WP The Insider: Is Bruce Allen to blame for the Redskins' current mess?

[chipwhich]

This thread has turned into a strawman and moving the goal posts.      It's hard to debate both of those

[TheLongshot]

Oh, wonderful. Another straw man. I never said a word about "breaking the cap". I said we are taking from the future to pay for the present and have spelled out how we are doing it. 

 

So, basically you are against the standard NFL contract?  Because that's the way most NFL contracts are done.  Multiyear deals with a signing bonus of guaranteed money that is spread out over the life of the contract with years that aren't likely to be executed.

 

Dead money on the salary cap is something that happens to every team, not just us.  The dead money the Redskins are currently carrying is about average for the league.

[Thinking Skins]

Released, in which case they will count a chunk against our cap in 2016 while no longer being here. Hence, the Redskins use their 2016 cap to pay for players to be here in 14-15;

C) Kept but restructured. In such case, the players will likely still have higher cap hits in 16 than 14, but will kept lower than it could have been by pushing some cap hits further into the future. Hence, the Redskins will probably have a little less cap space in 2016, but even less in future years, in exchange for having more in 14.

 

Any of those possibilities represents borrowing from the future to pay for the present. It's frankly just dumb for a team in our circumstance, but more to the point, it is the opposite of a 'long-term plan'.

Their contracts are so that they do not need to be restructured.

For comparison's sake, lets look at some of Vinny's bad contracts:

http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2010/7/2/1549043/same-old-washington-redskins

2000

Deion Sanders - 7 years, $56 million

Jeff George - 4 years, $18.25 million

Bruce Smith - 5 years, $23 million

Mark Carrier - 5 years, $15.9

2001 - In Marty Schottenheimer's only year as the Redskins' head coach, the Redskins opt to lick their wounds after the disaster free agent class of 2000.

2002 - In Steve Spurrier's first year, the Redskins overpay for Jeremiah Trotter and Renaldo Wynn, take a more modest chance on Jessie Armstead, and a couple of Spurrier's former WR's from Florida in Reidel Anthoy and Jacquez Green (not listed) to smaller contracts.

Jeremiah Trotter - 7 years, $36 million

Jessie Armstead - 3 years, $4.5 million

Renaldo Wynn - 6 years, $21 million

2003 -This was the year of the Jetskins, because the Redskins signed away 4 Jets, which included Randy Thomas, Lavenanues Coles, Chad Morton, and John Hall. Coles and Morton were restricted free agents, so we'll get to them in the "Redskins Trades" section, since they had to part with picks to acquire them. Matt Bowen was also a restricted free agent acquired from the Packers in 2003.

Randy Thomas - 7 years, $28 million

2004 - Lot's of bad trades this year (I'll get to those below), and basically a new defense via free agency. The Redskins signed Shawn Springs, Cornelius Griffin, Marcus Washington, and Phillip Daniels. Unfortunately, after a long, annoying search, I couldn't find Daniels' contract details.

Shawn Springs - 6 years, $30 million

Cornelius Griffin - 6 years, $25.5 million

Marcus Washington - 6 years, $24 million

Phillip Daniels

2005 - Snyder once again signs a player (this time Rabach) on the first day of free agency, although this year is much calmer than most.

Casey Rabach - 5 year, $13.75 million

David Patten - 5 years, $13 million

2006 - Andre Carter... OK. The others... Ew. Plus, the Skins made horrible trades for Brandon Lloyd and TJ Duckett (which again, I'll get to below)

Adam Archuleta - 6 year, $30 million (at the time making him the highest paid safety ever)

Antwaan Randle El - 7 years, $31 million

Andre Carter - 6 years, $30 million

2007 - One great signing (Fletcher), and a major overpay to a mediocre corner with little value after the Minnesota hooker boat scandal.

London Fletcher -- 5 years, $25 million

Fred Smoot - 5 years, $25 million

2008 - A terrible trade for Jason Taylor aside, nothing of note whatsoever during the offseason, although they signed Deangelo Hall to a one-year deal after he was cut by the Raiders during the season. I'll include his re-signing in the 2009 column.

2009- Disaster. The Skins give an insane amount of money to a head case, $55 million to a guy that 2 teams basically gave up on in one calendar year, and $26.5 million to a mediocre guard.

