WP The Insider: Is Bruce Allen to blame for the Redskins' current mess?

[TheLongshot]

The great irony of this quote from Gruden, and I said it at the time it came out, was that Gruden just went up against Haslett OC vs DC not even 2 years ago. Gruden ate Haslett's lunch to the tune of nearly 500 yards of offense including one of the most embarrassing trick plays I've ever seen. I was at that game, as I'm at them all, and Haslett had no answers for anything Gruden served up, and yet he maintains it was tough going against Haslett. It just never passed the smell test, and still doesn't.

 

Just as a note, the starting safety duo in that game was Doughty and Gomes, neither of which are playing in the league anymore.

[Dissident2]

Here's the thing about Snyder that a lot of people don't get. It's not a matter of him just "stepping back" and letting "football people" run the organization. It's not that simple. It's about the tone he sets within the organization as the leader. And make no mistake, he may not be taking as big a role these days in picking players, but he's as hands-on as ever when it comes to running the organization.

 

He sets a terrible tone that trickles all the way down. I've heard plenty of stories from people who've worked out there who talk about the terrible environment in that building, how it's about as far from a "family, all-in-it-together" environent as you could get. It's a classic trickle-down effect. You hire managers and treat them like garbage, they end up treating their staff like garbage, etc., etc. I have no doubt he inspires similar feelings in his coaching staff and some of the players. People try to perform out of fear of losing their job, not out of pride or out of wanting to look out for the guy next to them. It's a terrible organization for many reasons, but FIRST AND FOREMOST, it's a terrible organization because of a TERRIBLE owner who treats people terribly.

[Taylor 36]

We've won the division once since Snyder bought the team, not twice.

 

Taking out the Gibbs years to compare ownerships is a terrible argument and makes no sense.

 

Bottom line is that Cooke had way more success than Snyder has had and that's the reality.

 

4 playoff berths since 1999 (15 years) is nothing to hang your hat on.

 

That fans point to that as some level of success is pathetic.

Twice we've won the division under his ownership: 1999 and 2012.  I took out the Gibb's years for both of them to show the record of the team without a Hall of Fame head coach, and to also eliminate the one coach they had in common.  The difference is that Snyder chose to hire Gibbs where Cooke didn't and even wanted to fire him.  Yet, Cooke gets credit for being a great owner BECAUSE of the Gibb's years, when it wasn't even his decision.  Taking away that part of his ownership shows how he really has nothing to hang his hat on above Snyder, and that was even with another HOF coach in Allen.  Again, for 36 years Cooke was at least a minority owner of the team, most of it he was majority owner or outright owner.  In that time he did NOT have "way more success" than Snyder has had as owner.  And for the record, I never pointed to Snyder's record or ownership as success, but facts don't seem to be a strong point for you anyway.

[Dissident2]

The difference is that Snyder chose to hire Gibbs where Cooke didn't and even wanted to fire him.  Yet, Cooke gets credit for being a great owner BECAUSE of the Gibb's years, when it wasn't even his decision.

 

Are you serious with this? Really? You're comparing Snyder hiring a three-time SB-winning legend to Cooke hiring an unproven assistant who'd never been a head coach before. REALLY?

 

And yes, it WAS Cooke's decision to hire Gibbs. He may have had reservations, but he ultimately took the advice of Beatherd and gave Gibbs a chance. He didn't "want to" fire Gibbs. He thought about it after that start, like anyone would have, but he dealt with Gibbs like a man and decided to give him time to prove himself. His wisdom paid off.

 

No one's saying Cooke was perfect. But he knew how to run a football team and he knew how to inspire loyalty in the people who worked for him.

[Taylor 36]

Here's the thing about Snyder that a lot of people don't get. It's not a matter of him just "stepping back" and letting "football people" run the organization. It's not that simple. It's about the tone he sets within the organization as the leader. And make no mistake, he may not be taking as big a role these days in picking players, but he's as hands-on as ever when it comes to running the organization.

