We Have To Keep The Shanahans...

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I would answer RD but apparently I'm incapable of seeing the bigger picture and as such I'm unreasonable.

So I guess I won't.

Hail.

[thecardiacrll]

You honestly think, given everything that's gone on, given everything that the insiders/ beat guys say on the subject, that there's a good relationship between Coach and QB? 

 

It's a 'working' one at best. 

 

Hail. 

It's not BS at all GHH youre right...But it's not tension between RG3 and Mike it's tension between RG3 and KYLE. Ive heard this from a direct source. Im no INSIDER but in this situation I know someone INVOLVED.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

It's not BS at all GHH youre right...But it's not tension between RG3 and Mike it's tension between RG3 and KYLE. Ive heard this from a direct source. Im no INSIDER but in this situation I know someone INVOLVED.

Conspiracy theorists abound ..... Interesting man. Flies in the face of what many claim about Kyle being the guy for Robert.

One things for darn certain, the longer this winless run goes, the more fraught the locks room will become and then when things start leaking out this place should be a riot.

Hail.

[RG3Hunna]

Of course you aren't.  Nor are you down with taking a big picture view of everything that contributes to the old bottom line.  But as you are aware you have plenty of company in that regard.  The franchise was a total and complete mess at the end of 2009.  This notion that you can "blow up" and "rebuild" an NFL franchise in the era of salary cap is elementary thinking at best.  You can not just cut, or trade, players with fresh 20+ million bonuses.  They get accelerated into the current year.  You also have to put 53 players together and march them out week after week.  Did anyone say "rebuild"? No.  Does a fan with half a brain recognize that that is exactly what was going on? Absolutely.  But the "Can Shanahan Clan" refuses to see that.  And proclaiming themselves as the "reasonable" ones.

 

Will Shanahan bring a Lombardi Trophy? Probably not.  Odds are against any coach bringing a Lombardi.  Belichick himself is on an 8 year drought.  Steelers had a 20+ year drought between Super Bowls.  20+ and counting for the 49ers.  It doesn't happen very often and for longtime fans we have 3 championships.  More than what we should have at this point assuming a somewhat even distribution in a league that does more for parity than any other north american professional league.  I don't expect a Super Bowl title with Shanahan.  I wouldn't expect it with any of the other coaches that have been mentioned on this board.  We have a young team.  We have good-great players in some key positions.  So finish not only the roster rebuild, but the organizational rebuild so that we don't see Haynesworth deals, and Hall deals, and Jason Taylor deals.

 

but but but the 49ers did it when they hired harbaugh nevermind that he has one of the most stacked rosters in the entire league and yet they are only 6-3..... if the 49ers did it we can just fire coaches every 3-4 years until we finally hit on a coach who gives us instant success because we don't want mediocrity and you shouldn't have to wait if the 49ers found instant success I think that's a fantastic strategy........ (ends sarcasm) 

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Nope, they have had their time to fix this team and have failed. If it wasn't for the winning streak we had last season we would have been calling for his head then. 

[clskinsfan]

The 'relationship', or widely reported from those that follow the team on a daily basis,. strained and tenuous one between HC and QB. 

 

Throw in all the other carnage and can you still him staying beyond his rookie contract?

 

Hail. 

 

He is getting franchised even if he wanted to leave. Bare minimum we recoup our draft picks and move on. But that makes keeping cousins even more important. As far as Shanny goes. The resposibility falls on his shoulders. But his offense is doing its job. It is this pathetic defense (the worst I have seen in Skins history) that is costing us games.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I would answer RD but apparently I'm incapable of seeing the bigger picture and as such I'm unreasonable.

So I guess I won't.

Hail.

They talk about how reactionary and emotional we are but every one of their posts boils down to "You're stupid. You're emotional" 

 

It's like arguing with children. 

[Redskins Diehard]

I would answer RD but apparently I'm incapable of seeing the bigger picture and as such I'm unreasonable.

