Foxsports: Source, Teammates Bullied Martin

[grhqofb5]

Rather straight forward question: Does the fact that Incognito used the ****** make him a racist? If so, why are his black teammates standing up for him?  Maybe I'm a bit late to the game here, but perhaps his words do not reflect his behavior, which I believe provide better insight into whether a person is a "racist."

 

For instance, I'm sure that there are plenty of white people and black people that simply avoid other races without being verbose in their reasoning.  Perhaps they refuse to hire someone of a different race, do not let their children play with another race, insist that they not socialize with another race.  All while ultimately remaining silent.  Incognito does not strike me as a "racist" by this standard. He's in a room with mostly people of another race, and appears to have thrived and built some strong relationships. So instead of being a racist, per se, he's just a vulgar dumbass who used the most profane, unacceptable, disparaging word he could find to get a reaction. And he knew that it was acceptable as long as it stayed in-house. Welcome to the NFL.

 

EDIT: I assumed, incorrectly, that the profanity filters would pick up the "n-word," so I apologize for not catching this sooner.

[JoeWolf990]

[darrelgreenie]

It is about Martin, no doubt, but I find it hard to believe that.....

You don't have to believe it. 

 

How am I leaping to conclusions when Mike Wallace and other teammates came out publicly and stated they did not think Incognito bullied Martin, nor did they think he was a racist?  And do you honestly think just because Incognito is on a teams leadership counsel that he has some majestic power over all the other teammates in the locker room and can brainwash them into taking his side?

 You are leaping to conclusions by basing your opinions on what others are saying. How Wallace and other teammates feels about Martin/Incognito doesn't matter.

Fact: When you put an unqualified or worse person in a leadership position the negative effects trickle down.

 

 Any other workplace, both are fired for their actions.  Don't believe that, duplicate what either man did to a co-worker of yours and see what happens

I am not sure why you keep going back to this point? I am not sure what you think it proves?

And fyi i've been in insular work environments that mirror that of a locker room.

[darrelgreenie]

Rather straight forward question: Does the fact that Incognito used the "n-word" make him a racist? If so, why are his black teammates standing up for him?  Maybe I'm a bit late to the game here, but perhaps his words do not reflect his behavior, which I believe provide better insight into whether a person is a "racist."

 Seriously.

Do me a favor and edit your post so I don't have to report it.

I don't like seeing that word and I'm not sure why you think its okay to post it.

Whether or not some of his teammates stand up for him doesn't matter. And whether or not he is a racist doesn't change the fact that he used a racist word either through ignorance (doubtful) or intention (likely).

.......And he knew that it was acceptable as long as it stayed in-house. Welcome to the NFL.

Negative my friend. Doing something that is unacceptable with the knowledge or expectation that you can get away with it because of circumstance is wrong on many different levels.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Joe, I couldn't have said it better than Shannon Sharpe himself.  It's unacceptable on the part of Incognito and unacceptable on the part of the entire Miami Dolphins team/locker room.  Incognito should not and probably will not ever play in the NFL again, and he shouldn't.  

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that point or defending Incognito with the exception of his teammates in Miami.  

 

Can we all agree though that both men were acting like children/idiots and their behavior was unacceptable regardless?  And that in any other place of work in most of America, both men's actions would be enough to get them fired?  

 

Incognitos comments were racial in nature and completely unacceptable, they leaked to the public once Martin quit the team, he got fired from the Dolphins.  Martin's text and other information has since leaked showing that he participated in this as well and while his message was not racist in tone, it would be enough to get him fired anywhere else.

 

As far as the bullying allegation, well after the investigators sort through all 1000+ text messages between the two, maybe a definite answer will be established, but up to this point, Martin is going to have a hard time proving he was bullied based on what we know so far.  

[DM72]

Shannon is 100% right on this. He could not have said it any better.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

You don't have to believe it. 

 

 You are leaping to conclusions by basing your opinions on what others are saying. How Wallace and other teammates feels about Martin/Incognito doesn't matter.

Fact: When you put an unqualified or worse person in a leadership position the negative effects trickle down.

 

I am not sure why you keep going back to this point? I am not sure what you think it proves?

And fyi i've been in insular work environments that mirror that of a locker room.

DG,

 

1] With the evidence we have and what we know right now and comparing that with how myself and most people handled bullying, I draw the conclusion that Martin in fact wasn't bullied.  Once we know more facts, perhaps a clear cut case of bullying will be established.   

 

2]  It doesn't matter, or at least it shouldn't and I agree with your statement about leadership positions.  But in the case of the investigation, what their teammates say and how they feel about Incognito/Martin's relationship could matter.  Especially if no other evidence of bullying surfaces from the text messages.  If they find say 10 more cases of threats/etc. from Incognito to Martin and none from Martin, then yes, investigators will more than likely not care what the teammates say because it's a slam dunk case.  But if no other evidence comes out, then their opinions become the only remaining leads in the case.