Albert Haynesworth - 7 years, $100 million

DeAngelo Hall - 6 years, $55 million

Derrick Dockery - 5 years, $26.5 million

and for the trades:

2000 - So Dan Snyder, you just signed 4 over the hill vets in Deion Sanders, Bruce Smith, Jeff George, and Mark Carrier. What are you gonna do now? "I'm going to trade for Rodney Peete!"

Rodney Peete - Acquired from the Eagles for a 6th round pick. Wait (gasp!), the Eagles traded a QB within the division?!?

2003 - The Redskins went crazy in the restricted free agency period, giving away 3 picks as compensation for signing away restricted free agents, and also trading fro Trung Canidate. The result - They had 3 draft picks in 2003 - Taylor Jacobs, Derrick Dockery, and Gibran Hamdan. Woohooooo!

Laveranues Coles - Technically a restricted free agent, the Redskins signed away Coles from the Jets for 7 years, $35 million, and they had to give the Jets their 1st round pick (13th overall) as compensation.

Trung Candidate - Acquired from the Rams for a 4th round pick and G David Loverne.

Chad Morton - Also technically a restricted free agent, the Redskins signed away Morton from the Jets for 5 years, $8 million, and they had to give the Jets a 5th round pick as compensation.

Matt Bowen - Yet another restricted free agent, Bowen signed with the Redskins from the Packers. The Skins gave up a 6th round pick as compensation.

2004 - The Redskins wheel and deal like crazy, with a horrible trade/signing of Mark Brunell included...

Clinton Portis - The Redskins trade a 2nd round pick and Champ Bailey (at the time considered the best CB in the game) for Portis. They then sign Portis to an 8 year, $50.5 million contract. I've heard a lot of arguments why this was a good trade for the Redskins, but I just don't see it.

Mark Brunell - Acquired from the Jaguars for a 3rd round pick. they then signed him to a 7 year contract worth more than $43 million. Ouch.

James Thrash - Acquired from the Eagles for a 2005 5th round pick. Wait (gasp!), the Eagles trading a player within the division... Again?!?

2006 - Ugh

T.J. Duckett - The Redskins acquire T.J. Duckett in a 3-team deal. They give up a 3rd round pick.

Brandon Lloyd - The Redskins acquire Lloyd from the 49ers for a 3rd round pick in 2006, and a 4th round pick in 2007. They then sign him to a 6-year, $30 million deal. Oof.

2007

Pete Kendall - The Redskin acquire Pete Kendall from the Jets for a 4th round pick.

2008

Jason Taylor - The Redskins trade a 2nd round pick in 2009 and a 6th round pick in 2010 for Taylor.

Erasmus James - Acquired from the Vikings for a 7th round pick.

These are BAD DEALS, and they're bad not only for the value of the contract, but because inevitably most of these players were bad and didn't last here. So what happened when we got rid of them was that we had a CAP PENALTY - meaning that we had less money to spend on our own players or other free agents. Or, we'd do as you mention and renegotiate with some players to have more money.

On the contrary, the players I mention, all have reasonable contracts where we can cut them and actually SAVE MONEY. There will be no need to restructure them, and if we release them they will not "count a chunk against our cap in 2016" as you suggest. That was the Vinny way - not the Allen way.

[Thinking Skins]

Just to sum up my argument about Vinny vs Allen. Vinny would sign MASSIVE contracts where we either

A - Keep bad players on our team,

B - Cut them and take a major cap HIT

C - Renegotiate and take a hit later.

Under Allen's contracts we have three options as well

A - Keep bad players on our team

B - Cut them and use the SAVINGS to sign other players

C - There is no option C, because we have the leverage and would never renegotiate.

Think of Chris Chester. We kept him (even though he's bad) but there were arguments to cut him because we could save so much money. Same with Bowen. Those are the type of contracts we have with Jackson, Lauvau, Hatcher and Roberts. Those are the contracts we've had with almost all the guys Allen has signed.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Their contracts are so that they do not need to be restructured.

 

There are three possibilities for what happens to those contracts in the future. I laid out each of them and how they all end up being cases of borrowing from the future. You're really not addressing that and I'm not sure why you're going to such great lengths to add so much completely extraneous info.

 if we release them they will not "count a chunk against our cap in 2016" as you suggest. 

