Foxsports: Source, Teammates Bullied Martin

[TradeTheBeal!]

Incognito may well be everything Martin and others say he is, but...

 

I think this was a calculated move by Martin to quit playing football (because he doesn't enjoy it) while still receiving monetary compensation (via the inevitable lawsuits).  The kid is sharp and comes from a long line of lawyers.  He knows exactly what he's doing and Incognito is the perfect, I mean perfect, foil.

[WALEOVECHKIN]

Dolphins locker room lashed back today:

 

Brian Hartline on voice mail: "If I'm not mistaken, (Martin) is the same guy who was laughing about this voice mail at one point in time."

Hartline: "It's an honor to be in an NFL locker room. If you are not in an NFL locker room, you are the one at a loss, not the team."

 

Randy Starks said Dion Jordan and Jon Martin got into it at practice one day and Incognito came in to back up Martin.

 

Randy Starks: Incognito took Martin under his wings, was like a big brother to him.

 

Ryan Tannehill: "If you asked Jonathan Martin who his best friend is on this team two weeks ago, he'd say Richie Incognito."

 

Tannehill has strong words about the relationship between Incognito and Martin, noting Incognito was always first to be at Martin's side.

 

In reference to the prank that occurred before Martin left team, Tannehill says the team played the same prank on Tannehill multiple times.

 

Dolphins OL Tyson Clabo: Martin "needs to stand up and be a man. I don't know why he's doing this."

[DM72]

Incognito may well be everything Martin and others say he is, but... I think this was a calculated move by Martin to quit playing football (because he doesn't enjoy it) while still receiving monetary compensation (via the inevitable lawsuits).  The kid is sharp and comes from a long line of lawyers.  He knows exactly what he's doing and Incognito is the perfect, I mean perfect, foil.

And how can you honestly sit there and say that? I swear, I never have seen someone say the things this idiot has said to only have this many people backing him. But again, this doesn't surprise me.

[Hooper]

It's all speculation.

 

Maybe they're both crazy just in different ways.

 

Cracks me up when fans/sportswriters act all surprised and outraged at this kind of behavior. 

 

I had the lucky experience of being on the sidelines for a pro game once. The game is so damn fast and brutal and violent up close. I'm surprised more NFL players aren't completely out of their mind.

[Destino]

Ultimately it doesn't matter what anyone thinks of this because this situation was inevitable. Bullying is a national issue that has already changed the rules in k-12 schools all across the country, though I'm sure there are some holdouts. The days when Ogre and the football team relentlessly harassing nerds was seen as natural as Tom chasing Jerry are gone. Ogre is now the reason the kids are killing themselves. His behavior, when described outside of deranged old comedies, results in horrified expressions and bravely shared stories of a harrowing journey through teenage years at the mercy of bullies.

Some of you may not have been on the football team or even particularly tough in highschool. You know who you are and save the crap about a late growth spurt, we don't care. You folks may fondly remember spending some time in highschool joning with your friends. You might remember it as fun and humorous. Well those of you that do are bullies by today's standards because that crap will get you suspended. The definition of bullying has changed and you are now the equivalent of your racist grandparents sharing stories that made you cringe as a child. Making fun of people is simply not tolerated anymore and it most certainly isn't entertaining or funny. It's the stuff of nightmares that invariably leads to death and Pearl Jam.

This is the world many young people are growing up in today and some areas are earlier adopters that others. That means the NFL is going to get a good number of new recruits that grew up with radically different views on bullying and what constitutes bullying. Martin is the first of what will be many. The old school "it builds character" Ogres in the locker room are going to resist this change. After all admitting that what Richie Incognito was doing was horribly wrong would be self incrimination for many of them. They've done the same and they don't see a problem. They don't realize that the fight is already over.

The more the NFL looks into this the more players are going to say things like Martin's Miami team mates have, in support of Incognito, and the more the public will be horrified. Especially those members of the public with kids or those that were bullied themselves, which is apparently most people. Resistance is futile, the NFL will be a kinder gentler place. These heroic anachronisms that remain will be forced to be kinder, gentler, and less prone to extorting their younger teammates. This issue will come up again. It will come up more often in college and in the pros.

[grhqofb5]

Dolphins locker room lashed back today:

 

Brian Hartline on voice mail: "If I'm not mistaken, (Martin) is the same guy who was laughing about this voice mail at one point in time."