So I guess I won't.

Hail.

Not sure if you are incapable or just choose not to.  But in the bottom line business of message board posting....you don't see it.  But you have plenty of company.

 

An interesting characteristic of the Can Shanahan Clan is that they frequently have to discount some portion of reality to advance their argument.  "If not for the 7 game win streak" or "The salary cap situation means nothing".  I wonder why that is? 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Not sure if you are incapable or just choose not to.  But in the bottom line business of message board posting....you don't see it.  But you have plenty of company.

 

An interesting characteristic of the Can Shanahan Clan is that they frequently have to discount some portion of reality to advance their argument.  "If not for the 7 game win streak" or "The salary cap situation means nothing".  I wonder why that is? 

Is 21-27 not reality? Did I dream the abomination that is this defense and ST? Did I dream Rex/beck and McNabb? Are not currently 3-6? I can play that dumbass game too.

 

You're really quick to **** on others and say "**** the other side. They're stupid"

[Redskins Diehard]

Is 21-27 not reality? Did I dream the abomination that is this defense and ST? Did I dream Rex/beck and McNabb? Are not currently 3-6? I can play that dumbass game too.

 

You're really quick to **** on others and say "**** the other side. They're stupid"

I haven't said anyone is stupid.  But you are getting emotional and losing your cool.  Stay calm, act medium.

 

You did not dream Rex/Beck or McNabb.  Big picture is evaluating a decision based on other available alternatives.  McNabb cost us a 2d round pick.  We would be better had we not given up that pick.  What was the alternative to Rex/Beck?  Are you one of these guys that gets their panties in a wad because "Shanahan lied to us and said they were good"? 

 

The reality of the situation is that in 2009 we had a terrible team.  A terrible draft situation.  A terrible cap situation.  We were a disaster.  You want 53 new players and a manageable cap after FOUR YEARS which is just not realistic. 

 

Arguing for a coaching change right now is just stupid.  It isn't happening mid season.  And you will have the benefit of plenty of additional data in 2 months.  That data may strengthen your position.  It may weaken it.  But after 3.5 years you are convinced that you have the right answer.  I'm open minded still.  And that is the difference.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Is 21-27 not reality? Did I dream the abomination that is this defense and ST? Did I dream Rex/beck and McNabb? Are not currently 3-6? I can play that dumbass game too.

You're really quick to **** on others and say "**** the other side. They're stupid"

I shall mostly be letting BRAVE respond in this thread. Being as I'm incapable of rationale and all.

And the small matter of him pointing out the hypocritically ridiculous.

Hail.

[Redskins Diehard]

I shall mostly be letting BRAVE respond in this thread. Being as I'm incapable of rationale and all.

And the small matter of him pointing out the hypocritically ridiculous.

Hail.

That is such a heartbreaker. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I haven't said anyone is stupid.  But you are getting emotional and losing your cool.  Stay calm, act medium.

 

You did not dream Rex/Beck or McNabb.  Big picture is evaluating a decision based on other available alternatives.  McNabb cost us a 2d round pick.  We would be better had we not given up that pick.  What was the alternative to Rex/Beck?  Are you one of these guys that gets their panties in a wad because "Shanahan lied to us and said they were good"? 

 

The reality of the situation is that in 2009 we had a terrible team.  A terrible draft situation.  A terrible cap situation.  We were a disaster.  You want 53 new players and a manageable cap after FOUR YEARS which is just not realistic. 

 

Arguing for a coaching change right now is just stupid.  It isn't happening mid season.  And you will have the benefit of plenty of additional data in 2 months.  That data may strengthen your position.  It may weaken it.  But after 3.5 years you are convinced that you have the right answer.  I'm open minded still.  And that is the difference.

I've made it known that any changes wouldn't make sense unless they were done in the offseason. Do I think he should be gone at the year in my head at this very moment? HELL Yes but I realize that it makes no sense to do during the season.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I've made it known that any changes wouldn't make sense unless they were done in the offseason. Do I think he should be gone at the year in my head at this very moment? HELL Yes but I realize that it makes no sense to do during the season.

