with Shanahan.  The problem with a veteran coach being in charge like that is that they are all about winning now and don't care much for the future.  So, they try to take short cuts that end up costing us more in the end.  It is why I hated getting Shanahan, because it likely meant the return of the same problems we had under Gibbs, and it was true to a lesser degree.  The draft was still important, but we still had stupid crap like the McNabb trade. We also had RG3 getting hurt in a playoff game that he should have been pulled from.

 

I do think Allen has a vision with the selection of Gruden: they wanted a very QB-oriented coach to work on the franchise, RG3. Course, the last time we tried that, we got Zorn, but Gruden looks much better than that.

Yeah, which is why you hire a GM to hire a coach.  It's like chasing your tail.  We hired a GM to be a figurehead and hired Shanny to build everything else.  So Allen then builds a teams salaries based on Shanny's vision.  Then we blew it up, and moved Allen to the GM role and hired Gruden to coach the team.  The problem is there is no direction.  It was obvious in the draft.

 

I never wanted to hire Shanny.  Nor did I want a veteran coach.  I wanted a GM who hired a coach and a staff.  The way Allen backed into the job, nothing new transpires.  We just get the same ol same ol.

[Thinking Skins]

Over on the Morgan Moses thread, KDawg and I were discussing the Skins recent draft record with regard to the ol. I wanted to re-post it here.

 

First Message:

Because our top OL picks are:

Morgan Moses: 3rd Round

Spencer Long: 3rd Round

Josh LeRibeus: 3rd Round

Tom Comptom: 6th Round

Here's the rounds of the OL drafted since 2004:

Jim Molinaro - 6th Round, Pick 180 (2004)

Kili Lefotu - 7th Round, Pick 230 (2006)

Chad Rinehart - 3rd Round, Pick 96 (2008)

Trent Williams - 1st Round, Pick 4 (2010)

Eric Cook - 7th Round, Pick 229 (2010)

Selvish Capers - 7th Round, Pick 231 (2010)

Maurice Hurt - 7th Round, Pick 217 (2011)

Josh LeRibeus - 3rd Round, Pick 71 - (2012)

Adam Gettis - 5th Round, Pick 141 (2012)

Tom Compton - 6th Round, Pick 193 (2012)

Morgan Moses - 3rd Round, Pick 66 (2014)

Spencer Long - 3rd Round, Pick 78 (2014)

-In the last decade we've drafted five offensive linemen that are still with the team.

-Prior to the 2012 draft, we have just one drafted lineman still with the team. Keep in mind, that LeRibeus, Long, Moses and Compton could all either pan out or turn to fodder as well.

-An alarming trend: We draft offensive linemen roughly once every two years. Years we drafted OL: 2004, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014. The only exception to that rule is in 2011 where we took an OL in the 7th round.

-Other than Trent Williams in 2010's first round, or next highest OL draft pick has been: Morgan Moses, 66th, 2014. He was selected 62 places later than we selected Trent Williams in the 2010 draft.

-The average draft placement that we selected an offensive linemen is Pick 144, which translates to a mid-fourth rounder.

-WITHOUT including Trent Williams in that number, our average draft placement for an offensive lineman is 157, which is just three picks before the fifth round begins.

-Round Breakdown for OL: 1st (1), 2nd (0), 3rd (4), 4th (0), 5th (1), 6th (2), 7th (4)

-Does anyone think this is okay? We have spent ONE draft choice on the offensive line in the top two rounds. ONE!!!!!!!!!!! In a decade. Think about that. IN A DECADE. ONCE!!!!!!!! Freakin' ONE! And only one guy prior to the 66th pick in the draft!!!!!!!

Just to kind of drive home that point:

-The Bills have drafted Cordy Glenn (round 2), Cyrus Kouandijo (round 2), Eric Wood (round 1) since 2009. All of which are on their roster. The only one who isn't starting is Kouandijo.

-The 49ers have drafted: Joe Staley (round 1), Anthony Davis/Mike Iupati (round 1) since 2007.

-The Seahawks have drafted: Justin Britt (round 2), James Carpenter (round 1), Russell Okung (round 1), Max Unger (round 2) since 2009. All of which start.

-heck, since 2007 the Browns have used two first rounders on OL: Alex Mack and Joe Thomas.

