We Have To Keep The Shanahans...

[Koolblue13]

When the new regime came in, they walked into a ****hole of a situation. No talent and completely adrift franchise. Since they've been here, they've had to rebuild an entire team ground up. We knew the defensive switch would take a while. Kyle runs a complicated offense and we have a very new QB coming off injury learning it. Weve been robbed of cap money and are short of picks. Its going to take time.

Stop yelling blow it up every time we dont win a superbowl, this is going to take time. You dont wash 20 years of stink off a sorry franchise ina few years.

[nuposse87]

When the new regime came in, they walked into a ****hole of a situation. No talent and completely adrift franchise. Since they've been here, they've had to rebuild an entire team ground up. We knew the defensive switch would take a while. Kyle runs a complicated offense and we have a very new QB coming off injury learning it. Weve been robbed of cap money and are short of picks. Its going to take time.

Stop yelling blow it up every time we dont win a superbowl, this is going to take time. You dont wash 20 years of stink off a sorry franchise ina few years.

 

what elite talent do we have now? RG III, Trent Williams, Hall and maybe Morrris. Everything else is replaceable. While I don't think coaches should be fired after year 1 or 2...this guy is halfway through his 4th, and hasn't really made any progress. People need to stop making excuses for him. 

[Skins3000]

  

It's hard to draft quality players when you don't have first round draft picks, but Shanahan has done a much better drafting in the later rounds for contributors then any coach in recent memory for the redskins. Guys like Roy Helu (4th), Richard Crawford (7th), Chris Nield (7th), Niles Paul (5th), shoot Kirk Cousins in the 4th are just a couple examples. We had 12 picks in the 2011 draft and 8 of the are still on the active roster, whens the last time we EVER had a draft like that?

3rd down conversion % in 2012 was 35.8% for 24th in NFL, we're 4th in the NFL right now 46%. We were 4th in total penalties last year, we're currently 15th. Hindsight is a ***** about the McNabb trade because he was douche that didn't want to learn the system and really was more done then we realized he was, but there's only so much I can say about or free agent acqusitions when we had to deal with the cap hit for two years in a row. I can say I love how we've gone from overpaying guys to bringing them in the reasonable contracts that we can get out of if it doesn't work, like larry johnson and willie parker. Just look what he did with our best corner, cut him because he wanted too much money then brought him back on a cap friendly contract.

We're a better franchise then before shanahan got here, the wins will come. Hell, we won the division last year, it's not like he can't do it, he's already done it at least once...

 

Shanahan still had 2-7 this year to draft and the RG3 trade I did not have a problem with neither but the first two years of Shanahan tenure, Mike only hit on his first round picks in Williams and Kerrigan. 2-7 shows if a team has a quality scouting department and mentioned Nield who has been inactive this year more than seeing the field, Niles Paul drops more passes than he catches thus causing the team to use another pick this year at TE in Jordan Reed, unfortunate for Crawford, and Kirk Cousins a 4th round luxury pick that definitely needed to be a pick to help the front seven on pass rush or back end on coverage or even some offensive line help. A free agent backup qb would have been way better than using a 4th round pick on a player that sits the bench 80% of the year. And before you say Kirk Cousin will turn into a first round draft pick, Kirk was drafted in the 4th round for a reason. Many insiders believe if the Skins are remotely lucky a 2nd round pick would be the most this team would ever get for Cousins.

 

Cutting Hall was a no brainer at his age and the kind of year Hall had last year. Mind you, Garcon and Morgan were over paid to be here. Garcon has pained out but Morgan on the other hand is a bust. You say the wins will come, when in 10 years when the game has passed Shanahan by if the game has not already. Even if Shanahan does salvage this year, the man is 61 years old. Are the Skins going to keep him around like Dick LeBeau at 75. Just like players, I rather see a coach leave one year earlier than a year later passed his prime.

When the new regime came in, they walked into a ****hole of a situation. No talent and completely adrift franchise. Since they've been here, they've had to rebuild an entire team ground up. We knew the defensive switch would take a while. Kyle runs a complicated offense and we have a very new QB coming off injury learning it. Weve been robbed of cap money and are short of picks. Its going to take time.

Stop yelling blow it up every time we dont win a superbowl, this is going to take time. You dont wash 20 years of stink off a sorry franchise ina few years.