I wasn't aware many have been advocating a mid-season coaching change. But apparently to be rational, you have to take a sporadic POV and generalise it to anyone you disagree with.

I'ma learning a lot today.

Do continue .....

Hail.

[Redskins Diehard]

I've made it known that any changes wouldn't make sense unless they were done in the offseason. Do I think he should be gone at the year in my head at this very moment? HELL Yes but I realize that it makes no sense to do during the season.

So just a general question on decision making then....why would you not wait until all of the data is in?  Is there nothing that could happen that could change your mind?  At 3-13 I am with you on getting rid of him.  At 4-12 I am with you.  At 5-11 I am probably with you.  At 6-10 I am looking at how it happened.  7-9 or better and I am perfectly fine with the extension. 

I wasn't aware many have been advocating a mid-season coaching change. But apparently to be rational, you have to take a sporadic POV and generalise it to anyone you disagree with.

I'ma learning a lot today.

Do continue .....

Hail.

I thought you were going to let Brave handle this thread? 

 

I always wondered how folks with the analysis of Lavar and Dukes could hold down a radio show...threads like this one answers that question. 

[War Paint]

I was pretty much always a Shanahan guy.  It wasn't until a month ago when I started to feel like we needed a change.  Today, I feel like it's time to move on.  We just aren't seeing the consistent progress that we need to see to justify a contract extension.  I hate the coach being a GM and personnel guy.  It never seems to work.  Look at Holmgren and others like him.  A head coach should be the coach, not trying to play GM.  Even if we fired Haslett, do we trust Mike to hire an upgrade at def coord?  I don't.  This team looks so undisciplined and unprepared on game day.  I'm surprised this team is coached by someone with credentials that Shanahan has.  It feels like Zorn a lot of times. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

So just a general question on decision making then....why would you not wait until all of the data is in? Is there nothing that could happen that could change your mind? At 3-13 I am with you on getting rid of him. At 4-12 I am with you. At 5-11 I am probably with you. At 6-10 I am looking at how it happened. 7-9 or better and I am perfectly fine with the extension.

I don't see any reason to think this season won't end in double digit losses. I understand your point on waiting for seasons end but I at this moment, I have no reason to think we will win four more games this season

That's our point of disagreement

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

.....

I thought you were going to let Brave handle this thread?

....

I am. 'Mostly' as stated.

I just feel I'd be remiss not to point out when I learn some more disingenuous, arrogant, hypocritical bunkum about how to be rational.

Carry on.

Hail.

[Redskins Diehard]

I am. 'Mostly' as stated.

I just feel I'd be remiss not to point out when I learn some more disingenuous, arrogant, hypocritical bunkum about how to be rational.

Carry on.

Hail.

Well that is quite the relief.  Every now and then some disingenuous, arrogant, and hypocritcal bunkum is necessary to balance out the self righteous and pompous bunkum that populates these threads. 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Well you know ......

I would bump the thread I made on what I described as 'The single brights revolution in Refskins history' detailing all the change under this regime and just what a mess they inherited; but as I don't get the bigger picture and can't talk with any rationale it would be pointless. And now you've gotten me talking outside of what I'm learning so I shall 'shup and defer to my learned young friend Mr BRAVE.

Hail.

[Riggo#44]

His scheme calls for it and FA nowadays is nothing but overpayment. If he is signing guys, he would be doing it with the idea that he'll be there to stay. He isn't going to sign guys to team-friendly deals that gives the team an out if he is fired. 

Stay the course with a coach that annually starts 3-6, routinely has awful defenses, and is hit-or-miss with talent acquisition. That doesn't seem very close to a SB to me. 

 

And using other team's as examples proves nothing. How long did it take for the Harbaugh's to get to the SB?

