NoCalMike Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 At this point in his career, Luck definitely exhibits more characteristics of Brett Favre than a Manning or Elway. He throws a ton, racks of volume statistics, but turns the ball over way too much for the team to advance to the next level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gortiz Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 This thread might be one of the worst on ES, and that's saying something. Dude isn't a top 10 qb in the league, let alone top 5 (or best for that matter). His stats are overinflated by playing in the weakest division in football. He certainly has the size and tools to be one of the better qbs, but, like our own Rg3=greatest threads, this one was a Biiiiiiitttttt immature haha really, he's not a 10 ten? So, if you were the GM to the Cotls and it's time to pay him ... you wouldn't give him top 10 QB money? 40 TD's last year ... 16 INT's ... never missed a game in three years, never won less than 11 games. Overall decent guy ... and he's not top 10, because ... he's in weak division? Like that is his fault. At this point Luck is better than Ryan, Flacco, Brees, Manning, Stafford, Eli, Romo, Wilson, you name it, except for Brady or Rogers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrillMusic Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 really, he's not a 10 ten? So, if you were the GM to the Cotls and it's time to pay him ... you wouldn't give him top 10 QB money? 40 TD's last year ... 16 INT's ... never missed a game in three years, never won less than 11 games. Overall decent guy ... and he's not top 10, because ... he's in weak division? Like that is his fault. At this point Luck is better than Ryan, Flacco, Brees, Manning, Stafford, Eli, romoSUCKS, Wilson, you name it, except for Brady or Rogers. you are deluisonal... Cam Newton and Russell Wilson are both better than Luck... Cam Newton no keuchkly, or benjamin and he has his team at 2-0... Look at what the colts front office does for Luck every year adding pieces to his team Luck is a top 15 qb.. thats all i can say http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr/_/week/1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan1523 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 you are deluisonal... Cam Newton and Russell Wilson are both better than Luck... Cam Newton no keuchkly, or benjamin and he has his team at 2-0... Look at what the colts front office does for Luck every year adding pieces to his team Luck is a top 15 qb.. thats all i can say http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr/_/week/1 Let's not kid ourselves here Luck can read and manipulate a defense with the best of them. Is big and move like cam newton (obviously not just like him cause Cam is a freak). His weakness is the TO's, and yes it's a big problem, but most of its due from having .5 seconds to throw behind not just a crappy, one of the worst O lines in the league. He makes plays and hits open receivers when given a chance, but the o line is doing him no favors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonSkins77 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Couldn't quite workout why they didn't do more to improve the Oline in the offseason, instead of getting even more pass catchers, definitely some differences between the front office and the coaching staff on how to build a team. Letting Pagano's contract run down you do have the feeling the writings on the wall with regards to a coaching change in Indy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrillMusic Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Let's not kid ourselves here Luck can read and manipulate a defense with the best of them. Is big and move like cam newton (obviously not just like him cause Cam is a freak). His weakness is the TO's, and yes it's a big problem, but most of its due from having .5 seconds to throw behind not just a crappy, one of the worst O lines in the league. He makes plays and hits open receivers when given a chance, but the o line is doing him no favors. Luck has more turnovers than Jay Cutler... JAY CUTLER.. over the past 2 years.... he is NOT better than Cam or Wilson... PERIOD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointyfootball Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 you are deluisonal... Cam Newton and Russell Wilson are both better than Luck... Cam Newton no keuchkly, or benjamin and he has his team at 2-0... Look at what the colts front office does for Luck every year adding pieces to his team Luck is a top 15 qb.. thats all i can say http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr/_/week/1 what makes you say that? Wilson I can see, Cam I cannot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan1523 Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Luck has more turnovers than Jay Cutler... JAY CUTLER.. over the past 2 years.... he is NOT better than Cam or Wilson... PERIOD They may be better, but you're acting like Luck is some bum, when he clearly is not, and is certainly a top 10 QB. Like I said TO's are a HUGE problem, he has to get that under control, but he makes up for those TO's most of the time with everything else he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Geez I didn't think this thread was coming back. He's had a few bad games. Dude is legit. He will probably always throw INTs though. He's Brett Favre in that regard. If he gets a better OL, i'd imagine those INT numbers would come down some. He will still throw his share of them because he Is a high volume passer and pushes the ball downfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autoidiodyssey Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Couldn't quite workout why they didn't do more to improve the Oline in the offseason, instead of getting even more pass catchers, definitely some differences between the front office and the coaching staff on how to build a team. Letting Pagano's contract run down you do have the feeling the writings on the wall with regards to a coaching change