We're going back to 2004!!! These teams (and I don't have time to go through everyone, I actually randomly clicked on teams) all have spent MULTIPLE 1s/2s on OL since '07 at the latest. We've spent ONE since 2004!!!

Second Message:

KDawg, you've got to talk about context in that post. We went from a non-draft dependent team in the 2004-2010 years to a more draft dependent team in 2010 - 2014. Its still not where I like but when you don't have draft picks, its kinda hard to spend draft picks on linemen (or any position).

Couple that with the RG3 trade and we lost first round pics in the 2013 draft and 2014 draft and a second rounder in the 2012 draft. So since 2010, we've drafted

- 3 OL in 2010 (picks 4, 229 and 231) out of 6 picks

- 1 OL in 2011 (pick 217) out of 12 picks

- 3 OL in 2012 (picks 71, 141, and 193) out of 9 picks

- 0 OL in 2013 out of 7 picks

- 2 OL in 2014 (picks 66 and 78) out of 8 picks.

So in total in the last 5 drafts we've had 42 total picks, nine of which have gone towards the OL

Breaking it down a bit further.

First rounders:

QB, DE, OL (1/3 of first round goes to OL)

Second Rounders:

LB, DB, DL

(1/6 of first 2 rounds goes to OL)

Third Rounders:

OL, OL, TE, OL, WR,

(4/11 of first 3 rounds goes to OL)

Fourth Rounders:

DB, DB, QB, LB, RB, LB

(4/17 of first 4 rounds goes to OL)

Fifth Rounders:

WR, RB, DE, OL, DB, WR/TE

(5/23 of first 5 rounds goes to OL)

Sixth Rounders:

RB, DB, RB, OL, RB, WR, RB

(6/30 of the first 6 rounds goes to OL)

Seventh Rounders:

TE, K, RB, DB, DB, DB, OL, DL, DL, WR, OL, OL

(9/42 of the first 7 rounds goes to OL)

- 0 DB in 2010 out of 6 picks

- 2 DB in 2011 (picks 146 and 213) out of 12 picks

- 2 DB in 2012 (picks 213 and 217) out of 9 picks

- 2 DB in 2013 (picks 119 and 191) out of 7 picks

- 1 DB in 2014 (pick 102) out of 8 picks.

- 0 DL in 2010 out of 6 picks

- 4 DB in 2011 (picks 16, 41, 224, and 253) out of 12 picks

- 0 DL in 2012 out of 9 picks

- 0 DL in 2013 out of 7 picks

- 0 DL in 2014 out of 8 picks.

If you look at our draft history, you can see that we actually do draft OL fairly high with this front office, especially when compared to say DBs or DL. One problem has been that our coaches have been unable to either get this talent on the field, or our scouts are not good enough at finding good talent. But under Allen we have been addressing OL more than some other glaring needs.

Third Message:

KDawg, you've got to talk about context in that post.

No, you don't. There is no context there. We HAVEN'T drafted offensive line and that is a KEY reason why we are what we are.

We went from a non-draft dependent team in the 2004-2010 years to a more draft dependent team in 2010 - 2014. Its still not where I like but when you don't have draft picks, its kinda hard to spend draft picks on linemen (or any position).

That is a reason. That doesn't change the fact we didn't draft them. We traded draft choices that could have been linemen. That is just as condemning as using the pick elsewhere.

Couple that with the RG3 trade and we lost first round pics in the 2013 draft and 2014 draft and a second rounder in the 2012 draft. So since 2010, we've drafted

- 3 OL in 2010 (picks 4, 229 and 231) out of 6 picks

- 1 OL in 2011 (pick 217) out of 12 picks

- 3 OL in 2012 (picks 71, 141, and 193) out of 9 picks

- 0 OL in 2013 out of 7 picks

- 2 OL in 2014 (picks 66 and 78) out of 8 picks.

So in total in the last 5 drafts we've had 42 total picks, nine of which have gone towards the OL

Breaking it down a bit further.

Average draft position of the OL in those drafts was: 136. That's an earlyish fourth rounder. That's counting Trent Williams in that number. That's NOT addressing the line. I'm sorry, but it's not. Bodies do not equal quality.

First rounders:

QB, DE, OL (1/3 of first round goes to OL)

Correction:

QB, QB, QB, DE, OL - The draft picks still existed. We chose to trade them.

