Jump to content
Washington Football Team Logo
Extremeskins

Is Griffin A Good Enough Pocket Passer?


The Trashman

Recommended Posts

The anti RGIII agenda that has been going on since last year is once again distorting reality in order to make their argument stick, this time by the nebulous concept of "garbage time".

 

The Eagles game was a one possession game people. We were down by a score with 1:01 to go and nearly came away with an onside kick. If RGIII had scored another touchdown to win the game, do the previous 2 touchdowns suddenly become "not garbage" time? Especially since the Eagles DC specifically said they did NOT go to a soft zone, they were still running their gameplan and attacking RGIII. Just because fairweather fans FELT the game was over at half doesn't mean it actually was.

 

Last game, we actually put some drives together but because of our nightmarish kicking situation and Morgan's bobbled catchh, we lost at least 6 points we easily could have had. Meanwhile the defense got torched for another score to put the game out of reach. If the score was 31-20 with 8 to go, let alone 31-23 or 31-26, is RGIII's 3 touchdowns garbage time then?

 

The fact is, the concept of "garbage time" is being manipulated to suit an agenda where black RGIII sucks because he's not running (and we have so called fans saying RGIII can *never* be a pure pocket passer) and needs to be replaced by the white "pure pocket passer" Cousins. However, it's not based in any kind of reality. The reality is - RGIII started slow, then started to play really well. Nothing more, nothing less. With even an average defense, both games are winnable.However, we don't have that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The anti RGIII agenda that has been going on since last year is once again distorting reality in order to make their argument stick, this time by the nebulous concept of "garbage time".

 

The Eagles game was a one possession game people. We were down by a score with 1:01 to go and nearly came away with an onside kick. If RGIII had scored another touchdown to win the game, do the previous 2 touchdowns suddenly become "not garbage" time? Especially since the Eagles DC specifically said they did NOT go to a soft zone, they were still running their gameplan and attacking RGIII. Just because fairweather fans FELT the game was over at half doesn't mean it actually was.

 

Last game, we actually put some drives together but because of our nightmarish kicking situation and Morgan's bobbled catchh, we lost at least 6 points we easily could have had. Meanwhile the defense got torched for another score to put the game out of reach. If the score was 31-20 with 8 to go, let alone 31-23 or 31-26, is RGIII's 3 touchdowns garbage time then?

 

The fact is, the concept of "garbage time" is being manipulated to suit an agenda where RGIII sucks and needs to be replaced by the "pure pocket passer" Cousins. However, it's not based in any kind of reality. The reality is - RGIII started slow, then started to play really well. Nothing more, nothing less. With even an average defense, both games are winnable.However, we don't have that.

Thank you. I am out of Likes for the day but your analysis is spot on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 the reason i see it as a problem is because its almost giving up on the season. sure rg3 needs the reps, but its coming at a cost of losing games. if rg3 can't do the full playbook, they he needs to sit until hes 100%, because hes obviously not ready. right now, i think we have a better chance of winning with cousins at qb.

 

 

I'm not sure Kirk would make a difference. RG3's throwing isn't really an issue. We'd be missing the same running capability with Kirk under center. That's why I say it's a catch-22. 

 

However, I get your point. The season is slipping away. I just think this was set in motion the minute Griffin went down vs. Seattle. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The anti RGIII agenda that has been going on since last year is once again distorting reality in order to make their argument stick, this time by the nebulous concept of "garbage time".

 

The Eagles game was a one possession game people. We were down by a score with 1:01 to go and nearly came away with an onside kick. If RGIII had scored another touchdown to win the game, do the previous 2 touchdowns suddenly become "not garbage" time? Especially since the Eagles DC specifically said they did NOT go to a soft zone, they were still running their gameplan and attacking RGIII. Just because fairweather fans FELT the game was over at half doesn't mean it actually was.

 

Last game, we actually put some drives together but because of our nightmarish kicking situation and Morgan's bobbled catchh, we lost at least 6 points we easily could have had. Meanwhile the defense got torched for another score to put the game out of reach. If the score was 31-20 with 8 to go, let alone 31-23 or 31-26, is RGIII's 3 touchdowns garbage time then?