 

3]  I am bringing up that point because after the meme Martin sent Incognito with a message about killing his family got revealed, everyone wants to say that's ok and fine that Martin did that.  It had to be done out of fun/humor because it was a meme, etc.

 

My point is, Martin participated in childish behavior with Incognito and is not the saint he first was portrayed to be.  And it's not ok to send stuff like that to a co-worker.  Just because it wasn't racist in tone does not make it right for Martin to send threatening memes.  

 

I've worked in some ****ty places in my life, where the work environment was horrible too.  I'm saying that in MOST places, either mans actions would get them fired.  This is about equally judging both men's actions as to what is acceptable and what is not acceptable.

 

Look at it like this, on a scale of 100, Incognito took it to a 100 (racial slur + threatening co-worker+crude talk about mother and poop).  Martin took it to say a 92  (threatening co-workers family).  Sure, Incognito's was way worse, but Martin's was bad/horrible as well. Just because he didn't take it to the same level as Incognito, doesn't mean he didn't take it past an unacceptable level himself. 

[darrelgreenie]

DG, I am bringing up that point because after the meme Martin sent Incognito with a message about killing his family got revealed, everyone wants to say that's ok and fine that Martin did that.......Sure, Incognito's was way worse, but Martin's was bad/horrible as well. Just because he didn't take it to the same level as Incognito, doesn't mean he didn't take it past an unacceptable level himself. 

I think there are 2 key points you're missing. (a) Martin did not use a racial slur ( b ) Incognito wasn't offended

 

And we're not talking about any other workplace but the Dolphin's locker room so again I don't understand the relevance of your point about 'any other workplace.'

 

And I loved the workplace I mentioned that was like locker room it wasn't horrible at all more like a brotherhood, but there are always lines you do not cross.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

I think there are 2 key points you're missing. (a) Martin did not use a racial slur ( b ) Incognito wasn't offended

 

And we're not talking about any other workplace but the Dolphin's locker room so again I don't understand the relevance of your point about 'any other workplace.'

 

And I loved the workplace I mentioned that was like locker room it wasn't horrible at all more like a brotherhood, but there are always lines you do not cross.

 

To pick your brain and get a better understanding of your take on what behavior is acceptable or not.  

 

Hypothetically speaking, let's say Martin never left the team and we have no knowledge of Incognito's racial slur/threatening VM he left to Martin.  Matin's meme gets leaked to the press, Incognito is confronted and says he did feel threatened for his family based on the meme Martin sent.  Should Martin be fired from the team?  

 

If not, then why?  

[darrelgreenie]

To pick your brain and get a better understanding of your take on what behavior is acceptable or not.

I think the point you are missing here is that it doesn't matter what you or me think is acceptable its what the offended/bullied/harrased person finds acceptable. Bottom line for me is that Incognito was not offended by Martin's comments. AND Incognito comments offended Martin AND included a racial slur which is offensive regardless of whether or not Martin/Incogntio were offended.

Did you know that some locker rooms (Romeo Crenel for sure and I believe Tony Dungy) outlawed the n-word? For everyone black or white. 

 

Hypothetically speaking, let's say Martin never left the team and we have no knowledge of Incognito's racial slur/threatening VM he left to Martin.  Matin's meme gets leaked to the press, Incognito is confronted and says he did feel threatened for his family based on the meme Martin sent.  Should Martin be fired from the team?

According to your hypothetical? Sure, if Incognito felt threatened for his family based on meme then yes Martin should be dealt with.

[RonArtest15]

Good on Shannon Sharpe.  As the days have gone on, I think I'm more disgusted at the culture in the Dolphins locker room more than anything else.  The fact that you have black men condoning Incognito's use of racial slurs is extremely disappointing.  I'd be curious to get their takes on the Riley Cooper situation.  I'm willing to bet their viewpoints on Cooper would completely contradict what they said about their "honorary" black man, Incognito.  It's a bad look on a number of levels. 

[Bubble Screen]

Speaking of Sharpe: you guys have got to watch the skits on SNL with the guy imitating Sharpe. Hilarious. Lol

[instinct21]

I'm sorry but after you reach a certain age it's no longer called bullying. Society is very sensitive to the word and has been thrown around too much. Martin was not bullied he just couldn't handle Incognito's strong, over bearing personality day-to-day. If Martin had a problem, speak up man to man, don't run away and cry bullying. I have no respect, as a man, for Martin.

[RonArtest15]

I'm sorry but after you reach a certain age it's no longer called bullying. Society is very sensitive to the word and has been thrown around too much. Martin was not bullied he just couldn't handle Incognito's strong, over bearing personality day-to-day. If Martin had a problem, speak up man to man, don't run away and cry bullying. I have no respect, as a man, for Martin.