If you look at our draft history, you can see that we actually do draft OL fairly high with this front office, especially when compared to say DBs or DL. One problem has been that our coaches have been unable to either get this talent on the field, or our scouts are not good enough at finding good talent. But under Allen we have been addressing OL more than some other glaring needs.

Fairly high? A fourth round average is fairly high? Come on. I agree with you on DL, as that's been neglected as well. And that shows, too.

Fourth Message:

No, you don't. There is no context there. We HAVEN'T drafted offensive line and that is a KEY reason why we are what we are.

That is a reason. That doesn't change the fact we didn't draft them. We traded draft choices that could have been linemen. That is just as condemning as using the pick elsewhere.

Average draft position of the OL in those drafts was: 136. That's an earlyish fourth rounder. That's counting Trent Williams in that number. That's NOT addressing the line. I'm sorry, but it's not. Bodies do not equal quality.

Correction:

QB, QB, QB, DE, OL - The draft picks still existed. We chose to trade them.

Fairly high? A fourth round average is fairly high? Come on. I agree with you on DL, as that's been neglected as well. And that shows, too.

OK. I don't want to sound like I'm trying to give a pass or anything to the strategy of trading away picks and building the team through free agency. I have just been less sad about the decisions of this front office than when operating under Vinny. I don't think 4th round is a good average anywhere, but what I was saying was just that relative to other positions we do draft OL (at least this FO). They're not successful when they get here, which speaks to our scouting dept and or coaching. But in order to win the lottery you've got to have a ticket. I'm just glad we've had more lotto tickets lately (and its not like we've been drafting that badly lately, we've 5 + 2 + 6 + 7 + 2 = 22 players from these drafts still on our roster, with 7-9 starters (Depending on how you define Niles Paul/Jordan Reed, and Jarvis Jenkins).

Fifth Message:

I'm not condemning this current FO yet, to be honest. I'm condemning the franchise as a whole. Look no further than the lack of draft choices on the OL/DL in the early rounds in the last decade to further prove that issue. Although, the Kerrigan and Orakpo picks are pseudo-DL choices. But on the interior, tackles (1-tech, 3-tech, 0-tech) we haven't done much of anything.

[skinfan2k]

i love the people who claim Bruce is a numbers guy.  Please, anyone can do accounting. 

[knowledge316]

yes, because holding off on overall judgement just 5 games in is absurd. LMAO. 

 

there were several big name FAs that teams got into bidding wars over and weren't signed right away, but good to know you would have given tens of millions of dollars to a big free agent because that has worked so well for us in the past. Unbelievable. You clearly don't understand the reserved nature of the FO in FA and are championing us to repeat the mistakes made in FA under Cerrato. Bravo. Slow, sarcastic clap.

 

Odd that you can recognize the need for consistency yet seemingly support firing Allen just 5 games in.

 

Someone lacks reading comprehension and is making assumptions. Where did I say I would give huge contracts to FAs? Unbelievable. Fact is his top choice for OL was Luavo and he was lowly rated. There were other guards that were rated higher than him and received similar contracts. You clearly don't understand what a bad FO looks like and are championing us to repeat the mistakes made under previous FOs in drafts and FA. Bravo. Slow, sarcastic clap.

 

I will have patience with the proper FO and what we have here isn't a proper one so I won't have patience for them. Allen could remain as President, but needs to get a football GM and improve the scouting department. 

[elkabong82]

i love the people who claim Bruce is a numbers guy.  Please, anyone can do accounting. 

 

Is this a serious post?

[Bantu]

I love these long ass posts going point by point on draft picks, who was supposedly in charge during this era or that, etc, etc.

Stop typing so much crap none of us want to read & admit why this marketing company that just "happens" to also play football is run by one incompetent person. We all know who he is.

[elkabong82]

Someone lacks reading comprehension and is making assumptions. Where did I say I would give huge contracts to FAs? Unbelievable. Fact is his top choice for OL was Luavo and he was lowly rated. There were other guards that were rated higher than him and received similar contracts. You clearly don't understand what a bad FO looks like and are championing us to repeat the mistakes made under previous FOs in drafts and FA. Bravo. Slow, sarcastic clap.

