We Have To Keep The Shanahans...

[Redskins Diehard]

I quit reading at page four so someone may have asked this. Who do we replace him with? Who out there is a more experienced, learned, succesful coach than Shananhan? Andy Reid apparently sucked large, round things in Philly. He learned alot in the off-season. Do you guys really think we will find a better coach? Whatever the Shanny's failures are currently, who out there is a better football coach? There may be someone out there, who is it?

Well there are quite a few camps out there on that one.

 

You have a small contingent of the "let's bring Robert's college coach here to recreate that Big 12 magic"

Then there is another contingent that would like to stick with the college them and go with either the coach at Stanford or the one at Texas A&M

And I have seen at least one advocate for the offensive coordinator in Indy...although that may have taken a hit yesterday.

[Redskins Diehard]

Well Hell. I thought I was subtly pointing out what a condescending ass you were being.

Thank you for pointing out my folly. Still learning on how to be 'rational.' Bare with me.

Hail.

Well if anyone would recognize a condescending ass....."I am a realist and everyone who disagrees is a homer"

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Well if anyone would recognize a condescending ass....."I am a realist and everyone who disagrees is a homer"

Feel free to quote that when you actually find a quote.

Hail.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I quit reading at page four so someone may have asked this. Who do we replace him with? Who out there is a more experienced, learned, succesful coach than Shananhan? Andy Reid apparently sucked large, round things in Philly. He learned alot in the off-season. Do you guys really think we will find a better coach? Whatever the Shanny's failures are currently, who out there is a better football coach? There may be someone out there, who is it?

Who's to say that we need another coach like that?

Fresh faced guys seem to be working out more than not

[Redskins Diehard]

Feel free to quote that when you actually find a quote.

Hail.

Coach Lombardi just smiled down that BIG ass, **** eating smile of his reading that. God rest him.

 

Nailed it again lil' bro'. Balls out there, heart on sleeve, telling it like it is.

 

No wonder you're up there vying for 'Public Enemy Numero Uno' on the homer hit list.

 

Hail.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

 

Well there are quite a few camps out there on that one.

 

You have a small contingent of the "let's bring Robert's college coach here to recreate that Big 12 magic"

Then there is another contingent that would like to stick with the college them and go with either the coach at Stanford or the one at Texas A&M

And I have seen at least one advocate for the offensive coordinator in Indy...although that may have taken a hit yesterday.

So a crap shoot? Anybody has to better than our guy.

Big 12 magic is created by nobody in the conference playing defense. Which is why Boise and everybody else beats Oklahoma in BCS games. I guess Big 12 philosophy would fit in really well for us. Not sure how it would change game outcomes though.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

That is your best effort RD? Perceived perception?

Interesting strategy. But I shall note it in my notes on how to be rational.

Hail.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

 

Who's to say that we need another coach like that?

Fresh faced guys seem to be working out more than not

 

Well, maybe. but again, who is it? Who is better than Shanny? Who do we roll the dice on? Cause that is what we will be doing.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Well, maybe. but again, who is it? Who is better than Shanny? Who do we roll the dice on? Cause that is what we will be doing.

We damn sure are rolling the dice in keeping him and letting him spend our cap money this offseason

[darrelgreenie]

Well, maybe. but again, who is it? Who is better than Shanny? Who do we roll the dice on? Cause that is what we will be doing.

You are asking the wrong question. We don't know who will be 'better' then Shanahan. No one can know. You could ask who are the qualified candidates or something along those lines. But even then its a disengenuos question because we are fans not GM or Owners and are not privvy to same information. But there have been entire threads with suggestions just read that thread.

[Redskins Diehard]

That is your best effort RD? Perceived perception?

Interesting strategy. But I shall note it in my notes on how to be rational.

Hail.

yes, be sure to note it in your notes.

[grhqofb5]

I agree, without reading this monstrous thread.  Keep them both.  If changes need to be made, its on defense.  We have a top tier QB, a top tier RB, and two top tier receivers that should be around for the next 5 years+.  Keep them in the same system. 

[texasthunder]

I quit reading at page four so someone may have asked this. Who do we replace him with? Who out there is a more experienced, learned, succesful coach than Shananhan? Andy Reid apparently sucked large, round things in Philly. He learned alot in the off-season. Do you guys really think we will find a better coach? Whatever the Shanny's failures are currently, who out there is a better football coach? There may be someone out there, who is it?