 

He sets a terrible tone that trickles all the way down. I've heard plenty of stories from people who've worked out there who talk about the terrible environment in that building, how it's about as far from a "family, all-in-it-together" environent as you could get. It's a classic trickle-down effect. You hire managers and treat them like garbage, they end up treating their staff like garbage, etc., etc. I have no doubt he inspires similar feelings in his coaching staff and some of the players. People try to perform out of fear of losing their job, not out of pride or out of wanting to look out for the guy next to them. It's a terrible organization for many reasons, but FIRST AND FOREMOST, it's a terrible organization because of a TERRIBLE owner who treats people terribly.

Plese enlighten us with how you know this.  How often are you at Redskins Park, in meetings, in the locker room?  Almost every player has shown support for Snyder and how he does treat them like family: allowing players to use his personal plane to go to or to get sick family members, flying the team to Sean Taylor's funeral, offering help boht finacially and with finding the best doctors for people like Cooley's mom when she was diagnosed with cancer.  So, again, I ask where do you get your information from?

[Birdlives]

Twice we've won the division under his ownership: 1999 and 2012.  I took out the Gibb's years for both of them to show the record of the team without a Hall of Fame head coach, and to also eliminate the one coach they had in common.  The difference is that Snyder chose to hire Gibbs where Cooke didn't and even wanted to fire him.  Yet, Cooke gets credit for being a great owner BECAUSE of the Gibb's years, when it wasn't even his decision.  Taking away that part of his ownership shows how he really has nothing to hang his hat on above Snyder, and that was even with another HOF coach in Allen.  Again, for 36 years Cooke was at least a minority owner of the team, most of it he was majority owner or outright owner.  In that time he did NOT have "way more success" than Snyder has had as owner.  And for the record, I never pointed to Snyder's record or ownership as success, but facts don't seem to be a strong point for you anyway.

 

lol, whatever. Snyder took over in 1999 a team built and run by the Estate, Casserly, and Turner. He made no wholesale changes, but if you want to give him credit for that division title, fine. Cooke as minority own is a BS argument and you know it.

 

You also give no credit to Cooke for doing what he did with Beatherd and Gibbs and while he WANTED to fire Gibbs, he didn't, he let the GM run the show. In doing that, he had more success than Snyder. I love how you want to give no credit to Cooke and put little blame on Snyder. The choices these men made led to wholly different outcomes. One guy won three Superbowls under his ownership and one guy makes the playoffs every five or six years.

 

Keep the insults coming though, they make for compelling, thought provoking debate.

[knowledge316]

who was signed first or second doesn't matter. Who was signed is what's important. Naysayers have the odds with them but that doesn't excuse piss poor reasoning and child like impatience like you've been displaying. Haslett is a mistake made by gruden but other coaches he brought in are wait and see again only been 5 games. I'm glad you aren't in charge because nobody would want to work with you if you only gave them 5 games. Sad thing is you don't even realize how absurd you are.

 

What's sad is that you don't even realize how absurd you are. During any FA, teams always go after their first priority. No one waits around for their top options, they always want the first chance to negotiate. So yes, Luavao was his top option. As far as blaming Haslett on Gruden, I'm sure Allen didn't convince Gruden AT ALL. 

 

Again, I'm not going to argue with you anymore. I have no choice in how many years Allen gets and my opinion doesn't matter in how the team is being run. All I know is this FO, with its current structure, will fail and I don't need to play the wait and see game. 

[Brokenstriker]

We've won the division once since Snyder bought the team, not twice.

 

Taking out the Gibbs years to compare ownerships is a terrible argument and makes no sense.

 

Bottom line is that Cooke had way more success than Snyder has had and that's the reality.

 

4 playoff berths since 1999 (15 years) is nothing to hang your hat on.

 

That fans point to that as some level of success is pathetic.

Cooke also didn't have free agency for much of that time ... or a salary cap.  He could spend as much money as he wanted on quality players ... and he did.  He for what ever reason hired an exceptional GM which no doubt helped ... but man o man was it sweet to see starting quality back-ups come in at ... well just about every position on the team.  Hell he has Jurgenson, Kilmer and Theismann on the same roster. 