 

I will have patience with the proper FO and what we have here isn't a proper one so I won't have patience for them. Allen could remain as President, but needs to get a football GM and improve the scouting department. 

 

When you're continually whining that our first FA target is Lauvao (and ignoring who all we got in FA), that means you want a stronger emphasis on who we take first in FA, in who is the priority. The only way an early signing fits your parameters is if it is a big name FA. So I don't lack reading comprehension, but rather you lack the knowledge (see what I did there?) to understand the reality of what it is you are demanding. 

 

What other guards were rated higher and received similar contracts? Lauvao signed 4 yr/17 mil. Sorting http://www.nfl.com/freeagency by position and looking at guards I'm not seeing these great guards who were better and had similar contracts, and nitpicking 1 signing when we made other great moves is ridiculous. The entire FA haul should be analyzed but you aren't doing it because it's not convenient to your argument.

 

Every Redskins fan knows what a bad FO looks like, get real. I'm championing us to have patience, otherwise we fire a GM too soon and other quality ones won't want to come here, something you and the other overreacters completely ignore in your desperate attempt to hurl blame without logic.

 

LMAO you say you'll have patience with a proper FO. Yeah right, you can't even give this one half a season and by your last sentence clearly don't understand the FO structure as it is right now. You seem to think personnel is all Allen when in fact his role currently IS mostly as President and he has two directly under him that have larger roles with various aspects of personnel. But let's blow all that up just 5 games in because some fans can't contain their hissy fits.

[Brokenstriker]

 

Second Message:

KDawg, you've got to talk about context in that post. We went from a non-draft dependent team in the 2004-2010 years to a more draft dependent team in 2010 - 2014. Its still not where I like but when you don't have draft picks, its kinda hard to spend draft picks on linemen (or any position).

Couple that with the RG3 trade and we lost first round pics in the 2013 draft and 2014 draft and a second rounder in the 2012 draft. So since 2010, we've drafted

- 3 OL in 2010 (picks 4, 229 and 231) out of 6 picks

- 1 OL in 2011 (pick 217) out of 12 picks

- 3 OL in 2012 (picks 71, 141, and 193) out of 9 picks

- 0 OL in 2013 out of 7 picks

- 2 OL in 2014 (picks 66 and 78) out of 8 picks.

So in total in the last 5 drafts we've had 42 total picks, nine of which have gone towards the OL

Breaking it down a bit further.

First rounders:

QB, DE, OL (1/3 of first round goes to OL)

Second Rounders:

LB, DB, DL

(1/6 of first 2 rounds goes to OL)

Third Rounders:

OL, OL, TE, OL, WR,

(4/11 of first 3 rounds goes to OL)

Fourth Rounders:

DB, DB, QB, LB, RB, LB

(4/17 of first 4 rounds goes to OL)

Fifth Rounders:

WR, RB, DE, OL, DB, WR/TE

(5/23 of first 5 rounds goes to OL)

Sixth Rounders:

RB, DB, RB, OL, RB, WR, RB

(6/30 of the first 6 rounds goes to OL)

Seventh Rounders:

TE, K, RB, DB, DB, DB, OL, DL, DL, WR, OL, OL

(9/42 of the first 7 rounds goes to OL)

- 0 DB in 2010 out of 6 picks

- 2 DB in 2011 (picks 146 and 213) out of 12 picks

- 2 DB in 2012 (picks 213 and 217) out of 9 picks

- 2 DB in 2013 (picks 119 and 191) out of 7 picks

- 1 DB in 2014 (pick 102) out of 8 picks.

- 0 DL in 2010 out of 6 picks

- 4 DB in 2011 (picks 16, 41, 224, and 253) out of 12 picks

- 0 DL in 2012 out of 9 picks

- 0 DL in 2013 out of 7 picks

- 0 DL in 2014 out of 8 picks.

If you look at our draft history, you can see that we actually do draft OL fairly high with this front office, especially when compared to say DBs or DL. One problem has been that our coaches have been unable to either get this talent on the field, or our scouts are not good enough at finding good talent. But under Allen we have been addressing OL more than some other glaring needs.

when you factor in the fact that there are at least 5 arguably 6 O-Line positions ... this makes the attention paid to the "O-Line" 5 to 6 times weaker.  The 6th would be bulldozer blocking TE ... which we haven't drafted since Don Warren.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

i love the people who claim Bruce is a numbers guy.  Please, anyone can do accounting. 