Hartline: "It's an honor to be in an NFL locker room. If you are not in an NFL locker room, you are the one at a loss, not the team."

 

Randy Starks said Dion Jordan and Jon Martin got into it at practice one day and Incognito came in to back up Martin.

 

Randy Starks: Incognito took Martin under his wings, was like a big brother to him.

 

Ryan Tannehill: "If you asked Jonathan Martin who his best friend is on this team two weeks ago, he'd say Richie Incognito."

 

Tannehill has strong words about the relationship between Incognito and Martin, noting Incognito was always first to be at Martin's side.

 

In reference to the prank that occurred before Martin left team, Tannehill says the team played the same prank on Tannehill multiple times.

 

Dolphins OL Tyson Clabo: Martin "needs to stand up and be a man. I don't know why he's doing this."

 

Ahh, the silent majority becomes unsilent. 

[grego]

Dolphins locker room lashed back today:

Brian Hartline on voice mail: "If I'm not mistaken, (Martin) is the same guy who was laughing about this voice mail at one point in time."

Hartline: "It's an honor to be in an NFL locker room. If you are not in an NFL locker room, you are the one at a loss, not the team."

Randy Starks said Dion Jordan and Jon Martin got into it at practice one day and Incognito came in to back up Martin.

Randy Starks: Incognito took Martin under his wings, was like a big brother to him.

Ryan Tannehill: "If you asked Jonathan Martin who his best friend is on this team two weeks ago, he'd say Richie Incognito."

Tannehill has strong words about the relationship between Incognito and Martin, noting Incognito was always first to be at Martin's side.

In reference to the prank that occurred before Martin left team, Tannehill says the team played the same prank on Tannehill multiple times.

Dolphins OL Tyson Clabo: Martin "needs to stand up and be a man. I don't know why he's doing this."

Tis an interesting twist.

If incognito is the douche most of us think he is, how do we make sense if this?

Is anyone on the dolphins backing Martin?

[88Comrade2000]

If Martin was joking around about this; then WTF.

[Taylor703]

Dolphins locker room lashed back today:

 

Brian Hartline on voice mail: "If I'm not mistaken, (Martin) is the same guy who was laughing about this voice mail at one point in time."

Hartline: "It's an honor to be in an NFL locker room. If you are not in an NFL locker room, you are the one at a loss, not the team."

 

Randy Starks said Dion Jordan and Jon Martin got into it at practice one day and Incognito came in to back up Martin.

 

Randy Starks: Incognito took Martin under his wings, was like a big brother to him.

 

Ryan Tannehill: "If you asked Jonathan Martin who his best friend is on this team two weeks ago, he'd say Richie Incognito."

 

Tannehill has strong words about the relationship between Incognito and Martin, noting Incognito was always first to be at Martin's side.

 

In reference to the prank that occurred before Martin left team, Tannehill says the team played the same prank on Tannehill multiple times.

 

Dolphins OL Tyson Clabo: Martin "needs to stand up and be a man. I don't know why he's doing this."

This guy has been in trouble multiple times, has physically hurt people multiple times, threatened people, generally has been an awful human-being and these idiots are tripping over themselves to defend him. I would say its unbelievable but sadly it's not anymore.

[zoony]

It's all speculation.

 

Maybe they're both crazy just in different ways.

 

Cracks me up when fans/sportswriters act all surprised and outraged at this kind of behavior. 

 

I had the lucky experience of being on the sidelines for a pro game once. The game is so damn fast and brutal and violent up close. I'm surprised more NFL players aren't completely out of their mind.

I'm always impressed at just how professional locker rooms are, at least the ones I've been in

To play in the nfl you have to be a Neanderthal you just do

[shangster]

Is anyone on the dolphins backing Martin?

Very good question. I think that most of it has to do with the dynamics of the locker room. There's an unwritten rule that "what goes on in the locker room stays in the locker room".

Now, I don't respect the opinion of someone like Mike Pouncey, and I don't know a lot about Mike Wallace, but I do respect an opinion from someone like Cameron Wake. It looks like all three of them sided with Incognito on this issue.

I think at this point, Martin will not play another down in the NFL again. I can't imagine any locker room could accept him.

[Mr. Sinister]

If Martin was joking around about this; then WTF.

 

Yeah, something very weird is going on

 

Even if Martin is miIking it, I still don't know how they're defending the dude after the voicemails that he left. Does all that still qualify as "Tough love?" Its ridiculous.