If we keep them, collectively they cost 28 mil, if we release them collectively they cost 11 mi . Either way it is a chunk of our cap.

[KDawg]

Gee and I thought it was Shanny's fault. Excuses change nothing but make everyone feel better.

Shanny, in my opinion, both helped our long term future and hurt us in the short term. He's no where near the issue that Vinny was.

[Thinking Skins]

There are three possibilities for what happens to those contracts in the future. I laid out each of them and how they all end up being cases of borrowing from the future. You're really not addressing that and I'm not sure why you're going to such great lengths to add so much completely extraneous info.

If we keep them, collectively they cost 28 mil, if we release them collectively they cost 11 mi . Either way it is a chunk of our cap.

So are you complaining about the existence of these base numbers? For DeSean Jackson, we're talking about a 2016 number of 9.25 Mil if we keep him and a cap hit of 2.5 Mil if we cut him, giving that 6.75 Mil savings number I stated earlier. But what you seem to be mad about is that Allen is signing players to contracts that have the existence of a cap hit in the first place? I mean that's how all NFL teams do it.

Seattle is paying over 8.5 mil for Red Brant, Sidney Rice, and Chris Clemons

Pitt is paying over 10 Mil for Lamarr Woodley and Wilie Colon

Carolina is paying over 16 mil for Jon Beaston, Steve Smith, James Anderson, and Jordan Gross.

Last year Denver had over 7 Mil for Elvis Dumervil DJ Williams and JD Walton

Would you also question the abilities of these GMs because they have dead space as well? Its how business is done in the NFL.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

For me, the main issue is Haslett.  How could Bruce retain him?  If it was his call, he's a total moron.  If it was Gruden's call?  Well...

 

And how we wound up with the same starting right side of the OL this year is mind blowing stuff.  Did we not draft a single freaking starter this year on either side of the ball?  All developmental guys I guess?

 

Sorry, developmental guys rounds 4-7 are okay with me.  1-3 should be used on guys that we feel are not "a year or two away".  We had three picks in 2-3 and came up with squat.  And I understand that it is too early to give up on Moses and Long.  However, it's certainly not like they are playing backup to Grimm and Jacoby.  I've got serious doubts about both.

 

I want Bruce gone, but it won't happen.  A more interesting question for me is, is Gruden tied to Bruce?  Anyway Bruce goes and Gruden stays?  Or would a new GM bring in his own coach?  You know, like most organizations do it.

 

I like Gruden.  I really do.  Can he win in spite of Snyder, Bruce, and Haslett?  Hell no.

[Rufus T Firefly]

So are you complaining about the existence of these base numbers? For DeSean Jackson, we're talking about a 2016 number of 9.25 Mil if we keep him and a cap hit of 2.5 Mil if we cut him, giving that 6.75 Mil savings number I stated earlier. But what you seem to be mad about is that Allen is signing players to contracts that have the existence of a cap hit in the first place? I mean that's how all NFL teams do it.

Seattle is paying over 8.5 mil for Red Brant, Sidney Rice, and Chris Clemons

Pitt is paying over 10 Mil for Lamarr Woodley and Wilie Colon

Carolina is paying over 16 mil for Jon Beaston, Steve Smith, James Anderson, and Jordan Gross.

Last year Denver had over 7 Mil for Elvis Dumervil DJ Williams and JD Walton

Would you also question the abilities of these GMs because they have dead space as well? Its how business is done in the NFL.

I've had enough of straw men,  so I'm done with this. I explained what I was saying enough times that anyone who wants to understand it can.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Shanny, in my opinion, both helped our long term future and hurt us in the short term. He's no where near the issue that Vinny was.

Shanahan was an OK GM, maybe a bit better. He at least had some good general tendencies (holding on to draft picks, signing younger FAs, going with higher character rookies, not back-loading contracts too much-until the penalty). Overall, decent. It was more his coaching that was the problem.

 

Sadly, that GM record is the best one we've had in the Snyder years.

[Thinking Skins]

Shanahan was an OK GM, maybe a bit better. He at least had some good general tendencies (holding on to draft picks, signing younger FAs, going with higher character rookies, not back-loading contracts too much-until the penalty). Overall, decent. It was more his coaching that was the problem.