I went to a salon once to buy my mom a gift certificate for a manicure / pedicure for her birthday. The girl told me it was only $23 which was way lower than I expected. I decided to get two in case she wanted to bring a friend along. The girl working there pulls out a calculator. I figure she is calculating the tax or something. Nope...

 

"$46"

[Cooleyfan1993]

I went to a salon once to buy my mom a gift certificate for a manicure / pedicure for her birthday. The girl told me it was only $23 which was way lower than I expected. I decided to get two in case she wanted to bring a friend along. The girl working there pulls out a calculator. I figure she is calculating the tax or something. Nope...

 

"$46"

wow...im bad at math but even i can do 23X2 in my head.

[knowledge316]

When you're continually whining that our first FA target is Lauvao (and ignoring who all we got in FA), that means you want a stronger emphasis on who we take first in FA, in who is the priority. The only way an early signing fits your parameters is if it is a big name FA. So I don't lack reading comprehension, but rather you lack the knowledge (see what I did there?) to understand the reality of what it is you are demanding. 

 

What other guards were rated higher and received similar contracts? Lauvao signed 4 yr/17 mil. Sorting http://www.nfl.com/freeagency by position and looking at guards I'm not seeing these great guards who were better and had similar contracts, and nitpicking 1 signing when we made other great moves is ridiculous. The entire FA haul should be analyzed but you aren't doing it because it's not convenient to your argument.

 

Every Redskins fan knows what a bad FO looks like, get real. I'm championing us to have patience, otherwise we fire a GM too soon and other quality ones won't want to come here, something you and the other overreacters completely ignore in your desperate attempt to hurl blame without logic.

 

LMAO you say you'll have patience with a proper FO. Yeah right, you can't even give this one half a season and by your last sentence clearly don't understand the FO structure as it is right now. You seem to think personnel is all Allen when in fact his role currently IS mostly as President and he has two directly under him that have larger roles with various aspects of personnel. But let's blow all that up just 5 games in because some fans can't contain their hissy fits.

 

I'm done arguing with you about this. You have your opinions and I'll have mine. In couple of years when this FO fails, I know I was right. 

 

Have a great day.

[TheLongshot]

 

Yeah, which is why you hire a GM to hire a coach.  It's like chasing your tail.  We hired a GM to be a figurehead and hired Shanny to build everything else.  So Allen then builds a teams salaries based on Shanny's vision.  Then we blew it up, and moved Allen to the GM role and hired Gruden to coach the team.  The problem is there is no direction.  It was obvious in the draft.

 

I never wanted to hire Shanny.  Nor did I want a veteran coach.  I wanted a GM who hired a coach and a staff.  The way Allen backed into the job, nothing new transpires.  We just get the same ol same ol.

 

 

So we agree that Shanahan was a mistake.  We can move on from that.

 

As for Bruce being a "figurehead", you do know that the role of GM does involve more than just selecting the head coach and the players right?  In fact, I'm pretty sure that Shanahan didn't get involved with all the minutiae that a GM needs to deal with.  I mean, he was the head coach, with everything that entails.  Doing the GM job by yourself as well is too much for one man.

 

In any case, Bruce is certainly not a "figurehead" now, nor was he at previous stops in his career.  He did exactly what you wanted: hired a coach and let him chose his staff.

 

As for direction in the draft, you know the draft isn't a supermarket where you can take your grocery list and get exactly what you want, right?  You take what you can get and fill your needs.  What I saw from the offseason was direction, but one not involved in overspending or getting into bidding wars.  This is a team with a lot of needs, more than could be filled in one offseason.  The priorities I saw:

 

OL: They needed to sign a veteran guard to take Lich's spot, since none of the young guys were ready to be pencilled in there.  I've always viewed the signing of Luavao as a stopgap until young guys eventually replace him.  Then they drafted two OL relatively high to eventually take the places of the veterans there.  They did want to do more here, like sign Penn to play RT, but it didn't work out.

 

Offensive targets: Historically, the Skins are awful at drafting WRs.  The last good one we drafted was Art Monk.  So, finding WRs in FA was a priority.  Roberts was a good value pick that has helped the team.  Because the team was smart about the contracts, they had the room to take advantage of Jackson's availability and was a nice bonus.  So far, Grant is looking better than expected, making our WRs probably deeper than they have been since the Posse.