 

The Harbaugh's took over teams that had competent organizations.

This is the roster Shanahan took over:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was/2009_roster.htm

 

This is the roster Jim Harbaugh took over:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sfo/2010_roster.htm

 

This is the roster John Harbaugh took over:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rav/2008_roster.htm

 

They Harbaughs had most of the pieces in place with a stable organization around them. People seem to forget what a steaming pile of garbage this team was when Shanahan took over. We have talent on this team; to say otherwise is idiotic. We are a few pieces away. And here is something to ponder:

 

We have major issues on the interior line. But somehow, we are the #6 offense (#4 rushing, #11 passing). How is that possible? I am going to say...coaching. This offensive staff is good. People need to calm down and look at the problem--Jim Haslett.

 

Case in point. In the 4th quarter, the Vikings had 3rd and 9 at midfield. Perry Riley was covering Jerome Simpson because Haslett had the wrong defense in there (Shanahans own admission). Big play--Vikings drive and kick a FG. They had 2 stops. 2...the entire game. One was a horrible up-for-grabs INT by Ponder on the 1st drive. Haslett is the problem.

 

I am willing to bet Wade Phillips is going to be available in the offseason. If they don't send Haslett packing and bring in Phillips I will be furious. If they keep Haslett then yes, Shanahan should be canned. He needs to admit his mistake there and correct it.

[Redskins Diehard]

I don't see any reason to think this season won't end in double digit losses. I understand your point on waiting for seasons end but I at this moment, I have no reason to think we will win four more games this season

That's our point of disagreement

I guess I don't see as great of a distinction between 7-9 and 6-10 as some.  Sure there is a distinction. I think this upcoming week is actually our worst matchup remaining this year.  After that I see winnable games and "any given Sunday" games. 

 

Whatever happens at the end of this season I am glad that we changed the organizational culture away from a crippling Haynesworth and Hall deal to a responsible 5 year deal on 25 year old receiver.  At the end of the day going into next season we have as much flexibility as could be expected to either stick with the 3-4 or move back to the 4-3.  It looks like it is about a 50-50 proposition league wide this year. 

 

As far as Super Bowl titles in the next 3 or 4 years...I would take "the field" over any single team out there.  I also do not think that switching up management definitely increases our likelihood of getting to that point from an organizational perspective.  Roster construction is still necessary.  Last thing we need is a new coach to come in and think he better win in a year or two or run the risk of being out. 

Well you know ......

I would bump the thread I made on what I described as 'The single brights revolution in Refskins history' detailing all the change under this regime and just what a mess they inherited; but as I don't get the bigger picture and can't talk with any rationale it would be pointless. And now you've gotten me talking outside of what I'm learning so I shall 'shup and defer to my learned young friend Mr BRAVE.

Hail.

Nothing like referencing your own thread to prove you aren't self righteous and pompous!

[Fat Stupid Loser]

I quit reading at page four so someone may have asked this. Who do we replace him with? Who out there is a more experienced, learned, succesful coach than Shananhan? Andy Reid apparently sucked large, round things in Philly. He learned alot in the off-season. Do you guys really think we will find a better coach? Whatever the Shanny's failures are currently, who out there is a better football coach? There may be someone out there, who is it?

[Redskins Diehard]

The Harbaugh's took over teams that had competent organizations.

This is the roster Shanahan took over:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was/2009_roster.htm

 

This is the roster Jim Harbaugh took over:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sfo/2010_roster.htm

 

This is the roster John Harbaugh took over:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rav/2008_roster.htm

 

If it was JUST the bad roster that would be one thing.  But it was a bad roster that had contracts structured in such a way that you could not turnover that bad roster. 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

..... Nothing like referencing your own thread to prove you aren't self righteous and pompous!

Well Hell. I thought I was subtly pointing out what a condescending ass you were being.

Thank you for pointing out my folly. Still learning on how to be 'rational.' Bare with me.

Hail.