[Taylor 36]

Are you serious with this? Really? You're comparing Snyder hiring a three-time SB-winning legend to Cooke hiring an unproven assistant who'd never been a head coach before. REALLY?

 

And yes, it WAS Cooke's decision to hire Gibbs. He may have had reservations, but he ultimately took the advice of Beatherd and gave Gibbs a chance. He didn't "want to" fire Gibbs. He thought about it after that start, like anyone would have, but he dealt with Gibbs like a man and decided to give him time to prove himself. His wisdom paid off.

 

No one's saying Cooke was perfect. But he knew how to run a football team and he knew how to inspire loyalty in the people who worked for him.

Again, you prove that you don't know any of the facts about this team.  There have been several documentaries where Bethard came out and said that he had to convince Cooke to not only hire Gibbs, but not to fire him.  Cooke absolutely wanted him fired.  The whole premise of this thread is about blame, and whether the Bruce should get the blame or not.  My argument from the beginning is that Bruce is responsible for his decisions, while others have argued that it is Snyder's fault because he hired Bruce.  I am showing the faulty logic in that thinking by comparing Cooke, so many people's Owner of Worship with the same decision making process that is happeneing now and how hypocritical is.  So, yes, I am serious about this.  And , you can try to make light of it by pointing out that Gibbs was a three-timing SB winning coach, but Snyder has even been criticised for bringing him back with that track record.  Again, it is more proof that people want to crucify Snyder no matter what he does.  Thank you for helping me make my point!

[Voice_of_Reason]

VoR, I'm going to start this off by saying that you're one of my favs on here but I do have some disagreements with some things here.

Feeling is mutual.  

 

Here's my loyal opposition:

 

1. There is something to be said for the quick turnaround point. However, my point is that at times your boss has to save you from yourself.  It's part of their job.  And Bruce needed to see that the problems with the defense weren't just personnel, though that was a part of it.  And again, while I've made the case that Haslett has been hamstring a bunch, and I'm far, far, far from his harshest critic, when the results are what the results have been for 4 years, I think it was up to Bruce to let him and Morris go at the same time as Shanahan.  It also starts to instill some degree of accountability when guys who haven't performed are shown the door, regardless of past affiliation.  

 

2. I understand the thought on keeping your draft picks.  However, the problem I have is not necessarily with Orakpo, but the plan.  If you sign Orakpo, but then don't know how you're going to get him and Kerrigan rush opportunities, it's a bad plan.  Orakpo is better in coverage than Kerrigan, so he drops off into coverage more.  So, why are you paying top-dollar for a pass-rushing specialist if you can't figure out how to rush him on most downs?  Makes no sense to me.  It's Bruce's job to know what the plan for Orakpo is, how often he's going to be used in pass-rushing situations, what that means to Kerrigan, etc.  For me, this is less about one player and more about the overall roster, which is where I fault Allen. 

 

3. OL. We agree.  I just don't think they made it a focus this off-season.  The guys they brought in were all has-been and never-gonna-bes, or developmental guys. They needed to bring in at least 2 guys who could come in and immediately be considered as competition for starting RT and RG, and they failed to it. 

 

4. I love the fact that we drafted a lot of guys, and got good value.  My theoretical point is simply that every guy we drafted was behind a guy that they weren't in a position to beat out this year.  And that's a problem for a team coming off of a 3-13 season.  Less of a problem for a team coming off of a 13-3 season.

 

5. HC/OC thing.  Again, I agree that the HC should be able to choose their guys, but again, sometimes it's your Job's boss to save you from yourself.  The difference with SF is that Harbaugh was a HC previously at a high level, even if it wasn't the NFL, and I don't believe he calls plays.  I like McVay, I just think that in this situation, it puts undue pressure on Gruden.  Same mistake was made with Zorn.  The minute they hired him as HC, they should have gotten him a proven OC. There are very few instances where a first time HC acting as the play-caller/OC works.  Mike Shanahan in Denver and Sean Payton in NOLA are about the only two examples I can think of.  

 

6. Secondary. I'll concede the point, kindof. I was glad they didn't overspend.  But the way they have architected the secondary over a long period of time has been criminal.  Allen only get's 1 year probation for not being able to fix it immediately.

