Foxsports: Source, Teammates Bullied Martin

[WALEOVECHKIN]

Glazer also confirmed that Martin texted Incognito a few weeks ago, "I'm going to murder your entire ****ing family"

[Mr. Sinister]

Wtf. This is without a doubt the strangest **** I've ever heard... Probably second to Teo's fake GF

[Destino]

This doesn't look strange at all to me. People play along with abusive cultures because if they don't it gets worse. Why do you guys think rookies actually agree to pay those crazy amounts for dinner and other things? Think its because they want to or agree with it? I doubt it. It's likely because if they say or do something that puts them at odds with the stupidity going on then suddenly they're a problem that needs to be worked out.

I will say this looks less like a bullying problem and more like hazing and systematic abuse. You've got coaches asking guys to toughen up other guys and try to fight them or make them angry. You've got players extorting money, ridiculously large amounts of money, out of rookies. This goes way beyond carrying pads and maybe a stupid haircut and it's happening all over the league. More than anything though I can't help but laugh at the belief that any if that is necessary to play football. I would love a poll that asked players, anonymously if they thought that they'd be able to play at a high level without any of that bull**** and with a professional environment instead. I'd bet good money that an overwhelming majority would say that they'd be just fine without that crap.

It might be coaches that prefer it as it makes it easier for them to keep guys in line. If you aren't trying hard they can tell someone to attack you and try to fight you in practice. That certainly would make managing my employees easier if I could have an enforcer that showed up to push people around that spent too much time surfing the web and not working. Must be nice to have ridiculously illegal options at your disposal with everyone pretending that its ok because football is tough manly thing that people just don't understand.

[Destino]

Glazer also confirmed that Martin texted Incognito a few weeks ago, "I'm going to murder your entire ****ing family"

According to a Martins lawyer it was an Internet meme IMAGE. I can't post the image because it's got a bad word in it but here is the lawyers tweet. https://twitter.com/wmdavidcornwell/status/399643019386707968

If that's true and Glazer just left out that little detail, then I hope he's getting paid for his advocacy.

[Unforgiven]

According to a Martins lawyer it was an Internet meme IMAGE. I can't post the image because it's got a bad word in it but here is the lawyers tweet. https://twitter.com/wmdavidcornwell/status/399643019386707968

If that's true and Glazer just left out that little detail, then I hope he's getting paid for his advocacy.

 

I think it still makes the point that this type of language and humor was going both ways. It shows that Martin found humor in that kind of language and shared it with people he considered his friends (specifically Incognito).

 

I'm not going to begin to make an excuse for Incognito including a racial slur in his message, even if his teammates found it acceptable for him to use the word in a locker room setting. The thing is though its pretty obvious at this point that this type of humor wasn't obviously one-sided and threatening and that Martin engaged in the same sort of behavior.

 

Also, I'd have to re-watch it but I don't think Glazer specifically confirmed that line, he simply said Incognito said it, the word-for-word quotes he gave were from other messages showing that Martin talked to Incognito after leaving and told him he didn't blame him (Incognito) or other teammates. These guys were obviously friends of some type, considering they had 1100+ text messages going back and forth, with humor that would be considered vulgar coming from both....the type of thing you would say to a friend because you know they wouldn't take it the wrong way.

 

Obviously at some point something went on that caused Martin to leave but it's still very unclear what that was.

 

I have disliked Incognito for quite a while because I felt like he was a dirty player who was not above taking a cheap shot late on an opponent with the intent of injuring them but it's pretty obvious at this point while he may be an idiot this isn't a one-sided story by any stretch of the imagination.

[Destino]

 

All 30 NBA teams received a memo from the league office Friday reminding them that no form of bullying or hazing will be tolerated, according to league sources.

The memo, sources said, references the Miami Dolphins' ongoing bullying scandal and urges NBA players to report anything if they feel the need while also spelling out specific violations of the league's policies.

 

Sources said the memo reiterated a number of prohibited behaviors that would violate league policy.

 

The lengthy list of violations, sources said, includes: any physical abuse or threats of violence; verbal abuse focused on an individual's race, nationality, color, gender, age, religion, sexuality, etc.; destruction, defacement or theft of a fellow player's personal property; engaging in any activity that intimidates or threatens fellow players with ostracism or inflicts extreme mental stress, embarrassment, humiliation or shame; and forcing an individual to engage in any activity or perform any task that violates federal, state or local law or NBA rules and regulations.