I think at this point, Martin will not play another down in the NFL again. I can't imagine any locker room could accept him.

 

I think you can pretty much guarantee that he'll be blackballed out of the league, the same way Kerry Rhodes was.

[Big Weirdo]

I wasn't making Incognito out to be a victim. Clearly he isn't. But if you see the way he acts and then his father allegedly posting about this on message boards well it doesn't take genius to figure out the apple didn't fall far from the tree.

This whole thing is so bizarre. You have guys defending Incognito and Martin, people saying they were best friends, people saying it's okay for Incognito to use the n word. There is so much we probably don't know. I don't know what to think.

And did anyone actually call this guy big weirdo. Come on. I WANT ANSWERS.

[shangster]

The situation is indeed very weird. I think if it wasn't for that racial slur or if Martin is a white player, the media wouldnt make this as big as it is.

On ESPN First Take, Antonio Pierce really condemned Martin in this situation, and he kinda, sorta on the corner of Incognito. One thing is clear, this is no longer a "race" issue.

As for the "Big Weirdo" nickname, I look at Martin and, I don't know.....lol

[DM72]

The situation is indeed very weird. I think if it wasn't for that racial slur or if Martin is a white player, the media wouldnt make this as big as it is.On ESPN First Take, Antonio Pierce really condemned Martin in this situation, and he kinda, sorta on the corner of Incognito. One thing is clear, this is no longer a "race" issue.As for the "Big Weirdo" nickname, I look at Martin and, I don't know.....lol

Calling someone a half****** is not a race issue? That's news to me.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

I'm surprised the Dolphins vets are coming out and defending racial slurs and death threats. But I'm not surprised the dolphins vets are defending Incognito in general. Think about it:

 

If the allegations that Martin was paying for trips to Vegas, night outings, club parties, fancy dinners, and all this stuff, I doubt Ritchie was reaping the benefits alone. You think Martin payed for Incognito to go the club all by himself? And racked up 15K in dining bills for one? Incognito was abusing this guy's desire to fit in for his own amusement, but they were likely ALL partaking. Someone went with Ritchie to the club. Someone sat at that dinner table with them. 

 

My guess is that Incognito has 5-15 names of guys who partied, got wasted, gorged themselves on fancy steak, took awesome vacations, and own wealthy possessions, all at the expense of Martin. And Incognito could burn them all by saying "yeah, we bullied Martin into paying for our ****. All ten of us. Here's the other nine guys."

 

Doesn't surprise me in the least that a bunch of black players are standing up for the guy. To me, the racially charged voice mail is only one factor at play.

[shangster]

Calling someone a half****** is not a race issue? That's news to me.

It was a race issue until black players in the locker room publicly voiced their support of Incognito. Not saying that it was right/wrong, but regarding the race issue, I think players in the locker room know a little more to the voice mail than we know so far.

[shangster]

I'm surprised the Dolphins vets are coming out and defending racial slurs and death threats. But I'm not surprised the dolphins vets are defending Incognito in general. Think about it:

If the allegations that Martin was paying for trips to Vegas, night outings, club parties, fancy dinners, and all this stuff, I doubt Ritchie was reaping the benefits alone. You think Martin payed for Incognito to go the club all by himself? And racked up 15K in dining bills for one? Incognito was abusing this guy's desire to fit in for his own amusement, but they were likely ALL partaking. Someone went with Ritchie to the club. Someone sat at that dinner table with them.

My guess is that Incognito has 5-15 names of guys who partied, got wasted, gorged themselves on fancy steak, took awesome vacations, and own wealthy possessions, all at the expense of Martin. And Incognito could burn them all by saying "yeah, we bullied Martin into paying for our ****. All ten of us. Here's the other nine guys."

Doesn't surprise me in the least that a bunch of black players are standing up for the guy. To me, the racially charged voice mail is only one factor at play.

Remember that the Dolphins and the NFL did (and is currently doing) an extensive investigation about it. If other players were involved (which I'm sure there are some but not to the degree of Incognito) and were as guilty, their names would have been exposed by now.

[MartinC]

If I were a veteran, I'd try and help every rookie do their absolute best in order to help the team win.  I wouldn't care who they were, where they came from or anything else.  Winning is the only thing that matters and I'd want all my teamates happy and ready to play.  I hope this helps put hazing on the shelf.

