Is Griffin A Good Enough Pocket Passer?

[MartinC]

LOL and you have access to tape?  LOLOLOL  I rewatch the games aka "tape" on my tablet too.  LMFAO  Tape...  Like you're a coach.  hahaha.  And I'm sure the guy that named himself after Robert isn't biased at all. LOL

Getting access to the All 22 coaches view is quite easy, it's part of my Gamepass subscription and is normally available by about Wednesday. Of course having access to that and knowing what you are looking at are two very different things.

[RiverboatGambler]

It was bad at pass pro but it was Roberts legs that made the offense what it was last year.  Without that element, everything falls apart.  I think that's why people feel like Kirk could spark the offense because for either health reasons or willingness, he'd more than likely provide more mobility than Robert right now.  I dunno, if I agree.  Robert is very reluctant to run right now...  I get that.  But it's to the detriment of the offense. 

So we're either fine with the offense sucking until he improves his pocket skills, or runs more.

Yea kirk ran really well in preseason ... Really well... Well enough to end up with a sprained foot. He is not a runner. He has decent mobility for a prototypical QB but he is not the answer with this O-line. Might as well let robert go through the fire and develop as a pocket passer. He doesnt trust his knee but that doesnt mean he isn't healed. Doc wouldn't let him out there if he wasn't structurally sound. Not after what happened in the She-hawks game.

[NoCalMike]

Can we please stop comparing what RGIII & Kap did against Green Bay.  Do you guys do anything more than look at stat lines? Kap plays behind perhaps the best pass blocking O-line in football, He had all day to throw the ball, there was virtually no pass rush at all ever.

 

Kap looked like a lost duck last night vs. Seattle once he had pressure in his face. He looked worse than RGIII has looked ever.  3 INTs.  Russell Wilson didn't look much better throwing the ball, I think he was 9-18 142 yards.

 

RGIII plays behind a terrible O-line that was helped out in 2012 by the read option because it didn't allow for teams to bring much pressure at all.

[redskins4ever28]

This fan base is passionate, but this is ridiculous guys.  Honestly, his stats might be padded a tad bit, but when he was in shot gun and had his receivers spread out, he threw some beautiful balls, and had some really nice reads.  Jeez man, when were getting blown out, Grossman, CAmpbell, Mcnabb, Brunell, Ramsey, and all the other ones still looked absolutely terrible.  When Denver blew out Giants, Eli still was bad even in "garbage time"  When Denver blew out the Ravens in week one, Flacco still looked bad in "garbage time"  Kaepernick was a joke last night even in "garbage time" 

BUT NO ONE SAYS A WORD ABOUT THEM!  But our own guy who just had his freaking knee completely redone for the SECOND time gets the "his stats are being padded in garbage time"

GIVE ME A BREAK!

Every qb we had before Robert couldnt even get 300 yards/3tds in garbage time or not.  Not one QB we had before Robert ever played good in garbage time.  Hes actually playing well in "garbage time" and now thats you guys' complaint?  What the hell?

You guys are worse then Steeler fans the way you turn on your QB.   You know what the saddest part is?  Griffin really isnt mentally ready to come back and play, you can tell.  But he worked his arse off to get back, for love of the game and all of you.  Seriously, he didnt get more $, he coulda taken off all year if he wanted, but he loves the game and loves the fans and has a passion.  We should all be proud of him for even trying.  We should all be happy that we are STILL NFC East champions.  You guys all wanted him back right away, all of you were giving him the most ridiculous unrealistic expectations, just like last year, and because hes a little rusty and pretty much only at 75% health, you guys start cursing him. You guys start a mutiny the moment he throws a pick?!?!

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

[Ozymandias]

Wait, you mean he is actually doing ok and it's more to do with rust and returning from a major knee injury and it may take time to get his legs, confidence and trust back in his game and body?

 

Yeah, I agree but so many on here want to go ahead and move on because he isn't 2012 Thanksgiving game RG3 right out of the gate.

 

Wait, you mean he is actually doing ok and it's more to do with rust and returning from a major knee injury and it may take time to get his legs, confidence and trust back in his game and body?

 

Yeah, I agree but so many on here want to go ahead and move on because he isn't 2012 Thanksgiving game RG3 right out of the gate.

 

Wait, you mean he is actually doing ok and it's more to do with rust and returning from a major knee injury and it may take time to get his legs, confidence and trust back in his game and body?

