WP The Insider: Is Bruce Allen to blame for the Redskins' current mess?

[SWFLSkins]

 

Exactly.  It was the restructure WHICH HE WAS TOLD SPECIFICALLY NOT TO DO which got us in trouble.

 

 

Oh great the spirit of the cap raises it's ugly head just in time for halloween. 

[elkabong82]

I think this guy is Daniel Synder.

I think this post verifies what I thought of you from your last post and that's very little

Exactly. It was the restructure WHICH HE WAS TOLD SPECIFICALLY NOT TO DO which got us in trouble.

if that were true by itself then more teams would have had penalties. It was Mara trying to gain a competitive advantage. It was illegal to tell us not do it but that's not convenient to the axe you're grinding hence you always ignore it.

[chipwhich]

Oh great the spirit of the cap raises it's ugly head just in time for halloween. 

 

He check my posting, I think the whole discussion of the cap is done.  We wouldn't be a better team because Shanny had more money to spend.  The cap issue should be put to bed IMO.

[Laron Burgundy]

I believe the whole Gruden hype-train has a lot of people fooled into thinking him being a "hot commodity" meant he was a great coaching option.  Truth be told, Gruden had only ONCE had a good offense in the nfl.  And how much is Cinci missing Gruden now?  Not a bit.  It's a bad sign when fans are actually excited about their coordinator leaving, as many Cinci fans tired of Gruden's playoff tomfoolery.

 

I hope I'm wrong, but if I'm right I really hope we don't have Gruden stick around for very long (I wouldn't even mind a one and done and clean house).

[elkabong82]

Guess it's being impatient with 4 years of Shannys. We should have given him an extension just for the sake of consistency. Also, when everyone knows the GM is a joke, you shouldn't have to wait 4+ years to get rid off him.

Even if you count this as year 1 for Bruce, I'm not impressed. Retaining Haslett and Morris, top FA signing was Luavo, top 3 draft picks were selected to be backups with no shot of competing for starting job, did not upgrade safety position, signed an injury prone Porter, keeps a kicker who can't kick it out of bounds, special teams is still a mess. But yeah, lets just be patient and give him more time and draft picks to screw up.

With this current FO structure, I have no faith that we'll ever be a consistent playoff team.

I was all for firing shanny. Nowhere I did say otherwise so that's a strawman you use right off the bat. Oh boy. We are 5 games in with Bruce as gm calling the shots. 5 games. Firing him already would be a rash stupid decision and guarantee no quality coach would want to interview here or gm after such impatience. Nobody knows crap after 5 games quit pretending otherwise. Top fa signing was desean and hatcher and we didn't overpay like other teams did for example with Byrd. We made good moves. Your expectation of fixing all in one off season is nowhere in the realm of possibility so my guess is your name is meant to be ironic. And please key me know of 1 successful team with a new coach that lost its qb te cb and several others and still did well. Can't respect an opinion that relies on bs expectations and makes conclusions after only 5 games but I sure can laugh at it.

[Conn]

Oh great the spirit of the cap raises it's ugly head just in time for halloween.

It was a bull**** penalty. It was probably collusion. But it still happened on Allen's watch, and his savvy with the cap and the idea that he would bring respect from the rest of the league to our FO were his main selling points.

Oops.

[TheLongshot]

It's funny making excuses like "they didn't know if Gruden would want the job so they had to keep looking".  Comical actually.

 

I guess it's good to be young and naive.

 

As far as the "staff", the plan to keep Haslett is reminiscent of the time we hired Zorn to be our offensive coordinator prior to hiring a head coach.  We do everything bass ackwards.  If it wasn't so depressing it would be funny.

 

Good thing I'm neither. 

 

I never said it was likely, but the team would look damn foolish if they waited two weeks to interview their top candidate and he ended up not wanting the job.  (Or, going elsewhere.)