in Indy. Their GM is clearly from the Vinny school of team building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 you are deluisonal... Cam Newton and Russell Wilson are both better than Luck... Cam Newton no keuchkly, or benjamin and he has his team at 2-0... Look at what the colts front office does for Luck every year adding pieces to his team Luck is a top 15 qb.. thats all i can say http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr/_/week/1 Ok, Cam is a really good QB, but lets not jump the gun here. The Panthers beat Jacksonville, Houston and Saints (about to without Brees). Colts have played the Bills, Jets and are now up on the Titans driving for another score. Luck has looked horrible thus far, no doubt. But to say that he is not better than Cam overall, I disagree. Look at both career stats, with one less year for Luck. Not to mention the Panthers have had the better defense. Both teams have had issues with injuries. Yes, Cam lost his entire receiving core, but the NFC South sucked last year, they won the division with a 7-8-1 record. Colts add pieces? well evidently they didn't get the memo to add o-line :/ And the Panthers have only assembled, I dunno a top 10 defense in the league. And a stud WR in Benjamin. But yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Cam is okay, that Panthers team is built around their D. The Colts are literally all Luck. Without him they're probably 3-13 at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Cam is okay, that Panthers team is built around their D. The Colts are literally all Luck. Without him they're probably 3-13 at best. I dont know man. They have a pretty stacked offense. ANd Luck has been terrible with Andre Johnson, Fank Gore and TY on that side of the ball. Maybe they will get better this season as they play together more. But Lucks int's today were abysmal, like rookie QB abysmal. Bad reads and throws together on the same play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Cam is okay, that Panthers team is built around their D. The Colts are literally all Luck. Without him they're probably 3-13 at best. Still on this same old excuse after three years War? The kids good but his vastly overrated. No big deal, the same thing happened with Eli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkeyBoy Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 And the Panthers have only assembled, I dunno a top 10 defense in the league. And a stud WR in Benjamin. But yeah The guy who is out for the year? Cam is stuck doing his best to make Ted Ginn look like a competent WR at the moment, the funny thing is that it's working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Cam = Big Ben. They just win no matter what's around them. Luck = Stafford. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 The guy who is out for the year? Cam is stuck doing his best to make Ted Ginn look like a competent WR at the moment, the funny thing is that it's working. My post was in response to him stating they don't add pieces in the off season. They do/did. Their primary focus is on defense though. They did dump their entire WR corps two off-seasons ago, but also used their first round pick to draft the best WR in the draft in Benjamin. Him getting injured was unfortunate, but it's not like they didn't get him a stud WR. Cam is having to do more with less this season due to the loss of Benjamin. But their o-line is better than the Colts. And the Colts defense isn't in the same league as the Panthers. Looking at career stats and long term, I still think Luck is the better QB than Cam is. And I don't think Cam is a slouch either. When I was debating this Luck vs. Cam stuff in here and the other thread, it was a long time ago. Cam has come a long way since his second year in the league, definitely matured and became the leader on his team. A lot of the negativity I posted previously in regards to Cam was the fans and local media in Charlotte that was borderline worshiping the guy and putting him on a pedestal when he had not done anything to deserve it (from a team perspective). Talking about 2013, prior to that season and early on in the season. Not present/current. His rookie year was amazing, no doubt. But it was all individual awards, his team finished 6-10. Then his second year 7-9. He started putting it together in his 3rd season, making throws when needed, not costing them ball games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Still on this same old excuse after three years War? The kids good but his vastly overrated. No big deal, the same thing happened with Eli. Luck has to make aggressive throws downfield to give his team a chance. That's why he throws so many picks. He doesn't really have a great supporting cast. His best receiver is, what, an aging past his prime Andre Johnson? Frank Gore? That would be a great supporting cast in 2006. He's also never had an OL. People loved to trash our OL the last couple of years but Luck has had no protection whatsoever. And their D has never really been great. Yet the last three years they've improved every year and made the AFC Title game last year. He also engineered one of the biggest(or was it the biggest)comeback in playoff history. I dont know man. They have a pretty stacked offense. ANd Luck has been terrible with Andre Johnson, Fank Gore and TY on that side of the ball. Maybe they will get better this season as they play together more. But Lucks int's today were abysmal, like rookie QB abysmal. Bad reads and throws together on the same play. Stacked offense? With Andre Johnson and Frank Gore? Those guys have been past their prime for years now. I do like TY Hilton though but he was a mid round draft pick relative nobody. More likely that Luck has made him look better than he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExoDus84 Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Luck already with 7 INT's in 3 games. Awful start. He was lucky to pull a win out of his ass yesterday. Mariota has been playing better than I expected, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Jones Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 