 

Yeah, I agree but so many on here want to go ahead and move on because he isn't 2012 Thanksgiving game RG3 right out of the gate.

 

Lol its the day after a loss, people get carried away. Im actually quite pleased with how he is playing. Do people realize that for the most part of last season, RG3 was a ridiculous 70%+ passer? That was largly because he could break a run for 50 yards at any point in the game, but people need to realize that HES COMING OFF A TORN ACL AND MCL. Adrian Peterson is a freak, we cant compare his recovery to RG3s. Give him time, he'll improve, hes too much of a competitor not too.

 

EDIT* i dont know why that was quoted 3 times. Tried deleting it but the whole post would delete.

[HOF44]

You guys all wanted him back right away, all of you were giving him the most ridiculous unrealistic expectations, just like last year, and because hes a little rusty and pretty much only at 75% health, you guys start cursing him. You guys start a mutiny the moment he throws a pick?!?!

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Don't lump me in with that.  I have posted all along the EARLIEST he should have been back was after the bye.  He is clearly not ready to play but the Skins find themselves in a quandry now.  How can they take him out???  I think at this point in time the team would achieve more with Cousins.  I actually don't think Griffin will be back to himself for a good while.   History shows for most players it's the year after they come back they the return to normal.  Peterson is an outlier. 

[SJValleySkinz]

You don't think he threw with accuracy, and had good footwork last year?  I clearly implied that he didn't have good pocket awareness last year, but I did not imply that he struggled throwing the football, missing receivers and sailing the ball all over the place. That's what I meant by "Everything is off."

 

I thought you meant pocket awareness, which to me is the reason everything is off. It's a COMPLETELY different ball game in terms of processing information now and IMO that effects his throwing ability because the hesitation (along with poor pass protection and play calling) because it effects his footwork and even throwing motion. His throwing talent is incredible nobody can argue that.

[Chachie]

In my humble opinion he isn't, but there's no reason other than injuries or the rehiring of Cerrato that he can't become one.

 

 

He's accurate and efficient. The stats will tell you that. He needs work on his long ball but the knee strength coming back will help. I'll keep saying it- Robert Griffin III is NOT our problem right now. We're a bad football team all around.

[Warhead36]

The team wasn't that good last year, but RG3's brilliance mixed with the zone read amplifying his strengths and hiding his weaknesses allowed us to win 10 games.

 

Now RG3 has sunk to mediocrity and with that the offense is no longer a factor. So we're basically the same 5 or 6 win team we were in Shanny's first two years.

[SJValleySkinz]

He's accurate and efficient. The stats will tell you that. He needs work on his long ball but the knee strength coming back will help. I'll keep saying it- Robert Griffin III is NOT our problem right now. We're a bad football team all around.

 

He's accurate because his throwing talent is other worldly, but forget the stats for a second and look at what is happening on the field with your own two eyes. He's hesitating on his throws (diagnostic skills), not manipulating the pocket (awareness, footwork) and is hit and miss at best at recognizing what the defense is throwing at him. It is impossible, not almost impossible, not virtually impossible but impossible period to come into the NFL with his football background and just pull these traits our your rear end. He's a worker and very intelligent so he can get there but it takes reps that he does not yet have.

[NoCalMike]

RGIII's lack of being an effective dual threat is exposing the offense itself.  One thing we have to realize is that Kap & Wilson were gifted super bowl contending teams when they were drafted.  RGIII took over a 6-10 team.

 

If RGIII was playing behind an O-line like SF's or Seattle's, he would probably have a much smoother time coming back from the knee injury.

 

The issue I am having right now is that the Shanahan's don't seem to be modifying the system they are running to adjust to RGIII's physical capabilities. Instead they are trying to run a half-assed version of what the team did last season, instead of just running something similar to what they had Cousins do against the Browns.  It makes no sense, and it seems from the press conferences since the Green Bay loss that RGIII is sort of saying too that they will need to make adjustments to what they are running for the time being.

[Chachie]

He's accurate because his throwing talent is other worldly, but forget the stats for a second and look at what is happening on the field with your own two eyes. He's hesitating on his throws (diagnostic skills), not manipulating the pocket (awareness, footwork) and is hit and miss at best at recognizing what the defense is throwing at him. It is impossible, not almost impossible, not virtually impossible but impossible period to come into the NFL with his football background and just pull these traits our your rear end. He's a worker and very intelligent so he can get there but it takes reps that he does not yet have.