 

IMHO, I think we need to keep some continuity for the next couple of years. The Skins drafted Robert for his specific skills, we should look at any changes with the thought process of developing Robert even further.

 

BUT, again IMHO we definitely need to make some coaching staff changes. Our team is way to undisciplined, and unprepared.

Penalties, clock management, and way too many missed tackles.

 

I would be onboard if they moved Mike S. to VP of operations, made Kyle headcoach, brought in new offensive and defensive coordinators. 

I believe it was MartinC who mentioned Phillip Montgomery from Baylor, Roberts old OC, but I just don't see Phillip leaving Art Briles, he has been with him for 15 years. But you never know, he may want to try his hand at the pro's.

 

I just think their needs to be a way to keep building on what we have now, not tear it down and start over. We have danced that dance way too many times. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I agree, without reading this monstrous thread.  Keep them both.  If changes need to be made, its on defense.  We have a top tier QB, a top tier RB, and two top tier receivers that should be around for the next 5 years+.  Keep them in the same system. 

 

Failing to build a good defense and hire good D coordinators, etc -- have arguably been the main reason why Shanny's teams would fall short and this ultimately cost him his job.  Him putting together a good offense but a struggiling defense has been a formula for mediocrity in his later years in Denver.   What have we seen here that quiets down that criticism?  

 

Yeah Shanny knows offense.  He has shown that.  Yeah his defenses struggle mightly.  we've seen that too.  On balance, that's not the ticket to win championships.    

[SJValleySkinz]

I've now concluded that Nick Saban should be the next head coach. Apparently we're looking for a head coach that can only win if he can spend money on better players and has superior talent than everyone else at most positions.

[ZRagone]

It is disingenious to think that ShanAllen had no part to play in the cap hell. They took a big-time gamble and lost big-time.

I don't hold people responsible for illegal behavior being used against them.

Had they not acted WITHIN THE RULES during the uncapped year and freed ourselves of the cap hell we were in then we would've still been hamstrung for at least another year with the HORRENDOUS contracts that ShanAllen inherited from Cerrato.

Do nothing and we were screwed. Allen took action that, frankly, should be commended for in terms of utilizing the rules and situation to its fullest in order to get us out of Cap Hell. It was only thanks to collusion and dirty dealings on the part of the other owners that it ended up hurting us.

I don't even blame them for it, but I won't let them use it as an excuse either. It was a factor in personnel, but has nothing to do with the lack of discipline, suspensions, locker room issues, etc.

I think bringing it up and referencing it is not an "excuse". Explaining context is not an "excuse", it's dealing with reality.

However, you are absolutely right.

The Cap Penalty can be used to explain issues such as holes we may have at various positions, lack of talent or depth, etc.

For other things, like suspensions, it CAN play into it but not completely. Free Agents like Tanard Jackson, who we picked up on the cheap in large part DUE to those issues, could be attributed to having to make personnel decisions under a shrunken cap. On the flip side, drafted players like Rob Jackson and Jarvis Jenkins running into that issue has nothing to do with the cap.

Then there are things, such as discipline as you note, that absolutely have nothing to do with the cap penalty. That's an issue that resides fully on Shanahan and is a reasonable basis on which to criticize him and suggest that the cap penalty is irrelevant towards.

The Cap Penalty can't be ignored in this type of situation because it doesn't set up the context for some of the complaints about Shanahan. But neither can it be used as an end all, be all, counter to every bit of criticism that's aimed the HC's way.

[Rufus T Firefly]

I stand corrected then I was wrong my apologies. However I did admit the Meriweather deal was an expensive deal, should have been 2 years /$4 million in my opinion.

 

Shanahan said he wasn't going to ask Fletcher to take a pay cut for the betterment of the team, you can't ding shanny for that one, EVERYONE wanted fletcher back there wasn't a soul who said get rid of fletcher so stop it.

 

Licht and montgomery played very well last year shanahan's philosophy is to keep the offensive line together we still have one of the top ranked offensive lines units in the whole entire league so i'm not sure why you're complaining?

There were plenty of us who knew it was time to move on from Fletcher, and in a year where ILB was one of the strengths of FA.