 

7. Kicker. And here I completely disagree with you.  Love he found the punter.  And that he drafted a kicker.  But then he cut the kicker to go with the same guy who can't get touchbacks, and who hurt himself, again.  And didn't immediately cut Forbath and go back to the guy who he drafted.  I'll give him an A for effort, but a C- for execution.  And it shouldn't take years to fix the kicker situation.  It's 1 guy.  

 

8. Scouting Dept. Ok, I'll hang on on that one, but I'm really not all that sold. 

 

9. Maybe this is more of a perception thing, but if that's the case, they need to come out and say it.  I do think an outside perspective would have been good, though.  One thing, it's very easy to go native in losing environments.  Where even good guys pick up bad habits, because that's what's going on. 

 

10. I thought then, and think now, that the interview process was a sham.  They knew who they were going to hire before it started regardless of all the other interviews. I'm glad that they talked to the other coaches, and didn't just wait for the Bengals to lose to hire Gruden.  But, unless there was a legitimate shot that they would have hired somebody else, the interview process was flawed.  

 

I actually think under Snyder, there has only been 1 interview process that was actually a process:

 

Marty wasn't a process.  Snyder wanted somebody with clout after Norv, found the highest profile unemployed coach, and hired him.

Spurrier wasn't a process.  Snyder wanted Spurrier above all, and fired Marty to get to him.

Gibbs wasn't a process.  It was Gibbs. (Didn't need a process.)

Zorn was a process.  I believe that they talked to a bunch of guys...

Shanahan wasn't a process.  Snyder wanted Shanahan from the get-go.

Gruden wasn't a process.  Bruce interviewed guys until the Bengals lost, then hired Gruden 2-3 days later. 

 

Look, I'm not suggesting that Bruce should be fired, isn't the right guy, won't get things turned around, and doesn't deserve more time.

 

My post was specifically in regards to the things that I think Bruce controlled AFTER he was given full control of football operations.  There have been a few good things as well: Signing Hatcher, having the foresight not to blow all of their cap room up front so they could go after DJax, a much calmer off-season, and some of the other player moves that have paid off.

 

But there are still things that he could have done differently, and might have been more productive.

[Dissident2]

Plese enlighten us with how you know this.

 

LOL. No.

 

Besides, what I've suggested is far from newsworthy. There are TONS of stories about Snyder's mistreatment of "peons" out there. Couple all those damning stories with how he's turned a once proud and revered organization into an embarrassment and an irrelevant, perpetual laughing stock, and you have all you need to understand where the source of the suck springs from.

 

Snyder: The Source of the Suck.

 

Make t-shirts.

[Birdlives]

And here I thought you got your information from the same place all those people who know for a fact that Snyder doesn't interfere anymore, Dissident2.

[Dissident2]

Again, you prove that you don't know any of the facts about this team.  There have been several documentaries where Bethard came out and said that he had to convince Cooke to not only hire Gibbs, but not to fire him.  Cooke absolutely wanted him fired.  The whole premise of this thread is about blame, and whether the Bruce should get the blame or not.  My argument from the beginning is that Bruce is responsible for his decisions, while others have argued that it is Snyder's fault because he hired Bruce.  I am showing the faulty logic in that thinking by comparing Cooke, so many people's Owner of Worship with the same decision making process that is happeneing now and how hypocritical is.  So, yes, I am serious about this.  And , you can try to make light of it by pointing out that Gibbs was a three-timing SB winning coach, but Snyder has even been criticised for bringing him back with that track record.  Again, it is more proof that people want to crucify Snyder no matter what he does.  Thank you for helping me make my point!

 

LOL. NO ONE criticized Snyder for bringing Gibbs back. It was utter euphoria in this town when he brought him back. I cried. Some people might have questioned Gibbs' abilities after a couple seasons, but now they look back and realize how good of a job he DID do under this pathetic organizational structure.