 

Harrassment....

 

There is only so much someone can take.  If it was as simple as speaking up man to man, Martin wouldn't have checked himself into a treatment facility. 

 

What people don't realize is that not everyone is alpha.  *gasp* Even in a football team's locker room. 

[JoeWolf990]

I'm sorry but after you reach a certain age it's no longer called bullying. Society is very sensitive to the word and has been thrown around too much. Martin was not bullied he just couldn't handle Incognito's strong, over bearing personality day-to-day. If Martin had a problem, speak up man to man, don't run away and cry bullying. I have no respect, as a man, for Martin.

this is ridiculous.

bullying happens everywhere and all ages. Happens in the workplace all over America.

[instinct21]

Harrassment....

 

There is only so much someone can take.  If it was as simple as speaking up man to man, Martin wouldn't have checked himself into a treatment facility. 

 

What people don't realize is that not everyone is alpha.  *gasp* Even in a football team's locker room. 

 

 Harassment? A person being harassed doesn't go around showing off the message to peers laughing about it. Martin's actions contradict his claims.

 

I'm pretty sure his lawyer told him to check himself in to a treatment facility...just sounds like something a lawyer would want you to do to build a case. Not buying the sob story. Martin lost his starting LT spot and was moved to RT...he just quit and Incognito was the perfect scapegoat.

[RonArtest15]

 Harassment? A person being harassed doesn't go around showing off the message to peers laughing about it. Martin's actions contradict his claims.

 

I'm pretty sure his lawyer told him to check himself in to a treatment facility...just sounds like something a lawyer would want you to do to build a case. Not buying the sob story. Martin lost his starting LT spot and was moved to RT...he just quit and Incognito was the perfect scapegoat.

 

Since you're making assumptions, I'll do the same. 

 

I'll say that Martin was going along and "laughing" at the text messages b/c it was a last resort.  As it's been pointed out, many times people who are bullied will go along with the torment, thinking it will lessen the onslaught. 

 

You don't buy the sob story and I don't buy Incognito becoming a sympathetic figure in all of this through being a scapegoat. 

 

The whole Dolphins locker room is ****ed up.  Shannon Sharpe hit the nail on the head. 

[Bubble Screen]

Bottom line, Incognito is a meathead that never grew up, and Martin is a big puss. Seriously, what grown ass man lets another man take money from him?

[WALEOVECHKIN]

Martin after he got bumped back to RT: “You can be one of those guys that ****es and moans and is a cancer in the locker room or you can be a guy that is going to be out there, be a professional and play as hard as I can. My mindset is I’m going to go out there and try to be better and do everything I can to help this team win.”

 

He played one game and within a week left the team.

 

Incognito filed a grievance against the Dolphins today, as well.

[Destino]

 

The problems for the Miami Dolphins may soon extend beyond player-on-player harassment. According to two sources, suspended guard Richie Incognito and at least one other player mocked the ethnic background of a team staff member and made crude jokes about the staff member’s wife.

 

According to one of the sources, Incognito would sometimes dress in garb from the staff member’s culture and then make profane jokes about that culture. A second source said that at least one other player joined in on the antics, creating an extremely uncomfortable environment for the staff member.

 

Worse, Incognito said on a number of occasions that the staff member’s wife had sexual relationships with several members of the team.

 

The most troubling element to this is that the behavior was done in view of other team staff members and was allowed to go on without being curtailed by team management or front-office staff.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Miami-players-may-have-harassed-team-staffer.html

[grhqofb5]

www.nfl.com

 

So, looks like the investigation into this one by Ted Wells has been shut down.  All subsequent meetings with Incognito, Martin, and other Dolphins players have been cancelled.  Can't copy the link for some reason but its on several websites.

[Leonard Washington]

Here's a link that might work:

 

http://www.thephinsider.com/2013/12/10/5197988/ted-wells-cancels-planned-interviews-with-dolphins-players-bully-gate

 

I assume they are delaying it because the dolphins are in the playoff hunt. 

[88Comrade2000]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000325899/article/summary-of-ted-wells-report-on-miami-dolphins

 

 

Well the report is now out on the Jonathan MArtin Bullying.   My guess, Ross has no choice but to fire all the coaches and front office people remaining that allowed this culture to develop.

 

 

I think Miami will be having an opening soon and I expect Goodell to levy a heavy fine and maybe take away draft picks.

[darrelgreenie]

I don't think anyone is getting fired on the Dolphin's staff other then Turner.

Pouncey might be get some sort of discipline from the team.

[RonArtest15]

Between his dealings w/ Hernandez and some of the **** that went on behind the scenes w/ the Dolphins...not to mention how ****ing stupid he is, I would completely expect Mike Pouncey to be in jail by the end of 2014.