 

Running backs: There was a strong desire to address running back speed.  They wanted to get Sproles but couldn't.  They drafted Seastrunk, but he didn't make the roster.  So, this wasn't so successful this offseason.

 

Pass rush: There was a focus to improve the pass rush, particularly on the inside.  Chris Baker was a priority for resigning.  They signed Hatcher and so far he's been up to the job.  They drafted Murphy to help out with the pass rush and potentially be a replacement for Orakpo.  The results have been somewhat mixed, with Kerrigan leading the NFL in sacks, but still not getting enough pressure due to a shaky secondary.  Injuries haven't helped.

 

Secondary: I think they read correctly that they weren't going to get much help in the secondary in FA.  Clark was brought back to be a veteran presence in the secondary.  Porter was brought in to handle slot duty, but his past history has caught up with him.  Breeland was drafted and could eventually be a FS candidate.  Unfortunately, Porter and Hall's injuries really put a monkey wrench into their plans, forcing the rookie to play a lot more than they really want.

 

Special teams: One of the failures of recent drafts was being able to find players late in the draft who could also play special teams.  There was a focus this offseason in bringing in guys who could help there, like Jordan and Hayward.  Roberts has finally nailed down the return spot, tho he might not be the dynamic player we could hope for.  We drafted a kicker, but Forbath manages to survive and is still the kicker he's always been, accurate but not a huge leg.  Despite doing not much to improve the punting situation in the offseason, the team's patience was rewarded with Tress Way, who looks money so far.

 

So, certainly I see a plan here.  Not everything was successful, but it is hard to fix so many problems in one season.  It hasn't helped that the injury bug has hit this team hard.  While we have found some depth to fill in, it has hurt us.

[SkinsFTW]

 

As for keeping Has around, there was no hurry to cut him loose and start paying him for not being here, particularly if you know your prime candidate is interested in keeping him around.  BTW, if there is anyone you should blame for Has still being here, it is Gruden.  He certainly had the option to choose someone else and didn't.

 

If I was the GM for the Redskins the whole Haslett thing would have been used as a test in hiring the next head coach.

 

Any coach that could look at a 15+ year run of defensive rankings like: 25th, 32nd, 27th, 21st, 30th, 24th, 31st, 26th and still say "That's my guy" is automatically somebody I wouldn't want as a head coach.

 

It's about as big of a sign as you can get and the most ridiculous part of it is not only Gruden wanted Haslett but THEY ALL DID from Snyder on down. This is how Snyder's teams have always been run. Nothing at all has changed other than Allen not signing every random dude on the market to a 5-7 year 30-40Million or more contract.

 

Do you really think all these guys look at those numbers and really believe Haslett is the best for the job or is it more like when those Generals go on TV lately and act like they really don't want to go drop 200k troops in the middle of ISIS disneyland but they don't say it because that's not what the man in charge wants?

[SkinsFTW]

  Cooke's record as owner is on par, actually a little below, with Snyder's.  Yet, many want to act like Snyder is the worst owner that ever existed and Cooke is beyond reproach.  Both let their guys do their jobs and make the decisions.

 

LOL are you serious?

 

3 Super Bowl Wins and 2 Super Bowl Losses, 10+ wins a year in all but 2 of Gibbs years and also winning alot in the 70's as well

 

VS

 

2 playoff wins in 15 Seasons and 1 of those was a team that Snyder had nothing to do with building and tore down several months later.

 

Snyder let his guys do their jobs so well and so often that he's ran through 6 head coaches in the past 14 NFL seasons and a GM has hired 1 of those, which is Gruden. Snyder hired all the others. Who was he letting do their job?

[SkinsFTW]

Well, we did with Shanahan.  The problem with a veteran coach being in charge like that is that they are all about winning now and don't care much for the future.  So, they try to take short cuts that end up costing us more in the end. 

 

And unfortunately the OWNER is the same way and who believes that he would be cool with 2-3 years of no Archuleta, McNabb, Haynesworth, DJax with fans not expecting us to go 8-8 at least and 1/2 the seats empty, no jersey sales, etc.

 

With Dan Snyder the marketing trumps the winning every year and we know this because we've had the total marketing circus every year but we've only won 2-3 seasons when the team went on hot streaks instead of the losing streaks.