 

Sadly, that GM record is the best one we've had in the Snyder years.

This baffles me. How can you separate Shanny and Allen over the last 4 years? And how is this offseason different than previous? We signed Garcon (5/42/11) and Morgan (2/12/7.5) to similar contracts. Same goes with Chester, Coefield, Bowen, Carriker. These contracts make Shanny an OK GM?

[Rufus T Firefly]

This baffles me. How can you separate Shanny and Allen over the last 4 years? And how is this offseason different than previous? We signed Garcon (5/42/11) and Morgan (2/12/7.5) to similar contracts. Same goes with Chester, Coefield, Bowen, Carriker. These contracts make Shanny an OK GM?

I can separate them because Shanahan  was in charge of football operations while he was here and there is no reason to believe he wasn't making the calls on all the decisions then.

 

I said he didn't back-load contracts too much before the penalty and he really didn't that I recall. Garcon, Morgan and Carriker all came after the penalty. 

[ToHailWithIt]

Shanahan was an OK GM, maybe a bit better. He at least had some good general tendencies (holding on to draft picks, signing younger FAs, going with higher character rookies, not back-loading contracts too much-until the penalty). Overall, decent. It was more his coaching that was the problem.

 

Sadly, that GM record is the best one we've had in the Snyder years.

 

I still think Mike Shanahan is the second or third at worst football mind that's been through here in the past 30-40 years. He's just WAYYYYY too petty and vindictive. There were rumors of veteran players getting deep in his doghouse for no good reason and nasty snipes through the media when he was in Denver. We all ignored those whispers because...well...he was MIKE SHANAHAN!!! Elway, Superbowls, Frozen Tundra...sorry I got off track. I think the aforementioned personality quirks and shaky character coupled with his aging and nepotism (although Kyle is a pretty darn good OC) just created a failure situation here. How can you make an enemy out of a kid that IDOLIZED you his whole life? He just got too rigid. 

[Koolblue13]

Good- our cap is fat and we have picks and money to load up on talent.

Bad- he is responsible for getting us a $36 million cap hell and dealt away an ass load of draft picks.

Proof is in the pudding and this team sucks historic balls.

If we suck next year, he goes away.

[Shanahan's Tan]

The biggest problem this team has is obviously on defense.  Despite having a horrific defense last season, they did little to nothing to address the secondary.  Adding Ryan Clark was a lame band aid.  Merriweather is OK but not a solution.  Hall is getting up and age and Amerson is still young. Adding Hatcher seems to be a good addition but the defensive line wasn't the major problem.  We can't generate CONSISTANT pressure with our LBs and adding Hatcher was suppose to help but isn't enough. Kerrigan seems to be progressing and Orakpo is overhyped.  Perry Riley can't cover a book.  And if Haslett has all his pieces he needs in place, then he needs to go.  He has done nothing to keep his job.

 

I want them to almost exclusively focus on the defense next offseason excpet maybe a couple of offensive linement that can contribute right away.

[chipwhich]

The biggest problem this team has is obviously on defense.  Despite having a horrific defense last season, they did little to nothing to address the secondary.  Adding Ryan Clark was a lame band aid.  Merriweather is OK but not a solution.  Hall is getting up and age and Amerson is still young. Adding Hatcher seems to be a good addition but the defensive line wasn't the major problem.  We can't generate CONSISTANT pressure with our LBs and adding Hatcher was suppose to help but isn't enough. Kerrigan seems to be progressing and Orakpo is overhyped.  Perry Riley can't cover a book.  And if Haslett has all his pieces he needs in place, then he needs to go.  He has done nothing to keep his job.

 

I want them to almost exclusively focus on the defense next offseason excpet maybe a couple of offensive linement that can contribute right away.

 

I have wanted to start a thread....the myth of the safety.  I don't know how many fans are naive to think the problem with our defense is not having a safety.  That ain't it.

[Voice_of_Reason]

I find it somewhat amusing that folks have turned a 180 on the cap penalty, from crying injustice and that Mara and Lurey screwed 2 division teams because they could to blaming Allen for LEGALLY, using contracts APPROVED by the commissioners office.