 

As for keeping Has around, there was no hurry to cut him loose and start paying him for not being here, particularly if you know your prime candidate is interested in keeping him around.  BTW, if there is anyone you should blame for Has still being here, it is Gruden.  He certainly had the option to choose someone else and didn't.

[chipwhich]

As for keeping Has around, there was no hurry to cut him loose and start paying him for not being here, particularly if you know your prime candidate is interested in keeping him around.  BTW, if there is anyone you should blame for Has still being here, it is Gruden.  He certainly had the option to choose someone else and didn't.

 

Well I don't know if that is entirely true.

[TheLongshot]

Well I don't know if that is entirely true.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/4940/gruden-explains-decision-to-retain-haslett

 

Unless you think he's lying for some reason.

[knowledge316]

I was all for firing shanny. Nowhere I did say otherwise so that's a strawman you use right off the bat. Oh boy. We are 5 games in with Bruce as gm calling the shots. 5 games. Firing him already would be a rash stupid decision and guarantee no quality coach would want to interview here or gm after such impatience. Nobody knows crap after 5 games quit pretending otherwise. Top fa signing was desean and hatcher and we didn't overpay like other teams did for example with Byrd. We made good moves. Your expectation of fixing all in one off season is nowhere in the realm of possibility so my guess is your name is meant to be ironic. And please key me know of 1 successful team with a new coach that lost its qb te cb and several others and still did well. Can't respect an opinion that relies on bs expectations and makes conclusions after only 5 games but I sure can laugh at it.

 

Get back to me in couple of years when this FO is a complete failure. Bruce Allen has no business making football decisions. Hatcher and Jackson signings were the better signings, but his #1 signing was Luavo since he was signed immediately after FA started. It's not just five games, it's his past as well. It's also what he's doing now. He retained Haslett. Next season, they will hire a new DC so the team is already behind. Anyone can see that Haslett isn't a solution at DC. His past is plenty of evidence against retaining him. 

 

This is the same type of arguments fans have every couple of years with new FO/HC. So far, the naysayers have been correct more often. And I strongly believe this is another case. So yeah, let's wait on Allen for another 2-4 years while he screws up the drafts and FAs. It is the cycle of this franchise under that incompetent buffoon Snyder.

[chipwhich]

http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/4940/gruden-explains-decision-to-retain-haslett

 

Unless you think he's lying for some reason.

 

I don't think he is lying.  What we don't know which will never be written in an article is what was discussed between 3 people.  Gruden, Snyder, and Allen.  There were a lot of discussions involved in bringing him aboard.  Gruden was probably told A LOT about why we failed under Shanny.  We know there was a lot of "noise" about Haslett being held back, etc.  Maybe Gruden was convinced by Bruce and Dan that the defensive woes were a result of Shanny control.  I don't know what he was told.  Maybe what he was told convinced him Has should stay.  We will never know.

 

What I can say with confidence is based on performance, Haslett's defensive rankings through an 18 year career don't lie.

 

I especially like this quote:

"I know a lot of offensive coaches that have a lot of respect for what coach Haslett brings, and how difficult it is to go against them. I’m one of those guys.”

 

When did he go against Haslett as a defensive coordinator?  Oh and what coordinators fear going against us LOL

 

It's funny to me that we see the same ol defense we saw under Shanny.  Haslett hasn't changed his stripes.  I am amused reading back:

http://www.csnwashington.com/redskinsblog/will-hasletts-uncuffed-defensive-scheme-work-redskins

[aqq]

I was all for firing shanny. Nowhere I did say otherwise so that's a strawman you use right off the bat. Oh boy. We are 5 games in with Bruce as gm calling the shots. 5 games. Firing him already would be a rash stupid decision and guarantee no quality coach would want to interview here or gm after such impatience. Nobody knows crap after 5 games quit pretending otherwise. Top fa signing was desean and hatcher and we didn't overpay like other teams did for example with Byrd. We made good moves. Your expectation of fixing all in one off season is nowhere in the realm of possibility so my guess is your name is meant to be ironic. And please key me know of 1 successful team with a new coach that lost its qb te cb and several others and still did well. Can't respect an opinion that relies on bs expectations and makes conclusions after only 5 games but I sure can laugh at it.