 

Your argument about Cooke is asinine. Cooke could've fired Gibbs any time he wanted to. He also could've refused to hire him. He didn't do either of those things. It was HIS decision to hire Gibbs, and it was HIS decision to keep him after 0-5. Just ask Joe Gibbs. I've heard Gibbs talk about it in person. Cooke called him into his office after 0-5, they had a heart-to-heart, and Cooke allowed him the chance to prove himself. You have no clue what you're talking about, and the only "point" you continue to prove is that one, which I am indeed glad to help you make.

[Stormy]

Just as a note, the starting safety duo in that game was Doughty and Gomes, neither of which are playing in the league anymore.

The personnel changes, but Haslett's incompetence stays the same. Doughty and Gomes weren't the starting safeties last year when Aaron Rodgers had the best game of his storied career against a Haslett defense, nor were they the starters the past 3 weeks when 3 consecutive QBs put up season high QB ratings versus our secondary. The apologetics for a guy who has spent his whole career as a bottom 1/3 defensive coordinator are silly, in my opinion. He's in year 5 here, he owns this mess.

Gruden deserves plenty of time. Allen deserves at least some time. Haslett should be gone yesterday.

[Taylor 36]

lol, whatever. Snyder took over in 1999 a team built and run by the Estate, Casserly, and Turner. He made no wholesale changes, but if you want to give him credit for that division title, fine. Cooke as minority own is a BS argument and you know it.

 

You also give no credit to Cooke for doing what he did with Beatherd and Gibbs and while he WANTED to fire Gibbs, he didn't, he let the GM run the show. In doing that, he had more success than Snyder. I love how you want to give no credit to Cooke and put little blame on Snyder. The choices these men made led to wholly different outcomes. One guy won three Superbowls under his ownership and one guy makes the playoffs every five or six years.

 

Keep the insults coming though, they make for compelling, thought provoking debate.

If you took my comments as an insult, I apologize, but the facts are that Snyder owned the team when we won the division in 1999.  Sure he had bought the team in the offseason prior, but he was owner then.

 

It's not that I'm not that I'm trying to take away credit from Cooke, but, again Cooke hired a great GM and let him do all the work.  He interjected many times, but Bobby was left to do his thing.  Sure, Cooke deserves credit for hiring Bethard, but Bethard's decisions are what led to the Glory Years.  However, when the conversation comes up, people try to make it out that Cooke was solely responsible as owner, which is not the case.  Without Bethard, Cooke's track record as owner of the Redskins is nothing to brag about.  If Bethard wouldn't have gotten Gibbs or worked out, would people have called Cooke out for that, or would they have placed the blame on Bethard's shoulders though most seem to forget him when speaking of the glory?

 

Now, flash forward to now, with this thread and the debate going on within.  Bruce Allen may turn out to be a bad hire as a GM.  I honestly have my doubts and have since the beginning of the offseason.  Regardless, Snyder has finally hired a GM to run the show, and I'm sure he interjects from time to time like Cooke and most owners, but from all accounts, he is allowing Bruce to do his thing as Cooke allowed Bethard.  If the Redskins turn it around, I guarantee you that many will give all the credit to Bruce, unlike they did with Cooke.  If Bruce fails, well I don't even have to tell you because it has already started.  Many will pile on Snyder.  We can't have it both ways.  That's my point.

 

Now, If Snyder could find his Bethard, which I pray he will, in the end, he could end up with a much better record than Cooke as owner.  Again, that was my point in taking away the Gibbs I days.  Cooke's record as owner is on par, actually a little below, with Snyder's.  Yet, many want to act like Snyder is the worst owner that ever existed and Cooke is beyond reproach.  Both let their guys do their jobs and make the decisions.  Ultimately, it lies on Bruce's shoulders.  If my boss allows gives me a project to complete and all the resources and autonomy I ask for in order to complete that project, than if that project fails, it is on me.

[chipwhich]

Facts are this is Allen's first time with control over decisions and this is year 1 for gruden and 5 games in and we've faced unreal injuries that no team could surpass. I'm glad the owner is no longer impatient like you guys are otherwise we'd have the bad bad old teams and turnover of yore that you haven't learned a thing from.