 

The fact is, the concept of "garbage time" is being manipulated to suit an agenda where black RGIII sucks because he's not running (and we have so called fans saying RGIII can *never* be a pure pocket passer) and needs to be replaced by the white "pure pocket passer" Cousins. However, it's not based in any kind of reality. The reality is - RGIII started slow, then started to play really well. Nothing more, nothing less. With even an average defense, both games are winnable.However, we don't have that.

I'm black...and I think his stats are meaningless. The race issue is buffoonery. Yeah, there may be a few idiots that feel that way but I'm sure everyone else is just being realistic.

 

LET ME GET THIS POINT ACROSS: JUST BECAUSE I THINK HE ISN'T PLAYING WELL, IT DOES NOT MEAN I WANT HIM BENCHED. I'M JUST NOT DELUSIONAL.

 

Can any of you tell me why our offense only plays well when they are down 3+ scores? If he was playing well, why couldn't he and the receivers do jack **** when the game was competitive?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Robert Griffin Experience,

 

Good analysis until you turned it into a race thing. 

 

There is no denying that RG3 has played better in the second halves of games.  He has played well when there isn't really any pressure to play well.  The game is seemingly out of reach and our offense all of a sudden begins to move the ball.  There is correlation between rg3 second half stats and opposing defensive strategies whether you want to admit it or not.  The play calls may be similar but there is no urgency on the opposing defense because there's no real threat of losing the game.

 

And randomly taking points away from the Packers and adding them to the Redskins does not really help your argument much.  If A happened, B is not a given.  So if we hold the Packers out of the end zone on one possession it is not guaranteed that they don't make it up elsewhere.  Likewise, if Morgan catches that pass it is not a given that he outmuscles Clay Matthews for a first down. 

 

I get your points, but it's all a strawman argument because the facts are the facts and we have concrete evidence of RG3 playing significantly better after the proverbial dogs have been called off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The anti RGIII agenda that has been going on since last year is once again distorting reality in order to make their argument stick, this time by the nebulous concept of "garbage time".

 

The Eagles game was a one possession game people. We were down by a score with 1:01 to go and nearly came away with an onside kick. If RGIII had scored another touchdown to win the game, do the previous 2 touchdowns suddenly become "not garbage" time? Especially since the Eagles DC specifically said they did NOT go to a soft zone, they were still running their gameplan and attacking RGIII. Just because fairweather fans FELT the game was over at half doesn't mean it actually was.

 

Last game, we actually put some drives together but because of our nightmarish kicking situation and Morgan's bobbled catchh, we lost at least 6 points we easily could have had. Meanwhile the defense got torched for another score to put the game out of reach. If the score was 31-20 with 8 to go, let alone 31-23 or 31-26, is RGIII's 3 touchdowns garbage time then?

 

The fact is, the concept of "garbage time" is being manipulated to suit an agenda where black RGIII sucks because he's not running (and we have so called fans saying RGIII can *never* be a pure pocket passer) and needs to be replaced by the white "pure pocket passer" Cousins. However, it's not based in any kind of reality. The reality is - RGIII started slow, then started to play really well. Nothing more, nothing less. With even an average defense, both games are winnable.However, we don't have that.

 

 

Why does every argument have to come back to race? It's ridiculous. RG3 is the better QB WHEN HEALTHY. The guy is not himself right now because he is not 100%. His accuracy has been poor at best. He needs to play through it and get better. He will, but it might be too late for this season. What a ridiculous post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The stats are worthless. It's all garbage time stat padding.

 

RG3 is not a good pocket passer, at all. He looks like Campbell back there, lost and confused, and missing guys badly. He doesn't look off defenders and he struggles throwing to spots(aka throwing guys open). Yeah if a guy is open he can hit him, and he's got that corner fade to Moss down pat, but that's about it.

 

Can he get better? Sure he can. But if the goal is to win games this year, either Cousins needs to play or we need to go back to the read option. Of course, the read option is a moot point if RG3 is still hurt which I think he is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1: People are really desperate to ignore the racial subtext because it brings up some really uncomfortable questions about how we unconsciously stereotype people based on skin color but it's there, and if you can't see it, you're blind. Literally every black QB in recent memory has gone through it except Wilson and Kaep (and they will as soon as they struggle/get hurt/etc).