You said "its only been 5 games" enough times already in this post. You are arguing with fans (me included) that think that Allen has been on the job for 4.5 years and the results are unacceptable. The examples r cited in many posts you obviously disagree with.  

 

Its a shame though that many fans like you wont hold Synder accountable for hiring these guys and getting us into this mess. The way i see it are only chance is to gain a majority of support from fans and force a change. He doesnt know how to build a organization as many former employees will attest. Hopefully he is forced by fans hitting him in the wallet to hire real GM and clean house.

[TheLongshot]

When did he go against Haslett as a defensive coordinator?

 

Probably when Haslett was in New Orleans and Gruden was an assistant in Tampa Bay.

 

And you talk about words, but there is this thing called film in which he could make up his own mind.  I do think the strong finish last year by the defense did make it easier to make that decision.  Personally, we might have been in a bigger pickle with a new coordinator this year with all the injuries and young players forced to play.  Learning a new defensive system on top of that probably would have been a recepie for disaster.

[Taylor 36]

Who hired Allen??

 

This logic I'll never understand.  This logic makes Snyder untouchable.  For Snyder can hire absolute GARBAGE General Managers for the next 400 years if he lives that long (and he probably will) and everyone will also just blame the men he hired and NOT HIM FOR HIS POOR EVALUATIONS OF THE GMs he's hiring!

 

I'm not saying Bruce is bad.  No, I'm not there yet.  I need another year.  but if it goes wrong, SNYDER IS THE GUY DOING THE HIRING.  HES RESPONSIBLE FOR GETTING THE RIGHT MEN TO RUN HIS FOOTBALL ORGANIZATION.

What I'm saying does not make Snyder untouchable, it makes him understandable.  The point is that he DID hire Allen.  He DID step back from football operations and decisions as everyone has been begging him to do.  Yet, the hypocrisy rings out loud and clear as most of the people who are defending Bruce point out that this is his first year as being GM.  If Snyder would have fired him, as you and many others are suggesting, or at the minimum using as fuel for the Snyder witch-hunt pyre, the same people bashing Snyder for hiring Allen would then be hammering him for firing Allen without giving him a chance as the true GM with Shanny out of the way.  Of course, then the media would start up with its usual nonsense about how impatient Snyder is and how he fires everyone, blah, blah, blah.  I'll never understand this logic, because this logic damns Snyder no matter what he does.  Snyder got rid of Shanny after seeing how that wasn't working, and I'm sure if Bruce doesn't fix things sooner rather than later, he will be gone to.  However, if Snyder has given the keys to Bruce and is allowing him time to prove or hang himself, then Bruce is in control and HIS decisions and transactions are his to live or die by.

 

To put in a different way, if we were a top 5 team right now, no one would be giving credit to Snyder.  It would all go to Bruce and Jay because they made all the decisions.  So, when we are in the crapper, the same people making the decisions should be taking the blame.

 

 

I think some people idolize King Dan and worship him like he is some franchise football player.  He's been the one constant.  Players, Coaches, GM's come and go put that giant King Dan poster still hangs on the wall.

First, there is no "idolizing" of Snyder on my part.  However, I'm not going to dump on the guy like so many others do because they need to have someone to lynch.  People can't say that they want the owner to give up all football power and decisions and then turn around and blame the owner for football decisions that he didn't make and gave up the power to control.  Sure, Snyder has the power to fire Bruce, but as I stated above, that would only start a litany of protest of people saying that Snyder didn't give Bruce a fair chance. 