 

You seem to spout a lot of nonsense and tend to miss the forest for the trees.  You were probably also one of those people claiming all was right with the franchise when Shanny and Bruce were hired.

This isn't a "patience" issue.  Some of us believe Bruce Allen isn't right for the job.  My opinion isn't based on 5 games.  My opinion is based on a number of things collectively.  You are free to have your opinion, which apparently is this is Bruce Allen's first year as a GM, give him a chance.  That's your opinion.  Don't be rude to others because your opinion isn't the same as theirs.  Send apologies when this fails, kk?

[Taylor 36]

LOL. No.

 

 

Don't make statements like that if you can't back them up.  That is part of posting on this message board.  Don't believe, check out the board rules or speak to a mod.

 

 

LOL. NO ONE criticized Snyder for bringing Gibbs back. It was utter euphoria in this town when he brought him back. I cried. Some people might have questioned Gibbs' abilities after a couple seasons, but now they look back and realize how good of a job he DID do under this pathetic organizational structure.

 

 

You obviously weren't around these parts then, because there was a LOT of criticising for that move during and after.  You are right though about some people looking back and realizing now how much Gibbs II accomplished, but it was not all bells and whistles around here.

[chipwhich]

We were a 3-13 team that well deserved that record.  My expectations weren't high. Given all the injuries, the current record shouldn't be a shock.  That being said, the defense has kept us in most of these games.  I can't say I'm completely happy with the defense, given the missed assignments at times, but much of that comes from personnel.

 

Am I satisfied?  Nope.  But there was no way all the problems of last year's team would be fixed for this year.  Too much had been ignored the past 4 years for that to happen.  We weren't going to find 3 starting OL.  We weren't going to suddenly get a stud secondary after ignoring it for years.  I do hope the OL guys, along with LeRibeus, do finally become the base for this OL.  A decent possibility they won't all, but such is the way of drafting players.

 

You love to straddle the fence LOL.  I don't disagree with the fact that our roster has been allowed to be depleted.  That's not the issue for me.  I know we need to rebuild, the moves we made don't say as much.

[Taylor 36]

 

You love to straddle the fence LOL.  I don't disagree with the fact that our roster has been allowed to be depleted.  That's not the issue for me.  I know we need to rebuild, the moves we made don't say as much.

 

Chip, I'm with you in that I was worried about Bruce becoming the GM from the beginning, and then when Haslett was retained and all of the friends were reunited here I got very nervous, but I do have to give Bruce a break in that the first four years, Shanny was the one running the show as far as the personel moves we made.  I try my best to be patient (not always a strong suit for me ) and try to remember that we still had the last pick loss of the RGIII deal to give up this year, and that it isn't always fair to judge a draft class until after a couple of seasons have passed.  So, though I am very doubtful about him as the GM, I feel he should get another offseason and a full draft to prove if he has it in him or not.  That's just me. Are you of the opinion we should just cut ties with Bruce at the end of the season?  What about Gruden?

[chipwhich]

Chip, I'm with you in that I was worried about Bruce becoming the GM from the beginning, and then when Haslett was retained and all of the friends were reunited here I got very nervous, but I do have to give Bruce a break in that the first four years, Shanny was the one running the show as far as the personel moves we made.  I try my best to be patient (not always a strong suit for me ) and try to remember that we still had the last pick loss of the RGIII deal to give up this year, and that it isn't always fair to judge a draft class until after a couple of seasons have passed.  So, though I am very doubtful about him as the GM, I feel he should get another offseason and a full draft to prove if he has it in him or not.  That's just me. Are you of the opinion we should just cut ties with Bruce at the end of the season?  What about Gruden?

 

I actually like Gruden.  I feel like he is the first coach to come in and quickly realize the mess he has on his hands and knows we need some real change.  I am not saying Bruce needs to be fired, but I do think we need to bring in someone to "architect" a team.

[TheLongshot]

 

I actually like Gruden.  I feel like he is the first coach to come in and quickly realize the mess he has on his hands and knows we need some real change.  I am not saying Bruce needs to be fired, but I do think we need to bring in someone to "architect" a team.