 

2: Our offense struggles because:

 

1: We're trying to run last year's formation without the element that makes it go, Robert's running (and it's not that he can't run, for whatever reason he...isn't, he may be just be trying to protect the knee mentally). When we start spreading the ball out, going for quick passes and YAC, and trying to scheme guys open, then Robert starts being able to make plays with his arm, which gets Morris open, etc.

 

Basically we need less Denver/Houston WCO with read option mixed in and more like Kelly/McDaniels spread. Our offensive playcalling is pretty clearly different in the 2nd half versus the first.

 

2: RGIII needs more time to settle in - he's facing heavy pressure, pressure he didn't really face last year, and he's needing more time to adjust to it. By the half, that's happened.

 

3: Possibly regression to the mean - 20-24 points in a game is probably what we should expect from the offense right now, and that's what we're getting. We're just getting it later in games. And the whole garbage time argument presupposes some rather ridiculous counterfactuals, like "RGIII wouldn't have gotten that touchdown if the Packers were only up 20-7 or 20-14". The utter stupidity of that statement is incredible, yet that's exactly the statement Redskins "fans" are making.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Robert Griffin Experience,

 

Good analysis until you turned it into a race thing. 

 

There is no denying that RG3 has played better in the second halves of games.  He has played well when there isn't really any pressure to play well.  The game is seemingly out of reach and our offense all of a sudden begins to move the ball.  There is correlation between rg3 second half stats and opposing defensive strategies whether you want to admit it or not.  The play calls may be similar but there is no urgency on the opposing defense because there's no real threat of losing the game.

 

And randomly taking points away from the Packers and adding them to the Redskins does not really help your argument much.  If A happened, B is not a given.  So if we hold the Packers out of the end zone on one possession it is not guaranteed that they don't make it up elsewhere.  Likewise, if Morgan catches that pass it is not a given that he outmuscles Clay Matthews for a first down. 

 

I get your points, but it's all a strawman argument because the facts are the facts and we have concrete evidence of RG3 playing significantly better after the proverbial dogs have been called oIf our recievers could catch passes that hit them in the hands then his 1h numbers would be much better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1: People are really desperate to ignore the racial subtext because it brings up some really uncomfortable questions about how we unconsciously stereotype people based on skin color but it's there, and if you can't see it, you're blind. Literally every black QB in recent memory has gone through it except Wilson and Kaep.

 

2: Our offense struggles because:

 

1: We're trying to run last year's formation without the element that makes it go, Robert's running (and it's not that he can't run, for whatever reason he...isn't, he may be just be trying to protect the knee mentally). When we start spreading the ball out, going for quick passes and YAC, and trying to scheme guys open, then Robert starts being able to make plays with his arm, which gets Morris open, etc.

 

Basically we need less Denver/Houston WCO with read option mixed in and more like Kelly/McDaniels spread. Our offensive playcalling is pretty clearly different in the 2nd half versus the first.

 

2: RGIII needs more time to settle in - he's facing heavy pressure, pressure he didn't really face last year, and he's needing more time to adjust to it. By the half, that's happened.

 

3: Possibly regression to the mean - 20-24 points in a game is probably what we should expect from the offense right now, and that's what we're getting. We're just getting it later in games. And the whole garbage time argument presupposes some rather ridiculous counterfactuals, like "RGIII wouldn't have gotten that touchdown if the Packers were only up 20-7 or 20-14". The utter stupidity of that statement is incredible, yet that's exactly the statement Redskins "fans" are making.

Soooo....So I'm wrong for thinking the same offense that has scored 0 points and has 0 third down conversions during competitive parts of games would be able to do late in a close game??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Riverboat,

Like I said. Even if Morgan makes that catch he probably doesn't outmuscle Matthews and get a first down. Kicker still misses the kick.