 

 

 

Is Bruce Allen to blame? This franchise has been in a mess for 20+ years. At some point you run out of people to blame and it all goes back to the owner. What is the Redskins record ever since Snyder took over? I know it's wayyyyyy below .500. I'm done blaming other people. And I'm 100% back to blaming Snyder. But really it doesn't matter. Snyder will be the owner until he dies. We'll suck year in and year out until 2050 or something. Oh don't get me wrong we'll continue to make the playoffs every 5 years or so, just enough winning to keep us fans around.  

Snyder hasn't owned the team for 20 years, and to suggest that he is the reason that the team has sucked for so long is asinine.  Has he been part of the issue, yes at times, but he is not the sole reason for the team's issues. This team went down-hill in a flash once Gibbs left under the ownership of Jack Kent Cooke, whom so many seem to idolize around these parts.  As a matter of fact, if you look at this team under Cooke's ownership, you'd see outside of Gibbs I, which was Bethard's decision and hire, not Cooke's, and Cooke wanted to fire Gibbs but was stopped by Bethard, you'd see that the Redskins did not fare-well then either.  As a matter of fact, from the time that Cooke bought 25% of the team in 1961 until the time he died, the Redskins only won the division 1 time not counting the Gibb years, and  outside of the Gibb years, only made the playoffs (and remember there were 3 NFC Wild Card teams during this time period) 5 times in 24 years (taking the 12 Gibb years out).  Snyder's ownership has already seen 4 playoff berths and two division titles.  Now, to be fair, if we remove Snyder's Gibb years, he still has two Division titles under his ownership.

 

Now, I'm not saying Snyder is the best owner ever, but he truly is not as bad as some try to make him out to be.

[chipwhich]

Probably when Haslett was in New Orleans and Gruden was an assistant in Tampa Bay.

 

And you talk about words, but there is this thing called film in which he could make up his own mind.  I do think the strong finish last year by the defense did make it easier to make that decision.  Personally, we might have been in a bigger pickle with a new coordinator this year with all the injuries and young players forced to play.  Learning a new defensive system on top of that probably would have been a recepie for disaster.

 

There is thing thing called stats which show how his defenses have been ranked.  There is also logic.  What teams fear going against a Haslett defense?  I know I could run down a list of defensive coordinators I would fear in this league.  Haslett isn't one of them.

 

As far as being in a "bigger pickle", you mean we could be in worse shape than we are?  I would take my chances.

 

But hey, enjoy it while it lasts, at least you are satisfied with the choices that have been made this year.  That's a good thing for you. 

 

[Brokenstriker]

that article sucks ... Allen may or may not have done some stupid things ... but the impact of the GM like position isn't usually seen in the next season ... we're still suffering from the Shanahan-era and those that preceeded it.  I think Allen is screwing up by not making the O Line a priority.  I'd love to see 2 each of the next top 3 rounds go to plug-in starter or back-up/start next season O-Linemen draft picks.

 

But Allen didn't get hurt playing QB, TE or for that matter CB.  There's a top pick Safety that wasn't a reach type player who's hopefully recovering from an injury, there's significant depth at every position that didn't used to be there.  Unfortuately there's still below average starters in some positions ... right side of the O-line, Safety and MLB possibly.  We have to promising young and now starting CBs, we have excellent WRs, 2 promising TEs (if one would get healthy).

 

What's missing may be Allen's responsiblity ... but there are lots of holes that have been addressed.  There are still more though.  That frankly is the state of the Skins ... before RG3 arrived the Skins were close to nothing but holes.  Maybe 2 or 3 quality starters and then a bunch of JAGs.  What's missing now ... is a dominate O-Line, a pro-bowl MLB and/or DB, a bulldozer TE, anything of value from Orakpo, general player discipline especially on STs and something that seems like every damn team has except us ... a kicker who denies KO returns by booting the ball into the endzone seats (seriously ... is that so damn rare that we can't get one?).