 

Also prohibited, sources said, is requiring an individual to unreasonably pay for meals, travel, entertainment expenses, goods or services that are being solely enjoyed by others as well as imposing physical activities on a fellow player -- such as exposure to weather, confinement in a restricted area, or consumption of food, liquid or substance -- that leads to unreasonable risk for the individual or adversely affects their mental or physical health or safety

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9947939/nba-teams-receive-memo-reminding-bullying-not-tolerated

 

The NBA made it clear that they want no part of this kind of nonsense.  I wonder if this latest NFL scandal is pushing people even further into the "play anything but football" camp.  If this kind of behavior is part and parcel of football culture, just add it to the list of things parents would probably prefer to avoid entirely. 

 

No matter how this thing with Martin and Incognito turns out I expect Goodell move to stamp out this type of behavior or at least appear to do so.  This story lands while the nation as a whole is really looking to stamp out bullying, which is to say that it's the worst possible time.  I'm betting that those that are not football fans are aware of the story and predictably horrified by it, as are mothers with sons telling them they'd like to try out for the football team. 

[RonArtest15]

According to a Martins lawyer it was an Internet meme IMAGE. I can't post the image because it's got a bad word in it but here is the lawyers tweet. https://twitter.com/wmdavidcornwell/status/399643019386707968

If that's true and Glazer just left out that little detail, then I hope he's getting paid for his advocacy.

 

I heard what Glazer initially said and thought one way about the situation.  However, after learning there was a meme attached to it (saw the pic), that can be considered innocous in comparison to calling someone a "half-N'." 

 

Honestly, I see one as CLEARLY being playful...the other, not so much.  A line was obviously crossed. 

[justice98]

I didn't care for Incognito trying to come off as a good guy that's misunderstood. You are what your record says you are.  Even if this Martin thing never happened, what he's about is well documented.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

I hate Incognito as a player and think he's a piece of crap as a person (from what I read).  However, one cannot deny that just because Martin sent him a meme of "I'll kill your entire family" that its any more acceptable than what Incognito texted him, racial slur excluded.  

 

It appears that both men were acting childish, being jerks to one another, etc.  They exchanged over 1000 text messages over the past couple of years, that's insane.  And Martin texts him calling him "bro" and says he didn't leave because of him, etc.   The entire locker room is behind Incognito and former players and friends with both men all state that Martin/Incognito were friends, etc.

 

The truth is finally coming out.  It's not one sided as previously thought and the entire thing has just gotten extremely weird/strange.  Who texts "their bully" 4 days after quitting their team saying they don't blame him or his teammates.  

 

Also, could his parents/family be pushing this in attempts to make a name for themselves nationally or attempt to try and sue the NFL/Dolphins for hostile working conditions or simply punish Incognito because of the racial slur?  Both are Harvard grads, father is in Criminal Justice and his mother is a corporate lawyer for Toyota.  

 

Once I heard about his parents careers and being Harvard grads, I thought something fishy could be going on and that was before any of the current news we just found out (i.e. him threatening Incognitos family, texting him 4 days after he quit not blaming him, and the 1000+ text msg exchanges between the two).

 

Again, not defending Incognito, but this just keeps getting stranger and stranger each day.

[Destino]

I hate Incognito as a player and think he's a piece of crap as a person (from what I read). However, one cannot deny that just because Martin sent him a meme of "I'll kill your entire family" that its any more acceptable than what Incognito texted him, racial slur excluded.

There is a sizable difference in sharing a funny picture, in this case one making light of the dogs murderous expression, and texts or words actually directed at a person.

[grhqofb5]

Man, I wonder what people would think if what Charles Haley did in the locker room (on a regular basis) in the 1980s and 1990s was spread all over twitter and the internet.  Ronnie Lott, Joe Montana, Bill Walsh, Jerry Rice, Jimmy Johnson, Troy Aikman, and Emmitt Smith would all have to be released for failing to show leadership. Hostile work environment in Miami? 

[JoeWolf990]

There is a sizable difference in sharing a funny picture, in this case one making light of the dogs murderous expression, and texts or words actually directed at a person.

you would think that, right? lol

[darrelgreenie]

I sure there is a lot that went on there that we don't now yet.