[Rufus T Firefly]

So, certainly I see a plan here.  Not everything was successful, but it is hard to fix so many problems in one season.  It hasn't helped that the injury bug has hit this team hard.  While we have found some depth to fill in, it has hurt us.

Problem is, nothing you're describing sounds at all like a real "plan".

 

You're right, it would have been virtually impossible to fix everything in one offseason. Which is why it's so frustrating that Allen tried to. He took over a team with a ton of cap space and decided to spend it all to make the team as good as possible in the very short-term (and how'd that work out?). A plan would have been one that set the team up for long-term success.

 

The top four FAs we signed this year (Jackson, Hatcher, Lauvao, Roberts) count 13.25 mil against the cap this year. In two years, they will cost a combined 28 mil.  That means we gave away a lot of future cap space for the sake of 2014, saving space for short-term "solutions like Orakpo, Porter, Hayward, Sharpton, Clark, Geathers, Meriweather, as well as the non-release of the likes of Bowen and Chester. The cost of having those players (who have brought us to 1-4) around now is reduced cap space in the future, at just the moment that we'll likely need it to re-sign some potentially curical big-money players (Griffin, Williams, Kerriigan, Morris, Robinson, Garcon, Reed, etc).

 

I really don't see the "plan" that I'm supposed to be impressed with.

[Laron Burgundy]

Well, we did with Shanahan. The problem with a veteran coach being in charge like that is that they are all about winning now and don't care much for the future. So, they try to take short cuts that end up costing us more in the end. It is why I hated getting Shanahan, because it likely meant the return of the same problems we had under Gibbs, and it was true to a lesser degree. The draft was still important, but we still had stupid crap like the McNabb trade. We also had RG3 getting hurt in a playoff game that he should have been pulled from.

I do think Allen has a vision with the selection of Gruden: they wanted a very QB-oriented coach to work on the franchise, RG3. Course, the last time we tried that, we got Zorn, but Gruden looks much better than that.

For as much flak as people gave kyle for not tailoring his system to rg3, gruden's system seems even less fit for him and he's taken almost zero heat from that. It's all good and dandy to say we hired a QB guru to help the face of our franchise until you face the fact that he wants to entirely change rg3's game. Clearly hiring San Fran's or Seattle's coordinator would have made a million times more sense than someone who is apparently so uncreative and completely inflexible with his scheme that he is incapable of maximizing rg3's strengths. So was his hiring really Allen's grand scheme for our team or was it just a way to scratch the back of an old friend?

[PorkSkins]

Gimmick offenses only work for a short time.  After 2012 teams studied the read option and found out that if the QB steps forward after the snap, he is fair game.  RG III was getting blasted, even behind the line.  Everyone thinks 2012 was a great season.  Go back and look at how it started out.  It will be virtually impossible to ever run off that many wins in a row again to make the playoffs.  Playoffs, playoffs, you kidding me? Playoffs?  We're just trying to win a game. 

[Laron Burgundy]

Gimmick offenses only work for a short time. After 2012 teams studied the read option and found out that if the QB steps forward after the snap, he is fair game. RG III was getting blasted, even behind the line. Everyone thinks 2012 was a great season. Go back and look at how it started out. It will be virtually impossible to ever run off that many wins in a row again to make the playoffs. Playoffs, playoffs, you kidding me? Playoffs? We're just trying to win a game.

Kinda ironic how Russell Wilson just ran for some huge gains off the read option against us too. It almost feels like our edge defender never covered for the QB and only went for backside pursuit on their rb. You'd think our defenders would know how to play against it (always hit the hell out of the QB until they stop using it regardless of the gains from the rb).

[TheLongshot]

Problem is, nothing you

re describing sounds at all like a real "plan".

 

You're right, it would have been virtually impossible to fix everything in one offseason. Which is why it's so frustrating that Allen tried to. He took over a team with a ton of cap space and decided to spend it all to make the team as good as possible in the very short-term (and how'd that work out?). A plan would have been one that set the team up for long-term success.