 

Oh you don't. What about K.C. or Detroit who has had way more garbage than the Skins.

[Riggo#44]

Shanahan still had 2-7 this year to draft and the RG3 trade I did not have a problem with neither but the first two years of Shanahan tenure, Mike only hit on his first round picks in Williams and Kerrigan. 2-7 shows if a team has a quality scouting department and mentioned Nield who has been inactive this year more than seeing the field, Niles Paul drops more passes than he catches thus causing the team to use another pick this year at TE in Jordan Reed, unfortunate for Crawford, and Kirk Cousins a 4th round luxury pick that definitely needed to be a pick to help the front seven on pass rush or back end on coverage or even some offensive line help. A free agent backup qb would have been way better than using a 4th round pick on a player that sits the bench 80% of the year. And before you say Kirk Cousin will turn into a first round draft pick, Kirk was drafted in the 4th round for a reason. Many insiders believe if the Skins are remotely lucky a 2nd round pick would be the most this team would ever get for Cousins.

 

Cutting Hall was a no brainer at his age and the kind of year Hall had last year. Mind you, Garcon and Morgan were over paid to be here. Garcon has pained out but Morgan on the other hand is a bust. You say the wins will come, when in 10 years when the game has passed Shanahan by if the game has not already. Even if Shanahan does salvage this year, the man is 61 years old. Are the Skins going to keep him around like Dick LeBeau at 75. Just like players, I rather see a coach leave one year earlier than a year later passed his prime.

 

Oh you don't. What about K.C. or Detroit who has had way more garbage than the Skins.

 

I have been trying to stay out of this argument, b/c it seems to be going in circles...but I just had to respond to this one...

 

Item #1: Only hit on Williams and Kerrigan in his 1st two years in the 1st round. Who did he miss on?

Item #2: Nield has actually been injured. Not inactive.

Item #3: So Jordan Reed is a result of Paul dropping passes? So...he wasn't a good draft pick?

Item #4: We are back to the Kirk Cousins luxury pick...who should they have drafted? And please tell me how you had so-and-so all along and the FO doesn't know what their doing...rabble rabble rabble. QBs are extremely valuable--even overrated. Matt Flynn got how much from the Seahawks? I would not be surprised if the skins get something like a 2nd and 4th for him. Not to mention, no one was crying about Cousins when he beat the Browns last year.

Item #5: Hall...are you for or against him being on the roster? Because he is having an outstanding year...

Item #6: Morgan sucks, but are you arguing that Garcon isn't worth what they paid him?

[Rufus T Firefly]

When the new regime came in, they walked into a ****hole of a situation. No talent and completely adrift franchise. Since they've been here, they've had to rebuild an entire team ground up. We knew the defensive switch would take a while. Kyle runs a complicated offense and we have a very new QB coming off injury learning it. Weve been robbed of cap money and are short of picks. Its going to take time.

Stop yelling blow it up every time we dont win a superbowl, this is going to take time. You dont wash 20 years of stink off a sorry franchise ina few years.

The way Shanahan made decisions the first offseason is actually much MORE wrong-headed given the situation he inherited. Taking over a bad, aging dysfunctional team loaded with bad contracts, while switching to a 3-4 and having released a bunch of veterans, all in a year where there were virtually no free against and we had no 3rd round draft pick...... and then he trades picks for aging, injured players in the last year of their contracts. He completely crapped the bed that offseason, but ended up having a good draft day.

 

And the situation he took over doesn't really explain lack of discipline, bad clock management, horrendous special teams, a terrible d-coordinator and questionable play calling 4 years later.

[Riggo#44]

And the situation he took over doesn't really explain lack of discipline, bad clock management, horrendous special teams, a terrible d-coordinator and questionable play calling 4 years later.

 

You do realize our offense is one of the top in the league right? I'll give you terrible d-coordinator, Hasshat has to go, but getting rid of the Shannys now would be a huge mistake.

[Tatankgough]

Building on a previous post . . .

Tom Landry was 17-46-4 in his first five seasons as Dallas head coach.

Bill Walsh was 8-24 in his first two years in SF.

Jimmy Johnson was 8-24 in his first two years in Dallas.