 

 

In my view, that's a partnership between the head coach and the FO.  FO hires a head coach that fits their vision for a team.  The head coach handles the details and the FO tries to get the players that fulfill that vision.  Most successful teams have this partnership.

 

So, techincally, Gruden is the architect, so to speak.  It is up to the personnel department to find the players to fit what he wants to do on the field.  That is less about Bruce and more about Campbell.

[chipwhich]

In my view, that's a partnership between the head coach and the FO.  FO hires a head coach that fits their vision for a team.  The head coach handles the details and the FO tries to get the players that fulfill that vision.  Most successful teams have this partnership.

 

So, techincally, Gruden is the architect, so to speak.  It is up to the personnel department to find the players to fit what he wants to do on the field.  That is less about Bruce and more about Campbell.

 

The reason we are where we are is because with every coach we have had, the coach has been the architect.  We need an architect at a higher level.  As an example, Ozzie Newsome in Baltimore decided years ago that Baltimore would be a good defensive team.  He builds and drafts every year with that in mind.  We don't have any vision here.  Our approach to team building goes like this.  Defensive line needs upgrading, lets sign a free agent.  We need safeties, sign free agents.  We need offensive lineman, sign a free agent.  Nobody is smart enough to know we need to rebuild.  We just keep patching the same old tire and hoping it holds air.

[Brokenstriker]

what I want to see Allen or whoever do next is go o-line ... o-line ... o-line ... o-line

 

and suddenly our RB, QB, WR and TEs are all much much much better ... really good even.  Potentially world class.

 

Instead since the end of the Hogs and the new ownership eta ... the org seems to go 0-line ... 0-line ... 0-line etc.

 

I guess I do blame that on Allen ... and I'll blame it on whoever is in that position until they do something about the o-line ... something freaking excellent ... #1 picks or sleeper pro-bowlers, young, uninjured big nasties baby.  Makes everything else much more better!

[knowledge316]

 

The reason we are where we are is because with every coach we have had, the coach has been the architect.  We need an architect at a higher level.  As an example, Ozzie Newsome in Baltimore decided years ago that Baltimore would be a good defensive team.  He builds and drafts every year with that in mind.  We don't have any vision here.  Our approach to team building goes like this.  Defensive line needs upgrading, lets sign a free agent.  We need safeties, sign free agents.  We need offensive lineman, sign a free agent.  Nobody is smart enough to know we need to rebuild.  We just keep patching the same old tire and hoping it holds air.

 

 

I agree. The FO has changed the system so often that it becomes hard to actually build a team. Marty power game to Spurrier's pitch and toss to Gibbs power run to Zorn's whatever that was to Shanny's ZB, WC to Gruden's WC. There's no plan there by the FO when you change systems so often.

 

We definitely need a football guy in the FO to set the plan to build a team with X and X and go out and find players/coaches that can do those things.  

[TheLongshot]

 

The reason we are where we are is because with every coach we have had, the coach has been the architect.  We need an architect at a higher level.  As an example, Ozzie Newsome in Baltimore decided years ago that Baltimore would be a good defensive team.  He builds and drafts every year with that in mind.  We don't have any vision here.  Our approach to team building goes like this.  Defensive line needs upgrading, lets sign a free agent.  We need safeties, sign free agents.  We need offensive lineman, sign a free agent.  Nobody is smart enough to know we need to rebuild.  We just keep patching the same old tire and hoping it holds air.

 

 

Well, we did with Shanahan.  The problem with a veteran coach being in charge like that is that they are all about winning now and don't care much for the future.  So, they try to take short cuts that end up costing us more in the end.  It is why I hated getting Shanahan, because it likely meant the return of the same problems we had under Gibbs, and it was true to a lesser degree.  The draft was still important, but we still had stupid crap like the McNabb trade. We also had RG3 getting hurt in a playoff game that he should have been pulled from.

 

I do think Allen has a vision with the selection of Gruden: they wanted a very QB-oriented coach to work on the franchise, RG3. Course, the last time we tried that, we got Zorn, but Gruden looks much better than that.