It's always fun to see a group turn on their own. Wait. No it's not.

There are plenty of things if to pick on with Allen. Don't try and manufacture another. The cap penalty was unjust to begin with, and the genesis was stupidity by Snyder and Vinny.

[elkabong82]

 

I have wanted to start a thread....the myth of the safety.  I don't know how many fans are naive to think the problem with our defense is not having a safety.  That ain't it.

 

 

I truly believe that the D roster, as is, could be in the top half of the league in rankings with a good DC here. Not top 6 mind you, but 10-15 range.

[illone]

Bruce inherited a steaming pile of horse dung, and quite frankly so did Gruden.

 

If you want to play the blame game, I blame Synder 100%.  It starts at the top and it's going to take more than a couple years to unwind all the bad decisions made by him and his lackeys over the years.

 

There is no culture in Washington, and that falls on the owner.

[KDawg]

I have wanted to start a thread....the myth of the safety. I don't know how many fans are naive to think the problem with our defense is not having a safety. That ain't it.

I think this is because people see the impact that a guy like Sean Taylor makes, or Troy Polamalu, or Ear Thomas. What people don't take into account is that there are less active game changing safeties in the NFL than there are game changing QBs.

Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Rivers vs. Thomas, Berry right about now. I may be forgetting someone, but that ball-hawk, smash mouth, well rounded athletic freak safety is a rarity. If you have one, they most certainly change your defense. But it's hard to get one. We were spoiled with Sean Taylor. Big time.

NFL defenses can be good without an elite safety, look at Buffalo. What good defenses NEED are defensive fronts. Line and inside backers (I count OLB as pseudo line in the 3-4).

Games are won and lost in the trenches. Our inside backers are good against run, Riley is poor in coverage. That's a glaring weakness. Our corners, especially with Hall out, are YOUNG. That doesn't help the safeties much. And with Cofield injured our DL depth hasn't been great.

That's not even speaking of the largest hole on the team: offensive line. You HAVE to win up front. I know it's popular to say, "it's a spread league, the lines don't matter as much anymore". That's, on a whole, very wrong.

[RandyHolt]

Perhaps it's turning into a spread league as a result of the difficulties associated with building an OL that can protect the franchise pocket QBs. Consistently, game in and game out. Its not easy to build an OL and it takes a major commitment. We have been half assing it, at best. 

 

Watching our OL blown up all last year, yet 4 and 5 wide shunned in its entirety, is still a head scratcher. Gruden has shown some spread, but our OL seems to have improved some vs pass pro (maybe its been opponents weak DLs) versus last year. It may well be play calling e.g. quick throws.  

 

Back OT, anyone that thinks Snyder is to blame, eventually the football folks he hires, need to prevent his mistakes. If a GM cannot tell an owner NO i am not going to spend 5 firsts on that mauler OT you saw on YouTube, he is to blame more than the owner. 

 

Snyder by all accounts has stepped back. He handed the reigns to Mike, and now to Allen. If you don't like Haslett here, blame Allen. He should have never put Gruden into position to be influenced by his retaining him.  Make an executive decision, grab the bull by the horns, and run his team. 

[cannonshogs44]

Everyone sucks

Even the Waterboy and the guy in charge of headsets

Roger that!!

[Bantu]

Perhaps it's turning into a spread league as a result of the difficulties associated with building an OL that can protect the franchise pocket QBs. Consistently, game in and game out. Its not easy to build an OL and it takes a major commitment. We have been half assing it, at best. 

 

Watching our OL blown up all last year, yet 4 and 5 wide shunned in its entirety, is still a head scratcher. Gruden has shown some spread, but our OL seems to have improved some vs pass pro (maybe its been opponents weak DLs) versus last year. It may well be play calling e.g. quick throws.  

 

Back OT, anyone that thinks Snyder is to blame, eventually the football folks he hires, need to prevent his mistakes. If a GM cannot tell an owner NO i am not going to spend 5 firsts on that mauler OT you saw on YouTube, he is to blame more than the owner. 

 

Snyder by all accounts has stepped back. He handed the reigns to Mike, and now to Allen. If you don't like Haslett here, blame Allen. He should have never put Gruden into position to be influenced by his retaining him.  Make an executive decision, grab the bull by the horns, and run his team. 