 

The point, one last time, is that you can't claim guys who Shanahan is paying 3 to 4 times the minimum, or 3 mil, or 6 mil, aren't even worthy of a roster spot while at the same time claim that, given more money, Shanahan would surely have spent it well. The further point with guys like Fletcher, Montgomery and Lichtensteiger, not to mention one of the league's worst, yet highest paid, Punters, is that he had plenty of opportunities to spend money. He just hasn't done much with it.

[abdcskins]

I knew we shouldn't have cut Graham Gano.  Young kicker, strong leg....let's get rid of him.  Stupid decision.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I quit reading at page four so someone may have asked this. Who do we replace him with? Who out there is a more experienced, learned, succesful coach than Shananhan? Andy Reid apparently sucked large, round things in Philly. He learned alot in the off-season. Do you guys really think we will find a better coach? Whatever the Shanny's failures are currently, who out there is a better football coach? There may be someone out there, who is it?

 

Certainly if a bunch of fans with real jobs can't identify anyone better, there isn't a candidate right? I hope that whenever we replace Shanahan, the list of replacements is made up of names I barely know. That's what would tell me we have real people (Allen and/or a new GM) running the show.

 

As long as the list is Cowher, Gruden, and Lovey Smith...I might as well be the one making the decisions.

[EasternNCbywayofNOVA]

RG3 was built for shanahans offense.

Greg Williams was humbled.

You bring Greg as D cord and we are set!

[Redskins Diehard]

Certainly if a bunch of fans with real jobs can't identify anyone better, there isn't a candidate right? I hope that whenever we replace Shanahan, the list of replacements is made up of names I barely know. That's what would tell me we have real people (Allen and/or a new GM) running the show.

As long as the list is Cowher, Gruden, and Lovey Smith...I might as well be the one making the decisions.

But these fans that don't know anything because of their real jobs are qualified to say this guy isn't?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

But these fans that don't know anything because of their real jobs are qualified to say this guy isn't?

 

Huh? Which guy? The poster? Sure, he might know the ins and outs of evaluating and hiring a head NFL coach. Odds are he's not, but it's possible.

 

All I mean is that I don't like the "replace him with who" question because it implies that someone posting on a message board has the same knowledge or information available to him as a billion dollar organization with life-long football people at its disposal. Hell, if Snyder wanted to he could hire 11 of the wisest and most respected football minds to make this decision for him.

 

So, if I've watched a coach flounder for 3+ years, I'm likely able to see that he's not doing a good job. However, it's much less obvious who would make a good replacement. One thing is demonstrated, the other is completely open-ended and devoid of facts. If I just answered the question with "Cleveland's Linebackers Coach" you could neither confirm or deny that I'm right.

[Redskins Diehard]

So, if I've watched a coach flounder for 3+ years, I'm likely able to see that he's not doing a good job. However, it's much less obvious who would make a good replacement. One thing is demonstrated, the other is completely open-ended and devoid of facts. If I just answered the question with "Cleveland's Linebackers Coach" you could neither confirm or deny that I'm right.

We will disagree that this current staff has "floundered". both with respect to overhauling the way we do business. With laying the framework of a respectable AND sustainable roster. And winning a Division title for only the second time in 20 years.

[clskinsfan]

If it was JUST the bad roster that would be one thing.  But it was a bad roster that had contracts structured in such a way that you could not turnover that bad roster. 

 

Well, You could, but it cost you a 36 million cap penalty to do it.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

We will disagree that this current staff has "floundered". both with respect to overhauling the way we do business. With laying the framework of a respectable AND sustainable roster. And winning a Division title for only the second time in 20 years.

 

Fine. I know that you don't agree about Shanahan specifically. That's OK.

 

Generally speaking though, I think a typical fan is much more qualified to identify a coach who isn't getting the job done than he/she is in knowing who viable replacements are. So, if I think any coach should be fired, the fact that I don't have a solid replacement in mind isn't really a counter-argument. That's all I was really trying to state.

 

Back to Shanahan, haven't you said that you would be ready to move on if the Redskins go 5-11 or 6-10 this year? If so, why would 3-4 over the final 7 games (just about Shanahan's record from 2010 through now) change your feelings about the way he conducts business, his roster, or the division championship?