 

Its depressing to do ... but if you are willing to look back at the Skins circa 2011 ... serious suckage across the board ... almost no keepers on the roster.  Need more than a few seasons to fix that ... and then they went all in for RG3 which teased but really just extended the required roster recover time due to the loss of 3 high round drafted players traded away

[elkabong82]

Get back to me in couple of years when this FO is a complete failure. Bruce Allen has no business making football decisions. Hatcher and Jackson signings were the better signings, but his #1 signing was Luavo since he was signed immediately after FA started. It's not just five games, it's his past as well. It's also what he's doing now. He retained Haslett. Next season, they will hire a new DC so the team is already behind. Anyone can see that Haslett isn't a solution at DC. His past is plenty of evidence against retaining him.

This is the same type of arguments fans have every couple of years with new FO/HC. So far, the naysayers have been correct more often. And I strongly believe this is another case. So yeah, let's wait on Allen for another 2-4 years while he screws up the drafts and FAs. It is the cycle of this franchise under that incompetent buffoon Snyder.

who was signed first or second doesn't matter. Who was signed is what's important. Naysayers have the odds with them but that doesn't excuse piss poor reasoning and child like impatience like you've been displaying. Haslett is a mistake made by gruden but other coaches he brought in are wait and see again only been 5 games. I'm glad you aren't in charge because nobody would want to work with you if you only gave them 5 games. Sad thing is you don't even realize how absurd you are.

[elkabong82]

You said "its only been 5 games" enough times already in this post. You are arguing with fans (me included) that think that Allen has been on the job for 4.5 years and the results are unacceptable. The examples r cited in many posts you obviously disagree with.

Its a shame though that many fans like you wont hold Synder accountable for hiring these guys and getting us into this mess. The way i see it are only chance is to gain a majority of support from fans and force a change. He doesnt know how to build a organization as many former employees will attest. Hopefully he is forced by fans hitting him in the wallet to hire real GM and clean house.

I'm arguing with fans so disillusioned that they are cool with posting very unintelligent things like suggesting shanahan didn't have full control and his decisions are Allen's fault. I get you're not happy with losing. Nobody is. But lashing out looking for a target in just 5 games is absurd and gives your opinion no credibility. Snyder will be around a long time so you can accept that or keep crying either way it won't change what is. We fans do have s voice and it helped get Vinny fired and snyder to back off but some can't accept that happened and are content spouting off stupid uninformed opinions to the contrary. Facts are this is Allen's first time with control over decisions and this is year 1 for gruden and 5 games in and we've faced unreal injuries that no team could surpass. I'm glad the owner is no longer impatient like you guys are otherwise we'd have the bad bad old teams and turnover of yore that you haven't learned a thing from.

[Stormy]

I don't think he is lying. What we don't know which will never be written in an article is what was discussed between 3 people. Gruden, Snyder, and Allen. There were a lot of discussions involved in bringing him aboard. Gruden was probably told A LOT about why we failed under Shanny. We know there was a lot of "noise" about Haslett being held back, etc. Maybe Gruden was convinced by Bruce and Dan that the defensive woes were a result of Shanny control. I don't know what he was told. Maybe what he was told convinced him Has should stay. We will never know.

What I can say with confidence is based on performance, Haslett's defensive rankings through an 18 year career don't lie.

I especially like this quote:

"I know a lot of offensive coaches that have a lot of respect for what coach Haslett brings, and how difficult it is to go against them. I’m one of those guys.”

When did he go against Haslett as a defensive coordinator? Oh and what coordinators fear going against us LOL

It's funny to me that we see the same ol defense we saw under Shanny. Haslett hasn't changed his stripes. I am amused reading back:

http://www.csnwashington.com/redskinsblog/will-hasletts-uncuffed-defensive-scheme-work-redskins

The great irony of this quote from Gruden, and I said it at the time it came out, was that Gruden just went up against Haslett OC vs DC not even 2 years ago. Gruden ate Haslett's lunch to the tune of nearly 500 yards of offense including one of the most embarrassing trick plays I've ever seen. I was at that game, as I'm at them all, and Haslett had no answers for anything Gruden served up, and yet he maintains it was tough going against Haslett. It just never passed the smell test, and still doesn't.