 

Sorry, but the common denominator is Snyder. The front office structure is Snyder's doing. The farce of an interview process that takes place for front office and coaching staff is Snyder's doing. The overall culture of players, coaches, and front office staff thinking they're better than they actually are is Snyder's doing. 

 

This is a marketing company that just happens to also play football. Why this concept is so hard to grasp for everyone is a mystery to me. Hopefully, the fanbase will stop being in denial and realize this. IT'S SNYDER.

[Thinking Skins]

Snyder by all accounts has stepped back. He handed the reigns to Mike, and now to Allen. If you don't like Haslett here, blame Allen. He should have never put Gruden into position to be influenced by his retaining him.  Make an executive decision, grab the bull by the horns, and run his team.

While I can't say whether Snyder has stepped back or not, I can say that I can see a change in philosophy since Allen's been here and its continued after Shanny's departure. Even with the RG3 trade we've shown more of an investment in the draft and in younger players: Check this stat out.

Guys on final roster 25 or younger (including injury settlement guys and guys brought up mid-season)

2014 - 22, with 47 starts

2013 - 27, with 113 starts

2012 - 32, with 128 starts

2011 - 28, with 115 starts

2010 - 24, with 65 starts

2009 - 25, with 98 starts

2008 - 18, with 64 starts

2007 - 15, with 82 starts

2006 - 20, with 89 starts

2005 - 20, with 73 starts

2004 - 28, with 115 starts

2003 - 25, with 119 starts

2002 - 31, with 150 starts

2001 - 19, with 106 starts

2000 - 25, with 119 starts

1999 - 19, with 154 starts

1998 - 30, with 140 starts

1997 - 27, with 117 starts

1996 - 28, with 130 starts

I've been wondering how to show the importance of the draft as well as the importance of finding UDFAs and what you see in this one is not since Casserly's years (which I admit weren't great). Even Spurrier's years whichlook great in that table are marked mainly by 4 players Chris Samuels, Lavar Aarington, Champ Bailey, and Fred Smoot. Otherwise we didn't have any kind of a system of getting youth playing time.

What you've seen since Allen joined is that we are doing this. Even though some of us wish we could replace starters on the OL or on other spots, the truth is that we have had more of an investment in finding players in the draft and in UDFA than at any other time in Snyder's regime and that shows a change at the top. The fact that it happens to coincide with Allen's coming abroad isn't a coincidence.

[Laron Burgundy]

I think this is because people see the impact that a guy like Sean Taylor makes, or Troy Polamalu, or Ear Thomas. What people don't take into account is that there are less active game changing safeties in the NFL than there are game changing QBs.

Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Rivers vs. Thomas, Berry right about now. I may be forgetting someone, but that ball-hawk, smash mouth, well rounded athletic freak safety is a rarity. If you have one, they most certainly change your defense. But it's hard to get one. We were spoiled with Sean Taylor. Big time.

NFL defenses can be good without an elite safety, look at Buffalo. What good defenses NEED are defensive fronts. Line and inside backers (I count OLB as pseudo line in the 3-4).

Games are won and lost in the trenches. Our inside backers are good against run, Riley is poor in coverage. That's a glaring weakness. Our corners, especially with Hall out, are YOUNG. That doesn't help the safeties much. And with Cofield injured our DL depth hasn't been great.

That's not even speaking of the largest hole on the team: offensive line. You HAVE to win up front. I know it's popular to say, "it's a spread league, the lines don't matter as much anymore". That's, on a whole, very wrong.

 

Don't forget Weddle in SD, but yeah, there probably aren't more than 4 impact safeties in the entire league out of 64 starters, so it's very rare.  However we could definitely get massive improvement there.  Two of our losses could have been partially prevented by just good safety play.  Not spectacular, just sound, solid play.

 

I think Riley is the only guy who sticks out as a sore thumb in the front 7.  Jenkins could definitely be upgraded but he hasn't been straight out bad.  Luckily we can replace an ilb and lde without spending huge resources. 

 

Having a top notch corner would be a help as Hall really shouldn't be a #1 at this point.

 

But overall, yes, O line is our most pressing need.  That should be one of our biggest priorities