But I'm not sure why people think that Ritchie and Martin being 'friends' in any way changes the dynamic of their relationship.

Their friendship has no impact on whether or not bullying occured, I've often seen bullies hide behind the guise of friendship.

[Hooper]

Man, I wonder what people would think if what Charles Haley did in the locker room (on a regular basis) in the 1980s and 1990s was spread all over twitter and the internet.  Ronnie Lott, Joe Montana, Bill Walsh, Jerry Rice, Jimmy Johnson, Troy Aikman, and Emmitt Smith would all have to be released for failing to show leadership. Hostile work environment in Miami? 

Ha! Ever read "Boys Will Be Boys"?

 

Haley would jerk it in meetings!

[Chachie]

Man, I wonder what people would think if what Charles Haley did in the locker room (on a regular basis) in the 1980s and 1990s was spread all over twitter and the internet.  Ronnie Lott, Joe Montana, Bill Walsh, Jerry Rice, Jimmy Johnson, Troy Aikman, and Emmitt Smith would all have to be released for failing to show leadership. Hostile work environment in Miami? 

 

 

What did Haley do?

[Bang]

I read it,, Haley was unreal.. he brought used toilet paper and tried to push it in Barry Switzer's ear.. he would play with himself in meetings,, he jerked in in Joe Montana's ear one time in the locker room while loudly hooting about Mrs. Montana...
There is an entire chapter devoted to Haley's antics in that book.
Or, you could save yourself some time and listen to this old "Best of" episode of the Bang Radio Hour, and we go over all of it.


It's not our place. As jim Mora said long ago,, do not open that door, you will not understand it.

But as a society not only do we open the door, now we feel we must change something that does not affect us in any way.
I almost wonder why we don't just set aside a day every week,, maybe Wednesday, in which we all go over to our neighbors and lay down our expectations of what things about their family they must change to appease us.

~Bang

[Hooper]

Michael Irvin stabbed a teammate in the throat and the cowboys covered it up.

 

But at least he didn't send him a mean text.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

you would think that, right? lol

The point I'm trying to make is, it's obvious that the two men now appear to have been friends and joking at each other.  Sure, Incognito took it to an unacceptable level, I don't think that anyone can say otherwise.  

 

I got bullied as a kid until I started to stand up for myself.  I didn't hang out with or befriend my bullies in order to make it less or go away.  I'm not defending Incognito or implying that Martin should have taken a different approach.  But with all the facts starting to come out now, Martin did not appear to be bullied by Incognito as he claimed.  

 

I find it hard to believe that anything would stick given his 1000+ text messages between him and Incognito, one saying he would kill his family (yes it was a meme, but Incog claimed that was how they joked around with each other) and simply the text he voluntarily sent him four days after leaving the team stating that he does not blame Incognito or anyone of the guys for his departure.

 

And ask yourself this, you receive a meme from a co-worker that says, "I'm going to kill your entire ****ing family."  It makes it ok because it was written as a meme with a smiling woman and dog?  What would you do?  What actions would you take?  

 

What makes this even more difficult is the fact that what is harassing to one person is not to another.  I use the F-bomb a lot, Person A might find it offensive/vulgar and harassing in sexual nature while Person B doesn't curse, but could care less about other people saying it.  I don't see anything substantial at this point to prove Incognito bullied Martin at all.  

 

The only fact I see is that Incognito coming across as a racist.  But then all of his teammates, both African American and white all state he's not.  

 

In real workplaces, both men would be fired for both of their actions, period.  I have seen people at my work fired for 100 times less.  And maybe that is the point the Martin camp is trying to make, but you cant be a hypocrite and partake in the same actions/jokes, then out of the blue get all hurt over it.  

[Mr. Sinister]

Michael Irvin stabbed a teammate in the throat and the cowboys covered it up.

 

But at least he didn't send him a mean text.

 

I must hear more about this

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

I must hear more about this

Here is an article from ESPN back in 2008:  http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=pearlman/081016

[Hooper]

I must hear more about this

I forget all the details, but basically --

 

They were a team barber shop or something.

 

The other guy was a special teamer/not a key player.

 

Said something that pissed off Irvin.

 

Irvin lost it, stabbed him with scissors.

 

Guy didn't die. Cowboys covered the whole thing up.