[Dissident2]

Nice try, but you missed by a large margin.  Snyder has stepped back and done EVERYTHING that the fans have wanted him to do since day one. 

 

Until he's sold the team, he hasn't done "everything" I want him to do. In fact, that's the ONLY thing I want him to do. Remove his rancid, bad karma stench from this franchise forever.

 

Then we can talk about who shares the rest of the blame.

[Birdlives]

What I'm saying does not make Snyder untouchable, it makes him understandable....  Snyder's ownership has already seen 4 playoff berths and two division titles.  Now, to be fair, if we remove Snyder's Gibb years, he still has two Division titles under his ownership.

 

Now, I'm not saying Snyder is the best owner ever, but he truly is not as bad as some try to make him out to be.

 

We've won the division once since Snyder bought the team, not twice.

 

Taking out the Gibbs years to compare ownerships is a terrible argument and makes no sense.

 

Bottom line is that Cooke had way more success than Snyder has had and that's the reality.

 

4 playoff berths since 1999 (15 years) is nothing to hang your hat on.

 

That fans point to that as some level of success is pathetic.

[elkabong82]

Don't like haslett but glad he wasn't extended. This crsp is why I hate the compost. They put nonsense out there to prey on upset fans and many fall for it every single time. Fans want Snyder held accountable I wish those same ones held the local media accountable instead of just lapping up whatever is in the saucer they put out. Playing the blame game 5 games in is trollish nonsense from the compost. Its sad this many so easily fall for it.

[Birdlives]

I'm arguing with fans so disillusioned that they are cool with posting very unintelligent things like suggesting shanahan didn't have full control and his decisions are Allen's fault....

 

This kind of statement isn't worth arguing. No one really knows what happens inside that building except those that were there. Its time for people to stop pretending like anything said in the press is stated fact.

[TheLongshot]

 

There is thing thing called stats which show how his defenses have been ranked.  There is also logic.  What teams fear going against a Haslett defense?  I know I could run down a list of defensive coordinators I would fear in this league.  Haslett isn't one of them.

 

As far as being in a "bigger pickle", you mean we could be in worse shape than we are?  I would take my chances.

 

But hey, enjoy it while it lasts, at least you are satisfied with the choices that have been made this year.  That's a good thing for you. 

 

We were a 3-13 team that well deserved that record.  My expectations weren't high. Given all the injuries, the current record shouldn't be a shock.  That being said, the defense has kept us in most of these games.  I can't say I'm completely happy with the defense, given the missed assignments at times, but much of that comes from personnel.

 

Am I satisfied?  Nope.  But there was no way all the problems of last year's team would be fixed for this year.  Too much had been ignored the past 4 years for that to happen.  We weren't going to find 3 starting OL.  We weren't going to suddenly get a stud secondary after ignoring it for years.  I do hope the OL guys, along with LeRibeus, do finally become the base for this OL.  A decent possibility they won't all, but such is the way of drafting players.

[Birdlives]

Don't like haslett but glad he wasn't extended. This crsp is why I hate the compost. They put nonsense out there to prey on upset fans and many fall for it every single time. Fans want Snyder held accountable I wish those same ones held the local media accountable instead of just lapping up whatever is in the saucer they put out. Playing the blame game 5 games in is trollish nonsense from the compost. Its sad this many so easily fall for it.

 

Oh I see you feel the same way.

 

Edit, so as not to spam the thread.

 

we are 105 and 140 under Snyder.

 

As many have stated, Allen wasn't there through all of that.

 

Neither was anyone else.

 

Except Snyder.

 

1 division title, 2 playoff wins, 4 playoff appearances, 2 years with double digit wins, 7 years with double digit losses and not one single season with more than 10 wins.

 

Snyder.