 

 

Okay now I think we're making the same point. He's a good pocket passer who is recovering from major knee surgery and didn't have a preseason. Those are the two reasons I'm putting up for the deficiencies you're seeing.

 

My point is that he's actually doing a good job out there in spite of his injury and our gawd awful defense. The Redskins overall are sucking. Badly.

[TheBlueIndian]

What I don't understand and maybe someone here can explain it to me is why are we concerned with making RG III a "pocket" passer.

 

Based on what we saw from him last year in the pocket he clearly has the acumen to be an exceptional pocket passer, but it is his speed and elusiveness that allow him to be a step above exceptional.

 

 

Why take the fastest guy on the field and limit him, unless he is still hurting. I cant believe that is what the Shanahans, RG II and RGIII himself want to do why on earth would you.

 

If I have a skill that I can beat you with at anything.....I am going to use that skill to whip your tail until you figure out how to stop me...All day .....everyday.

 

I am growing increasingly annoyed with the whole thing being played out in the media in an attempt to scoop some great storyline. Really ? RGIII and his pops and Dr Andrews are dictating plays and such to the Shanahanns. Usually the most obvious answer is the correct one. He isn't fully recovered and that takes time. I understand why we are playing him because even on one leg he is better than half the league, we saw that last year. 

[Hooper]

What pocket? You want to see a pocket? Did you see manning bowl? What Peyton has is a CLEAN pocket. It is poetry in motion. Robert is throwing in a new york city back alley at 2 am with 3 gangbangers mugging him.

I don't think Robert faced any more pressure than the average QB yesterday. Trent Williams destroyed Clay Matthews all day long yesterday and we picked up the blitz better than the Packers did. 

 

But teams will keep blitzing us like crazy until Robert shows he can beat the blitz with his feet or his arm. He hasn't so far but he will.

He's accurate because his throwing talent is other worldly, but forget the stats for a second and look at what is happening on the field with your own two eyes. He's hesitating on his throws (diagnostic skills), not manipulating the pocket (awareness, footwork) and is hit and miss at best at recognizing what the defense is throwing at him. It is impossible, not almost impossible, not virtually impossible but impossible period to come into the NFL with his football background and just pull these traits our your rear end. He's a worker and very intelligent so he can get there but it takes reps that he does not yet have.

This. One hundred percent. 

[darrelgreenie]

But teams will keep blitzing us like crazy until Robert shows he can beat the blitz with his feet or his arm. He hasn't so far but he will.

Last year Griffin without a doubt shredded the blitz. He'll get there.

[Taylor703]

-Hooper

 

While Polumbus always struggles, the truth is the interior OL is getting destroyed and the pocket is collapsing immediately. 

[Hooper]

-Hooper

 

While Polumbus always struggles, the truth is the interior OL is getting destroyed and the pocket is collapsing immediately. 

It was better yesterday than the first game. 

 

And there have been plays to be made that he simply has to make.

[NoCalMike]

People are nitpicking though.  You can't say "well hey 1 drop back out of 10 he got good protection and he didn't make a play" In general the pass protection has been awful, so to act like it is realistic to count on everything to go right the one time he gets pass protection is silly.

 

Last year RGIII had plenty of time to throw most times and it helped the passing game.

 

We saw last night with Kap & Russell Wilson what happens when other QBs experience shoddy pass protection. Jaworski's two heros of the offseason looked awfully bad and inaccurate with defenders constantly getting on them.  No one is screaming that they are no good and that they "need to make plays" 

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

What I don't understand and maybe someone here can explain it to me is why are we concerned with making RG III a "pocket" passer.

 

Based on what we saw from him last year in the pocket he clearly has the acumen to be an exceptional pocket passer, but it is his speed and elusiveness that allow him to be a step above exceptional.

 

 

Why take the fastest guy on the field and limit him, unless he is still hurting. I cant believe that is what the Shanahans, RG II and RGIII himself want to do why on earth would you.

 

If I have a skill that I can beat you with at anything.....I am going to use that skill to whip your tail until you figure out how to stop me...All day .....everyday.