 

The top four FAs we signed this year (Jackson, Hatcher, Lauvao, Roberts) count 13.25 mil against the cap this year. In two years, they will cost a combined 28 mil.  That means we gave away a lot of future cap space for the sake of 2014, saving space for short-term "solutions like Orakpo, Porter, Hayward, Sharpton, Clark, Geathers, Meriweather, as well as the non-release of the likes of Bowen and Chester. The cost of having those players (who have brought us to 1-4) around now is reduced cap space in the future, at just the moment that we'll likely need it to re-sign some potentially curical big-money players (Griffin, Williams, Kerriigan, Morris, Robinson, Garcon, Reed, etc).

 

I really don't see the "plan" that I'm supposed to be impressed with.

 

I have a feeling any plan that leads to an immediate losing record would be not a real plan to you.  Had your suggestions lead to the same results, you'd hate your own plan as well.

 

In two years, some of those players either won't be on the team or will have their deals restructured.  Their deals are mostly cap friendly in that we can let some of those guys go without a horrible hit on the cap.  As for resigning players, there are going to need to be some tough decisions, but the cap does always go up, so that will help.  It is the reason why Orakpo probably won't be resigned (and I think we will miss him) and they prepared by drafting a potential replacement.  That's generally what good teams do.

 

 

For as much flak as people gave kyle for not tailoring his system to rg3, gruden's system seems even less fit for him and he's taken almost zero heat from that. It's all good and dandy to say we hired a QB guru to help the face of our franchise until you face the fact that he wants to entirely change rg3's game. Clearly hiring San Fran's or Seattle's coordinator would have made a million times more sense than someone who is apparently so uncreative and completely inflexible with his scheme that he is incapable of maximizing rg3's strengths. So was his hiring really Allen's grand scheme for our team or was it just a way to scratch the back of an old friend?

 

RG3's game needs to change if he wants to be a long-term success in the NFL.  The Shanahans did RG3 little favor in riding him hard his rookie season.  They traded success for long-term development, and now RG3s a bit behind the curve.  The read option has its uses, but watching Wilson the other night, you can see where RG3 needs to get to.

[Birdlives]

Over on the Morgan Moses thread, KDawg and I were discussing the Skins recent draft record with regard to the ol. I wanted to re-post it here....

 

 

 

I'll bet you anything if you pull the same data on defenseive line you'll find a similar, if not worse record than the offensive line. It's pathetic how rarely and terribly we draft those two, most important positions. This isn't under just one or another personnel guy, its every guy under the Snyder regime. The message obviously comes from on high that skill positions and outside players are more important because that's about all we draft.

 

People keep lauding the Hatcher signing, but the guy has been injured since we got him. This is the same plan we've always had. Ignore the offensive line, ignore the defensive line, throw away draft picks. This is the plan. It's been the plan under Snyder since he took control of the franchise.

 

You see what it gets us.

 

Good teams spend picks on O-line and D-line, they use high picks on those positions. They don't always work out, but by increasing the odds, they end up with better players and good depth on their lines. Year after year we have patchwork lines with at least 2-3 starters who should be depth. We waste cap space signing free agents instead of getting good players at a discount through the draft.

 

I'm not saying Allen should be fired now by the way. I'm saying he should have been fired with Shannahan. Now it's too late. We have to stick to this personnel group and staff for at least the next three years. It's damned frustrating because I have no faith we'll be any better off than we are now.

 

To me its not just another lost season, it another lost 3-4 years before maybe we get a chance to do things right for the first time ever under Snyder. We need a fundamental rebuild, not a partial one.

 

He needs to hire a legit, all around GM who then rebuilds the entire team. Coaching staff, personnel department, everything. Snyder needs to let that GM do everything and not even make a single suggestion. Until that happens, it'll be what we've got and what we've always had under Snyder.

 

That people are still defending Snyder, or saying we have to give this guy a chance after 15 years of mis-management is unbelievable to me. He's had 15 freaking years and still hasn't gotten it right. We're a dumpster fire. People keep saying at least we're not the Raiders, but we are the Raiders! Why should we believe this time will be different? Where's the evidence that shows that? Already we're off to a rocky start. Meanwhile teams like the Chiefs, the Eagles, The Texans, and any number of other franchises at least look respectable and many within one year; some are even winning and going to the playoffs. How long are we supposed to wait?

[SWFLSkins]

i love the people who claim Bruce is a numbers guy.  Please, anyone can do accounting. 

 

Capology for dummies, new best seller?