What other dropped passes did we have? I can think of one off the top of my head and that's Fred Davis dropping a ball. Other than that, our offense stalled a bunch just like they did the week before. We looked better than the Eagles game, but we are still coming up with no points.

At this point we can't play the "what if" game because it's not preseason and it's not post-season. We are squarely in the middle of a terrible showing by this Redskins TEAM. Every single facet of this team is playing terrible football, RG3 is not excluded. You don't get brownie points for being a first round pick with a good head on your shoulders and a good personality.

I think the RG3 who went 14-15 for 200 yards and 4 tds is way better than the RG3 who now throws for 320 yards and 3 tds. But hey at least his stats are better this year than last year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Riverboat,

Like I said. Even if Morgan makes that catch he probably doesn't outmuscle Matthews and get a first down. Kicker still misses the kick.

What other dropped passes did we have? I can think of one off the top of my head and that's Fred Davis dropping a ball. Other than that, our offense stalled a bunch just like they did the week before. We looked better than the Eagles game, but we are still coming up with no points.

At this point we can't play the "what if" game because it's not preseason and it's not post-season. We are squarely in the middle of a terrible showing by this Redskins TEAM. Every single facet of this team is playing terrible football, RG3 is not excluded. You don't get brownie points for being a first round pick with a good head on your shoulders and a good personality.

I think the RG3 who went 14-15 for 200 yards and 4 tds is way better than the RG3 who now throws for 320 yards and 3 tds. But hey at least his stats are better this year than last year.

I think you are misunderstanfing me... I am not saying Robert doesnt need to play better. I am saying patience is a virtue and there is no phase of the game that we are good at right now. Robert needs time. Pull him and cousins will get killed behind the o-line. we will damage both QBs trade value and split the fanbase and the locker room. Robert has earned a the benefit of the doubt and no part of our game is good enough to win playoff games at this point anyhow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes - Robert is a good enough pocket passer.  When he has time, his passes are very accurate - notice the crossing patterns - WRs get the ball in stride.  He also is good at putting the ball high or low when needed to help the WR.  He did this all last year and is still doing it.

 

Now, when he stays in a collapsing pocket and the throws are a little off, the WRs need to pull their weight and make some tough catches.  Make some of these and we have a few more first downs.  More first downs and we have more AlMo and (easy) play action passes. 

 

As for pocket presence, I am not sure how much he has to learn.  On the CB (or safety) sack from his backside.  I think he knew the guy was coming and decided to stay in the pocket to see if he could make a throw in time.  No one comes open, so he holds tightly to the ball (unlike Grossman) and takes the sack.  I actually liked that play in the sense that he didn't force a bad throw, didn't try to run (backwards) to escape the pocket (even last year he doesn't get away)  and he holds the ball when tackled.  Can't remember, but I think the sack came on first down. 

 

Robert is still THE MAN and when the rest of the offense steps up (Morgan, AlMo, Moss, Davis, interior oline.....) we will be fine on offense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Soooo....So I'm wrong for thinking the same offense that has scored 0 points and has 0 third down conversions during competitive parts of games would be able to do late in a close game??

 

The Eagles game was competitive. We very nearly came back and won the game, all on the strength of our offense.

The Packers game was not as competitive, but it wasn't entirely out of reach. How many TDs would RGIII would have to have scored for it not to be garbage time? 4? 5? Because he could have scored 5 TDs like Peyton Manning and still lost. And keep in mind that it easily could have been 50+ given up. If the Packers ever took their foot off the gas, it was on OFFENSE, not defense. They could have rung 60 on us if they really wanted.

 

That's the thing, the RGIII detractors can't even acknowledge the basic nature of the games they're talking about, because they're so locked into this garbage time meme.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Robert doesn't have good pocket awareness and rarely slides in the pocket to buy himself and his o-line more time.  That was the main thing he needed to work on in the offseason but had to rehab instead.

 

For THIS season, he's going to have to run more than he wants to...  If he wants to have success.  Teams are going to take Alfred away until Robert does something to alleviate the pressure on him. 