 

I am growing increasingly annoyed with the whole thing being played out in the media in an attempt to scoop some great storyline. Really ? RGIII and his pops and Dr Andrews are dictating plays and such to the Shanahanns. Usually the most obvious answer is the correct one. He isn't fully recovered and that takes time. I understand why we are playing him because even on one leg he is better than half the league, we saw that last year. 

On one leg he was better than half the league, it was two games (Philly and Dallas) and we barely beat both of them.  Philly was one of the worst teams last year and during the Dallas game, well we all know who the king of that game was, Morris.  In the playoffs, he was a lot better off than the previous two games (as far as the sprain went), however, we ran Morris down their throat and they didn't know what to do.  

 

He is clearly not right because of (insert excuse/answer here) and was brought back to early.  I will retract what I said about both games being on him, the first one was an overall horrible team performance against a very below average team.  People keep wanting to blame the defense for the first loss, well, when your offense turns the ball over where and like we did its almost impossible to come back from that.  Plus after the first half, our defense did a lot better job.  

 

Last week, the defense was hanging in there against one of the best offensive teams in the NFL, but when the offense failed to convert 3rd downs and put points on the board for an entire half, that cant happen.  Sure, the defense was overall horrible (missed tackles, penalties, etc.) but we already knew that going into the season.  Our entire overall team performance depends on RG3 being/playing at the level he did last year.  If he cannot do that right now, then it's simple, bench him, put in Cousins until he is fully ready to play.

 

RG3, when a threat with his feet/arm in read option or making plays, scrambling, makes the o-line better, the running game better, the passing game better, clock management better (by sustaining drives, keeping the clock going) and gives the defense plenty of needed rest during the game.  The play of the offense helps the defense directly, unless you have one of the top 5 defenses that can keep you in the game despite the putrid play of their offense (see Tampa Bay a few years before their SB win).  

 

With the above said, RG3 is not playing like he did last year exposes the offense and gets the defense gassed.  Is it fair to put that type of responsibility on one person?  Sure, absolutely, the QB is the leader of the team and 90% of the time the play of the offense impacts the defense (i.e. field position, keeping the off the field and fresh, etc.).  There is a reason that QBs are the highest paid players on teams (for the most part), ignoring the rookie salary cap in place now, look at the ridiculous contracts that position alone would fetch before the kid even took the field.  Look now at what really good/great/elite QBs make.  

[Hooper]

People are nitpicking though.  You can't say "well hey 1 drop back out of 10 he got good protection and he didn't make a play" In general the pass protection has been awful, so to act like it is realistic to count on everything to go right the one time he gets pass protection is silly.

Sorry, but this is false. Pass protection was fine -- if not very good -- against Green Bay.

[BraunMan92]

RGIII's lack of being an effective dual threat is exposing the offense itself.  One thing we have to realize is that Kap & Wilson were gifted super bowl contending teams when they were drafted.  RGIII took over a 6-10 team.

 

Not true for Seattle.  They missed the playoffs in 2011-2012 and we beat them at their house with Rex Grossman.  They only emerged as a serious threat last season.

[RiverboatGambler]

.

[BobGriffin]

Well our offense functioned fine against Philly Dallas and Seattle with a decreased reliance on the R/O and Robert is much more healthy then he was then so I don't think it's just that he is not a threat to run. Our offensive issued run much deeper.

[Murphs56]

That pocket looks like it's been collapsing pretty quick. Offensive line has to do a much better job protecting Robert

[NoCalMike]

Not true for Seattle.  They missed the playoffs in 2011-2012 and we beat them at their house with Rex Grossman.  They only emerged as a serious threat last season.

 

But what was the strength of Seattle in 2012? Outside of a few games it was their defense and running game. Wilson wasn't the focal point of the team the way RGIII was here.

Well our offense functioned fine against Philly Dallas and Seattle with a decreased reliance on the R/O and Robert is much more healthy then he was then so I don't think it's just that he is not a threat to run. Our offensive issued run much deeper.

 

Right but the THREAT was still there because even not at 100% RGIII was still running the read option, and taking off around the corner.

 

He is faster now then he was with that big bulky brace on at the end of last season, but you can see that he doesn't trust his body yet. He has the injury on his mind and is out there playing to avoid getting re-injured.  It's natural, there is nothing that can be done about the mental aspect of the recovery. The only thing that will fix that is live reps and time. However opposing defenses saw this immediately and are merely crashing down any time the team gets into the pistol, anticipating a handoff to Morris and that is exactly what is happening.