What would you exactly have them do differently? I don't think they tanked on purpose, to pull something like that off would require too many people to be on board, including players, too many ways to be exposed (i.e. whistle blowers, media leaks, etc.), not to mention all those guys and coaches jobs are on the line, nobody is safe (we saw that when they let Manning go). You make some good points. but: 2014 - Won 11 Games 2013 - Won 11 Games 2012 - Won 11 Games 2011 - Won 2 Games - 1st pick in the draft 2010 - Won 10 Games 2009 - Won 14 Games 2008 - Won 12 Games 2007 - Won 13 Games 2006 - Won 12 Games And so on Feel free to research any team with the number 1 pick in any draft year with comparable numbers. In 2008 Brady went down, a comparable QB to Manning in quality, NE won 11 games that year. Indy sucked for Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Indy sucked for Luck. Not only that, they sucked for Manning too. AFCCG one year, playoffs the next, worst in the league just in time to draft Manning the next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 You make some good points. but: 2014 - Won 11 Games 2013 - Won 11 Games 2012 - Won 11 Games 2011 - Won 2 Games - 1st pick in the draft 2010 - Won 10 Games 2009 - Won 14 Games 2008 - Won 12 Games 2007 - Won 13 Games 2006 - Won 12 Games And so on Feel free to research any team with the number 1 pick in any draft year with comparable numbers. In 2008 Brady went down, a comparable QB to Manning in quality, NE won 11 games that year. Indy sucked for Luck. You make a valid point. Though it was said throughout his career that Peyton made the oline better, same with Luck. I dunno, I don't think it's tanking when they won in week 15 and 16, why win then? I just think it would take a lot of people agreeing to dump games to pull something like that off, too many where at least one person would come clean or mess up (e.g. emails, texts, etc.) to pull something like that off. Sure coaches can call horrible plays, but the players play. With jobs on the line, why would they risk "sucking" and losing their job or negatively impacting a future contract if they were set to hit FA that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofSparta Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Sure coaches can call horrible plays, but the players play. With jobs on the line, why would they risk "sucking" and losing their job or negatively impacting a future contract if they were set to hit FA that year. All it takes is the coach playing the right (wrong) players. You can't tell me you're legitimately trying to win when you start Dan Orlovsky and Curtis Painter at QB despite knowing all offseason you won't have Peyton, and make no attempt to get even a journeyman starter who could win 4-5 games. Yes, I know it was Orlovsky that eventually got them their 2 wins. Truth be told, I think Shanahan and the Redskins were in on the "Suck for Luck" train too. He just got scared and bailed too early. My proof of that? He wanted to start John freaking Beck at QB for an NFL team. Grossman managed to win 4 games that year despite starting less than a full season for the team. Sure, Beck might not have gone 0-16, but I think we could have come in at #2 that year and not had to give away everything for Griffin. I think it's fairly easy for an organization to tank while not being obvious about it. Let Garcon have the best season of his career, but make some nobody throw to him (and everybody else) who will complete less than 60% of his passes (Painter). Stick a noodle-arm like Chad Pennington in there and call a deep play every 3rd throw. If I'm the coach, I sure as hell want some kind of unofficial agreement from management that by tanking 1 year to take the best QB of the decade I get to be around for said QBs rookie year, at least. But you don't need to involve the whole team in a tanking effort. Just put the wrong people in the wrong positions and let them live down to your expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 You make a valid point. Though it was said throughout his career that Peyton made the oline better, same with Luck. I dunno, I don't think it's tanking when they won in week 15 and 16, why win then? I just think it would take a lot of people agreeing to dump games to pull something like that off, too many where at least one person would come clean or mess up (e.g. emails, texts, etc.) to pull something like that off. Sure coaches can call horrible plays, but the players play. With jobs on the line, why would they risk "sucking" and losing their job or negatively impacting a future contract if they were set to hit FA that year. By week 16 and 17, they had wrapped up the first pick. On top of that, coincidentally enough (wink), the media had just started reporting that there were questions about if the Colts were tanking. All of a sudden, rumors start to be mentioned and they miraculously win. My wife is from Indiana. Her entire family (except one black sheep Bears fan) are die-hard Colts fans. Many of them said at the time that the Colts were tanking the season. They knew Manning was not only getting up in age, but he missed the entire season due to neck surgeries. One of the best QB prospects to come out in a decade was going to be the number one pick. The calls, not just plays but players, was more than suspect. It had all the makings of a tank job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I don't buy the tank. Players aren't going to lose games on purpose because nobody wants to be associated with 3-13, and if you tank for a draft pick there is no guarantee you'll have a job the next year with that team anyway. Now GM/Coaches might make the decision to play young guys("evaluation purposes" as Shanahan would say)but ultimately come Sundays you're still doing everything in your power to win. I mean its not like they were punting on 1st down and doing all out punt block blitzes on defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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