 

And people are fooling themselves if they don't correlate our offensive "production" to the opposing team protecting their 20+ point lead.  Why would anyone in their right mind continue to blitz and leave people in single coverage for Robert to exploit it and get back into the game quickly?  Seriously, use ur heads people. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Riverboat,

Like I said. Even if Morgan makes that catch he probably doesn't outmuscle Matthews and get a first down. Kicker still misses the kick.

 

We will never know, but Morgan would have easily made the first down.  He was spinning to the outside, away from the tackler and only need about 1 more step to have the ball over the line.  No matter now.  We need all our WRs make the tough catches.

 

Could it be that Robert, as he gets the rust off, has less touch on the ball?  Is everything a "fast" ball? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The uninformed here crack me Up!!! Some of you need to realize that RG3 does not want to run the RO! The story will come out and is already starting to leak out over the past weak that RG3 told the Shanny's he does not want to run the RO .. now he has to get better at pocket passing .. with a interior line that cant block anyone... May god have mercy on them vs Fairley and Suh this week... No threat of Run or RO = a Offense that cant move the ball unless its the second half and the other team goes into to cruise control up by 26.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you are misunderstanfing me... I am not saying Robert doesnt need to play better. I am saying patience is a virtue and there is no phase of the game that we are good at right now. Robert needs time. Pull him and cousins will get killed behind the o-line. we will damage both QBs trade value and split the fanbase and the locker room. Robert has earned a the benefit of the doubt and no part of our game is good enough to win playoff games at this point anyhow.

Gotcha.  I also don't think we should pull Robert.  He is our starter and will hopefully remain that way for a very long time.  He has certainly earned his spot as the starter.  We are all forgetting he is coming off MAJOR knee surgery here.  So I agree with you. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And people are fooling themselves if they don't correlate our offensive "production" to the opposing team protecting their 20+ point lead.  Why would anyone in their right mind continue to blitz and leave people in single coverage for Robert to exploit it and get back into the game quickly?  Seriously, use ur heads people. 

 

More drivel from people who don't watch tape. Neither the Eagles or Packers stopped blitzing. The Eagles DC even specifically said that he continued being aggressive with a lead.

 

In the minds of overdramatic Skins fans, every opposing DC is Greg Blache.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The uninformed here crack me Up!!! Some of you need to realize that RG3 does not want to run the RO! The story will come out and is already starting to leak out over the past weak that RG3 told the Shanny's he does not want to run the RO .. now he has to get better at pocket passing .. with a interior line that cant block anyone... May god have mercy on them vs Fairley and Suh this week... No threat of Run or RO = a Offense that cant move the ball unless its the second half and the other team goes into to cruise control up by 26.....

Robert doesn't want to run the RO, I understand that.  But Robert must also realize that the RO masks the deficiencies in his game and without it, he's being exposed. 

More drivel from people who don't watch tape. Neither the Eagles or Packers stopped blitzing. The Eagles DC even specifically said that he continued being aggressive with a lead.

 

In the minds of overdramatic Skins fans, every opposing DC is Greg Blache.

LOL and you have access to tape?  LOLOLOL  I rewatch the games aka "tape" on my tablet too.  LMFAO  Tape...  Like you're a coach.  hahaha.  And I'm sure the guy that named himself after Robert isn't biased at all. LOL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Robert doesn't want to run the RO, I understand that.  But Robert must also realize that the RO masks the deficiencies in his game and without it, he's being exposed. 

 

Oh I agree with you 100%.... I just think its funny that everyone is blaming Kyle.. yes he deserves some of it but If the QB doesn't want to run the RO.. what do you do??? ... RG3's game is dual threat... hell right now hes just sitting there in the pocket.. taking brutal hits.. needs to just say F$#@ it and run one off for 35 yards and start scaring D-coordinators.. Maybe this week he will realize this single threat isnt working and start showing flashes of his old self. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

More drivel from people who don't watch tape. Neither the Eagles or Packers stopped blitzing. The Eagles DC even specifically said that he continued being aggressive with a lead.

 

In the minds of overdramatic Skins fans, every opposing DC is Greg Blache.

Beats the heck out of Igglephans... That is for sure. They are so bi-polar they make a preganant mother of young triplets whose water just broke look even tempered.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...