Chuck Noll was 12-30 in his first three seasons with the Steelers.

I could keep going with this, but I think the point has been made.

 

If I am not mistaken all of these examples are of coaches that were in their first head coaching jobs and with their first teams as head coach in the NFL. Mike has been head coach with 2 different teams and also has a smililar history with all of those teams, bad defense and not many playoff appearances. Yes there was one Super Bowl, but that is old history now.

[knowledge316]

Shanny inherited a top 10 defense. He blew that up decided to run 3-4. That's fine by me, no issues here. However, he hired a guy from UFL. Haslett was never a good DC and he didn't want to run the 3-4 and he didn't get to pick his staff either. 

 

Let's see the team still has so many holes after 4 years: 3 Interior OL, DLs, MLBs, Safeties, Punter, Kicker, Punt Returner, Kick Returner, Special teams coach, Defensive coordinator. That's way too many holes. His decision to hire Haslett and keep him throughout his tenure is just awful judgment. Shanny already owns like 3 of the top 10 worst scoring defenses in Redskins history and is well on pace for the #1 spot after this season. Shanny hiring Burns, a guy who didn't have ST coaching experience is another awful judgment.

[Riggo#44]

Shanny inherited a top 10 defense. He blew that up decided to run 3-4. That's fine by me, no issues here. However, he hired a guy from UFL. Haslett was never a good DC and he didn't want to run the 3-4 and he didn't get to pick his staff either. 

 

Let's see the team still has so many holes after 4 years: 3 Interior OL, DLs, MLBs, Safeties, Punter, Kicker, Punt Returner, Kick Returner, Special teams coach, Defensive coordinator. That's way too many holes. His decision to hire Haslett and keep him throughout his tenure is just awful judgment. Shanny already owns like 3 of the top 10 worst scoring defenses in Redskins history and is well on pace for the #1 spot after this season. Shanny hiring Burns, a guy who didn't have ST coaching experience is another awful judgment.

 

I will not defend Haslett's hire. He's terrible. The right DC and I think our DL looks much better than it does...or LBs (minus Slowik) look better than they do. And Shanahan does not own the defense. Hasshat does.

 

Fix the D and I bet we go on a run next year.

[Rufus T Firefly]

You do realize our offense is one of the top in the league right? I'll give you terrible d-coordinator, Hasshat has to go, but getting rid of the Shannys now would be a huge mistake.

In terms of basic stats, we're near the top. Football Outsiders has us right in the middle of the pack offensively. Of course, we have spent the vast majority of our resources on offense, so it should be a strong unit.

 

And measuring coaches by where the units rank is pretty hollow. If you have the best talent in the league and you produce the 5th best unit, that doesn't make you a great coach.

[DieHardSkinsfanNJ]

Jim hasslett should have never been tired , idf our d does not have amazing talent the fact is they couldent stop a garbage vikings team with christian ponder and matt cassel

Hired

[knowledge316]

I will not defend Haslett's hire. He's terrible. The right DC and I think our DL looks much better than it does...or LBs (minus Slowik) look better than they do. And Shanahan does not own the defense. Hasshat does.

 

Fix the D and I bet we go on a run next year.

 

Yes, it's Haslett's defense. He's the DC. However, he didn't get to decide on his coaches, Shanny picked his staff. Shanny could have fired him already, yet he stuck with him through 4 years already. Shanny is the GM so that's all on Shanny. 

[DieHardSkinsfanNJ]

Hired i mean

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I say keep the Shanahan's for one more year and get rid of the ES status updates.  Who's with me!?!?

[s0crates]

If I am not mistaken all of these examples are of coaches that were in their first head coaching jobs and with their first teams as head coach in the NFL. Mike has been head coach with 2 different teams.

I also mentioned Bill Belichick and Dick Vermiel . . .

[Redskins Diehard]

The Post expert says to keep him so that settles it for me.  I've changed my mind.  Do not even let Shanahan get on the bus to Philly

[Dub70s]

The impatience, didn't Gibbs have bad years in the time he coached this team. I hope Snyder gives Sha-nah-nah-nah more time.

[Riggo#44]

In terms of basic stats, we're near the top. Football Outsiders has us right in the middle of the pack offensively. Of course, we have spent the vast majority of our resources on offense, so it should be a strong unit.