 

I totally agree with your comments about hazing. I played sports for a long time and at a good level (including a brief flirtation with the world of professional sports) and then coached as well. There was some good natured 'ritual of joining a group' stuff but never any serious hazing in all my time in many locker rooms (or dressing rooms as we call them in the UK). I would not have tolerated it as player (rookie or veteran) and certainly not as a coach.

 

However I want to pick up the point you make above. Lets not forget that a rookie making the team means a veteran player loses his job. You might help the rookie once he and you have made the team but your attitude during OTAs and camp when you are competing against him for a job might be a little different. Not all veterans are very helpful even after the season starts - the rookie might be a backup and the veteran starter is not going to be all that keen to help him learn the tricks of the trade which might have him demoted while the rookie starts.

 

Professional sports is a dog eat dog world.  

If the allegations that Martin was paying for trips to Vegas, night outings, club parties, fancy dinners, and all this stuff, I doubt Ritchie was reaping the benefits alone. You think Martin payed for Incognito to go the club all by himself? And racked up 15K in dining bills for one? Incognito was abusing this guy's desire to fit in for his own amusement, but they were likely ALL partaking. Someone went with Ritchie to the club. Someone sat at that dinner table with them. 

 

I think you have misunderstood that part of the story. What happens at a lot of clubs is that players organise a Vegas trip (looks like this was the O'Line group) and they all put money in the pot to book hotel rooms and, well, lets call it 'entertainment'. Seems like Martin did not want to go on the trip but felt pressured to put the $15K into the pot anyway.

 

There does seem to be a wider culture though at the Dolphins were veterans felt able to ask rookies for money for a range of other things on an individual or group basis. 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Incognito may well be everything Martin and others say he is, but...

 

I think this was a calculated move by Martin to quit playing football (because he doesn't enjoy it) while still receiving monetary compensation (via the inevitable lawsuits).  The kid is sharp and comes from a long line of lawyers.  He knows exactly what he's doing and Incognito is the perfect, I mean perfect, foil.

In perusing various Dolphins boards this seems to be the prevailing thought.

 

It seems that Martin's dedication to football was questioned by the entire organization. Front office, coaches, teammates etc.

 

And I suspect that's why he's not getting much support from his teammates.

 

 

The scouting report on him coming out of Stanford was that he's soft and so far that has been the case in the pros.

[pjfootballer]

I totally agree with your comments about hazing. I played sports for a long time and at a good level (including a brief flirtation with the world of professional sports) and then coached as well. There was some good natured 'ritual of joining a group' stuff but never any serious hazing in all my time in many locker rooms (or dressing rooms as we call them in the UK). I would not have tolerated it as player (rookie or veteran) and certainly not as a coach.

However I want to pick up the point you make above. Lets not forget that a rookie making the team means a veteran player loses his job. You might help the rookie once he and you have made the team but your attitude during OTAs and camp when you are competing against him for a job might be a little different. Not all veterans are very helpful even after the season starts - the rookie might be a backup and the veteran starter is not going to be all that keen to help him learn the tricks of the trade which might have him demoted while the rookie starts.

Professional sports is a dog eat dog world.

Of course. I guess my assumption was that all positions were set.

[LeesburgSkinFan]

It's being speculated by many on the team and many reporting on the story that this whole thing was Jonathan Martin's way to quit football after realizing he no longer wanted to play and this whole incident was orchestrated by him as his exit strategy to leave and still get his money.

[MrJL]

yeah, I guess he stole Incognito's phone and sent himself those messages

[MartinC]

It's being speculated by many on the team and many reporting on the story that this whole thing was Jonathan Martin's way to quit football after realizing he no longer wanted to play and this whole incident was orchestrated by him as his exit strategy to leave and still get his money.

 

That seems far fetched. It was not Martin making the threatening phone calls or indulging in the lower level abuse or cold shouldering himself. He may not have loved football, he may be using whats happened as a reason to justify a decision to walk away he may have made sooner or later himself - but that does not excuse what seems to have been going on here.

[RonArtest15]

I don't believe the story that Martin is simply using Incognito as a way to get out of football.  What's sad is that incognito is starting to become a sympathetic figure in all of this SMH.  With all the things the dolphins players are saying in support of RI, it still doesn't explain why Martin stormed out of the facility and is in treatment.