[Mr. Sinister]

Speaking for myself, I don't pretend to be naive to what goes on in certain organizations, or in law enforcement/politics and branches of the military. I read LT's "Over The Edge" book, that detailed his drug use/addiction, and just how rampant it was in their locker room, and how they all would routinely look for their annual weekly barfights, and how it all led to him destroying almost everything he had, and ending up holed up in a crack den.

 

Many people like that (and actors, to a degree) think that they are above the law, and are enabled by the people in their environment to engage in all kinds of crazy ass behavior. My question is... Is that necessary to perform to your best ability in said profession? If it isn't, then why do people have an issue with people who have an issue with it? Should that be considered normal?

 

Do you have to be a ****ty individual to be a great pro athlete? Police Officer? Soldier? Do people really think that asking dudes to chill with **** like stabbing, or other physical/verbal isolated abuse incidences, is going to destroy a profession/way of life? Should it be tolerated, because "That's just the way it is?"

 

Now I'm not saying everybody should hold hands and sing kumbaya (by all means bust each others balls, cuss like sailors, make lewd jokes, etc). I've been in work environments like that, and have worked alongside of dudes that I definitely wouldn't hang with outside of work all that much, and I've seen and heard some crazy ****... But never anything like stabbing a dude in the throat, jacking off in a dudes ear, or making one dudes life a living hell. Generally, though we toed the line many times, we didn't cross it. Most dudes (in order to make their job go as smoothly as possible) ultimately wanted the best out of every guy in there.)

 

I just don't think its asking all that much.

[darrelgreenie]

...But with all the facts starting to come out now, Martin did not appear to be bullied by Incognito as he claimed...

What facts lead you to believe that Martin was not bullied by Incognito? Their 'friendship'?

I've personally witnessed bullying between 'friends' in fact some of the worst bullying i've seen was between 'friends'.

 

and simply the text he voluntarily sent him four days after leaving the team stating that he does not blame Incognito or anyone of the guys for his departure.

 

That text is strange but I don't know what it means in the grand scheme. 

 

[Destino]

It's not our place. As jim Mora said long ago,, do not open that door, you will not understand it.

But as a society not only do we open the door, now we feel we must change something that does not affect us in any way.

I almost wonder why we don't just set aside a day every week,, maybe Wednesday, in which we all go over to our neighbors and lay down our expectations of what things about their family they must change to appease us.

~Bang

Regulating the workplace is going too far? I'm not buying this romanticized crap about a locker room being sacred. Its no more sacred than a board room.

[JoeWolf990]

The point I'm trying to make is, it's obvious that the two men now appear to have been friends and joking at each other.  Sure, Incognito took it to an unacceptable level, I don't think that anyone can say otherwise.  

 

I got bullied as a kid until I started to stand up for myself.  I didn't hang out with or befriend my bullies in order to make it less or go away.  I'm not defending Incognito or implying that Martin should have taken a different approach.  But with all the facts starting to come out now, Martin did not appear to be bullied by Incognito as he claimed.  

 

I find it hard to believe that anything would stick given his 1000+ text messages between him and Incognito, one saying he would kill his family (yes it was a meme, but Incog claimed that was how they joked around with each other) and simply the text he voluntarily sent him four days after leaving the team stating that he does not blame Incognito or anyone of the guys for his departure.

 

And ask yourself this, you receive a meme from a co-worker that says, "I'm going to kill your entire ****ing family."  It makes it ok because it was written as a meme with a smiling woman and dog?  What would you do?  What actions would you take?  

 

What makes this even more difficult is the fact that what is harassing to one person is not to another.  I use the F-bomb a lot, Person A might find it offensive/vulgar and harassing in sexual nature while Person B doesn't curse, but could care less about other people saying it.  I don't see anything substantial at this point to prove Incognito bullied Martin at all.  

 

The only fact I see is that Incognito coming across as a racist.  But then all of his teammates, both African American and white all state he's not.  

 

In real workplaces, both men would be fired for both of their actions, period.  I have seen people at my work fired for 100 times less.  And maybe that is the point the Martin camp is trying to make, but you cant be a hypocrite and partake in the same actions/jokes, then out of the blue get all hurt over it.

bruh, he called him "half a n*****"

I have never heard anyone use that statement in a joking and friendly matter. NEVER!

I have no idea what the dynamics of their relationship is, but I know that isnt a statement used by friends.