 

And measuring coaches by where the units rank is pretty hollow. If you have the best talent in the league and you produce the 5th best unit, that doesn't make you a great coach.

 

Wait, we have the best talent on offense? Our interior line regressed terribly from last year. Monty and Lich were graded very highly by Football Outsiders. We have a gaping hole at WR2 (although I like how Hank has played lately). Despite those defincies, we are moving the ball well on offense, so, dare I say, that Shanahan and Son deserve some credit there?

 

I know it's really "not cool" to praise Shanahan, but I think we take a major step back without him, should he get canned. Offensively anyway.

[Riggo#44]

Yes, it's Haslett's defense. He's the DC. However, he didn't get to decide on his coaches, Shanny picked his staff. Shanny could have fired him already, yet he stuck with him through 4 years already. Shanny is the GM so that's all on Shanny. 

 

Haslett actually had a good defense in 2011. Clearly that was the influence of Lou Spanos, and his defense has been crap now for 2 years (minus some serious smoke and mirrors at the end of last year). It wasn't inconceivable to give Haslett another year after the defense produced in 2011 and had a nice run last year.

 

As for his assistants--Lou Spanos should be our DC, honestly--him leaving for UCLA was a mistake. We should have done whatever it takes to keep him. I also think Raheem Moore has done a good job with what he has--Hall is playing the best football of his career. 

 

However, the scheme, in my opinion has been horrible. THAT is on Haslett. I know it's Shanny-bashing time on ES here, but really, it's really premature and ignorant. If we had a half-decent defense, we would be sitting at 6-3.

[Tarpon75]

I would say the decision to fire or keep MS will be influenced by how the season finishes and who is available.If potentially,the right guy is out there then maybe it's time for Mike to go.To fire him for the sake of firing him could be a huge mistake.Who is available,could the Redskins get the guy they want? I would argue that the hot college coach thing is always a gamble and more often than not doesn't pan out. Would they want to dip into the pile of retreads again? In any case there needs to be some changes made on defense and special teams in regard to coaching. If Mike doesn't want to give up either of those coordinators then he probably would be signing his on release. 

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

Sometimes you have to know when to cut your losses.

 

Mike is now a former shell of himself.  While I applaud him for coming back to put Dan on a path of righteousness.  He simply does not have what it takes to coach in today's NFL anymore.  Thinking back to Mike Holmgren when he was given the GM/ Coach Title, how effective was he? That then should've shown The Dan and Allen that those two roles do not mesh well by a sole person.

 

It's time to move on from this regime because as bad as Mike has been with his handling of the team, his assistance have been ten times worse.  This goes beyond discipline...

[Koolblue13]

Im assuming all the people who want a regime change feel that the current coaching team has had ample time to get the needed talent to run what they want to do and have really been able to teach a young QB whos coming off a juvenile scheme, where he basically got to do what he wanted.

I guess its also safe to assume when we bring in all these new FO people, you'll have all the patience in the world for them right?

Snyder has no history of firing coaches irrationally (except his first, which he admitted was wrong), so all this was moot. Good thing Danny has proven smarter than the majority of this fan base. Thats gotta hurt.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Im assuming all the people who want a regime change feel that the current coaching team has had ample time to get the needed talent to run what they want to do and have really been able to teach a young QB whos coming off a juvenile scheme, where he basically got to do what he wanted.

I guess its also safe to assume when we bring in all these new FO people, you'll have all the patience in the world for them right?

Snyder has no history of firing coaches irrationally (except his first, which he admitted was wrong), so all this was moot. Good thing Danny has proven smarter than the majority of this fan base. Thats gotta hurt.

I really don't understand this argument. 

 

Nearly everyone that wants him gone now has been more than patient since 2010. It's year four and that's the issue. A new staff would get the same patience...at least from me

[wit33]

I have absolutely zero interest in starting over with a new vision and coaching staff. I believe in the system but feel there is a lack of talent in some critical places. This offseason is will be key to adding the "toppings" to the team.

[Riggo#44]

I really don't understand this argument. 

 

Nearly everyone that wants him gone now has been more than patient since 2010. It's year four and that's the issue. A new staff would get the same patience...at least from me

 

No they haven't. People have been calling for his head since he benched McNabb.